10 réponses à ce sujet

[sporeian]

It seems a reoccuring theme throughout he 3 games are tragic heros and events. However, it doesn't really work on the written level as a tragedy.

[Grumpy Midget]

Yes, a tragedy of ruined potential and disillusioned fans.

Modifié par Grumpy Midget, 10 mars 2012 - 11:53 .

[Phydeaux314]

Hmmm. It depends on your perspective.

On a broader scale, no, it wasn't. The reapers are stopped in all three endings, in fact, you can't possibly fail to stop them. Earth might end up destroyed in the worst outcome, but the reapers aren't going to kill or harvest anyone else. You've stopped a cycle of destruction that dates back several million years, saved billions if not trillions of lives, and depending on the ending you've taken steps to ensure that it won't happen again.

On a personal scale, it absolutely was. No matter what you do, Shepard ends up stranded and is usually dead. All the people you've come to care about throughout the course of the game are stuck somewhere far away. Much of the work you've done in the course of the game amounts to nothing in the end, and you can actively undo a bunch of that work depending on your choices.

*sigh*

The world today is a fairly bleak place. There's a lot of war, suffering, strife, and hatred. Our choice of entertainment often reflects our world - in bleak times, we prefer happier tales, with simpler endings, as a kind of way to remind ourselves that there is hope that things will turn out well in the end. When things are going well, we're more comfortable examining the imperfect nature of the world, and imagining the tragedies and difficulties that would face someone.

I don't think many of us wanted a nice, book-ended close to the cycle. We really wanted to believe that somehow, somewhere, through maybe just a little bit more effort, we might finally come to have the happy ending. That, even if our own lives are messed up, downtrodden things that our hero, who we have put heart and soul into for the past five years and countless hours, could maybe come out to see a happier end. To give us, the players, just a little bit of hope that maybe everything could turn out okay in the end.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I have something in my eye.

[John Locke N7]

if mass effects a tragety so is starwars.....

the first 1 2 and 3 cant touch 4 5 and 6.

[Phydeaux314]

There's a difference between "tragedy of incompetent directing, design, and writing" and "tragedy, the form of drama."

Star Wars 1/2/3 were the former. The question is whether Mass Effect 3 qualifies as the latter.

[Grumpy Midget]

Phydeaux314 wrote...

There's a difference between "tragedy of incompetent directing, design, and writing" and "tragedy, the form of drama."

Star Wars 1/2/3 were the former. The question is whether Mass Effect 3 qualifies as the latter.

Yes in the sense that a "bad ending" is unavoidable.  But does that mean it's well written?  I don't think so.  For that you would require heavy foreshadowing of the inevitable doom throughout the series.  Whereas the message throughout the series up to the end of ME3 was of overcoming impossible odds.

Modifié par Grumpy Midget, 11 mars 2012 - 12:26 .

[goatman42]

Grumpy Midget wrote...

Phydeaux314 wrote...

There's a difference between "tragedy of incompetent directing, design, and writing" and "tragedy, the form of drama."

Star Wars 1/2/3 were the former. The question is whether Mass Effect 3 qualifies as the latter.

Yes in the sense that a "bad ending" is unavoidable.  But does that mean it's well written?  I don't think so.  For that you would require heavy foreshadowing of the inevitable doom throughout the series.  Whereas the message throughout the series up to the end of ME3 was of overcoming impossible odds.

Yes. In most tragedies the audience knows its a tragedy and the story is filled with underlying ideas and messages and point to it not ending well. At no point in Othello do you ever think everything is going to turn out ok. Mass Effect does not do this. Sure it presents the idea that is could end badly but there is also consistent hope and the feeling that everything can end well.

[silentfall]

A true tragedy spans the entirety of the work, not just the ending. Assuming you did everything "right" for the best ending possible, right up until Hackett tells you that the Crucible isn't firing, everything in the series pointed towards a traditional happy ending, which makes the downer ending feel rather tacked on. Compare this to an actual tragedy, such as Macbeth, where you see the slow descent of Macbeth and his wife into madness, culminating in Macbeth's famous speech right after his wife's death. The tragic ending closes off by defeating the already broken Macbeth.

The ending of ME3 as it stands - it'd be like if, instead of Macbeth's gradual descent after his murder of Duncan, he became king through epic battles where he emerged victorious, then suddenly died right as he was getting crowned and his wife went mad for no apparent reason.

[GBGriffin]

I think that, towards the end, they shifted directions and tried to force it into being one. Tacking on a "tragic" ending doesn't make the entire game or series a true tragedy on the literary level. Combine with changing the writers throughout the series, and I think one artistic vision got mixed up with another.

Modifié par GBGriffin, 11 mars 2012 - 12:55 .

[HKR148]

Tragedy of great video-game not being served with full 100% justice.

[SolidisusSnake1]

If you mean by Tragedy as in a drama, then no Hamlet is a tragedy as everyone dies but it is widely considered one of the greatest pieces of English literature ever written.

If you mean Tragedy as in the game had so much potential which was totally wasted in a nonsensical, horrible ending, that goes against everything Mass Effect. Then yes it is a "Tragedy".

Modifié par SolidisusSnake1, 11 mars 2012 - 01:03 .