231 réponses à ce sujet

[PinkShoes]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

PinkShoes wrote...

If your an RPG fan you'll probably enjoy DAO more if your more of an action fan you'll probably like DA2 more.

You cant say "well i dont think you should like this game and here are all my reasons why" because its not your choice. I didnt hate DA2 but i enjy DAO so much more.

The graphics werent perfect by any means but i like it way more than such a clean cartoony graphics style.

Also story wise you prefer "and in those 3 years you did awesome stuff but you dont see any of it and dont be silly thinking you can PLAY it!"?

I, personally, belive DAO is the better game. You liked DA2 more. Thats fine.

So, you're saying that DA2 action can be compared to a proper action game, like GoW3, Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden, even PS2 GoW games? The main problem with DA2 is that you can't have a party RPG with pause and a proper action. It's either one or the other. They ended up providing sub-par result on both fronts.

I dont remember saying that. I said if your more of a DA2 fan your probably like action more which was the focus. I didnt say it was an actual action game nor did i say it was a good action game.

[CuriousArtemis]

GavrielKay wrote...

I think at least part of wondering if the OP was trolling was due to trying to restrict the arguments to the narrative in both games.  The narrative being only one of many differences between the games and not necessarily the biggest complaint about DA2.

 

I don't think s/he was trying to do that, and in any case, I like DA2 in all other ways more than DA:O.  Only thing DA:O did better was the different environments.  DA2 reused them way too much.

GavrielKay wrote... 

One nicely reliable result of "save the world" story lines is that it isn't hard to role play a character who generally wants to save the world.  Sure, you could role play a relentlessly evil bastard, but even that person probably wants to have a world to exploit.  Playing a character that can see the value in not letting mindless hordes destroy or corrupt every other living thing on the planet is pretty easy.
 

  

Actually, I played my Dalish Warden as extremely reluctant to help xD  He wasn't a big fan of "saving the day" up until the final battle.  He just wanted to go home and try and find Tamlin again D:  But don't tell Zevran that.

GavrielKay wrote... 

By contrast, DA2 failed to ever convince me that Hawke should stay in Kirkwall.  Once we realized the estate was gone and the family would be peniless and left hiding desperately from the Templars I wanted to leave.  The entire time my Hawke was in Kirkwall - from when we first stepped off the ship at the Gallows to when she was stuck trying to decide between murderous Templars and crazy mages - what I really wanted to do was leave.  Nothing about the game ever made me even want to be in the town I was supposed to be a Champion for.

Aww, sorry you felt that way, but I thought it made perfect sense for them to go to Kirkwall.  Hawke's mom said they would go there, so they went.  You do what your mom wants and what she believes will make her happy and comfortable.  Then once there, Hawke can suggest they go elsewhere, but the sibling cuts in and says, We're not making Mother go through this again!  So, they stay.

Then Hawke and the sibling work in Kirkwall for a year.  Hawke sees a way to make his/her fortune and buy back his/her mom's estate by going on the Deep Roads Expedition, so s/he does.  And it works.  Voila!  Fancy pants house xD

Modifié par motomotogirl, 12 mars 2012 - 02:37 .

[TEWR]

How long the player mage travel to Ostagar with Duncan? When Jowan got caught by the Templar in Denerim and when Jowan meet Loghain and when going to Redcliff to poison Arl eamon? it doesn't make sense. Arl Eamon was sick BEFORE the event of Ostagar, before Cailan died, Sir Donall said that in Lothering.

You are deliberately ignoring how long it would take to travel from one point to another and trying to make it so that it's an instantaneous trip.

It's not.

Duncan was in Redcliffe and met with Eamon. When he arrives at Ostagar, he tells Cailan that his uncle sends his greetings.

Loghain had a massive headstart compared to Alistair and the Warden in terms of how far he is to Denerim. It takes at least 2-3 days to get from Redcliffe to Denerim. It'll take roughly the same time to get to Denerim from Lothering.

Loghain escaped Ostagar ahead of the Wardens.

Loghain had already moved past Lothering and was in Denerim prior to the Warden's arrival in Lothering.

So, if the player go to Dalish Elf first then the elf just got attacked by werewolves, but if the player decide going there last? Don't you see the broken time line there? In anyway there is no indication on WHEN Dalish Elf attacked by werewolves.

There is no broken timeline. You go there first, they just recently arrived. You go there last, they just recently arrived.

3 weeks after Dwarf Noble or other origin arrival? It means when Dwarf Noble go out become a Grey Warden and then return it is 3 weeks before? IF the player of Dwarf Noble origin decide to go to Orzamar first it is 3 weeks, but if decide to go last, it is not 3 weeks. I am confuse here...what about other origins time line?

3 weeks prior to the Warden showing up on Orzammar's doorstep to demand aid. That's when Endrin died.

It would take a Dwarf Noble 3 weeks just to get from Orzammar to the Circle, even from under the earth and in the Deep Roads. Probably longer if you want to avoid Darkspawn during your travels.

Then, it's going to take a few days -- at most five -- to get from the Circle to Ostagar.

If a Dwarf Noble is the chosen Origin story and he/she decides to go to Orzammar first, it means a minimum of 7 weeks have progressed since the start of the game. And the dwarven guard will tell you that 3 weeks prior to your arrival -- meaning after the events of Ostagar -- Endrin died.

This is all dependant on when the player decides to do the quest. Endrin could've died four weeks after the fratricide or he could've died months after it. But there is no timeline issue. It's not like any of this destroys the game's timeline.

How come? Arl eamon is sick BEFORE event of Ostagar, the tower in crisis AFTER the event of Ostagar

This is wrong, simply because of what I said above.

If you're a Circle Mage, Eamon is fine. If you're any other origin, Eamon is fine. Teyrn Loghain was in Ostagar -- since he went to Ostagar alongside the King. And this happened prior to any of the Origins' starting points -- and thus couldn't have met with Jowan because Jowan was in Denerim.

You want to believe Loghain could be in two places at once, go ahead. But you're wrong.

how long she erect the barrier? How long they got trapped there without food and water? IF the player choose to go there last, how long? How long??? The Right o Anulment being called while the warden is in Lothering, Ser Braynt inform that.

Food and water could've easily been taken with them as they were fleeing from the demons. Or they had a supply in that area. There were a few crates and barrels in the room with the barrier, not to mention a crapton of apprentice bedrooms.

Food would no doubt be around there.

So if the player choose Broken Circle quest last, how long Wayne and those mages got trapped? When you arrive there, it is like it JUST happen few minutes ago....

No it isn't.

IF the player choose to there first then it is acceptable, because the attack is just began, BUT if the player choose to go there last, how long they can survive? There is no assumption there, the village is dying no matter the warden go there first or last.

So then headcanon that the village holds thousands of villagers and that when you come down to Redcliffe only a couple hundred are left alive, if you did it last.

The amount of villagers you see should not be taken as evidence of how many villagers there actually are in the game.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 mars 2012 - 03:06 .

[Mallgore]

My only problem with DAO was that i played never winter nights as a kid, never winter nights 2 as i grew older, and playing Origins just got me thinking...haven't i played something exactly like this before? I had no problem with the characters, i didn't complain about the environments. But the thing is as other people have posted already, the Archdemon is kinda lacking in intelligence. I honestly think hitler was smarter (yes i said it Hitler wasn't inelligent in terms of commanding troops. He just took credit for what his generals did) The setting for DAO was fine, i actually loved how there was tension between the Templars and mages and was excited that it was sort of the focus of the second game. However, just because i think DA2 is stronger doesn't excuse the bull**** near the end where Meridith gets supepowers and attacks the player. A more logical way of doing this is Meridith getting jealous of Hawke having more sway over her troops than she does. Orsino didn't even need to be there. Anders would have made a compelling enough antagonist. Hell he should have blasted Orsino and took direct control of the mages who were fleeing for their lives. I am 20, i doubt that changes anything but i have a different philosophy as to how a narritive is stronger. I beleive that characters should control the plot. (not in the sense that every other character bows down to the player) but i mean the character played by the player should have to do more than just charge in an kill x amount of monsters. ( i know that Da2 had its combat change) Quite frankly i will admit it i hate combat in video games (except total war or elderscrolls) I just want to get to the next set of dialogue options. Thats all i cared about in Da2. Origins, despite people saying otherwise, has those black and white choices that i think could have used a rework. I had more flexibility in 2, i based my choices on Hawke as a guy trying to take care of his family. Meh, i spoiled myself with Planescape torment and Kotor 2 the sith lords. So i guess its just me being jaded because i haven't been satisfied with a game since. well DA2 probably won't win as a game. but as a story about people i felt attached. I am not a troll nor was i intending to sound like one. I made a similar thread about why people loved Kotor 1 and hated 2 on the Tor Forums. But i've said my peace i suppose.

[TEWR]

All the problems in each places ACTUALLY happen prior to Ostagar

- Redcliff got attacked by undead
- The Circle in crisis
- Dalish atacked by werewolves
- Orzamar fall in political instability
- Loghain and Ferelden involve in civil war

It is all happened in THE SAME TIME

Sten: No.

Loghain cannot be in two places at once. When Cailan marshalled his forces and marched towards Ostagar, Loghain was alongside him. This happened prior to the events of the Origin stories, as Duncan will tell any Warden.

If you're a mage Warden, then Jowan is still in the Circle plotting his escape. Meaning he hasn't met with Loghain yet because he hasn't been incarcerated by the Templars.

Orzammar's political instability started 3 weeks prior to the Warden's arrival there to gain allies. See what I wrote above. If the Dwarf Noble does the quest first, then Endrin died 3 weeks prior to the Warden's arrival. Which is not long after the events of Ostagar. But if you did it last, Endrin died months after Ostagar.

The Circle Tower didn't fall into a state of chaos until after Ostagar. You can clearly see Uldred at Ostagar, and Wynne will flat out tell you that after Ostagar Uldred started the rebellion.

Moving from one location to another is not instantaneous. Teleportation is impossible in Thedas, short of using an Eluvian (and whether that is teleportation I don't know).



http://images.wikia....31/Ferelden.png

Here's a map of Ferelden. It takes a person 2-3 days to march from Redcliffe to Denerim, sans much rest. Now imagine how long it would take a person who isn't rushing.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 mars 2012 - 03:53 .

[Huntress]

"It takes a person 2-3 days to march from Redcliffe to Denerim"

Although walking speeds can vary greatly depending on factors such as height, weight, age, terrain, surface, load, culture, effort, and fitness, the average human walking speed is about 5.0 kilometres per hour (km/h)

Specific studies have found pedestrian walking speeds ranging from 4.51 km/h to 4.75 km/h for older individuals to 5.32 km/h to 5.43 km/h for younger individuals.

From redcliff to Denerim walking would have been around 7-10 days probably more because monsters loorking/crminals and of course the darkspawn. To me it would have taken a Month going around the horde that was over flowing lothering.

[TEWR]

From redcliff to Denerim walking would have been around 7-10 days probably more because monsters loorking/crminals and of course the darkspawn. To me it would have taken a Month going around the horde that was over flowing lothering.

Who would need to avoid the Darkspawn? Loghain was ahead of the horde when he was moving past Lothering, so he didn't have to avoid them. They were behind him.

Anyway, reason I said sans much rest is simply because Arl Eamon -- or Anora, can't recall -- says that the army will be in Denerim in two days maximum, if they began marching immediately at full speed.

[Wulfram]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Orzammar's political instability started 3 weeks prior to the Warden's arrival there to gain allies. See what I wrote above. If the Dwarf Noble does the quest first, then Endrin died 3 weeks prior to the Warden's arrival. Which is not long after the events of Ostagar. But if you did it last, Endrin died months after Ostagar.

Except you can hear of Endrin's death at Lothering.

I don't think the timeline problems are too bad - it hangs together OK as long as you don't quit in the middle of any main quests, anyway.  But any concrete estimates of time tend to fail badly.

[GavrielKay]

motomotogirl wrote...
I don't think s/he was trying to do that, and in any case, I like DA2 in all other ways more than DA:O.  Only thing DA:O did better was the different environments.  DA2 reused them way too much.

I hated the lack of overhead camera angle.  I hated the goofy moves during fight sequences.  I hated enemies dropping out of nowhere.  I didn't like that battles often ended in cutscenes that would prevent you from looting (and in some cases finding very plot relevant bits of information).  I missed being able to have conversations with my companions without travelling all over.  I missed being able to sort out inventory among them all in one place.

There were other changes I didn't mind, but more that I thought just took away from playability.

motomotogirl wrote...
Actually, I played my Dalish Warden as extremely reluctant to help xD  He wasn't a big fan of "saving the day" up until the final battle.  He just wanted to go home and try and find Tamlin again D:  But don't tell Zevran that.

Well, finding Tamlen wouldn't accomplish much if the whole world was blighted and dead.  But, sure, if that's the mindset you want your character to have.

motomotogirl wrote...
Aww, sorry you felt that way, but I thought it made perfect sense for them to go to Kirkwall.  Hawke's mom said they would go there, so they went.  You do what your mom wants and what she believes will make her happy and comfortable.  Then once there, Hawke can suggest they go elsewhere, but the sibling cuts in and says, We're not making Mother go through this again!  So, they stay.

Then Hawke and the sibling work in Kirkwall for a year.  Hawke sees a way to make his/her fortune and buy back his/her mom's estate by going on the Deep Roads Expedition, so s/he does.  And it works.  Voila!  Fancy pants house xD

It's interesting to me that  in DA:O your character just wanted to find his/her friend Tamlen rather than fight off a blight that would destroy everything your clan knew and loved...  but in DA2 all it took was mom saying 'let's go to Kirkwall' and you were convinced?

I thought mom was misguided and lost and needed to be set straight by a daughter who was thinking more clearly.  Kirkwall didn't want the Hawkes and my Hawke didn't want Kirkwall.  And in the end, my Hawke was right.  Kirkwall destroyed her family one by one and then got worse.

It didn't make sense to me to stay in Kirkwall where we had no influence, had to be indentured to thugs for a year and had to watch our backs for Templars (who incidentally weild more power in Kirkwall than almost anywhere else), the coterie, lyrium smugglers, blood mages and Qunari.  Oh, and activist nuns.

[TEWR]

Except you can hear of Endrin's death at Lothering.

I don't think the timeline problems are too bad - it hangs together OK as long as you don't quit in the middle of any main quests, anyway. But any concrete estimates of time tend to fail badly.

I've never once heard anything dealing with Endrin in Lothering. Unless this is about the tavern guy, in which case I find that to be a fault of the game and can't be held accountable for when King Endrin actually died. And even then, isn't it just that he's sick?

If the Dwarven Guard says that Endrin died 3 weeks prior to the Warden's arrival and we know it takes someone more then 1 week -- I misremembered Dagna's quote -- to get from the Circle to Orzammar, then I'll believe that more then a dialogue by a bartender that can be triggered anytime and anywhere.

As I said, Endrin's death is player dependant. It can be around the time of arriving in Lothering if you do the quest first or months after Ostagar if you do it last.

Now, maybe the timeline isn't entirely perfect, but that's due more to a lack of information or a misrepresentation of information -- like a mileage indicator (lack) or the Bartender dialogue triggering anytime and anywhere (misrepresentation) -- but I wouldn't call it broken. Certainly confusing because of those two things, but I don't think it starts to become broken until.... Awakening.

Now, if we had something like "1 inch = 300 miles" -- as an example -- we could make a better estimate. And if we knew the pace the Warden and party were traveling at -- leisurely or running -- then we could make an even better estimate.

A leisurely walking pace usually takes a person 17-18 minutes to complete a mile. Running takes half that for a healthy person. No doubt the party is in fact healthy.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 mars 2012 - 04:34 .

[Lazy Jer]

Nizaris1 wrote...

It seems that you don't see the broken time line issue in DA:O, let me make it simple...

Honestly speaking, I think you're overthinking it.  If the timeline is broken it's because the programmers want you to experience content in each of the regions and don't want to have to cheat you out of certain quests because you couldn't beat the clock.

[TEWR]

[quote]Nizaris1 wrote...

It seems that you don't see the broken time line issue in DA:O, let me make it simple...

1. At Lothering, Serbryant told you if you ask, the Right of Anulment have been called
- you may NOT going to the circle tower right away
- IF you go to somewhere else first, when you arrived to the Circle Tower, there is a broken timeline there
- when you arrived, Gregoir is just shut up the big door, Wayne just kill a rage demon who happen to be there...now the question is[/quote]

Just because he called for it doesn't mean the message was received by the Grand Cleric in Denerim, who commands the Templars of Ferelden.

"I've heard that the Right of Annulment has been called for" =/= "So a RoA is going to be happening really soon. There are Templars already on their way to the Circle."

hell, Gregoir even admits that he thinks the message he sent didn't make it IIRC.


[quote]
i. when the Right of Anulment being called? ---> After Ostagar, the warden in Lothering
ii. when Uldred rebel and take over the tower and how long? ----> after Ostagar and while the Warden is busy at somewhere else in which may take month or a year, but when you arrive there, it is JUST happened[/quote]

*buzzer noise*

WRONG.

It didn't just happen. It's been happening. Immediately after Ostagar, Uldred began a rebellion. That rebellion had turned into a full scale demonic invasion and continued, only kept in check by Wynne's barrier.


[quote]
- to assume that Wayne got food is unacceptable, unless if you want to justify it, go ahead[/quote]

Yes, it's completely impossible that the Apprentice Quarters were stationed with -- or even secretly hiding -- food or that Wynne and everyone took some when they were fleeing from the demons. [/sarcasm]




[quote]
2. Jowan escape the tower, mage PC travel with Duncan
- how long the travel take? ----. we never know, When Duncan arrive he said Arl Eamon will be late,[/quote]

Wrong again. He doesn't say that Eamon will be late. He says that Eamon and his forces could be at Ostagar in a week. Duncan was trying to get Cailan to hold off on initiating a battle with the Darkspawn until Eamon arrived. Cailan just wanted the battle to happen immediately.

He wasn't saying "Your uncle's late, let's hold off". He was saying "Let's hold off until your uncle brings his reinforcements at the scheduled time."

[quote]
i. When Duncan meet Arl Eamon? ---> Mage PC also in Redcliff? Or Duncan was in Redcliff first before the Tower?[/quote]

Before. As one can access the Circle Tower from Redcliffe Village in one day by traversing the lake.


[quote]
ii. Sir Donall in Lothering said the Arl fell sick BEFORE the King die ---> Duncan don't know the Arl got sick? If Duncan pass by Redcliff Duncan should know the Arl is sick, and mage PC also know[/quote]

Doesn't matter. Jowan says he was incarcerated by the Templars and met personally with Teyrn Loghain in Denerim.

 at the 2 minute mark.

Frankly, for all we know Eamon had a cold and Ser Donnal thought the cold was connected to his poisoning sickness.


[quote]
3. Trian is dead, PC Dwarf Noble sent to Deep Road
- PC Dwarf Nobe MAY go to Orzamar first or last
i. When Endrin dead? ----> if PC go there first then it is 3 weeks, if PC go there last it is still 3 weeks? What happen in between?[/quote]

What do you mean what happened in between? Endrin's death is determined by when the player decided to go there.

If you do the quest first, then it happened around the time of the Fall of Ostagar (3 weeks prior to you arriving at the gates of Orzammar). If you do it last, it happened 3 weeks prior to when you arrived at the gates of Orzammar.

So long as Endrin was alive -- even if he was bedridden -- a civil war couldn't go on. That's why Bhelen imported a kingkiller poison that was mistakenly given to another noble.

[quote]
- PC MAY go to Denerim first to meet Gorim ----> Gorim already got married and sell Dwarven craft AFTER Lothering[/quote]

And this matters why? It's irrelevant.

[quote]
i. how long between PC got exiled, battle of Ostagar, going to Lothering then to Denerim and see that Gorim got married?[/quote]

a month? Maybe a few weeks more given that traveling from one point to another is not instantaneous.



[quote]
5. How long Jowan is in Redcliff prison?
- before and after battle of Ostagar [/quote]

My god this is absurdly wrong.

Jowan flat out states that he was incarcerated in Denerim before being told by Loghain to begin poisoning Eamon under the guise of a tutor for Connor.



[quote]
ii. IF the mage PC doing Urn of Sacred Ashes first before going to Redclif, in the ruin he/she will meet Jowan, while the real Jowan is in Redcliff castle

[/quote]

That's because the Jowan you meet in the Urn quest isn't the real Jowan. It's not supposed to be. It's supposed to be a manifestation of the connection between the Warden and the person he relates to, like how you can see Shianni as a City Elf or Tamlen as a Dalish Elf (when Tamlen is still alive, even as a Ghoul)

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 mars 2012 - 07:04 .

[Alessa]

Alexa_ wrote...

I liked DA2 (after the first shock about Anders' drastic personality change passed) but I LOVED DAO!

The characters of the companions in DAO were more "balanced" and each one of them "loveable". In DA2 you were surrounded by companions being psychotic much of a muchness ... except of Varric and perhaps Aveline.

The romancing and like/dislike system in DAO was much better, deeper, more detailed and realistic than the friendship/rivalry and romancing system in DA2. I never will forget the way my heart felt, when Alistair came to me and asked me to sleep with him! <3
In that playthrough I had the "private-dialogue-option" but did not use it. And after some time, when we got back to camp, Alistair came to me and told me that he wanted to spend the night with me! It was absolutely unexpected ... and he was soooo cute!!!!   Same when he gave that rose to me ... what a wonderful, romantic gesture!!! <3

In DA2 it's all up to YOU to flirt and make your number one man/women sleep with you ... that's really frustrating, because you never get the feeling of beeing in demand ... as you get in DAO! ... And the fact, that all your companions suddenly are bi ... even the one you knew before (Anders) as obviously being straight ... is very irritating! I would have preferred to have the option in my game settings to choose whether I want my companions to be straight or bi or same-sex.

Another important point is the ending ... In DAO you have the chance to get some kind of happy ending. In DA2 you can choose between a sad ending (romancing Anders and killing him), a bitter ending (romancing Anders and sparing him) and a cliffhanger (romancing anyone else)!

There are many other points to mention, but these are the most important ones for me.

Same are my feelings about DAO and DA2.

I didn't know that Alistair would come to me if I didn't ask him first to sleep with me! How cute! I just have to try this out!

Modifié par Alessa-00, 13 mars 2012 - 04:40 .

[TEWR]

You just prove my point, so, when PC mage meet Jowan in the Redcliff castle, PC mage automatically know the first one is FAKE Jowan...

What the hell does this have to do with your false assertion of a "broken timeline"?

EDIT: And I wouldn't even call it a "fake" Jowan. Rather, I'd call it a real Jowan, insofar as how the Warden remembers him/her.

There's a saying that I remember stating once in the past before, long ago on these forums (in a galaxy far far away). The post itself is mine from the very first thread I made:

that wasn't the guardian. It's a part of the person's soul. The guardian is just able to make that feeling, sentiment, whatever you call it manifest itself. There's a saying that goes like this...

Everyone carries a bit of everyone they know inside of themselves

We each leave our mark on another person. a bit of our soul, a bit of our attitude, a bit of who we are. The Guardian is able to give form to that mark.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 mars 2012 - 07:28 .

[TEWR]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Let me get straight,

1. Arl Eamon was sick BEFORE Cailan died, which means BEFORE battle of Ostagar

Yes, sick meaning normal sickness. Ser Donall just states that Eamon was sick before the king died. He doesn't say what from, nor if it's the same symptoms as he had later on. It could've just been a minor cold, allergies, etc. and Donall thought it was linked to his current illness.

2. WHEN Duncan meet Arl Eamon? Before or after going to Circle Tower to recruit mage PC?

If you read what I wrote, before.

I'm not going to repeat myself if you're not going to read what I wrote a few times already.

It should also be noted that I think there was a scrapped Origin story that took place in Redcliffe.

3. When Knight of redcliff searching for the Urn? Before or after Battle of Ostagar?

After.

Answer these 3 question first, then tell me where is Jowan when the mage PC at

Circle Tower--->Ostagar---->Lothering

Circle Tower, he flees.

Afterwards, he's caught and incarcerated in Denerim during the battle of Ostagar, as I've already stated numerous times and yet you seem to be deliberately ignoring it.

Then when Teyrn Loghain flees the field of Ostagar -- where he's got a massive headstart over the Wardens -- he heads to Denerim, where he meets with Jowan and tells him to poison Eamon.

[GavrielKay]

Do we know how long the Warden and Alistair spend recuperating with Flemeth after the battle at Ostagar? That could give you a gap to work with in the timeline.

[Viyu]

motomotogirl wrote...

I'm not reading any of the wall of texts lol But I did see someone call this OP a troll, which confuses me.  Maybe I don't understand the definition of "troll."  I think this person is just confused why so many people dis DA2 and profess to love DA:O.  It confuses me, too, because I also love DA2 and find DA:O quite ho-hum

Koire wrote...

As someone who played DAO and DAA after DA2, I have to admit I don't understand all the praise for DAO either. I liked DA2 better.

Mostly I agree with everything Koire said.  I also played DA2 first and DA:O second.  

The silent protagonist is the main reason I haven't played DA:O again.  It's so boring; I feel like my Warden is a shell of a person.  Blah.

The story is okay, I guess.  It reminds me of the fantasy books I read in high school.  I wouldn't read anything like that again though.  I guess I've moved beyond those simple kinds of narratives.

Some of the quests are too long.  If there were no Fade quest, I might actually, maybe pick DA:O up again.  But when I've got an hour or so before bed, and I think to myself, do I want to wander fruitlessly through the Fade for an hour ... or read my book?  Book wins every time lol

While the protagonist is silent, they do communicate with other characters without saying verbally saying it.And what you are communicating with the other NPCs is clearly defined in text. The thing about Hawke is that while DA2 allows the player to shapen Hawke's temperment BETTER than the Warden, that temperament doesn't actually do much to impact the story. Everything ends the same regardless of "how" Hawke says it. Anders still blows up the chantry. Carver or Bethany still dies, or goes to the Chantry, Hawke's mother is still murdered, and you still fight Meredith and the Arishok. The amount of choice you have in DA2 is cosmetic, and affects characters who do not alter the meat of the story. Characters that give you mini-quests or whatnot. So while you can say Hawke has more "personality" than the Warden, the criticism is that the personality doesn't get you anywhere DIFFERENT.