83 réponses à ce sujet

[Mike Vas Normandy]

 Let me start by saying that after my first play through, I was just as mad as everyone else about the way the game and the franchise was closed out. I was so angry I wanted to throw my game in the trash.

Then, after a few hours, I forced myself to start a second playthrough. When I got to the end, I chose the Synthesis ending which was kind of cute, but this time I got it. 

Now, let me also say that I expected Shepard to die in the end. The belief that the entire saga would close with a happy ending (Shepard destroying the reapers, the Mass Relays staying in tact and everything going back to the way it was before the Reaper arrival) was a long shot, and HONESTLY do people really believe that would have been a great ending? The further and further I got in the game, the more I resigned myself to the fact that Shepard was going to die, it was the only thing that made sense.

To be fair, how many times did Shepard say that every single person had to be willitng to DIE to save the galaxy, if that wasn't a clue that things wouldn't end well for him, i don't know what was. The fact that he got to die on his own terms did, however, take some of the sting out of it. 

Then I got to the Stargazer portion of the ending and everything was made right. 

The thing I think a lot of people are missing, is the fact that the Stargazer segment actually opens the door to the future. The shild asks his grandfather (I'm assuming that's who that was) to tell him another story about the Shepard, and the grandfather says "OK," which opens the door for a post-reaper story where they somehow revive Shepard (especially for those who chose to kill all synthetic life and got the scene where Shepar is still alive.) I have no idea where they would go with it, that's why I'm not one of the writers, but in the end that door IS still open.

In the end, after my second playthrough (when I KNEW that was how things were going to end) I think it was the perfect way to end the series. Sure, it isn't the perfect happy ending we had all hoped for, but I think that's what makes it so awesome. Life doesn't always have a happy ending, or sometimes what is a happy ending for some is a disaster for others. A perfect happy ending would have been cheap, and I applaud BioWare for what they did. 

[hippanda]

Another story = DLC

[sporeian]

fricken hipster...

[Evil_medved]

If my grandpa finished his story like this, i'd prolly stabbed him

[Karrie788]

I see your point. But again. Nobody is asking for a happy ending. I admit I wanted one, but if I can't have it, so be it. If the ending is good I can swallow it. But it wasn't.

We want an ending in which our choices actually matter and which does not contain more plot holes itself than the rest of the game.

Modifié par Karrie788, 11 mars 2012 - 12:09 .

[KainrycKarr]

Y'know, except for the all the massive plotholes.

Normandy is off by itself for....some reason.

Sovereign had to open the citadel even though the citadel was...controlling the reapers, apparantly.

You see Liara instead of your LI in the flashback.

No epilogue of what happened to the various races and companions.

Oh, and those two squadmates you took with you to the final fight? Yea, they spacemagicked their way back onto the Normandy. Without you. Just so they could get stranded.

[Darkov]

The thing I think a lot of people are missing, is the fact that the Stargazer segment actually opens the door to the future. The shild asks his grandfather (I'm assuming that's who that was) to tell him another story about the Shepard, and the grandfather says "OK," which opens the door for a post-reaper story where they somehow revive Shepard (especially for those who chose to kill all synthetic life and got the scene where Shepar is still alive.) I have no idea where they would go with it, that's why I'm not one of the writers, but in the end that door IS still open.

With no Mass Relays this can't happen, there can be no post-Reaper anything.

[Kloborgg711]

Actually, the a-hole grandpa scene was more like salt on the wound. Oh, great, I'm remembered as a vague children's fairy tale with all of the details lost, in a society that can't even travel through space anymore. Really cool.

[Mike Vas Normandy]

You see Liara instead of your LI in the flashback.

Really? Ashley was my LI in 1 and 3 and she was the one I saw in the end. 

[Tartilus]

I watched an interview just the other day - one I hope someone else is familiar with, because I'll be damned if I recall where it was - wherein one of the writers was specifically asked whether future DLC would take place before, during, or after the game. His response was that none of it would take place after, because "this is it, it's over." That single sentence, and the emphatic fashion in which he said it, upsets me almost as much as the endings.

That being said, I don't think the opportunity for some future highly contrived fashion in which to resurrect Shepherd, or even the general tone of the endings, is relevant the problem. The problem is the lack of closure. Which, for instance, of your squadmates from ME2 died during the fight on Earth? Hell, which of your squadmates from ME3 died, given the apparent bug which teleports them to the Normandy regardless of whether you'd previously trampled over their corpse? What information, if any, have we been provided about the future of this universe in which we've become invested? An ending comprises a Climax, Falling Action, and a Conclusion. ME3 poops out after the climax; rolls over and falls asleep like my Ex's mailman. It's totally unacceptable.

[ChaosMarky]

It would have been great to have an additional ending scene (after the cutscenes) similar to dragon age origins: a group of text written endings that tells us what happens to the rest of the galaxy after!

The ending CGs and cutscenes were great but.... If ME3 is going to be the last of the series then we need a proper closure. No need for fancy CGs or whatnot, just a couple of text written endings that tells us what happens to the rest of the galaxy after the war. I think having this would be enough to grant us closure. It would be nice to know what happens to the quarians and geth after all our decisions. Or what happens to the krogans and their "new empire" after being free of the genophage (or their extiction). Heck, i wanna know what happens to my squadmates after my "sacrifice"!

Please conisder Devs. I wouldn't demand you guys to re-create an entirely new CG ending to a game. But making a DLC that enables this DAO text-ending feature should be easier AND enough for most of us.

Also, I think the normandy crash scene in the end is [indeed] confusing and posts too many "what-if" questions that mitigates the impact of a "closure".

Modifié par ChaosMarky, 11 mars 2012 - 12:18 .

[vasametropolis]

Just need to say to everyone... it's not like the ending was at all surprising once you had a minute to drink it in. It's pretty grim and fit fantastically well as an absolute closure for the series, apart from the normandy running away for seemingly no reason. Crash landing was totally fine for me, but how they got in that situation was... unexplained.

If you want to make an argument against the ending, your argument should be that there should have been completely different endings to complement it. The ending as it stands is a perfectly good one in that context. It should perhaps have been the dark ending, with another one completely possible (like everyone living). Only one would be canon, but I really believe that's all that would be needed to remedy this issue.

I for one completely liked the ending they chose, but perhaps at least giving people the option to strive for something better would have been all it needed, and it would certainly aid in the motivation to replay the game.

Honestly ask yourself, if this wasn't the only ending to the game, you'd think it was cool ending version and wouldn't give a damn. If this was a movie, people would have probably liked the ending overall and we wouldn't be seeing this backlash. It's only because it's a game based on choice that you see all the backlash. It is a great ending to the series, but potentially a ****** poor one for your character.

I prefer a good end to the series, which is why I love it for the most part.

Modifié par xCaptainAmazing, 11 mars 2012 - 12:20 .

[BHynes92]

Evil_medved wrote...

If my grandpa finished his story like this, i'd prolly stabbed him

Bahahahaha I actually laughed out loud. Good job sir and/or madam.

[Kloborgg711]

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

Just need to say to everyone... it's not like the ending was at all surprising once you had a minute to drink it in. It's pretty grim and fit fantastically well as an absolute closure for the series, apart from the normandy running away for seemingly no reason. Crash landing was totally fine for me, but how they got in that situation was... unexplained.

If you want to make an argument against the ending, your argument should be that there should have been completely different endings to complement it. The ending as it stands is a perfectly good one in that context. It should perhaps have been the dark ending, with another one completely possible (like everyone living). Only one would be canon, but I really believe that's all that would be needed to remedy this issue.

I for one completely liked the ending they chose, but perhaps at least giving people the option to strive for something better would have been all it needed, and it would certainly aid in the motivation to replay the game.

Honestly ask yourself, if this wasn't the only ending to the game, you'd think it was cool and wouldn't give a damn. If this was a movie, people would have probably liked the ending overall and we wouldn't be seeing this backlash. It's only because you were expecting to be able win the impossible war and that you currently can't that most are upset.

What are you talking about? I keep hearing about how we should've seen this coming, about how obvious it was that we would lose... did you guys even pay attention during the game? The whole plot revolves around Shepard inspiring hope for the future. It involves Shepard promising his squadmates that he'll make it through. No, they didn't prepare us for this. They never told us it would be IMPOSSIBLE to win. Incredibly difficult or unlikely? Of course! So is EVERYTHING Shepard does! That's what makes it so awesome when he succeeds! The reason the ending hurts so much is BECAUSE the game establishes a perfect backdrop for victory.. and then forgets about you or anything you've done.

Modifié par Kloborgg711, 11 mars 2012 - 12:21 .

[BHynes92]

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

You see Liara instead of your LI in the flashback.

Really? Ashley was my LI in 1 and 3 and she was the one I saw in the end. 

I've heard multiple things... I got Joker, Anderson, and Liara in the blak/white flashback as Shepard threw himself into the Catalyst (synthesis), and then at the Jungle Planet I got Joker and EDI stepping out of the ship, followed by Tali (my LI in 2 and 3)

[Mike Vas Normandy]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

Just need to say to everyone... it's not like the ending was at all surprising once you had a minute to drink it in. It's pretty grim and fit fantastically well as an absolute closure for the series, apart from the normandy running away for seemingly no reason. Crash landing was totally fine for me, but how they got in that situation was... unexplained.

If you want to make an argument against the ending, your argument should be that there should have been completely different endings to complement it. The ending as it stands is a perfectly good one in that context. It should perhaps have been the dark ending, with another one completely possible (like everyone living). Only one would be canon, but I really believe that's all that would be needed to remedy this issue.

I for one completely liked the ending they chose, but perhaps at least giving people the option to strive for something better would have been all it needed, and it would certainly aid in the motivation to replay the game.

Honestly ask yourself, if this wasn't the only ending to the game, you'd think it was cool and wouldn't give a damn. If this was a movie, people would have probably liked the ending overall and we wouldn't be seeing this backlash. It's only because you were expecting to be able win the impossible war and that you currently can't that most are upset.

What are you talking about? I keep hearing about how we should've seen this coming, about how obvious it was that we would lose... did you guys even pay attention during the game? The whole plot revolves around Shepard inspiring hope for the future. It involves Shepard promising his squadmates that he'll make it through. No, they didn't prepare us for this. They never told us it would be IMPOSSIBLE to win. Incredibly difficult or unlikely? Of course! So is EVERYTHING Shepard does! That's what makes it so awesome when he succeeds! The reason the ending hurts so much is BECAUSE the game establishes a perfect backdrop for victory.. and then forgets about you or anything you've done.

What part of the ending do you consider a loss? Sure Shepard dies, but the Reaper threat is eradicated, which was the point of the whole story. That's a victory.

[AlexXIV]

The problem people have with the ending is not Shepard's death. Or anyone's death. At least not of all people who complain about the ending. There is a common misconception that people who disliked the ending all wanted a happier ending. I wanted a half-intelligent ending. A proper Sci-Fi ending at that. But the ending is stupid as in lack of intelligence, logic, common sense. It breaks with lore and makes everything we learned before pointless. It is in essence the same as 'Reapers win'. Because there is no assurance that the cycles don't start again. It can always happen again, no matter what ending. Or is there one half-intelligent ending that could prevent that? I would like to know which and why. A braindead wrote the ending, that's the problem.

The solution is inacceptable because whatever happens there will always be war and there will always be someone threating to destroy the known world. It can't be avoided by killing or merging people. It is the nature of the universe, of life. The only way to make peace forever is to kill everything that could at some point evolve to sentient life.

The ending makes no sense, in no possible way. I tried to approach it from many angles. But no matter how you turn it, no matter how you look at it, it is always the same. It is some stupid BS that makes no sense. And I always wondered why there was so much cheesy dialogue from Shepard and now we know, because the ME universe is made of cheese.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 11 mars 2012 - 12:29 .

[Makatak]

It couldn't have been the original ending as intended. Cerberus in ME1 was a bunch of faceless grunts. They were a side-story slideshow in the midst of a horde of greater entities. Then Drew got moved over to Star Wars and left the gaming scene entirely and suddenly Cerberus fields forces comparable with the Alliance's First, Third, Fifth, and Sixth fleets, and does so somehow in secret?

The phrase "Space Magic" came around to describe in two words what essentially means "lack of continuity" or retcon. Clearly, the direction of the series changed from the release of Mass Effect 1 and the planning phases of Mass Effect 3, and according to some leaked sources, the original ending was supposed to deal more with Dark Energy. The final choice was supposed to be to either save humanity from the Reapers and hope that the allied forces of the galaxy could find a way to stop the spread of dark energy (unlikely, but hopeful, and humanity survives), or sacrifice humanity to the Reapers, who intended to use specifically humanity because of their genetic variety as the key to slowing, or stopping, the spread of dark energy (humanity dies, galaxy saved!). This explains a few of the things in 2: Haestrom's star going nova early, why Collectors were specifically targeting humans, so on so forth. I would've enjoyed that much more than the juvenile vain fantasy the writers and directing team conjured up so they could try to have their "dark sci-fi" ending.

[graciegrace]

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

What part of the ending do you consider a loss? Sure Shepard dies, but the Reaper threat is eradicated, which was the point of the whole story. That's a victory.

The relays being destroyed is a victory for you?  Countless people are dead from super nova or completely stranded in systems that may be alien to their own.  The Normandy has crash landed on some remote planet and the crew ho didn't die on impact will likely starve to death.

[Terminus Echoes]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Y'know, except for the all the massive plotholes.

Normandy is off by itself for....some reason.

Sovereign had to open the citadel even though the citadel was...controlling the reapers, apparantly.

You see Liara instead of your LI in the flashback.

No epilogue of what happened to the various races and companions.

Oh, and those two squadmates you took with you to the final fight? Yea, they spacemagicked their way back onto the Normandy. Without you. Just so they could get stranded.

This.

[Mike Vas Normandy]

Well, I WILL admit that to love the ending, I had to force myself to ignore the plotholes and continuity errors. Those were a huge problem, and I was not happy about them at all (Seriously, NO ONE questioned the magic transportation of your teammates to the Normandy in development? No a SINGLE person thought that was weird) That being said, I didn't want to be angry at a video game, and I REALLY didn't want to hate what has been my all time favorite video game series ever. I forced myself to ignore the glaring faults and accept the ending as it was, the little bit of closure I DID receive from the game. I'm not a fanboy, I'm not a BioWare nut-rider (and I'm not a hipster) I'm just someone who really wanted to love this game, and insists on looking at the bright side. Some things DID go right. Not many, but at least some did.

[AlexXIV]

graciegrace wrote...

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

What part of the ending do you consider a loss? Sure Shepard dies, but the Reaper threat is eradicated, which was the point of the whole story. That's a victory.

The relays being destroyed is a victory for you?  Countless people are dead from super nova or completely stranded in systems that may be alien to their own.  The Normandy has crash landed on some remote planet and the crew ho didn't die on impact will likely starve to death.

No the worst is logic. The catalyst wanted to end the cycle in which organics create machines and machines destroy organics. But it didn't happen. Even if the catalyst destroys all synthetics, there are still ressources on every planet which can at some point be used to build new machines and everything starts new. Even if cyborgs could recreate and 'birth' new cyborgs, which is impossible, but let's say for a moment in ME it is possble, then they could still create machines one day and again have war. I don't know the 'control reapers' ending because I play paragon but probably the resolution is even worse. It just goes from bad to worse and everything does in essence do one thing. It destroys the franchise. For me anyway and probably for many more.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 11 mars 2012 - 12:37 .

[Terminus Echoes]

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

Just need to say to everyone... it's not like the ending was at all surprising once you had a minute to drink it in. It's pretty grim and fit fantastically well as an absolute closure for the series, apart from the normandy running away for seemingly no reason. Crash landing was totally fine for me, but how they got in that situation was... unexplained.

If you want to make an argument against the ending, your argument should be that there should have been completely different endings to complement it. The ending as it stands is a perfectly good one in that context. It should perhaps have been the dark ending, with another one completely possible (like everyone living). Only one would be canon, but I really believe that's all that would be needed to remedy this issue.

I for one completely liked the ending they chose, but perhaps at least giving people the option to strive for something better would have been all it needed, and it would certainly aid in the motivation to replay the game.

Honestly ask yourself, if this wasn't the only ending to the game, you'd think it was cool and wouldn't give a damn. If this was a movie, people would have probably liked the ending overall and we wouldn't be seeing this backlash. It's only because you were expecting to be able win the impossible war and that you currently can't that most are upset.

What are you talking about? I keep hearing about how we should've seen this coming, about how obvious it was that we would lose... did you guys even pay attention during the game? The whole plot revolves around Shepard inspiring hope for the future. It involves Shepard promising his squadmates that he'll make it through. No, they didn't prepare us for this. They never told us it would be IMPOSSIBLE to win. Incredibly difficult or unlikely? Of course! So is EVERYTHING Shepard does! That's what makes it so awesome when he succeeds! The reason the ending hurts so much is BECAUSE the game establishes a perfect backdrop for victory.. and then forgets about you or anything you've done.

What part of the ending do you consider a loss? Sure Shepard dies, but the Reaper threat is eradicated, which was the point of the whole story. That's a victory.

The entire series was founded upon its characters and universe, and how we all grew attached to it.

The ending effectively wipes all of that away.

[Kloborgg711]

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

Just need to say to everyone... it's not like the ending was at all surprising once you had a minute to drink it in. It's pretty grim and fit fantastically well as an absolute closure for the series, apart from the normandy running away for seemingly no reason. Crash landing was totally fine for me, but how they got in that situation was... unexplained.

If you want to make an argument against the ending, your argument should be that there should have been completely different endings to complement it. The ending as it stands is a perfectly good one in that context. It should perhaps have been the dark ending, with another one completely possible (like everyone living). Only one would be canon, but I really believe that's all that would be needed to remedy this issue.

I for one completely liked the ending they chose, but perhaps at least giving people the option to strive for something better would have been all it needed, and it would certainly aid in the motivation to replay the game.

Honestly ask yourself, if this wasn't the only ending to the game, you'd think it was cool and wouldn't give a damn. If this was a movie, people would have probably liked the ending overall and we wouldn't be seeing this backlash. It's only because you were expecting to be able win the impossible war and that you currently can't that most are upset.

What are you talking about? I keep hearing about how we should've seen this coming, about how obvious it was that we would lose... did you guys even pay attention during the game? The whole plot revolves around Shepard inspiring hope for the future. It involves Shepard promising his squadmates that he'll make it through. No, they didn't prepare us for this. They never told us it would be IMPOSSIBLE to win. Incredibly difficult or unlikely? Of course! So is EVERYTHING Shepard does! That's what makes it so awesome when he succeeds! The reason the ending hurts so much is BECAUSE the game establishes a perfect backdrop for victory.. and then forgets about you or anything you've done.

What part of the ending do you consider a loss? Sure Shepard dies, but the Reaper threat is eradicated, which was the point of the whole story. That's a victory.

Are you serious right now? The largest fleet ever assembled in galactic history is now stuck in the S.O.L. system. The Quarians JUST got their planet back after a centuries-old war, and they were even fed the promise of eventually developing a proper immune system. If you went destroy, EDI is murdered, as is every single Geth you JUST gave freedom to. The galaxy is down a dark shell, thousands of years behind what it used to be. Every world is a lonely isolated heap of ashes. Thessia is now a shattered wasteland with the few Asari who aren't trapped back on Earth left to clean up. The Krogan, who finally got cured of their genophage, now have most of their men stuck to rot and die on Earth. The Turian and Quarian will probably starve due to needing dextro-based food. Basically, every single victory you won in this war leading up the end was for absolutely nothing. I'm not even talking about the fact that the Mass Relays releasing their energy is supposed to vaporize systems. Oh, and don't forget that no one even knows what happened, since no one witnessed your decision. Sure, most people on Earth will probably reason what happened, but what about the scattered groups of colonists all over the galaxy?
Also, did you ever stop to think what happened to the billions of citizens and refugees living on the Citadel? Conrad Verner and Jenna, Kelly Chambers and Aria, everyone you spend the game meeting was probably murdered, if not when the Reapers took over the citadel then when Shepard blows the whole thing up.

And all of that was just the people you really don't care that much about. What about Joker, EDI, and the crew? Oh, they're in even WORSE condition. They crashed landed on a planet in the middle of nowhere with no way off it and virtually no real supplies. Again, once rations run low Garrus and Tali will almost certainly die. Javik will never fulfull his one goal to lie in rest with his fellow Protheans. All we're left with is the creepy notion of Liara and the human crew fornicating to populate this mystery planet.. which isn't something I'm exactly excited about.

So there's, that's why I'm not up in arms about the whole "ending" thing. Is that enough?

[Mike Vas Normandy]

graciegrace wrote...

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

What part of the ending do you consider a loss? Sure Shepard dies, but the Reaper threat is eradicated, which was the point of the whole story. That's a victory.

The relays being destroyed is a victory for you?  Countless people are dead from super nova or completely stranded in systems that may be alien to their own.  The Normandy has crash landed on some remote planet and the crew ho didn't die on impact will likely starve to death.

Yes, the Mass Relays are gone, a lot of people died, and more will probably die as they are stranded in unfamiliar locations, but the Reapers are GONE!!! And some people still remain on their home planets and can start the process of rebuilding. Also, the tone of the game as the crew steps off the crashed Normandy is optimistic. They are in an unfamiliar world, yes, but it looks like a habitable location. It will not be life as usual, but it will be life. Then there is the fact that some scientists probably DID survive, and they still have ships. Do you really think they cannot rebuild the Mass Relays eventually?

Sometimes you have to realize that a victory, though gruesome and hugely different from normality is still a VICTORY.

So to answer your question: Yes, I think that is a victory.