83 réponses à ce sujet

[ChaosMarky]

I just hate that there`s no continuity to the ending. We`re pretty much in the dark as to what happens in the universe after those ``endings``..

[Kloborgg711]

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...
Yes, the Mass Relays are gone, a lot of people died, and more will probably die as they are stranded in unfamiliar locations, but the Reapers are GONE!!! And some people still remain on their home planets and can start the process of rebuilding. Also, the tone of the game as the crew steps off the crashed Normandy is optimistic. They are in an unfamiliar world, yes, but it looks like a habitable location. It will not be life as usual, but it will be life. Then there is the fact that some scientists probably DID survive, and they still have ships. Do you really think they cannot rebuild the Mass Relays eventually?

Sometimes you have to realize that a victory, though gruesome and hugely different from normality is still a VICTORY.

So to answer your question: Yes, I think that is a victory.

You keep repeating that the Reapers are "gone", but the end result is hardly better than if they won. Yes, a few people can now start rebuilding... but none of the people we became emotionally invested to. The tone of the crew stepping off is "optimistic"? No, it's BS. I don't care if the animator drew them smiling, there is absolutely nothing to be happy about here. Why the hell is my LI happy about being forever separated from me? It looks like a "habitable location" for the human crew and Liara, but no one else. And they certainly don't have anywhere near the proper numbers to successfully create a diverse population without some serious inbreeding and genetic mutation. Most scientists are stranded back at the super-secret build site for the Crucible, whereas it took centuries for the best prothean scientists (who were a much higher-evolved race than ours) to create even one single tiny Mass Relay... and that was linked to an already existing one. What now? Where would ours link to?
The fact is, to gain any sort of optimisn from the ending you really have to stretch your own imagination beyond believability, and that's already a bad thing.

[The Angry One]

You know this reminds me of Futurama.

"I sent wave after wave of my own men at the killbots until they reached their designated kill count and shut down!"

Yeah, you won. You also killed everybody, but you won.

[didymos1120]

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

Well, I WILL admit that to love the ending, I had to force myself to ignore the plotholes and continuity errors.

Yeah.  Stop right there and think about that: you shouldn't have to do that.

[Dr_Hello]

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

 Let me start by saying that after my first play through, I was just as mad as everyone else about the way the game and the franchise was closed out. I was so angry I wanted to throw my game in the trash.

Then, after a few hours, I forced myself to start a second playthrough. When I got to the end, I chose the Synthesis ending which was kind of cute, but this time I got it. 

Now, let me also say that I expected Shepard to die in the end. The belief that the entire saga would close with a happy ending (Shepard destroying the reapers, the Mass Relays staying in tact and everything going back to the way it was before the Reaper arrival) was a long shot, and HONESTLY do people really believe that would have been a great ending? The further and further I got in the game, the more I resigned myself to the fact that Shepard was going to die, it was the only thing that made sense.

To be fair, how many times did Shepard say that every single person had to be willitng to DIE to save the galaxy, if that wasn't a clue that things wouldn't end well for him, i don't know what was. The fact that he got to die on his own terms did, however, take some of the sting out of it. 

Then I got to the Stargazer portion of the ending and everything was made right. 

The thing I think a lot of people are missing, is the fact that the Stargazer segment actually opens the door to the future. The shild asks his grandfather (I'm assuming that's who that was) to tell him another story about the Shepard, and the grandfather says "OK," which opens the door for a post-reaper story where they somehow revive Shepard (especially for those who chose to kill all synthetic life and got the scene where Shepar is still alive.) I have no idea where they would go with it, that's why I'm not one of the writers, but in the end that door IS still open.

In the end, after my second playthrough (when I KNEW that was how things were going to end) I think it was the perfect way to end the series. Sure, it isn't the perfect happy ending we had all hoped for, but I think that's what makes it so awesome. Life doesn't always have a happy ending, or sometimes what is a happy ending for some is a disaster for others. A perfect happy ending would have been cheap, and I applaud BioWare for what they did. 

I hear you. I'm not always in favor of happy Disney-type endings. Great drama is often tragic. But compelling endings in general - let it be a novel, film, or game - have to be profound and inspirational at the least. I think they succeed in being profound but fail to inspire. Therefore majority of the gamers is finding little meaning in it all, which is a very bad way to end such a fantastic experience.

I commented extensively in other threads about the matter -- social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/682#9755406
If we look at other great stories which involve death of comrades or even the protagonist, it's usually for redemption and/or sacrifice, all in the name of love which results in nobility for the fallen character and inspiration in the viewers' eyes and minds. In the case of ME, it's pure sacrifice... but still, interestingly enough, it somehow fails to inspire...

...and I've been thinking a lot about why it fails to do so.
Here's my explanation for it:

Objectively speaking, ME is an interactive, character-driven and decision-making story experience, different from the more conventional story forms such as books or films. In ME, as you all know, players can customize the protagonist, make choices and 'think' they are shaping their own path, have control (which makes them engage in the story and with the characters) ... but that turned out to be UNTRUE. The players aren't in control of anything, really. All the hours spent playing, watching, making decisions, building relationships amount to nothing consequential, other than BioWare's intended endings which are bittersweet, however more on the bitter side. They don't balance out well.

And so, the players, majority of the game's audience as we are seeing, are feeling tricked... subsequently the intended nuance and profoundness of the endings are being lost as the audience is finding little meaning in it all, making them lose interest in the whole story/game. It's no surprising to see them finding no solace or inspiration in the anonymous stargazer character at the very end.

SUGGESTION TO THE BIOWARE TEAM:
Reward the players who excelled in the game or all 3 games (based on paragon points, decisions, war assets, love bond made, etc) and UNLOCK to those players a what-one-might-term perfect or happy ending whereby Shepard lying next to Normandy is badly hurt but rescued by his/her soulmate. This will be a nice departing image of Shepard, closing the chapter on that character in the ME universe for the hardcore ME gamers.

Modifié par Dr_Hello, 11 mars 2012 - 07:52 .

[ticklefist]

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

Then I got to the Stargazer portion of the ending and everything was made right. 

The thing I think a lot of people are missing, is the fact that the Stargazer segment actually opens the door to the future.

Nobody missed that. You don't have a keen awareness that the rest of us lack. And screw you for thinking other people are too stupid to notice the obvious.

[Texhnolyze101]

Good for you. i hate them

[Texhnolyze101]

didymos1120 wrote...

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

Well, I WILL admit that to love the ending, I had to force myself to ignore the plotholes and continuity errors.

Yeah.  Stop right there and think about that: you shouldn't have to do that.

Listen to didymos he knows what hes talking about.

[Mike Vas Normandy]

didymos1120 wrote...

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

Well, I WILL admit that to love the ending, I had to force myself to ignore the plotholes and continuity errors.

Yeah.  Stop right there and think about that: you shouldn't have to do that.

I shouldn't have to, I agree; but, I will anyways. In the end, it seems the only way to move on lest BioWare eventually caves and fixes everything.

[Mike Vas Normandy]

ticklefist wrote...

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

Then I got to the Stargazer portion of the ending and everything was made right. 

The thing I think a lot of people are missing, is the fact that the Stargazer segment actually opens the door to the future.

Nobody missed that. You don't have a keen awareness that the rest of us lack. And screw you for thinking other people are too stupid to notice the obvious.

Well, if you read some of the things that people have been posting (both here and in other places on the web) it is clear that some people DID miss that. 

[sgtrock]

Once you sit down and think about the ending very intensely it makes some form of sense. Some things are till sketchy about it, such as the Normandy. It opens up many new possibilities for the future of Mass Effect. Though many just want some closure, i myself want some closure with my ME2 LI jack. Closure that i didn't really get, and because of that the ending wasn't as good. Just my thoughts though really.

[Mike Vas Normandy]

sgtrock wrote...

Once you sit down and think about the ending very intensely it makes some form of sense. Some things are till sketchy about it, such as the Normandy. It opens up many new possibilities for the future of Mass Effect. Though many just want some closure, i myself want some closure with my ME2 LI jack. Closure that i didn't really get, and because of that the ending wasn't as good. Just my thoughts though really.

That's what I'm saying. It wasn't perfect, but it made sense, and I refuse to harbor so much anger over a video game, espescially one I love.

[The Angry One]

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

sgtrock wrote...

Once you sit down and think about the ending very intensely it makes some form of sense. Some things are till sketchy about it, such as the Normandy. It opens up many new possibilities for the future of Mass Effect. Though many just want some closure, i myself want some closure with my ME2 LI jack. Closure that i didn't really get, and because of that the ending wasn't as good. Just my thoughts though really.

That's what I'm saying. It wasn't perfect, but it made sense, and I refuse to harbor so much anger over a video game, espescially one I love.

How did it make sense, exactly? Shepard and Joker act completely out of character.
You basically end up being forced to side with the bad guy while Joker flees like a coward.

Oh and then there's the bit where everybody dies. Mass relay explosions. Not good.

[didymos1120]

The Angry One wrote...

Oh and then there's the bit where everybody dies. Mass relay explosions. Not good.

I get the feeling we're supposed to assume everyone doesn't die from mass relay explosions...somehow.  Of course, that just means all those fleets are stuck in the Sol system, critically low on resources, having sustained all sorts of damage and casualities, and doomed to somewhat slower deaths. Or largely futile attempts to make it back to their respective distant homes.  Except the geth.  They'd be OK, probably.

Modifié par didymos1120, 11 mars 2012 - 01:25 .

[Wattoes]

Happy and sad isnt the problem.

The sheer stupidity of what they turned the series into is a huge problem.
As are the giant plotholes.
As is nonsensical stuff like the normandy being blown out of the sky by a beam designed to control reapers, or people suddenly being turned into half synth out of nowhere.
As is the lack of satisfaction for all the decisions, effort and investment you have made to the galaxy and characters.

I mean stranded on a random planet, after the ship gets blown up from something that doesn't make sense, when its fleeing from a battle which doesn't make sense, and my crew members on the ground with me in the middle of a war are suddenly flying through the galaxy.

Does it get any worse than that?

Modifié par Wattoes, 11 mars 2012 - 01:28 .

[Dr_Hello]

Reading everyone's comments on this forum about ME3 endings, I can only think the ship is going down... most people are feeling tricked and disenchanted. That's very unfortunate to say the least.

My comments on the matter:
- social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9754564/2#9756134
- social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/682#9755406

There's even now a petition going around:
- www.change.org/petitions/mass-effect-3-ending-dlc-we-want-a-dlc-that-changes-the-last-minutes-of-the-game

Modifié par Dr_Hello, 11 mars 2012 - 01:58 .

[AtreiyaN7]

graciegrace wrote...

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

What part of the ending do you consider a loss? Sure Shepard dies, but the Reaper threat is eradicated, which was the point of the whole story. That's a victory.

The relays being destroyed is a victory for you?  Countless people are dead from super nova or completely stranded in systems that may be alien to their own.  The Normandy has crash landed on some remote planet and the crew ho didn't die on impact will likely starve to death.

Because the synthesis between organics and synthetics means an end to the cycle of destruction - witness the Quarians and Geth as examples of how wars between a creator race and its synthetic children can go. That this is put to an end once and for all, along with the end of the Reaper threat, is true victory. At last we've overcome our fears of each other (organics fearing/hating other organics, along with organics fearing friendly synthetics). Who cares if the mass relays were destroyed? The coda with the grandfather and grandson shows that we will continue on and that we can reach the stars again - this time on our own terms. The whole thing was about survival, not whether or not the mass relay network would survive for our collective convenience. Furthermore, if it's the synthesis ending, I suspect the plant/animal life would be compatible with all life forms and that the Normandy crew would, in fact, survive quite nicely.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 11 mars 2012 - 01:36 .

[gbemery]

I like the endings to a certain extent but what angers me is the fact that they again promised what they didn't deliver. They said there would be a definitive ending that would tie up all the loose ends. That sure as hell did not happen for the following reasons.

-Who the hell is the AI in the end
-What happens to the races, on their homeworlds and in Earth orbit?
-Why was the Normandy fleeing at the end? Yes there was a huge blast wave but 1 it didn't destroy any other ship and 2 no other ships were leaving.
-Why are my crew that were with me on the ground now on the Normandy and absolutely fine as I was near death just from Harbinger's beam. Why didn't they go into the beam after me?
-If you get the ending where Shepard lives in the end (or is implied) then what the hell becomes of him/her?

Now if you want to think that they will fix it with DLC then thats great I would like that too, but then you have to see the slippery slope we are starting toward. A day where you buy a game with no ending and they sell it to you later for $10. Do you really want to buy any more games from a company that treats you like that? I sure don't.

[didymos1120]

Yeah, you can get the coda with every ending, so they're all just as much a "victory" as the synthesis one.

[Mike Vas Normandy]

Because the synthesis between organics and synthetics means an end to the cycle of destruction - witness the Quarians and Geth as examples of how wars between a creator race and its synthetic children can go. That this is put to an end once and for all, along with the end of the Reaper threat, is true victory. At last we've overcome our fears of each other (organics fearing/hating other organics, along with organics fearing friendly synthetics). Who cares if the mass relays were destroyed? The coda with the grandfather and grandson shows that we will continue on and that we can reach the stars again - this time on our own terms. The whole thing was about survival, not whether or not the mass relay network would survive for our collective convenience. Furthermore, if it's the synthesis ending, I suspect the plant/animal life would be compatible with all life forms and that the Normandy crew would, in fact, survive quite nicely.

I approve this message

[phimseto]

I loved the game, though it had its issues. The problem with the endings is pretty straightforward: for two and 9/10 games, they give you star wars with a smattering of star trek. Then in the last 1/10th, they foist Hyperion, evangelion, and 2001 on you. I love Mass Effect, but the end was not the time to go esoteric.

[KainrycKarr]

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

Then I got to the Stargazer portion of the ending and everything was made right. 

The thing I think a lot of people are missing, is the fact that the Stargazer segment actually opens the door to the future.

Nobody missed that. You don't have a keen awareness that the rest of us lack. And screw you for thinking other people are too stupid to notice the obvious.

Well, if you read some of the things that people have been posting (both here and in other places on the web) it is clear that some people DID miss that. 

No, it wasn't missed. It was dismissed as cheap, lazy, vague, and poorly voiced.

[Jagdwyre]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Mike Vas Normandy wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

Just need to say to everyone... it's not like the ending was at all surprising once you had a minute to drink it in. It's pretty grim and fit fantastically well as an absolute closure for the series, apart from the normandy running away for seemingly no reason. Crash landing was totally fine for me, but how they got in that situation was... unexplained.

If you want to make an argument against the ending, your argument should be that there should have been completely different endings to complement it. The ending as it stands is a perfectly good one in that context. It should perhaps have been the dark ending, with another one completely possible (like everyone living). Only one would be canon, but I really believe that's all that would be needed to remedy this issue.

I for one completely liked the ending they chose, but perhaps at least giving people the option to strive for something better would have been all it needed, and it would certainly aid in the motivation to replay the game.

Honestly ask yourself, if this wasn't the only ending to the game, you'd think it was cool and wouldn't give a damn. If this was a movie, people would have probably liked the ending overall and we wouldn't be seeing this backlash. It's only because you were expecting to be able win the impossible war and that you currently can't that most are upset.

What are you talking about? I keep hearing about how we should've seen this coming, about how obvious it was that we would lose... did you guys even pay attention during the game? The whole plot revolves around Shepard inspiring hope for the future. It involves Shepard promising his squadmates that he'll make it through. No, they didn't prepare us for this. They never told us it would be IMPOSSIBLE to win. Incredibly difficult or unlikely? Of course! So is EVERYTHING Shepard does! That's what makes it so awesome when he succeeds! The reason the ending hurts so much is BECAUSE the game establishes a perfect backdrop for victory.. and then forgets about you or anything you've done.

What part of the ending do you consider a loss? Sure Shepard dies, but the Reaper threat is eradicated, which was the point of the whole story. That's a victory.

Are you serious right now? The largest fleet ever assembled in galactic history is now stuck in the S.O.L. system. The Quarians JUST got their planet back after a centuries-old war, and they were even fed the promise of eventually developing a proper immune system. If you went destroy, EDI is murdered, as is every single Geth you JUST gave freedom to. The galaxy is down a dark shell, thousands of years behind what it used to be. Every world is a lonely isolated heap of ashes. Thessia is now a shattered wasteland with the few Asari who aren't trapped back on Earth left to clean up. The Krogan, who finally got cured of their genophage, now have most of their men stuck to rot and die on Earth. The Turian and Quarian will probably starve due to needing dextro-based food. Basically, every single victory you won in this war leading up the end was for absolutely nothing. I'm not even talking about the fact that the Mass Relays releasing their energy is supposed to vaporize systems. Oh, and don't forget that no one even knows what happened, since no one witnessed your decision. Sure, most people on Earth will probably reason what happened, but what about the scattered groups of colonists all over the galaxy?
Also, did you ever stop to think what happened to the billions of citizens and refugees living on the Citadel? Conrad Verner and Jenna, Kelly Chambers and Aria, everyone you spend the game meeting was probably murdered, if not when the Reapers took over the citadel then when Shepard blows the whole thing up.

And all of that was just the people you really don't care that much about. What about Joker, EDI, and the crew? Oh, they're in even WORSE condition. They crashed landed on a planet in the middle of nowhere with no way off it and virtually no real supplies. Again, once rations run low Garrus and Tali will almost certainly die. Javik will never fulfull his one goal to lie in rest with his fellow Protheans. All we're left with is the creepy notion of Liara and the human crew fornicating to populate this mystery planet.. which isn't something I'm exactly excited about.

So there's, that's why I'm not up in arms about the whole "ending" thing. Is that enough?

Pretty much just nailed, bolted, and impact wrenched it.

[The Angry One]

didymos1120 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Oh and then there's the bit where everybody dies. Mass relay explosions. Not good.

I get the feeling we're supposed to assume everyone doesn't die from mass relay explosions...somehow.  Of course, that just means all those fleets are stuck in the Sol system, critically low on resources, having sustained all sorts of damage and casualities, and doomed to somewhat slower deaths. Or largely futile attempts to make it back to their respective distant homes.  Except the geth.  They'd be OK, probably.

Except in the endings where they blow up or are controlled.
Because giving the Geth their free will to kill them or take it away moments later makes sense.

And yeah that fleet. Let's assume it survives. The Sol system becomes a powder keg of disparate races angry that they will never see their homeworlds again. Low on resources, fighting over what little Sol has left.
What a brilliant future!

[Sorayai]

so why couldn't Bioware make a happy ending option? it wouldnt take away from the game at all. they should have had an ending for everyone.

I liked the idea of Shepard symbolizing hope and triumph, but to see her die at the end made me feel crushed and sad -- 3 games building up so much, getting close to the characters and having my Shepard falling in love only for ... what? just to die.

it's pretty sad. Shepard never EVER got a chance to live her herself. why not? she deserved a bit of happiness for all that she did