171 réponses à ce sujet

[kiera embers]

Archereon wrote...

My response is based on how this community is regarded alongside 4chan as one of the most immature, entitled, and volatile places on the Internet. I've checked on other communities, and fans seem to have resigned themselves to the endings as they are, rather than trying something absolutely crazy like asking BioWare to retcon the endings.

they did remedy that with one of their dlc's do maybe there can be one where we make anderson or javik take out place

[KainrycKarr]

Archereon wrote...

I've been seeing all this talk on these forums about how everyone's united in hatred of Mass Effect 3's endings, not just BSN, but a lot of other communities as well...

But I'm afraid that's simply not true.

All those polls and petitions that people have been holding up as evidence for this?

Even if we do not consider people voting in more than one poll, the total number of votes is less than 1% of Mass Effect's total purchasing base.

The ending will NOT be changed for our sake I'm afraid, though I wouldn't be surprised if it gets retconned or hand waved to make room for ME4; EA milks games until they're no longer profitable, and prequels really don't have much room to manuever with the endings being the way they are.

To the rest of the world, the people asking for the endings to be changed are a bunch of sad, basement dwelling, arrogant, entitled fanchildren riding on a mile high horse.

So that's it, the endings are here to stay until ME4 gets greenlit. Can we please move on to complaining about something else?

The polls, the facebook page, the twitter page, and Destructoid all say otherwise. We are not the minority. We are, quite clearly, the majority.

[Aedan276]

Archereon wrote...

Indeed, and that's why it won't be changed.

If it isn't, the DLC will flop and Bioware will have a much more serious injury to their reputation than they did when DAII came out. People care about Dragon Age, but not to the same degree as Mass Effect. 

Modifié par Aedan276, 11 mars 2012 - 02:14 .

[Lexagg]

Archereon wrote...

This is not a statistically significant forum. Hell, I'd rate this forum worse than /v/ in terms of its credibility and how representitive it is of the overall consumer base.

I'd estimate less than .05% of the acutal consumer base is represnted in these polls, considering double voting and voting on multiple polls.

Thing is, your "silent majority" is theoretical. You can never prove it actually exists. Even if the credibility of this forum can be questionable, a MORE CREDIBLE FORUM SIMPLY DOESN'T EXIST. The only evidence there is is that thousands of fans are pissed, and no evidence to the contrary.

[Goose1004]

I would say this kind of says we're in the majority. At least on this site

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

Modifié par Goose1004, 11 mars 2012 - 02:10 .

[coldlogic82]

Archereon wrote...

Gigerstreak wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

And that is what the rest of the Internet sees you as.


I don't presume to judge about anyone doing something crazy like asking for a new ending for this game, I'm just pointing out that the vast, vast, majority of the Internet seems to have accepted the endings for what they are (bad), and moved on, rather than putting up such a huge resistance to them.

Well, I'm pretty sure begging Bioware to change the ending in a different forum community wouldn't do a lot of good.  I mean, why would we go on youtube?  "I really hope the bioware devs randomly come to this forum instead of checking in their own forums which they created for the very purpose of player feedback and then make game changing decisions based off of it."  I don't think so.

[Archereon]

Lexagg wrote...

Archereon wrote...

This is not a statistically significant forum. Hell, I'd rate this forum worse than /v/ in terms of its credibility and how representitive it is of the overall consumer base.

I'd estimate less than .05% of the acutal consumer base is represnted in these polls, considering double voting and voting on multiple polls.

Thing is, your "silent majority" is theoretical. You can never prove it actually exists. Even if the credibility of this forum can be questionable, a MORE CREDIBLE FORUM SIMPLY DOESN'T EXIST. The only evidence there is is that thousands of fans are pissed, and no evidence to the contrary.

I'm not questioning that thouasnds of fans are pissed, I'm questioning whether the majority is truly calling for the ending to be changed.


^ BioWare largely abandoned BSN after Dragon Age II: The amount of hatred targeted at Laidlaw and co pretty much caused him and most of the team to just plain stop posting, and the same thing happened here. BioWare reps have also gone on record stating their disdain for this community, though in a polite and indirect manner.

Modifié par Archereon, 11 mars 2012 - 02:13 .

[FunstuffofDoom]

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps we're a bunch of people desperately seizing at any hope we can get our hands on. And yes, despite several cryptic comments that can be interpreted as pacification just as much as they can acknowledgement, there isn't anything supporting our desire beyond a single precedent and a company's history of decent customer relations.

Of course, I can't figure the percentage you're running after, stomping on the fingers of the drowning as they try to pry themselves out of the water. It's not like we're unaware of the odds. But, well, I'm a bit disappointed, and I'm hoping this can be addressed. 'Cause, well, that's kinda all I've got left on this particular issue at this particular moment. I imagine most others feel similarly.

[NoUserNameHere]

Wouldn't the vocal minority be the ones more likely to buy additional Mass Effect Lore and/or continuing DLC?

[Drake_1000]

And what ? Because we are a minority (that's not true) we have to stop to complaint and do like the majority "thx bioware for such a great ending with 3 colors full of space magic" ? NO ! And i dont care if it going to fail : Bioware dont give me a Ending DLC i don't give them my money anymore ! I've made my choice, i wait for them to do the same about that.

[Archereon]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

Wouldn't the vocal minority be the ones more likely to buy additional Mass Effect Lore and/or continuing DLC?

Yes, but said fanatical fans will, in my experience, buy almost anything that's Mass Effect, despite saying that they'll never buy DLC no matter what. It's the same phenomena of people yelling about how they're cancenling their WoW/TOR accounts, then showing up in game the next day; they make such a big deal because of attention.

Now, I do believe most people who are calling for the endings to change are sincere, but honestly, I highly doubt more than a few hundred people who would've bought DLC or future BioWare games have been lost.

Once again, it's not that we aren't entitled to complain, it's more than keeping this up is unconstructive; the ending will most likely not change due to these complaints and petitions alone. It's not hurting BioWare's bottom line, because frankly, the rest of the game is incredible, and as said above, it's really not hurting their future bottom line.

Modifié par Archereon, 11 mars 2012 - 02:17 .

[Lexagg]

Archereon wrote...

I'm not questioning that thouasnds of fans are pissed, I'm questioning whether the majority is truly calling for the ending to be changed.


^ BioWare largely abandoned BSN after Dragon Age II: The amount of hatred targeted at Laidlaw and co pretty much caused him and most of the team to just plain stop posting, and the same thing happened here. BioWare reps have also gone on record stating their disdain for this community, though in a polite and indirect manner.

I was a loyal fan of BioWare since before it was under EA, since before it was even BioWare it is today. I purchased every single BioWare product ever released, safe for MDK. They have disdain for me? Well, good luck with their "true fans" I guess.

[Aedan276]

Archereon wrote...

Lexagg wrote...

Archereon wrote...

This is not a statistically significant forum. Hell, I'd rate this forum worse than /v/ in terms of its credibility and how representitive it is of the overall consumer base.

I'd estimate less than .05% of the acutal consumer base is represnted in these polls, considering double voting and voting on multiple polls.

Thing is, your "silent majority" is theoretical. You can never prove it actually exists. Even if the credibility of this forum can be questionable, a MORE CREDIBLE FORUM SIMPLY DOESN'T EXIST. The only evidence there is is that thousands of fans are pissed, and no evidence to the contrary.

I'm not questioning that thouasnds of fans are pissed, I'm questioning whether the majority is truly calling for the ending to be changed.


^ BioWare largely abandoned BSN after Dragon Age II: The amount of hatred targeted at Laidlaw and co pretty much caused him and most of the team to just plain stop posting, and the same thing happened here. BioWare reps have also gone on record stating their disdain for this community, though in a polite and indirect manner.

Your entire argument rests on the premise that outrage is limited to this forum when in fact it has spread to many different corners of the Internet.

I also question the notion that the people of this forum are innately hostile to Bioware or its employees and representatives, since the idea that EA is responsible for any goofs held sway here until DAII and a lot of people haven't given up hope they will be listened to. 

Modifié par Aedan276, 11 mars 2012 - 02:18 .

[Salty Specula]

Shut the **** up Archereon. The way to end a series and thank consumers for repeatedly buying DLC and all three games, and for those of us (in Australia at least) who stayed up for the midnight release, walked through the pouring rain to stand the **** in line to get ME3 at release is NOT for Bioware to **** the bed and take a dump all over us with that ending.

I already want to knife some of the Bioware writers for this **** and since you're gonna come in here and dump this **** on the community, I might as well start with you.

[Scott Sion]

Gigerstreak wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

****: Mein Fuhrer, your choices actually do matter.

Hitler: How, so I can pick the ****ING color of the end screen?

That's gold.

[Fjordgnu]

I think someone needs to take a course on statistics. It's not like every player who doesn't vote in a poll is a tacit "endings are good" vote.

[Archereon]

^^^ Here we have the Internet Tough Guy in his natural environment.

Okay sorry for that, but please, no need to swear and threaten.

^ I have taken a course in statistics, and I've come to the conclusion that these Internet based polls are far too subject to external influences and personal bias (multiple voting, crossover between different polls, and the fact that the majority of consumers seem not to be up in arms, given the lack of polls with signatures in the hundreds of thousands) to be accepted as a credible source.

Modifié par Archereon, 11 mars 2012 - 02:21 .

[kbct]

Archereon wrote...

Lexagg wrote...

Archereon wrote...

This is not a statistically significant forum. Hell, I'd rate this forum worse than /v/ in terms of its credibility and how representitive it is of the overall consumer base.

I'd estimate less than .05% of the acutal consumer base is represnted in these polls, considering double voting and voting on multiple polls.

Thing is, your "silent majority" is theoretical. You can never prove it actually exists. Even if the credibility of this forum can be questionable, a MORE CREDIBLE FORUM SIMPLY DOESN'T EXIST. The only evidence there is is that thousands of fans are pissed, and no evidence to the contrary.

I'm not questioning that thouasnds of fans are pissed, I'm questioning whether the majority is truly calling for the ending to be changed.


^ BioWare largely abandoned BSN after Dragon Age II: The amount of hatred targeted at Laidlaw and co pretty much caused him and most of the team to just plain stop posting, and the same thing happened here. BioWare reps have also gone on record stating their disdain for this community, though in a polite and indirect manner.

Yes, statistically speaking, it will be very difficult for the entire population of buyers to lower the ending-dislike level below 50%.

Normally, I would agree that a forum is the vocal minority, but not during the week after release. It is much more representative then.

[OblivionDawn]

Archereon wrote...

I've been seeing all this talk on these forums about how everyone's united in hatred of Mass Effect 3's endings, not just BSN, but a lot of other communities as well...

But I'm afraid that's simply not true.

All those polls and petitions that people have been holding up as evidence for this?

Even if we do not consider people voting in more than one poll, the total number of votes is less than 1% of Mass Effect's total purchasing base.

The ending will NOT be changed for our sake I'm afraid, though I wouldn't be surprised if it gets retconned or hand waved to make room for ME4; EA milks games until they're no longer profitable, and prequels really don't have much room to manuever with the endings being the way they are.

To the rest of the world, the people asking for the endings to be changed are a bunch of sad, basement dwelling, arrogant, entitled fanchildren riding on a mile high horse.

So that's it, the endings are here to stay until ME4 gets greenlit. Can we please move on to complaining about something else?

Edit: I do believe I was a bit unclear about this thread. I meant to say that the people actually calling for the ending to be changed by DLC/patch/retcon are the vocal minority, most players have simply accepted the endings and moved on, and are unlikely to purchase DLC that changes those endings simply because it offers them better endings.

Clearly this guy is out of touch with reality.

Any semblance of research will reveal the vocal minority are those who actually like the ending. Like yourself.

And no, most of us aren't basement dwelling children, although it's sad that you have to use insults to support your flimsy logic.

Most of us enjoy the feeling that good story gives us, and Mass Effect was one of the best. However, most of us also hate the fact that we've invested a large amount of money (relative to other video games) and time into these games, and we hate seeing it go to waste with an ambiguous ending that provides no closure.

You may be ok with having thrown your money down the drain., but that's probably because you don't understand the value of it. It also doesn't make you the majority in anyway.

PS:
http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

There's a poll for you. Taken in an envrionment made mostly of Bioware fans (assuming they're fans since they have an account on the forums), it is painfully obivious that the people who actually like the current endings are a VERY small minority. Hardly worth mentioning.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 11 mars 2012 - 02:25 .

[SLPr0]

I don't believe you can go back and retcon the endings based on fan outcry. The endings are the endings, as horrible as every single one of them are, you cannot go backwards and wave a magic wand with a DLC and say "oh that didn't happen".

My problem is that the endings are, quite simply, the end of the franchise. What are they going to do for Mass Effect 4? Write a thrilling saga about being part of a race of sapient beings that are stuck within the heliosphere of their own star because there is no technology that can subvert the laws of physics which allow you to travel throughout the galaxy? Thats not a space opera thats a reality simulator.

So I do believe those calling for the endings to be retconned are the vocal minority, the majority largely has accepted that the endings aren't exactly what they'd have liked but...they are the endings, regardless.

As stated my only issue here is that we were told the franchise would continue, but this was the end of Shepard's story. You can't exactly continue "Mass Effect" when all technology that made "Mass Effect" what it was is gone. Ending the "Cycle" in whatever way you choose has proven to be more destructive than simply letting the Reapers do their thing, cause either way, the galaxy just got F'd in the A for the next 10,000 years or so.

[Aedan276]

Archereon wrote...

NoUserNameHere wrote...

Wouldn't the vocal minority be the ones more likely to buy additional Mass Effect Lore and/or continuing DLC?

Yes, but said fanatical fans will, in my experience, buy almost anything that's Mass Effect, despite saying that they'll never buy DLC no matter what. It's the same phenomena of people yelling about how they're cancenling their WoW/TOR accounts, then showing up in game the next day; they make such a big deal because of attention.

Now, I do believe most people who are calling for the endings to change are sincere, but honestly, I highly doubt more than a few hundred people who would've bought DLC or future BioWare games have been lost.

Once again, it's not that we aren't entitled to complain, it's more than keeping this up is unconstructive; the ending will most likely not change due to these complaints and petitions alone. It's not hurting BioWare's bottom line, because frankly, the rest of the game is incredible, and as said above, it's really not hurting their future bottom line.

You have miscalculated terribly. The main appeal of DLC was the hope that it would positively influence later events in narrative, give the player a "role-playing advantage" as it were. Selling any pre-ending ME3 DLC was an uphill battle, especially in light of the diminishing appeal of DLC in Dragon Age II. Trying to sell it when it doesn't affect the ending (when NOTHING you did affects the ending) is going to be quite the challenge. 
 
The ME3 ending is so sour that few fans will be able to play through ME and ME2 without feeling sick and quitting because there is nothing to work toward or look forward to. 



 

Modifié par Aedan276, 11 mars 2012 - 02:22 .

[Hexxys]

No. On any other issue, people will fight and disagree each other. Polls aren't nearly as skewed, and the forums aren't flooded with sympathizers. This is one of those rare times when almost everyone is in agreement.

We're vocal, but we're not the minority. All polls of sufficient sample size and demographic diversity indicate that we're the majority. By a long shot. In reality, it's the people claiming that the endings were adequate who are the vocal minority.

[Scott Sion]

Salty Specula wrote...


I already want to knife some of the Bioware writers for this **** and since you're gonna come in here and dump this **** on the community, I might as well start with you.

Seriously? I want the endings changed too but do you really need to say something like this? This isn't how you voice an opinion.

[United_Strafes]

Naa you pretty much dead wrong, after the hours I invested in so many characters throughout all 3 games and DLC from the beggining I'd say trolls like yourself are the minority on this one, my anger is well deserved sorry. I'm sure you can think of a more clever troll topic while you re-think your stupidity on creating this one.

[Lexagg]

Also: fans in general aren't averse to bad endings and killing off important characters. Game of Thrones would be a great proof to that.