43 réponses à ce sujet

[Cpl_Facehugger]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

So we know that Maferath betrayed Andraste to the Tevinters because he was jealous of a lot of things (wife was more popular than him, bride of a god, e.t.c). My question is, do you or do you not blame Maferath for doing so? Do you sympathize with him or do you think his betrayal was inexcusable?

I personally despise him for not being able to keep his emotions in check. He couldn't compete with a god, or the prophet of a god, but that was no reason for him to betray his wife the way he did. I say he should have accepted it like a man and took it on the chin.
What say the rest of you?

I dunno, your wife cheating on you at all, even with a god, is pretty hard to take. 

[Riona45]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

So we know that Maferath betrayed Andraste to the Tevinters because he was jealous of a lot of things (wife was more popular than him, bride of a god, e.t.c). My question is, do you or do you not blame Maferath for doing so? Do you sympathize with him or do you think his betrayal was inexcusable?

I personally despise him for not being able to keep his emotions in check. He couldn't compete with a god, or the prophet of a god, but that was no reason for him to betray his wife the way he did. I say he should have accepted it like a man and took it on the chin.
What say the rest of you?

It's all a fairytale.  All BS.  No more real history than "Jack and the Beanstalk."

Sure, maybe the people involved were real historical figures, but you didn't frame the question in those terms ("he couldn't compete with a god").

Modifié par Riona45, 02 décembre 2009 - 12:07 .

[SnakeStrike8]

Riona45 wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

So we know that Maferath betrayed Andraste to the Tevinters because he was jealous of a lot of things (wife was more popular than him, bride of a god, e.t.c). My question is, do you or do you not blame Maferath for doing so? Do you sympathize with him or do you think his betrayal was inexcusable?

I personally despise him for not being able to keep his emotions in check. He couldn't compete with a god, or the prophet of a god, but that was no reason for him to betray his wife the way he did. I say he should have accepted it like a man and took it on the chin.
What say the rest of you?

It's all a fairytale.  All BS.  No more real history than "Jack and the Beanstalk."

Sure, maybe the people involved were real historical figures, but you didn't frame the question in those terms ("he couldn't compete with a god").

He believed it. His wife believed it, and so did the millions who followed her. So it doesn't really matter if there was a god or not, the point is everyone seemed to think so.

[Riona45]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

He believed it. His wife believed it, and so did the millions who followed her. So it doesn't really matter if there was a god or not, the point is everyone seemed to think so.

Everyone, who?  Everyone in the story?  That's begging the question--that is, assuming the story is true in the first place.

Modifié par Riona45, 02 décembre 2009 - 12:13 .

[Taleroth]

Riona45 wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

He believed it. His wife believed it, and so did the millions who followed her. So it doesn't really matter if there was a god or not, the point is everyone seemed to think so.

Everyone, who?  Everyone in the story?  That's begging the question--that is, assuming the story is true in the first place.

Holy fuc... someone used "begging the question" correctly.

Will you marry me?

[SnakeStrike8]

Riona45 wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

He believed it. His wife believed it, and so did the millions who followed her. So it doesn't really matter if there was a god or not, the point is everyone seemed to think so.

Everyone, who?  Everyone in the story?  That's begging the question--that is, assuming the story is true in the first place.

Yes, everyone in the story. And why should the story not be true? Because A God simply cannot exist, no matter what? And He cannot have a Prophet that spreads His word to mortals?

[Riona45]

Taleroth wrote...

Holy fuc... someone used "begging the question" correctly.

Will you marry me?

LOL!

[Taleroth]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

He believed it. His wife believed it, and so did the millions who followed her. So it doesn't really matter if there was a god or not, the point is everyone seemed to think so.

Everyone, who?  Everyone in the story?  That's begging the question--that is, assuming the story is true in the first place.

Yes, everyone in the story. And why should the story not be true?

Because legends are funny.  God or no.  George Washington and the cherry true is actually fairly modern.  LIncoln could tell lies.  An apple did not fall on Newton's head.  Sherlock Holmes never said "Elementary, dear Watson" in the books, and nobody EVER uttered "beam me up, Scotty."

[Riona45]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

Yes, everyone in the story. And why should the story not be true? Because A God simply cannot exist, no matter what? And He cannot have a Prophet that spreads His word to mortals?

It's not that the story *shouldn't* be true, it's that there is no evidence that it is.  None that I've come across in the game yet, anyway.  And it is also entirely fanciful--the part about the Maker falling in love with Andraste?  Let me just say that I thought that was the silliest part of all...and also a good way to start a cult of personality, if you catch my meaning.

Modifié par Riona45, 02 décembre 2009 - 12:35 .

[SnakeStrike8]

Taleroth wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

He believed it. His wife believed it, and so did the millions who followed her. So it doesn't really matter if there was a god or not, the point is everyone seemed to think so.

Everyone, who?  Everyone in the story?  That's begging the question--that is, assuming the story is true in the first place.

Yes, everyone in the story. And why should the story not be true?

Because legends are funny.  God or no.  George Washington and the cherry true is actually fairly modern.  LIncoln could tell lies.  An apple did not fall on Newton's head.  Sherlock Holmes never said "Elementary, dear Watson" in the books, and nobody EVER uttered "beam me up, Scotty."

*Some* legends are funny. Henry the Vth really did defeat a vastly larger French army at Agincourt, A man was born during the Roman times who started a new religion, Constantine really did Christianize all of Rome (and by inference, most of Western Europe) and someone named Muhammad really did exist in Arabia and he really did start a new religion- one that inspired its followers to overrun almost all of France.

[SnakeStrike8]

Taleroth wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

He believed it. His wife believed it, and so did the millions who followed her. So it doesn't really matter if there was a god or not, the point is everyone seemed to think so.

Everyone, who?  Everyone in the story?  That's begging the question--that is, assuming the story is true in the first place.

Yes, everyone in the story. And why should the story not be true?

Because legends are funny.  God or no.  George Washington and the cherry true is actually fairly modern.  LIncoln could tell lies.  An apple did not fall on Newton's head.  Sherlock Holmes never said "Elementary, dear Watson" in the books, and nobody EVER uttered "beam me up, Scotty."

*Some* legends are funny. Henry the Vth really did defeat a vastly larger French army at Agincourt, A man was born during the Roman times who started a new religion, Constantine really did Christianize all of Rome (and by inference, most of Western Europe) and someone named Muhammad really did exist in Arabia and he really did start a new religion- one that inspired its followers to overrun almost all of France.

[SnakeStrike8]

Riona45 wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

Yes, everyone in the story. And why should the story not be true? Because A God simply cannot exist, no matter what? And He cannot have a Prophet that spreads His word to mortals?

It's not that the story *shouldn't* be true, it's that there is no evidence that it is.  None that I've come across in the game yet, anyway.  And it is also entirely fanciful--the part about the Maker falling in love with Andraste?  Let me just say that I thought that was the silliest part of all...and also a good way to start a cult of personality, if you catch my meaning.

And if the story is true? Hypothetically? What would you say? Is Maferath to blame or is he not? That was my original question...

[SnakeStrike8]

Riona45 wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

Yes, everyone in the story. And why should the story not be true? Because A God simply cannot exist, no matter what? And He cannot have a Prophet that spreads His word to mortals?

It's not that the story *shouldn't* be true, it's that there is no evidence that it is.  None that I've come across in the game yet, anyway.  And it is also entirely fanciful--the part about the Maker falling in love with Andraste?  Let me just say that I thought that was the silliest part of all...and also a good way to start a cult of personality, if you catch my meaning.

Nevermind. Ignore this; doublepost...

Modifié par SnakeStrike8, 02 décembre 2009 - 12:36 .

[Taleroth]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

*Some* legends are funny. Henry the Vth really did defeat a vastly larger French army at Agincourt, A man was born during the Roman times who started a new religion, Constantine really did Christianize all of Rome (and by inference, most of Western Europe) and someone named Muhammad really did exist in Arabia and he really did start a new religion- one that inspired its followers to overrun almost all of France.

There's a difference between the story and the specifics.

Andraste was real and lead a revolt.  It doesn't automatically mean everyone who followed her believed.

[SnakeStrike8]

Taleroth wrote...

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

*Some* legends are funny. Henry the Vth really did defeat a vastly larger French army at Agincourt, A man was born during the Roman times who started a new religion, Constantine really did Christianize all of Rome (and by inference, most of Western Europe) and someone named Muhammad really did exist in Arabia and he really did start a new religion- one that inspired its followers to overrun almost all of France.

There's a difference between the story and the specifics.

Andraste was real and lead a revolt.  It doesn't automatically mean everyone who followed her believed.

But enough did to destabilize the Tevinter Imperium, which at the time was the largest empire in the game world. That took some effort, I imagine. Either Andraste really did have the maker's support, or she was amazingly charismatic. I accept that one is as likely as the other, but the purpose of this topic is to assume the former.

[KnightofPhoenix]

According to my understanding, it was Maferath who actually commanded the army against Tevinter, while Andraste rallied supporters. In otherwords, Maferath was the military brains behind the campaign. But of course his victories are being attributed to his wife and the God cheating with his wife. I don't know about you, but I would be seriously pissed.



Here I am, commanding the troops and battle after battle defeating the empire no one thought could be defeated, so at the end of the day, people praise my wife that cheats on me with a God. I pewrhaps wouldn't have betrayed Andraste, but I would have been seriously pissed.



That's of course assuming that everything in the story is true.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

The Angry One wrote...

T1l wrote...

Who would betray their own wife?

Henry VIII wants a word with you.

Just had about him in history class. Glad i did so in time for understanding that joke

About maf, consider the one you love the most in this word has an affair. Doesent matter with whom, even a god counts. How can one survive such betrayal? Id say maf shouldve walked away from her if he really loved her. Killing her is done out of pride, not love.

[Rhys Cordelle]

History is told by the victors.



The Chantry is of course going to tell it in a way that paints Andraste in the best light possible, as a martyr for her cause. Maybe Maferath felt that Andraste was mad with power. Maybe she wanted to take actions that he felt were wrong and he did what he had to to stop her.

[SnakeStrike8]

Rhys Cordelle wrote...

History is told by the victors.

The Chantry is of course going to tell it in a way that paints Andraste in the best light possible, as a martyr for her cause. Maybe Maferath felt that Andraste was mad with power. Maybe she wanted to take actions that he felt were wrong and he did what he had to to stop her.

This is a good point. I applaud you for coming up with it!
It might even be true, or maybe someone else was responsible for the betrayal (one of her other disciples, I mean) and they pinned it on Maferath...