73 réponses à ce sujet

[menasure]

Elanareon wrote...

Yes because auto attacks are for sissy Dual Wielders... HAHAHA!

because most skills actually lower your damage in game?

[pxx]

sure, the 2h warrior sucks in the beginning but with the proper gear and the right spec they are awesome.

to the speed issue: haste+blood thirst or haste+swift salve, problem solved (but the when you oneshot white mobs or 2 shot yellow mages who cares about swing time anyway xD) i like my warrior, i spended the majority of my points in strenght, some points in dex until perfect striking, no stamina issue here (warden commander set and reju from mage - problem solved)

[Darth_Shizz]

menasure wrote...

Elanareon wrote...

Yes because auto attacks are for sissy Dual Wielders... HAHAHA!

because most skills actually lower your damage in game?

With a high enough attack speed, which is sorta the point he was making ;p

[Null]

I must be the only one, or part of a small minority, that likes 2-handed weapons the way it is.

[Krisenherd]

Krisenherd wrote...

Another thing I noticed, I can't really tell if I'm right here, but it seems to me that 2h attacks are not exactly the same speed for all races.
I played an Elven Berserker for my first playthrough and he swung his sword painfully slow, like it was way too heavy for him. Being a 2h warrior myself, I didn't use Sten at all.

Now on my second playthrough, I took Sten with me, and it seems to me that he attacks a LOT faster and more natural with big 2-handers.

I only mention this because Age of Conan (in the early days) had a similar oversight on weaponspeeds (as in animation length) betweeen races, and I sincerely hope it didn't happen here, and it's just my imagination.

Quoting myself here because it got lost on the first page.

Does someone have a similar feeling?

[menasure]

Darth_Shizz wrote...

menasure wrote...

Elanareon wrote...

Yes because auto attacks are for sissy Dual Wielders... HAHAHA!

because most skills actually lower your damage in game?

With a high enough attack speed, which is sorta the point he was making ;p

the use for attack speed is limited when you pick up a pc who turns out to have a hit rate of 58%. <_<

[Skellimancer]

Well i beat the game as a 2handed Warrior.



I hated it.



Slow, boring, lame dps and only features are knockdowns/stuns that other classes can do (better) anyway.



Playing as a Rogue and enjoying the game.

[Darth_Shizz]

menasure wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...

menasure wrote...

Elanareon wrote...

Yes because auto attacks are for sissy Dual Wielders... HAHAHA!

because most skills actually lower your damage in game?

With a high enough attack speed, which is sorta the point he was making ;p

the use for attack speed is limited when you pick up a pc who turns out to have a hit rate of 58%. <_<

Out of curiosity, how the hell did you manage a 58% hit rate. Did you purposely create your PC with cataracts, epilepsy...and possibly tourettes?

[Grovermancer]

I'm in the camp that YES:  as Strength increases, Swing Speed should also slowly increase.  (capping at a reasonable rate of course).  This would be realistic to actual 2-H heavy weapons combat.

2-H get no shield, usually can't put much into Dex (thus low Def), swing so slow that Runes/power ups mean much less, and if they miss their "one hit," they're really screwed, and on top of all that...  They apparently do LESS damage than DW!!! 

It's just ridiculous.


Oh, and my favorite play-through was with a 2-H Dwarf Zerker.  (spoiler pic)  There's something so visceral when that Chasind Maul smashes into an enemy!  (I think it's the sound)

[ComTrav]

Armor makes a big difference in ability spammability, too. Wade's Dragonbone or Warden Commanders both let me use most of my good abilities whenever they were up. And there is something to being able to practically blow up an Ogre with Mighty Blow + Critical Strike.



And I dunno how people end up with such low hit rate, I had ~85 percent at the end of my game, which is not great but not as terrible as some people say. Strings of misses do seem to happen at bad times, though.



I deep down know that DW is probably better, but this was my first character and I didn't know any better.

[Beertastic]

menasure wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...

menasure wrote...

Elanareon wrote...

Yes because auto attacks are for sissy Dual Wielders... HAHAHA!

because most skills actually lower your damage in game?

With a high enough attack speed, which is sorta the point he was making ;p

the use for attack speed is limited when you pick up a pc who turns out to have a hit rate of 58%. <_<

You do realize STR affects hit rate the same as DEX does right? You don't need to put ANY points in DEX unless you are a tank (18 to get Disengage, if you want it).

My 2H warrior that I finished the game with has 70 STR, 28 Willpower, and 18 DEX with a 91% hit rate.

[menasure]

Darth_Shizz wrote...

menasure wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...

menasure wrote...

Elanareon wrote...

Yes because auto attacks are for sissy Dual Wielders... HAHAHA!

because most skills actually lower your damage in game?

With a high enough attack speed, which is sorta the point he was making ;p

the use for attack speed is limited when you pick up a pc who turns out to have a hit rate of 58%. <_<

Out of curiosity, how the hell did you manage a 58% hit rate. Did you purposely create your PC with cataracts, epilepsy...and possibly tourettes?

nope Ohgren on autolevel and autotactics when i picked him up

[DeathTyrant]

I definitely agree with the common sentiment here. As awesome as large two handed weapons are, they are just not all that good in DAO. The slow cumbersome animations, and seemingly less powerful abilities than DW put me off.

If the damage was significantly raised in a patch, that would be something nice.

[Darth_Shizz]

menasure wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...

menasure wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...

menasure wrote...

Elanareon wrote...

Yes because auto attacks are for sissy Dual Wielders... HAHAHA!

because most skills actually lower your damage in game?

With a high enough attack speed, which is sorta the point he was making ;p

the use for attack speed is limited when you pick up a pc who turns out to have a hit rate of 58%. <_<

Out of curiosity, how the hell did you manage a 58% hit rate. Did you purposely create your PC with cataracts, epilepsy...and possibly tourettes?

nope Ohgren on autolevel and autotactics when i picked him up

Don't forget, he's drunk 90% of the time 

[menasure]

Beertastic wrote...

....

You do realize STR affects hit rate the same as DEX does right? You don't need to put ANY points in DEX unless you are a tank (18 to get Disengage, if you want it).

My 2H warrior that I finished the game with has 70 STR, 28 Willpower, and 18 DEX with a 91% hit rate.

of course i did not know that, this is the first game i encounter which treats dex about the same as strength ... flawed principle which leads to this kind of weird situations if you ask me

[SirSick]

I am also of the opinion that 2H are somewhat underpowered from both the gameplay and flavor angle, as they should have been given more moves that make sense for the style they are using instead of seeming to be the "heavier" variant of the dualwielders. Due to the massive weapon 's length and weight, warriors wielding 2 handers mainly use 2 angles of attack; vertical "killing blows" that shatter through defenses or horizontal "sweeps" capable of hitting multple targets. In these patterns, I belive some changes should be made to improve the style such as including more of these trademark moves because only having one sweep and 2 killing blows just does n't seem right.

For instance, horizontal "sweeps"  ... even the "auto attack" should be more prevelant as an AoE, (including friendly fire), because you can clearly see the sword flow around the warrior so it should hit ALL the targets within it 's range. Another clear fact is that when hitting a guy center-mass with a 40+ kg / 80+ pound  weapon and not having it do REDICULOUS amounts of damage compared to your "auto attack" just sounds unrealistic, so maybe make the moves cost more and scale up the damage to make it all more plausible.

Modifié par SirSick, 27 novembre 2009 - 02:36 .

[Grovermancer]

menasure wrote...

Beertastic wrote...

....

You do realize STR affects hit rate the same as DEX does right? You don't need to put ANY points in DEX unless you are a tank (18 to get Disengage, if you want it).

My 2H warrior that I finished the game with has 70 STR, 28 Willpower, and 18 DEX with a 91% hit rate.

of course i did not know that, this is the first game i encounter which treats dex about the same as strength ... flawed principle which leads to this kind of weird situations if you ask me

I think all the BW RPG's work this way; NWN, KOTOR...  They all use Str to determine mele Attack Ratting, and Dex to determine Ranged Attack Ratting.  (Attack Rating = chance to score hit and is separate from actual Damage)

Of course, those games also have defensive "saves," and IIR, Str determines Fortitude Saves, and Dex determines Reflex saves.

I'm betting DA has something similar, we just don't see it. (in manual or in game)

[Sirsmirkalot]

I love my 2-handed warrior. Dumped most points in str and kept my willpower up. Hitting for nearly 80 at times, hitting, not critting.

I think most people are underestimating abilities like "sunder arms" or "sunder armor". They do more than simply debuff your target, they give you a quick secondary attack for a very low cost. Combine that with indominable and pommel and my dual wield warrior looks lackluster at best.

Modifié par Sirsmirkalot, 27 novembre 2009 - 02:19 .

[Darth_Shizz]

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

I love my 2-handed warrior. Dumped most points in str and kept my willpower up. Hitting for nearly 80 at times, hitting, not critting.

I think most people are underestimating abilities like "sunder arms" or "sunder armor". They do more than simply debuff your target, they give you a quick secondary attack for a very low cost. Combine that with indominable and pommel and my dual wield warrior looks lackluster at best.

I wouldn't go that far. Chances are you built him sub-optimally. Was he your first character? I did the same...after playing through as a dw, and now a 2 hander, I feel as if I could go back and make the dual wielder a damn sight better than he was.

It's very true about the talents though. I worry people underestimate both the strength of the talents themselves, their synergy with the rest of the tree, and the technical details behind them that aren't listed in the tooltip. 

[SirSick]

After rereading the posts here, I am sure that the core problem is the build of the style in the game, as that would solve most of the problems with it. Another problem is that the game is n't very clear in listing stats we definatly need to know to play the game properly.

Like how fast a weapon would work (especially on ranged weapons like bows and crossbows), how much strength and / or dextery (preferably seperatly listed) would affect that weapon 's effectiveness, how much that weapon would benefit from buffs like runes (in case they would scale it with it 's core attack speed since the way it is now, a 2H would not get the same mileage out of a +fire rune as a dagger would ...in fact, they would get significantly less bonusses from it, regardless of the haste bonusses you would normally need to close the gap in speed)

Hope the Devs can see it from our point as I 'm trying to explain these points as detailed as I can

Modifié par SirSick, 27 novembre 2009 - 02:33 .

[Sirsmirkalot]

I wouldn't go that far. Chances are you built him sub-optimally. Was he your first character? I did the same...after playing through as a dw, and now a 2 hander, I feel as if I could go back and make the dual wielder a damn sight better than he was.

It's very true about the talents though. I worry people underestimate both the strength of the talents themselves, their synergy with the rest of the tree, and the technical details behind them that aren't listed in the tooltip.

My dual wield warrior was my second character. I was very impressed by the damage she could unload at the start, but I hated how fast she could be taken out of combat.

This while my 2-handed warrior just steamrolled through all the CC, 2 shot the biggest threat or pinned it on the floor. Saved my party's life multiple times on nightmare diffculty so far.

But I have to admit, I didn't work out my DW warrior as good as my second 2-handed warrior. She probably could pump out even more damage (which I wouldn't call dramatically higher than 2 handed damage), but the lack of "battlefield control" will still be missed.

Modifié par Sirsmirkalot, 27 novembre 2009 - 02:43 .

[thisisme8]

Mueller86 wrote...

I must be the only one, or part of a small minority, that likes 2-handed weapons the way it is.

You aren't alone.  Does anyone remember the Greatsword in Monster Hunter?  That was just as slow and even more exaggerated.  Still fun.

[Gecon]

YR_Lim wrote...

Loetek wrote...

The only thing I would ask for is:
The lower your str = the slower you swing
The higher your str = the faster you swing

Yes that would make sense, if the warrior is strong enough... the weapon would be like wielding a feather.

Which in turn would mean they need a bigger sword to be still effective.

Try hurting anyone by hitting them with a feather if you dont get the problem.

I prefer the strength requirement. It reflects quite realistically what it is like in reality.

[Darth_Shizz]

SirSick wrote...

After rereading the posts here, I am sure that the core problem is the build of the style in the game, as that would solve most of the problems with it. Another problem is that the game is n't very clear in listing stats we definatly need to know to play the game properly.

Like how fast a weapon would work (especially on ranged weapons like bows and crossbows), how much strength and / or dextery (preferably seperatly listed) would affect that weapon 's effectiveness, how much that weapon would benefit from buffs like runes (in case they would scale it with it 's core attack speed since the way it is now, a 2H would not get the same mileage out of a +fire rune as a dagger would ...in fact, they would get significantly less bonusses from it, regardless of the haste bonusses you would normally need to close the gap in speed)

Hope the Devs can see it from our point as I 'm trying to explain these points as detailed as I can

This is definitely one aspect of it. I definitely love two handers, but from experience, there seems to be far more to figure out regarding their talents than there does for a dual-wielder (mainly due to their strength of auto-attack). If we were given more information on the game mechanics, then I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be satisfied to the point they didn't continually called them "flawed". 

[Darth_Shizz]

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

I wouldn't go that far. Chances are you built him sub-optimally. Was he your first character? I did the same...after playing through as a dw, and now a 2 hander, I feel as if I could go back and make the dual wielder a damn sight better than he was.

It's very true about the talents though. I worry people underestimate both the strength of the talents themselves, their synergy with the rest of the tree, and the technical details behind them that aren't listed in the tooltip.

My dual wield warrior was my second character. I was very impressed by the damage she could unload at the start, but I hated how fast she could be taken out of combat.

This while my 2-handed warrior just steamrolled through all the CC, 2 shot the biggest threat or pinned it on the floor. Saved my party's life multiple times on nightmare diffculty so far.

But I have to admit, I didn't work out my DW warrior as good as my second 2-handed warrior. She probably could pump out even more damage but the lack of "battlefield control" will still be missed.

This is pretty much why I love 2 handers...there's nothing quite like running up to a huge group of mixed normal/elite darkspawn, tossing out a sweep, then seeing them all get knocked back whilst stunning blows stuns 2-3 of them. In fact, I've even found myself ploughing through bosses far quicker than my dual-wielder could manage thanks to indomitable and high penetration. I even managed to knock out a certain dragon fight in just under 3 minutes on nightmare (lvl 10/9 2h sten + 2h warrior + leliana + wynne), which was over twice as quick as my DW managed on hard with the same party setup and alistair instead of sten. The same goes for every other boss battle.