62 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

Why is there always someone who feels the need to couch criticism/feedback in obscure forum roleplay?

You know nobody but other Lit nerds are going to read it all the way through in order to figure out what you're talking about, right?

Modifié par marshalleck, 27 novembre 2009 - 06:47 .

[adam_nox]

phordicus wrote...

generally speaking, real heroes

do not exist.  rest of post /cut

[Kaosgirl]

Koyasha wrote...
I like the idea that you're not all that uber strong and awesome, and that you're special because of who you are, and your role is to unite the land against the Blight. In a way I wish that were reinforced even more, because you still seem to walk in and solve most situations that those who should be stronger than you can't. In some ways, gathering allies doesn't even entirely make sense, because in the course of doing so, you prove your party of four stronger than their entire force.

Meh.  Even the Gods need cannon-fodder to throw around, when facing other gods with cannon-fodder of their own.   I mean sure, you could wade through the entire darkspawn horde on your own but it would be tedious ande eventually you'd wear down and fall to their numbers.

* Game mechanics (namely hp/stamina/mana regen rates) notwithstanding.

[PatT2]

Haha.. I snuck right past these guys. Disarmed every trap they laid and stole some of their equipment, and they never even knew I was there.

[Bloodseeker2009]

Loetek wrote...

DaeFaron wrote...

I think he is mad about random encounters which wipe his party?

So instead of just saying:
"Damn yo... them bandits be takin it to my ass!"
He instead tries getting all Shakespearish and makes zero sense in the mean time? Brilliant...

Can you not see how someone is taking a small piece from this rpg game and turning it into a story? If such writings such as this 'confuse' you, perhaps you should pay closer attention in English class.

[Sabin Stargem]

I enjoy stories like this. Thank you, DonkeyBarf.

[harlath]

I'm looking for people to test my "no monster level scaling" mod, perhaps it's what you are after? Link should be in my signature.

Modifié par harlath, 27 novembre 2009 - 09:24 .

[Wolfva2]

Kaosgirl wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

Of course there are people out there more powerful then you, bands of bandits included. When you get to the end of the game you'll learn you're special not necesarily because you're the baddest badass on the face of Ferelden, but because of something else. In any case, those bandits won't take on the Archdemon because there's no profit in it. Bandits not being known for altruistic motives and all that.

Altruism is not necessary.  Just a touch of foresight - if the Archdemon wins, there'll be nothing but darkspawn to prey on.

Ahhh...that explains all the burglars who stood up against despotic realms throughout history.  I still remember reading about the valiant highway men who stood up against Stalin knowing full well if they didn't then the realm wouldn't be safe for theives everywhere....

Sarcasm aside, let's not forget human nature.  Ever been at the scene of a house fire?   Or a horrible motor accident, or even a vicious assault on a woman or child?  A crowd gathers until finally one valiant man shouts out, "Why won't someone rescue those people/get the guy out of the car/stop that guy from beating that woman to death!"  Generally speaking most people, when confronted with a dire situation, sit back and expect someone else to handle it.  Heck, look at the game!  There we are, in the middle of a blight, and the ONLY people trying to end it are 2 lonely wardens and the ragtag band of misfits they collect.  Everyone else is to worried about politics and the like.

[Selvec_Darkon]

So basically the whole post can be brought down to a gripe with "Level Up" as the term used for character improvement.



If it was replaced by "Your character won't chop off his own arms anymore", then you'd be happier with it?

[phordicus]

adam_nox wrote...

phordicus wrote...

generally speaking, real heroes

do not exist.  rest of post /cut

that's all you've got?  try skipping failed troll attempts and read some history books.  you do know the word "hero" had a meaning before tolkien and role-playing games existed, right?  at least try to be clever if you want to talk smack.  /cut? 

Modifié par phordicus, 27 novembre 2009 - 12:50 .

[Emryc]

Baldur's Gate I: "At the end of the game, even after all those things, you're still a pathetic level 10 character..."

Baldur's Gate II: "At the end of the game, you're waaaaaaaay too powerful."

Baldur's Gate II - Throne of Bhaal: "Duuuude, you're so insanely powerful that it isn't fun anymore. You're even stronger than frigging Elminster!"

Knights of the Old Republic: "Man. You're insanely powerful at the end of that game. It's too easy."

Knights of the Old Republic II: "Dude! Revan is, like, supposed to be the ultimate bad ass and you're far stronger than (s)he was at the end of the game. That's bull!"

Dragon Age: "You're never completely superior to your enemies!"



Meh... Liked the way you wrote it, though!

[DonkeyBarf]

My post has to do with how the game made me feel. It's a story of EXACTLY what happened prior to my last in-game death. I'm not developing power characters, I'll do that on another playthrough, so some encounters can be very challenging when I'm taken by surprise.

Basically my points in my little story are:

1. I was halfway to my destination and on the map, still on the main road. So why did my random encounter happen in a forest? I try to rationalize why I apparently chose to venture off the main road.

2. When confronted by the bandits there was no parley at all, just some good 'ol fashioned massacring (of me). So if they dispatched me so easily then I feel confident that the game will play itself and the Bandits will turn out to be hero's

But like I said that's how the games scaling made me feel, so I turned it into a story. Some people, that are either brilliant tacticians, play mmo-setup-style, or develop a power character would not have this same experience. So largely this is a story about how scaling sapped the will of my otherwise impotent character (not me, the character) and dies in the knowledge that the world will right itself.

Again, not stirring the bees nest; nor complaining about the game. Just observation in an immersion based delivery.

Modifié par DonkeyBarf, 27 novembre 2009 - 02:42 .

[DonkeyBarf]

Koyasha wrote...

Remember that levels aren't an in-character thing...<snip>.

I have to disagree with you here.  I trained in martial arts for years and as a result have the upper hand on most people I have ever sparred with (both untrained and trained).  That being said there is always someone in your extended area who can kick your butt.  But what are the chances that you meet that 1 in 100 chance EVERY TIME to go to work?  Pretty slim.  That's where the scaling formula breaks down.  It makes it seem that the whole population is more or equally powerful than you.

Koyasha wrote...

The scaling is also really well done in that areas have a level range, so they scale up to a certain point...<snip>...As the country becomes more dangerous, only the stronger bands of bandits are able to continue operating, for example.

This game's scaling is slightly better than Oblivion and probably even Fallout 3, granted.  But older games would have areas that were powerful and areas that were less challenging.  If you wanted to challenge yourself you would go to a tougher area to beef up for fighting a boss or whatever your goal for the day is.  At the same time bandit encounters would become less frequent, but they remain pretty regular and, get stronger every time.  If they didn't though that would probably ruin the fun of the game.

Koyasha wrote...

I like the idea that you're not all that uber strong and awesome, and that you're special because of who you are, and your role is to unite the land against the Blight...<snip>.

I actually stopped reading this part because I didn't know if any spoilers are in there... probably not but I haven't finished the game yet and it sounds like you did.  The way you are writing here is very post-completion so I'll skip it for now

Modifié par DonkeyBarf, 27 novembre 2009 - 02:35 .

[DonkeyBarf]

Sabin Stargem wrote...

I enjoy stories like this. Thank you, DonkeyBarf.

You're very welcome, glad you enjoyed it

[DonkeyBarf]

Selvec_Darkon wrote...

So basically the whole post can be brought down to a gripe with "Level Up" as the term used for character improvement.

If it was replaced by "Your character won't chop off his own arms anymore", then you'd be happier with it?

Erm... no.  You may have misunderstood my story.  My aim is not to grip about character advancement.  It's an embellished comment on how I perceive the game due to scaling.  A lot of games scale - it's the new drug - but that can kill the immersion a little.  That's if you like being immersed at all, you may play the game just for a level grind and that's fine too.

[tinfish]

Haha, nice post.

I had a far more difficult time dealing with some bandits, not worthy of a cut scene or quest update, on my way into the forest, than I did in dealing with a certain shape changer.



Strange indeed!

[MGeezer]

I definitely enjoyed the opening post--at first perplexing but then you get to the excellent punchline, which features my pet peeve about the game.



However, I don't think the problem is scaling, or difficulty either. With my party and preferred difficulty level, I find the game fun and challenging on my first time through, about like the BG series for me first time through--some reloads, a few multiple reload fights, plenty to keep me alert and interested.



My problem is with what is most difficult. Dragons, major bosses, erevenants, multiple ogres, demons, all beatable though sometimes challenging. Like BG there are also a few fights where I need multiple reloads, but in BG these were high level assassins or dragons or liches. At level 15 the toughest fights I have had in the game were city thugs (though not dwarven thugs), bandits and wolves. It completely wrecks the epic quality of the game when your toughest fights are bandits and street thugs, rather than bosses and major foes.



Again this is not a difficulty issue, but an issues of what is difficult. Bandits and street thugs should not be much tougher fights than an order of assassin! By all means have ambuses which are tough fights--the BG series did--but make the foes something a bit more epic sounding.



End Rant.

[DonkeyBarf]

harlath wrote...

I'm looking for people to test my "no monster level scaling" mod, perhaps it's what you are after? Link should be in my signature.

I'll take a look at it sometime but I suppose my perfect scenario for random encounters would be:
- Some encounters (maybe 35%) are underpowered for your party.  Showing you that you indeed have gained some power.
- Some encounters (55%) are challenging for you party.  Giving you the ability to gain some experience.
- And a few encounters (10%/maybe that's too high...) are stacked against you to barely win reminding you that you are still not as badass as you think.

That would keep me guessing.  Right now every encounter is simply the same using up 60% of my power to complete.  When I travel from one place to the next I expect that I will encounter an elite unit and some cronies and that could be improved.

[DonkeyBarf]

MGeezer wrote...

<snip>...Again this is not a difficulty issue, but an issues of what is difficult...<snip>

End Rant.

Dead on!!!!  Nail on the head etc.!  I think you summed up how I ended up feeling after that battle right there.  Very well put.

[Dark83]

DonkeyBarf wrote...

Oh I expect there's something else plot driven eventually.  But since you've conquered the game and I am several hundred hours away from that, is each random encounter scaled all the time? 

Dragon Age: Origins - The Missing Manual >> Challenge Scaling

Modifié par Dark83, 27 novembre 2009 - 03:18 .

[Seeker341]

MGeezer wrote...

I definitely enjoyed the opening post--at first perplexing but then you get to the excellent punchline, which features my pet peeve about the game.

However, I don't think the problem is scaling, or difficulty either. With my party and preferred difficulty level, I find the game fun and challenging on my first time through, about like the BG series for me first time through--some reloads, a few multiple reload fights, plenty to keep me alert and interested.

My problem is with what is most difficult. Dragons, major bosses, erevenants, multiple ogres, demons, all beatable though sometimes challenging. Like BG there are also a few fights where I need multiple reloads, but in BG these were high level assassins or dragons or liches. At level 15 the toughest fights I have had in the game were city thugs (though not dwarven thugs), bandits and wolves. It completely wrecks the epic quality of the game when your toughest fights are bandits and street thugs, rather than bosses and major foes.

Again this is not a difficulty issue, but an issues of what is difficult. Bandits and street thugs should not be much tougher fights than an order of assassin! By all means have ambuses which are tough fights--the BG series did--but make the foes something a bit more epic sounding.

End Rant.

Indeed. I mean, of course there'll be special types of creatures which are supposed to be a great challenge (more or less), but thugs and common wolves? The problem with the suggested mod is that if it stops all creatures from leveling the truly challenging will become far less fun to fight.

[Errel]

marshalleck wrote...

Why is there always someone who feels the need to couch criticism/feedback in obscure forum roleplay?

You know nobody but other Lit nerds are going to read it all the way through in order to figure out what you're talking about, right?

Because it's funny and you're less likely to get flooded with L2P retards, since they generally have the attention span of a goldfish. It's really quite clever.

@OP, well done. Made me smile, reminded me of some of the various comics/jokes that have been made at the expense of this very problem

[DonkeyBarf]

Dark83 wrote...

DonkeyBarf wrote...

Oh I expect there's something else plot driven eventually.  But since you've conquered the game and I am several hundred hours away from that, is each random encounter scaled all the time? 

Dragon Age: Origins - The Missing Manual >> Challenge Scaling

Right, but that deals primarily with area encounters, not the random encounters <i>between</i> areas.  Or I just missed the part in that article where it deals with random encounters.

[DonkeyBarf]

Errel wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Why is there always someone who feels the need to couch criticism/feedback in obscure forum roleplay?

You know nobody but other Lit nerds are going to read it all the way through in order to figure out what you're talking about, right?

Because it's funny and you're less likely to get flooded with L2P retards, since they generally have the attention span of a goldfish. It's really quite clever.

@OP, well done. Made me smile, reminded me of some of the various comics/jokes that have been made at the expense of this very problem

TY  and as for marshalleck who I don't think I responded to; yes it indeed weeds out trolling etc. How did you get through? Oh snap! Just kidding, everyone's entitled.

If it means that I get more well thought out responses and opinions from others about other experiences with scaling in my post then I did my job right.

[Selvec_Darkon]

DonkeyBarf wrote...

Selvec_Darkon wrote...

So basically the whole post can be brought down to a gripe with "Level Up" as the term used for character improvement.

If it was replaced by "Your character won't chop off his own arms anymore", then you'd be happier with it?

Erm... no.  You may have misunderstood my story.  My aim is not to grip about character advancement.  It's an embellished comment on how I perceive the game due to scaling.  A lot of games scale - it's the new drug - but that can kill the immersion a little.  That's if you like being immersed at all, you may play the game just for a level grind and that's fine too.

Given the kinda game DA:O is, it wouldn't suit to have a system like Gothic (Which is what you seem to want). As the hero, who is meant to be a badass warrior who is above even the elites of his house/family etc etc, shouldn't be getting his butt handed to him by bandit number five. However, in saying this, should he be automatically able to hand the bat to the ass of any creature, the game would be frightfully boring, and frankely not worth playing, be the equilivent to a multi-choice book adventure. Turn to page 38 to face loghain.

Scaling suits the game. Now if we were to watch the training of this hero from holding a sword for the first time, to killing his first dragon. Then yes, I'd agree a non-scaling system would be preferable, but we are not. That's what we have Risen for.