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[Nineteen]

 Let me preface this by saying that the idea of the endings make sense. The execution of the endings was horrible. Also note that most of this is conjecture or wishful thinking.

Let's ignore the Reapers' and the Catalyst's logic for a second, and dissect the ending.

Destroy

Okay, this is what Shepard has been fighting for this entire time. Destroy the Reapers. However, Shepard learns that in order to destroy the Reapers with the Crucible, it would wipe out all synthetic life, including the Geth, presumably EDI, and possibly himself. This is appropriately the Red, or Renegade ending, because he's taking a calculated risk by destroying all synthetic life. Results at all costs, which is what Renegade is.

Control

An alternative to Destroy, but accomplishing essentially the same thing as Destroy: the Reapers are gone. But instead of the ruthless calculated risk, Shepard opts to "save" the Reapers along with synthetic life. Very Paragon. Very blue. It might also be assumed that Shepard either "melds" with the Catalyst in order for the Reapers to obey his orders, or that he replaces the Catalyst entirely. This is a somewhat disturbing notion, because Shepard might eventually change his mind about the Cycle, and continue it by ordering the Reapers to attack the galaxy again. IIRC, the Citadel remains intact if you choose this ending, so it's possible Shepard-Catalyst survives.

Synthesis

"The final stage of evolution." Not much to say here, but if Shepard agrees with this statement, he ushers in a new age of synthetic/organic life forms. This ending fits much better with the Stargazer scene. After all, someone who changed the genetic makeup of all life in the galaxy is sure to be some kind of savior-figure in the future.

Mass Relays

I totally agree with "destroying" the relays. If you remember, Mordin says that giving a civilization technology they're not ready for is an extrememly bad idea, as seen with the Krogan. Now, the Reapers/Catalyst gave every civilization the mass relay technology, before they were ready. This leads to AI developments and the "rebellions" that the Catalyst spoke of. By destroying the mass relays, you're forcing civilization to develop them on their own. They will only get them when they are ready. Granted, the Catalyst and the Reapers made a self-fulfilling prophecy here, but that's not what this game is about. This game is about fixing the mistakes of the Reapers and Catalyst. As for the premise put forth in Arrival (that a destroyed relay would wipe out a system) I like to think that the "destruction energy" was converted into the red/blue/green energy that makes their respective changes happen. Instead of destroying everything, the energy is focused to a specific task.

Normandy

Quick rationalization: Normandy (or Cortez) picked up the survivors from the Hammer run (including squad-mates). Shepard was on the Citadel for a reasonable amount of time. Enough for a rescue mission, for sure. Ground forces distract Harbinger, and Cortez goes in for the rescue. Then, when the Citadel began exploding Joker exclaims, "EDI, get us out of here!" as he likes to do, and boom. Crash land on a wierd planet.

---

Well, there you go. My rationalization for the end of Mass Effect. Let me know what you think.

Also, I'd like to say that the ending, if anything, is enjoyable because it's making me think. It didn't hand me all the answers on a silver platter and a glass of wine. It reminds me a lot of Donnie Darko, in that respect.

[KainrycKarr]

The problem isn't that the ending is sad. It's that it's filled with plotholes and things that just plain don't make sense.

Why did Sovereign need to open the citadel if the citadel was IN CONTROL OF THE REAPERS?

Why was the Normandy way off, by itself, with the squadmates you took with you to EARTH THAT MAGICALLY TELEPORTED, by the relay?

Why did the kid NOT mention that the relay energy opens up wormholes that suck in ships and spit them out on random locations?

Why did I see Liara in my flashback instead of Tali, my LI?

Why was there no text-based epilogue detailing the consequences of my actions and the state I left the galaxy in?

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Nineteen wrote...

It reminds me a lot of Donnie Darko, in that respect.

Frank the Rabbit > annoying Catalyst kid

[didymos1120]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Why did I see Liara in my flashback instead of Tali, my LI?

I can answer this one: because those flashback clips are bink video files, and the only LIs they made ones for are Ash, Kaidan, and Liara. Apparently, Liara is the default the game falls back on.

Modifié par didymos1120, 11 mars 2012 - 01:55 .

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

didymos1120 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Why did I see Liara in my flashback instead of Tali, my LI?

I can answer this one: because those flashback clips are bink video files, and the only LIs they made ones for are Ash, Kaidan, and Liara. Apparently, Liara is the default the game falls back on.

I think he means an in-game reason.

[Tartilus]

The need for that sort of rationalization, however, is totally inappropriate for a game which is supposed to wrap up a series and provide closure. For instance I do not know:

Which characters - and this being a character-driven game, they're extremely important to me - survived. How the ubiquitous devastation the endings result in is handled by any of the various races. How the Galaxy reacts to its sudden disconnect and near-universal loss of its military. How the various other unpleasantness - the starvation and such - is or is not a factor. Whether the relays, in 'exploding' released the same sort of explosion they did in Arrival.
And about a million other questions.

I feel the need to stress again that an ending consists of a Climax, Falling Action, and a Conclusion. ME3 quits after the first one.

Modifié par Tartilus, 11 mars 2012 - 01:57 .

[didymos1120]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Why did I see Liara in my flashback instead of Tali, my LI?

I can answer this one: because those flashback clips are bink video files, and the only LIs they made ones for are Ash, Kaidan, and Liara. Apparently, Liara is the default the game falls back on.

I think he means an in-game reason.

Well, there is no in-game reason.

[Sashimi_taco]

Don't do this, don't make bioware think they did it right.

JUST LET US GET OUR ENDING!

[Archereon]

The chief problem with the ending is the fact that it comes in from left field and provides next to no closure. Of course, there's nothing that can or will be done about that, seeing as the people complaining are the vocal minority (or at least those calling for the ending to be retconned), and there's not going to be any post ending DLC in all likelyhood.

[Dynomite15]

Cortez died

[Nineteen]

This is more conjecture and wishful thinking.

KainrycKarr wrote...
Why did Sovereign need to open the citadel if the citadel was IN CONTROL OF THE REAPERS?

This one I've thought about. It could be that the Catalyst only "wakes up" when a galactic civilization is ready to end the Cycles. Ie, when the Crucible is attached to the Citadel. The Catalyst says the Reapers do what it says, but that could simply mean they execute the purpose the Catalyst set them out to do (destroy advanced organic life every 50k years), and that he doesn't control them directly.

KainrycKarr wrote... 
Why was the Normandy way off, by itself, with the squadmates you took with you to EARTH THAT MAGICALLY TELEPORTED, by the relay?

 

I addressed that one in the OP.

KainrycKarr wrote... 
Why did the kid NOT mention that the relay energy opens up wormholes that suck in ships and spit them out on random locations?

 

Huh. I didn't see it that way. I saw it as an explosion following the Normandy, either when the Normandy was in FTL travel, and the explosion was from a relay blowing up, or that the Normandy was in a relay "tunnel" and the light was the beams getting sent from relay to relay.

KainrycKarr wrote... 
Why did I see Liara in my flashback instead of Tali, my LI?

Because lazy Bioware.

KainrycKarr wrote... 
Why was there no text-based epilogue detailing the consequences of my actions and the state I left the galaxy in?

Because lazy Bioware, future games, or DLC.

Dynomite15 wrote...
Cortez died

Huh. He didn't die for me...Or at least I don't think he did. But it could have been any rescue team, really.

Modifié par Nineteen, 11 mars 2012 - 02:03 .

[Greed1914]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Why did I see Liara in my flashback instead of Tali, my LI?

I can answer this one: because those flashback clips are bink video files, and the only LIs they made ones for are Ash, Kaidan, and Liara. Apparently, Liara is the default the game falls back on.

I think he means an in-game reason.

For which, there is no answer.  The only real answer is that this is coming from the same people that thought different colored lights counted as a totally different ending.  Sure, the implications might be different, but when I'm shown nothing more than a color swap, it's hard to take it seriously.

[malkuth74]

Doesn't really make much sense to me. But everyone is different really.

[lil_89]

In case you missed it, Cortez died, so no, he could not have picked up the crew. WHY is there a need for a "rescue" of the squadmates? The ones you did not take with you are out there fighting, are they supposed to just flee to the Normandy while the rest are still fighting? And if even if they did, does not explain how the two who died while running towards the beam with Shep magically survived AND got "rescued" by the Normandy.

The reapers did not GIVE the mass relays to anyone, all the races discovered them on their own (well, maybe except from the asari, with the whole prothean beacon).

Why doesn't Shep try and reason with the Catalyst/kid/god-thing?? Who are "it" to decide the fate of the galaxy? and nonetheless the idea of order and chaos are not constant facts, who can decide what is order and what is chaos in such a matter as organic/synthetic existence?

The ending was poorly written, you can try to justify it by wishful thinking, but it all comes down to plot holes and a major letdown

[Dapper Pomegranate]

KainrycKarr wrote...
Why did I see Liara in my flashback instead of Tali, my LI?

Because Bioware apparently thinks every goddamn person who plays the game is BFFs and totally in love with Liara, and therefore does not allow players any options to express anything to the contrary. Seriously, even the renegade options talking to Liara in this one were friendly and supportive. What happened to being rude in Liara in ME1? My Shep and her are not friends. Her face would most certainly not be his final thought.

lil_89 wrote...
In case you missed it, Cortez died, so no, he could not have picked up the crew.

Cortez did not die in my playthrough. He did emerge from the Normandy at the end though, lending support to the pickup theory. *shrug*

Modifié par FrozenFire42, 11 mars 2012 - 02:09 .

[blooregard]

KainrycKarr wrote...

The problem isn't that the ending is sad. It's that it's filled with plotholes and things that just plain don't make sense.

Why did Sovereign need to open the citadel if the citadel was IN CONTROL OF THE REAPERS?

Why was the Normandy way off, by itself, with the squadmates you took with you to EARTH THAT MAGICALLY TELEPORTED, by the relay?

Why did the kid NOT mention that the relay energy opens up wormholes that suck in ships and spit them out on random locations?

Why did I see Liara in my flashback instead of Tali, my LI?

Why was there no text-based epilogue detailing the consequences of my actions and the state I left the galaxy in?

Sovereign needing to take control of the Citadel is a bit weird perhaps the catalyst has no intentions of involving itself directly and pretty much leaves the Reapers on auto-pilot.


as for why the Normandy was way out by pluto its possible between shep passing out and getting back up Hackett believed the whole thing to be lost and ordered a retreat in hopes they can stand against the Reapers without the crucible. the normandy was one of the unlucky ships to get stuck in a relay when the crucible fired if not the only ship. The only way I can explain the continued fighting on the way to the chosen ending is the fleets were still withdrawling after all there were hundreds of ships many of which aren't exactly speed demons in Sol during the battle.


I don't know why you saw Liara when your LI was Tali my only assumption is if isn't a glitch its becasue Liara has done the most for Shepard in all 3 games from translating shep's Prothean visions to helping him come back from the dead Liara has probably done more for shep then ANY other LI in the series. The only one who may compare is Miranda but without Liara Shepard would have never come back from the dead.


There was probably no text ending because they want you to think about what happens and decide for yourself. The endings would be limitlessly better if they left out the post credits scene IMO.

[AtreiyaN7]

I thought that was an interesting and well-thought out analysis that was pretty much in line with mine. I did the synthesis ending only because right now I'm a little emotionally drained after the whole experience. I would prefer to go a few days without going through crying jags while playing the game, heh.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 11 mars 2012 - 02:10 .

[Dreogan]

It's possible for an ending to "make sense" but fail to provide closure. As this was a trilogy-ending game, it isn't wrong of us to expect closure.

Dozens, maybe hundreds of threads are just left dangling after we see the asspull-island at the end. This is unacceptable for the ending of a trilogy.

[KainrycKarr]

didymos1120 wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Why did I see Liara in my flashback instead of Tali, my LI?

I can answer this one: because those flashback clips are bink video files, and the only LIs they made ones for are Ash, Kaidan, and Liara. Apparently, Liara is the default the game falls back on.

I think he means an in-game reason.

Well, there is no in-game reason.

Hence my problem. It's based off which LI in ME1 you chose. Didn't pick VS, it defaults to Liara. Makes your LI seem...irrelevant.

[KainrycKarr]

blooregard wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

The problem isn't that the ending is sad. It's that it's filled with plotholes and things that just plain don't make sense.

Why did Sovereign need to open the citadel if the citadel was IN CONTROL OF THE REAPERS?

Why was the Normandy way off, by itself, with the squadmates you took with you to EARTH THAT MAGICALLY TELEPORTED, by the relay?

Why did the kid NOT mention that the relay energy opens up wormholes that suck in ships and spit them out on random locations?

Why did I see Liara in my flashback instead of Tali, my LI?

Why was there no text-based epilogue detailing the consequences of my actions and the state I left the galaxy in?

Sovereign needing to take control of the Citadel is a bit weird perhaps the catalyst has no intentions of involving itself directly and pretty much leaves the Reapers on auto-pilot.


as for why the Normandy was way out by pluto its possible between shep passing out and getting back up Hackett believed the whole thing to be lost and ordered a retreat in hopes they can stand against the Reapers without the crucible. the normandy was one of the unlucky ships to get stuck in a relay when the crucible fired if not the only ship. The only way I can explain the continued fighting on the way to the chosen ending is the fleets were still withdrawling after all there were hundreds of ships many of which aren't exactly speed demons in Sol during the battle.


I don't know why you saw Liara when your LI was Tali my only assumption is if isn't a glitch its becasue Liara has done the most for Shepard in all 3 games from translating shep's Prothean visions to helping him come back from the dead Liara has probably done more for shep then ANY other LI in the series. The only one who may compare is Miranda but without Liara Shepard would have never come back from the dead.


There was probably no text ending because they want you to think about what happens and decide for yourself. The endings would be limitlessly better if they left out the post credits scene IMO.

The flashback is based on your ME1 LI. No ME1 LI, default to Liara. ****ing. Stupid.

And, okay, so the Normandy, out of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF SHIPS, is the ONLY one to get caught, by itself, in the wormhole? Seriously?

[Cutter10]

No, the endings don't make sense at all.  Here are some huge discrepancies and inconsistencies that were utterly ignored:

-the idea that there is some inevitable, cyclical destiny that life will create murderously rebellious synthetics is silly. The Quarians and the Geth can actually come to peace in this very story.

-while we're at it - “solving” the problem of inevitable organic/synthetic conflict by killing everyone isn't really a solution, is it?

-significant time is spent in Mass Effect demonstrating that synthetic life is still life (and, really, at some level the cellular and molecular phenomena in all of us is weirdly machine-like.) The strange insistence of separating organic/synthetic right at the end as some sort of irreconcilable set of characteristics is already nonsensical by the time it happens in the story.

-there is no such thing as “Evolutionary Destiny.” I weep that I have to explain such basic science to a team of creators that put such thought into every other small detail of the physics behind the science fiction here – but here goes. Evolution is not a process that has a start or end point. It is not anything that can be predicted, because the forces that drive it are chaotic and require constant adaptation. There is no strait line – life explodes in every direction, and the most successful lines go on. Only looking back does it seem like an intentional direction.

-”creating” a mixture of synthetic and organic life via a magical near-instant shockwave is stupefyingly silly. What exactly did this wave bring with it? Apparently it was like the Radioshack God Wave – and pressed circuit patterns into all life. What, exactly, does that accomplish? It was meaningless, pointless, arbitrary and left me dumbstruck at how utterly creatively bankrupt this story somehow ran.

[Axelstall]

didymos1120 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Why did I see Liara in my flashback instead of Tali, my LI?

I can answer this one: because those flashback clips are bink video files, and the only LIs they made ones for are Ash, Kaidan, and Liara. Apparently, Liara is the default the game falls back on.

I got that too, didn't think it was of your LI though.
That makes me a little miffed.

[Dynomite15]

In mine when you are on the roof in London and call for a rescue he flies in and gets hit by something and crashes. Later Garrus says to me "Cortez WAS a great pilot" or something along those lines.

How do you stop him from dying?

Modifié par Dynomite15, 11 mars 2012 - 02:17 .

[Nineteen]

lil_89 wrote...
The reapers did not GIVE the mass relays to anyone, all the races discovered them on their own (well, maybe except from the asari, with the whole prothean beacon).

I meant that the Reapers "gave" the relays in that they left them there for other civilizations to discover and use. Like an Easter egg hunt instead of a birthday party.

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I thought that was an interesting and well-thought out analysis that was pretty much in line with mine. I did the synthesis ending only because right now I'm a little emotionally drained after the whole experience. I would prefer to go a few days without going through crying jags while playing the game, heh.

 

Thank you!

Dreogan wrote...

It's possible for an ending to "make sense" but fail to provide closure. As this was a trilogy-ending game, it isn't wrong of us to expect closure.

Dozens, maybe hundreds of threads are just left dangling after we see the asspull-island at the end. This is unacceptable for the ending of a trilogy.

 

True. There isn't much closure, but maybe that's what Bioware was going for.

[bluewolv1970]

So Cortez rescues the crew after his shuttle crashes?