53 réponses à ce sujet

[ghrthtdhdfhdh]

Just a thought:  a lot of the comments about the endings revolve around the idea that the endings threw all our previous choices out the window.  And I agree, they certainly did.

But how many of the previous games' choices mattered in this game anyway?  Seems to me Bioware's hype about "wildly different conclusions" basically came down to acknowledging that the choices occurred with some brief dialogue, and then continuing with whatever was going to happen anyway.  I saw almost no substantive differences in Mass Effect 3 based on anything I'd done in the previous games, from the council to the rachni to the collector base.

Thoughts?

Modifié par ghrthtdhdfhdh, 18 février 2014 - 01:26 .

[The Angry One]

Perhaps not, and that's always been an annoyance.
But the fundamental difference is the choices within the same game DID matter.
Choices in ME1 affected ME1.
Choices in ME2 affected ME2.
Choices in ME3 don't do a damn thing. Sure, you can build up your war stockpile or whatever and get a minute difference, but the major things are the same. You have no choice. Every ending leads to galactic apocalypse. Every outcome leads to following the broken logic of a morally bankrupt and extremely moronic AI. Nothing. Matters.

[vasametropolis]

I have to take issue with the whole "our choices don't matter" thing. They do. The choices you made shaped an entire arc of three games. The games never had your choices directly impact major plot elements because it's impossible to write for and there'd be a trillion different branches, not too mention it would be ludicrous to back you into a corner for a decision you made off-hand in ME1.

Mass Effect was a series from point A to point B, where you could tailor your choices to your play style along the way to make it more personal, exciting, and emotionally gripping.

We just got to the point B and people expected their own point B. I don't know what was promised, so I want to make it clear I'm definitely not ridiculing anyone for thinking this way, but personally I never expected to have total freedom of how the third game ended. I expected them to deliver me an ending and they did. Apart from a couple of things that seemed quickly cut together, the ending was incredibly gripping and fit perfectly with the theme of the game. That's not to say something else couldn't have fit just as well, but minor annoyances aside I'm really happy with what they got. Perhaps they should have offered something alternative to appease everyone, but the ending they chose is far more gripping because it has a focus and is consistent with the rest of the game.

Modifié par xCaptainAmazing, 11 mars 2012 - 01:04 .

[Texhnolyze101]

Read my sig

[ghrthtdhdfhdh]

Hmmm, point taken. But most of the choices in ME1 and ME2 were supposed to have HUGE impacts on the third one. Hell, that's why it has a save importer.

I'm just equally annoyed at both aspects I guess.

[The Angry One]

xCaptainAmazing wrote...
We just got to THE point B and people expected THEIR point B. I don't know what was promised so I'm not ridiculing anyone for thinking this way, but I never expected to have total freedom of how the third game ended.

Was it wrong though to at least expect half as much freedom as we were given in ME2?
I don't care if I had to put in the long hours to get a better ending, it would've been worth it. They gave us nothing.

[Stalker]

I don't think ME3 has done too much wrong at that point.
The imported choices mattered as much as expected: Nothing critical, but we still got the feeling that we were our Shepard.

[Citizen Q]

The Angry One wrote...

Perhaps not, and that's always been an annoyance.
But the fundamental difference is the choices within the same game DID matter.
Choices in ME1 affected ME1.
Choices in ME2 affected ME2.
Choices in ME3 don't do a damn thing. Sure, you can build up your war stockpile or whatever and get a minute difference, but the major things are the same. You have no choice. Every ending leads to galactic apocalypse. Every outcome leads to following the broken logic of a morally bankrupt and extremely moronic AI. Nothing. Matters.

Agreed, with the stipulation that many of the choices from other games would have had a bigger impact on the ending had it not been a ridiculous dues ex machina that invalidated ALL choices leading up to it...

I.E. Why does it matter that I reconciled the turians and krogan, or cured the genophage, or brought the geth and the quarians back together, or even STOPPED THE REAPERS if the end result was the collapse of the galaxy wide civilization I was trying to save through these decisions. 

In addition, not only do we get that **** sandwich, they top it off by forcing the protagonist  to make a decision that by most counts would be completely out of character for him, all while doing the bidding of a being who should, logically, be his greatest enemy. And after that, Shepard either dies, or has no hope of EVER being reunited with those he cared about, due to said destruction of galactic civilization.

TOTAL FAIL on bioware's part.

Modifié par Citizen Q, 11 mars 2012 - 01:04 .

[BrunoBerg]

Yeah, the choices didn't matter as much as I had thought they would, but they mattered enough for me to get the feeling that I knew these characters, I have spent time with them before and they've got my back. I don't think BioWare screwed up on this point at all really, I have not enjoyed a game as much as I enjoyed Mass Effect 3 in a very very long time and I did feel like I it was my character and my story. It was just the ending that got me upset.

[ghrthtdhdfhdh]

Mr Massakka wrote...

I don't think ME3 has done too much wrong at that point.
The imported choices mattered as much as expected: Nothing critical, but we still got the feeling that we were our Shepard.

In Mass Effect 2, you are told that the rachni are breeding and rebuilding if you spared them in the first game.  If you killed them in the first game: nothing,  Because they're EXTINCT.

All I was expecting of Bioware was to follow the choices you made to their conclusion.  (Which is what they hyped.)  Instead, the rachni show up out of nowhere regardless.  So why did I get to choose what to do with them in the first one?

For the record, I love ME3 with some exceptions.  This is just a big exception.

[vasametropolis]

The Angry One wrote...

xCaptainAmazing wrote...
We just got to THE point B and people expected THEIR point B. I don't know what was promised so I'm not ridiculing anyone for thinking this way, but I never expected to have total freedom of how the third game ended.

Was it wrong though to at least expect half as much freedom as we were given in ME2?
I don't care if I had to put in the long hours to get a better ending, it would've been worth it. They gave us nothing.

I completely agree with what you are saying. It would have probably been wise to include something else that everyone was expecting. I have a feeling they didn't though because they wanted everyone to see what they considered to be the true ending. But yeah sure, they could have just made another ending impossible to get on the first playthrough or something. I just take issue with people saying "nothing mattered" and "the ending sucks." It mattered to me and the ending really didn't suck at all, I really think everyone's just saying that because they wish there was another one to strive for. If this had only been one of the endings people would have probably thought it was a pretty cool take overall, but they could realize their own super ending and be happy with that instead.

It really comes down to expectation. Nobody had a wrong expectation, it just turns out that unfortunately very few expected the same thing myself  as well as quite a few others did.

Modifié par xCaptainAmazing, 11 mars 2012 - 01:12 .

[eye basher]

The Angry One wrote...

xCaptainAmazing wrote...
We just got to THE point B and people expected THEIR point B. I don't know what was promised so I'm not ridiculing anyone for thinking this way, but I never expected to have total freedom of how the third game ended.

Was it wrong though to at least expect half as much freedom as we were given in ME2?
I don't care if I had to put in the long hours to get a better ending, it would've been worth it. They gave us nothing.

What freedom their is none in ME2 is either one end or the other dead or alive apples or oranges and i hate both.

[vasametropolis]

Honestly the games were just the illusion of choice. I had no problem with it then, and I don't now. Choice made characters matter to you and it did its job amazingly well for me.

Modifié par xCaptainAmazing, 11 mars 2012 - 01:22 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

Citizen Q wrote...

they top it off by forcing the protagonist  to make a decision that by most counts would be completely out of character for him, all while doing the bidding of a being who should, logically, be his greatest enemy.

And yet, there really isn't a choice but to make the choice at the time, is there? The collective military forces of the galaxy threw the bulk of their support behind the Crucible plan, and if it fails, the rest of the war is one, big, drawn-out and foregone conclusion.

[ghrthtdhdfhdh]

But choice was the point! They have spent the entire life of this series hyping the fact that all your choices would add up to drastically different conclusions. They created a save importer so that everything you did throughout five years of Mass Effect games would carry over to the big climax and..... make a 5 point difference in your war assets.

I mean, if you don't mind that, that's totally up to you. But I do.

[malkuth74]

Nothing you did mattered. Because the ending is the same no matter what you do.. Its just a different color.

[Citizen Q]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Citizen Q wrote...

they top it off by forcing the protagonist  to make a decision that by most counts would be completely out of character for him, all while doing the bidding of a being who should, logically, be his greatest enemy.

And yet, there really isn't a choice but to make the choice at the time, is there? The collective military forces of the galaxy threw the bulk of their support behind the Crucible plan, and if it fails, the rest of the war is one, big, drawn-out and foregone conclusion.

It is bad writing on Bioware's part. No one played all three games just to see Shep forced into one of the most sadistic and depressing choices ever, that is just one of the many places they dropped the ball.

Shep made a career out of taking the option not offered, but then Bioware just shoehorned him/her into a horrible catch22 ending.

EDIT: Not just a horribly written ending, but one where the only options cause both the destruction of galactic civilization, the thing Shep was trying to save, AND the seperation of Shep from both crew and LI, either through death or uncoverable distance due to the destruction of the relays.

So its a double downer, PLUS Shep doesnt even put up a counter-argument to the one being in the galaxy RESPOSIBLE FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF UNTOLD QUADRILLIONS OF BEINGS OVER COUNTLESS CYCLES!
This is the same entity that is BEHIND THE REAPERS, the same Reapers Shep has been fighting through three different games, and he just accepts these three horrible options as the only viable choices. No rousing speech, No looking for another way, No punching that little b4sterd right in the mouth, just gets himself killed and ends galactic civilization all based on a 2 minute speech by a little starkid.

Yea... Great Ending....

Modifié par Citizen Q, 11 mars 2012 - 01:43 .

[vasametropolis]

Citizen Q wrote...

they top it off by forcing the protagonist  to make a decision that by most counts would be completely out of character for him, all while doing the bidding of a being who should, logically, be his greatest enemy.

I find it odd when people say it's out of character for Shepard to make the decision... because it's me making the decision. Just a thought to add, they probably should have had a fourth option where you choose to forego using the Crucible altogether and let the cycle continue until a future civilization had their shot at it, see if things maybe turn out differently. This is the only other thing I wouldn't have minded seeing.

Modifié par xCaptainAmazing, 11 mars 2012 - 01:37 .

[Citizen Q]

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Citizen Q wrote...

they top it off by forcing the protagonist  to make a decision that by most counts would be completely out of character for him, all while doing the bidding of a being who should, logically, be his greatest enemy.

And yet, there really isn't a choice but to make the choice at the time, is there? The collective military forces of the galaxy threw the bulk of their support behind the Crucible plan, and if it fails, the rest of the war is one, big, drawn-out and foregone conclusion.

This is more towards Citizen Q... I find it odd when people say it's out of character for Shepard to make the decision... because it's me making the decision. Just a thought to add, they probably should have had a fourth option where you choose to forego using the Crucible altogether and let the cycle continue until a future civilization had their shot at it, see if things maybe turn out differently. This is the only other thing I wouldn't have minded seeing.

see above post for response...

[vasametropolis]

Yeah I saw it. Yeah maybe there should have been a none of the above option because I can possibly see canon Shepard picking that. Probably not my first choice, but it would've been ok.

Modifié par xCaptainAmazing, 11 mars 2012 - 01:41 .

[Citizen Q]

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

Yeah I saw it. Yeah maybe should have been a none of the above option because I can possibly see canon Shepard picking that.

Editted my post again with other options that the Shep from the non-last 10 minutes of the game would have taken.

[ghrthtdhdfhdh]

So we're back to discussing the ending lol. Am I seriously the only one who has a beef with all the previous games' choices having no impact?

[vasametropolis]

Citizen Q wrote...

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

Yeah I saw it. Yeah maybe should have been a none of the above option because I can possibly see canon Shepard picking that.

Editted my post again with other options that the Shep from the non-last 10 minutes of the game would have taken.

Yeah, so I understand. You share the same feeling that many others do and it's legitimate, but for me, the scale of what he encountered in the crucible was a power beyond comprehension and he couldn't really raise issue with anything.

Like, if you encountered a god-equivalent of the universe that controls everything to preserve universal order, would you argue or ask questions? How do you argue with an all-knowing being when you know nothing and can know nothing about why things are the way they are? You can't, so your left at the mercy of a greater being. I thought the whole starchild thing was mind blowing. It's not like anything I ever expected, and if you told me that months ago I would have thought it was straight retarded, but for some reason it worked insanely well for me.

ghrthtdhdfhdh wrote...

So we're back to discussing the ending lol. Am I seriously the only one who has a beef with all the previous games' choices having no impact?

Yes, you're right, let's try and stay on topic. You're probably not the only one, but at least for me I never expected it humanly possible to accomodate everyone, so minor variations of everything was the solution... ironically like the ending.

Modifié par xCaptainAmazing, 11 mars 2012 - 01:54 .

[vasametropolis]

-double post deleted-

Modifié par xCaptainAmazing, 11 mars 2012 - 01:52 .

[ghrthtdhdfhdh]

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

-double post deleted-

Fair enough, and to be clear I think the minor variations work very well, for the small-scale choices.  It's only the big ones that get me.

What's a DP?  lol.