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Why does everyone love Dragon age Origins so much?


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#151
Lazy Jer

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Kavatica wrote...

I find it odd that people who don't like a game would bother participating in a forum about the aforementioned game in the first place. I don't like bananas. This doesn't mean I feel the need to run around to every grocery store in town placing a manifesto on why bananas are horrible in the produce section.


Well I can see posting something on a forum airing out your particular complaints about the game.  What I don't get is the insistence that the game is broken and that everyone who disagrees is in denial somehow.  Which I've seen in this thread.  Not mentioning any names, but I've seen it. 

#152
Kavatica

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Lazy Jer wrote...

Kavatica wrote...

I find it odd that people who don't like a game would bother participating in a forum about the aforementioned game in the first place. I don't like bananas. This doesn't mean I feel the need to run around to every grocery store in town placing a manifesto on why bananas are horrible in the produce section.


Well I can see posting something on a forum airing out your particular complaints about the game.  What I don't get is the insistence that the game is broken and that everyone who disagrees is in denial somehow.  Which I've seen in this thread.  Not mentioning any names, but I've seen it. 


True. I have no problem with people saying certain things about the game that they don't like, especially if it is with the intention of getting something fixed or upgraded in a patch, etc. But to go to all the trouble of joining a forum just to say you hate a game in its entirety... I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't understand that. I have purchased games that I didn't enjoy. I never bothered joining a forum to vent my grievances, because I can understand how and why other people may have enjoyed it. I mean I guess I just don't make the assumption that just because I don't like something, there is something inherently wrong with it, or that no one else should like it either.

Modifié par Kavatica, 16 mars 2012 - 09:03 .


#153
seraphymon

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Nizaris1 wrote...

I can list all broken mechanic in DA:O, or should i open new thread?

1. Weapon and shield is supposed to be a tank, but have no immunity to stun and only have immunity to knockdown at level 12. It means your tank is fragile, got stunned by surrounding enemies, can't do anything and get hit, then got knocked down before reaching level 12. what kind of a tank who can't do anything because get stunned every time? In higher level, your tank is likely dead in few seconds just because got stunned and knocked down.

2. Two handlers is suppose to be off-tank, but have immunity to stun and knockdown at level 2. What is that? two handlers are suppose to be get away from enemies because have less defense,only fighting 1 vs 1 all the time, the immunity is useless for off-tank, only usable when fighting boss. But as off tank, doesn't suppose to have immunity from stun and knockdown at level 2.

3. Mage staff is for decoration only, the most pathetic weapon in the game. i remember the Templar spirit in the Fade saying "use it with valor!', turn out to be it is only good to scratch my back. It is because the developer want you to spam spells, but all mages must have staff. Actually, to balance it out is by increasing cool down, casting time and mana cost and so the staff damage can be increased, the player will use staff as primary weapon and spell as nuke. if want players to rely on spam, then just throw away staff from the game, decrease or remove cool down, cheaper spell cost and increase enemy resistance.

4. The ultimate power of a rogue is to fake death....what is that? All the way the player have built their rogue character and at last the ultimate power is to fake death???

These are just few example of broken mechanic in the game. Not to mention about archery.....


Im afraid your the one whos mostly confused here. Where did you get the idea that specific fighting styles is made to fit the roles you just mentioned? Granted those roles are common in certain MMos but that does not apply to every game or every mmo.

Two handers be off tank? theres no mentioning thats what they are for. its just a style of fighting. Certainly shield and sword can be the tank, but they survive alot more than you give them credit for. Stunning is used so little in this game your not gonna notice it. Cause usually when stunning occurs the whole party gets stunned. But wether  a shield or sword gets knocked down stunned or just stands there, they still take the same dmg, and will die either way. Only difference is not being able to use a potion while stunned or knocked down. Shield and sword is slow building up, that is true, but catch up and really excel at tanking in later lvls.

I dont know what your problem is with Mage stave is. But doesnt it it follow the traditional weapons of mages? Sure its mostly of a stat boost, but i actually found that its base range attack is good to have, to pull enemies with in certain situations, along with the archer. Or to take out an enemy from far away, in which some other mage spells may require being closer.

and obviously you are underestimating rogue.  certainly a problem was sharing too many abilities with the warrior, but its own abilities are better than you think.

Archery in DAo certainly wasnt build for dmg, but nothing says thats what is was for. It did need more work and it was given that with awakening and beyond. However this was the only style that would even come close.

To me like others have already said is just whining about the styles dont fit  whatyou think they should be. That doesnt mean its broken again. Broken is when something is not working as it should, and all the abilities and stuff of the classes work like they should. Your opinion of them such as oh the tank is weak, well it may have been for you. But  i like many other found the tank to be succesful in taking the hits.

#154
DPSSOC

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Nizaris1 wrote...
1. Weapon and shield is supposed to be a tank, but have no immunity to stun and only have immunity to knockdown at level 12. It means your tank is fragile,

 
Now wouldn't low defence, armor, and hp make a tank fragile?  Getting stunned sucks but the effectiveness of a tank is measured mainly in their ability to hold attention and absorb damage.  Sword and board doesn't have any real issues in these categories.  Even my first one, which was poorly built, was able to take a good deal of punishment and keep the pressure off my mages.

Nizaris1 wrote...
In higher level, your tank is likely dead in few seconds just because got stunned and knocked down.


Are we playing the same game, again even my bad S&B Warrior was an absolute beast once I broke 15.

Nizaris1 wrote...
3. Mage staff is for decoration only, the most pathetic weapon in the game. i remember the Templar spirit in the Fade saying "use it with valor!', turn out to be it is only good to scratch my back. It is because the developer want you to spam spells, but all mages must have staff.

 
Or a sword, or a mace, or an axe, or two handed sword, or maul, or axe, or bow.  This isn't DA2 where mages can only use particular weapons, you have access to all of them, if you feel the staff doesn't pack enough punch pick something else.

Nizaris1 wrote...
Actually, to balance it out is by increasing cool down, casting time and mana cost and so the staff damage can be increased, the player will use staff as primary weapon and spell as nuke. if want players to rely on spam, then just throw away staff from the game, decrease or remove cool down, cheaper spell cost and increase enemy resistance.


Why, why do these changes need to be made?  You'd have an argument that the class was broken if the low damage of the staves kept mages from progressing but it doesn't.  It doesn't even slow them down.  So why is this broken, I can see how player could not like this system but it isn't broken.

Nizaris1 wrote...
4. The ultimate power of a rogue is to fake death....what is that? All the way the player have built their rogue character and at last the ultimate power is to fake death???


How is this a broken mechanic?  It'd be broken if feign death left you defenceless but enemies still attacked you, that would be broken but you not liking the power doesn't mean it doesn't work, or that it isn't useful.  It's another means of controlling agro in the game, if your rogues are getting too much heat; play dead so the enemy focuses elsewhere, and then bounc back.

#155
dragonflight288

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The combat in Origins was designed to require players to stop and think tactics before engaging in battle. It's meant to make us think 'how can I use this particular ability to maximize how much damage my mages or rogues can do while keeping the enemies attention focused on the warrior who can take a lot more hits?' It wasn't meant to be we wade in and destroy everything in our path.

#156
TEWR

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dragonflight288 wrote...

It wasn't meant to be we wade in and destroy everything in our path.


That's how it always ended up being for me. Mainly because DA AI sucks something awful. Maybe lizard eggs.

#157
maxernst

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

It wasn't meant to be we wade in and destroy everything in our path.


That's how it always ended up being for me. Mainly because DA AI sucks something awful. Maybe lizard eggs.


The tactics were the one area where DA2 was unquestionably superior.  I probably didn't use them as well as I could but the shear power of instructions with multiple conditions, and the increased variety of conditions you could set, were really very good.  I think it has the best player-programmable A.I. scripts I've seen in a game.  Although they didn't always seem to work as advertised and the inability to hold position properly was annoying.

Modifié par maxernst, 17 mars 2012 - 01:51 .


#158
Guest_Nizaris1_*

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I give you n example how broken the mechanic is

1. Threaten and Taunt is level 4 talents, first you must learn Powerful and Precise Striking. Which mean at level 3 you only have ONE weapon talent to learn before you can tanking, in which it is not enough for tanking. While you are at level 4, you draw aggro but you can't hold it with your current weapon skill.

2. Two Handler for off-tanking, all the talents are not for tank, only Sweep give you AoE melee at level 10, which mean originally Two Handlers is suppose to off-tank because there is no defense and escape mechanism other than Sweep at level 10. All other skills are for 1 vs 1 duel. But funnily Two Handlers got 1 talent that suppose to a tank talent that is Indomitable. Two Handlers don't need it much in off tank. Weapon and Shield is supposed to have Indomitable.

3. You draw aggro in early game, the enemies surround you taking turn to use Dirty Fighting or Shield Pummel, some of the enemy using Bash on you, as a tank you can do nothing to handle the situation, you will rely on your healer to heal you in which you don't get healer early in the game. You just a sitting duck there. In higher level, archer enemies also have scatter shot, then your tank is suck. In 5 seconds you dead.

4. A tank should be fast build not slow build, because a tank job is to hold down enemies, taking or blocking damage and stand ground. What the hell a tank build slow? That is a bad mechanic.

5. Feign Death should not be the last perk in Rogue tree, it is because the player have build their rogue character to be able to stand in combat, no one use Feign Death. Don't lie to me, Feign Death is just a waste perk. It suppose to be the first perk not the last, because when you are strong, you don't need to fake death. That is broken.

6. In DA:O, the combat is always mob fighting, but the game doesn't provide the proper mechanic to handle it. 4 person with tank, dps, nuke and healer tu run against mob. Each mob deal X damage, stun and bash to a suck tank, the tank can't hold it, Two Handler off tank is too slow, backstabbing Rogue and haler Mage are too fragile...when tank down, all down. That is broken mechanic. Just try out Denerim Back Alley early on.

6. Alistair is an anti-Mage, at the same time he suppose to be a tank, but he don't fit both in early and middle game. His stats is to low for a tank, and he only have 1 talent that is drain mana in which useless fighting mages early on. He is a total mess. The Hurlock Alpha in Korcari Wild give fireball and he can do nothing as an anti mage. The same with against mages early on at Circle Tower, or in the ruin at Denerim. By the time he have other anti-mage skills, there are not much mages anymore in the game, and mages are not a threat anymore. Not only that, he suck at tanking. Alistair is the perfect example of broken mechanic.

#159
Realmzmaster

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maxernst wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

It wasn't meant to be we wade in and destroy everything in our path.


That's how it always ended up being for me. Mainly because DA AI sucks something awful. Maybe lizard eggs.


The tactics were the one area where DA2 was unquestionably superior.  I probably didn't use them as well as I could but the shear power of instructions with multiple conditions, and the increased variety of conditions you could set, were really very good.  I think it has the best player-programmable A.I. scripts I've seen in a game.  Although they didn't always seem to work as advertised and the inability to hold position properly was annoying.


I think the whole not holding position properly was deliberate. I could be mistaken, but I notice that party members were only allowed to be certain distance from the controlled character. If the controlled character was in a passage way with two doors with one door meant to lock after the party goes through.
I
f you tell the party to hold before the door and send the controlled member down the passage way to the next door the held members move just enough to be inside the first door. When the second door is opened the first locks shut trapping the party.
But maybe I am just paranoid.

#160
Kavatica

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You have pretty eyes.

#161
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Nizaris1 wrote...
i am done


>goes on to write three more TL;DR dissertations on why the game is oh so bah-roken

#162
Kavatica

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Nizaris1 wrote...

6. Alistair is an anti-Mage, at the same time he suppose to be a tank, but he don't fit both in early and middle game. His stats is to low for a tank, and he only have 1 talent that is drain mana in which useless fighting mages early on. He is a total mess. The Hurlock Alpha in Korcari Wild give fireball and he can do nothing as an anti mage. The same with against mages early on at Circle Tower, or in the ruin at Denerim. By the time he have other anti-mage skills, there are not much mages anymore in the game, and mages are not a threat anymore. Not only that, he suck at tanking. Alistair is the perfect example of broken mechanic.


Image IPB

Modifié par Kavatica, 17 mars 2012 - 02:30 .


#163
dragonflight288

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1. Threaten and Taunt is level 4 talents, first you must learn Powerful and Precise Striking. Which mean at level 3 you only have ONE weapon talent to learn before you can tanking, in which it is not enough for tanking. While you are at level 4, you draw aggro but you can't hold it with your current weapon skill.


You are a low level Warden without a lot of points in strength or constitution yet, or you have no experience with leveling up (if the person in question is playing for the first time) so that means you have to rely on teamwork. Archers like Daveth at first, using Jory to rush in, and wade in shortly after, and just generally fight smart while you get stronger. Nothing broken about that.

2. Two Handler for off-tanking, all the talents are not for tank, only Sweep give you AoE melee at level 10, which mean originally Two Handlers is suppose to off-tank because there is no defense and escape mechanism other than Sweep at level 10. All other skills are for 1 vs 1 duel. But funnily Two Handlers got 1 talent that suppose to a tank talent that is Indomitable. Two Handlers don't need it much in off tank. Weapon and Shield is supposed to have Indomitable.


Two-handed fighting wasn't originally meant to be for tank. But for huge damage dealing in single strikes. The fact that they wear heavy armor helps them take hits, but they are meant to do far more damage, or damage to multiple enemies. The fact that they can knock down multiple enemies in a single swing helps out with that. Again, not broken.

3. You draw aggro in early game, the enemies surround you taking turn to use Dirty Fighting or Shield Pummel, some of the enemy using Bash on you, as a tank you can do nothing to handle the situation, you will rely on your healer to heal you in which you don't get healer early in the game. You just a sitting duck there. In higher level, archer enemies also have scatter shot, then your tank is suck. In 5 seconds you dead.


You also fight low level enemies early in the game. Red named bosses doesn't take place until the Ogre at Ostagar on top of the tower of Ishal. Again, a little teamwork at the beginning goes a long way to keeping enemies off of damage dealers. And health poultices exist for a reason. yet again, not broken.

4. A tank should be fast build not slow build, because a tank job is to hold down enemies, taking or blocking damage and stand ground. What the hell a tank build slow? That is a bad mechanic.


Because the level your enemies fighting you at also go up slowly. And you can always use other teammates abilities to single enemies out, stunning shot with an archer to take an enemy temporarily out of the fight, stasis from creation mages, grenades and acid flasks. The warden isn't the only one with abilities to even out the fighting and that allows him/her take a lot more damage.

Yet again, not broken, just a gameplay mechanic you disagree with.

5. Feign Death should not be the last perk in Rogue tree, it is because the player have build their rogue character to be able to stand in combat, no one use Feign Death. Don't lie to me, Feign Death is just a waste perk. It suppose to be the first perk not the last, because when you are strong, you don't need to fake death. That is broken.


Rogues can also learn abilities like stealth or poison faster than a mage or a warrior, thereby getting more of them. Why can't a rogue use stealth, get behind an enemy, and then start hammering away? Or use their many abilities that stun or hinder enemies movement speed or attack speed to help? Again, gameplay issue, not a broken mechanic.

6. In DA:O, the combat is always mob fighting, but the game doesn't provide the proper mechanic to handle it. 4 person with tank, dps, nuke and healer tu run against mob. Each mob deal X damage, stun and bash to a suck tank, the tank can't hold it, Two Handler off tank is too slow, backstabbing Rogue and haler Mage are too fragile...when tank down, all down. That is broken mechanic. Just try out Denerim Back Alley early on.


But if the gamer uses all the talents of a well-rounded party, even group fighting becomes laughably easy. Traps, mass area spells, grenades and poison flasks, poisoned weapons, stunning, knocking over, general skills of a well-rounded party once again makes up for facing a lot of numbers. Gameplay mechanic and a battle system meant to fight smart with tactics more than brute force. Not broken.

6. Alistair is an anti-Mage, at the same time he suppose to be a tank, but he don't fit both in early and middle game. His stats is to low for a tank, and he only have 1 talent that is drain mana in which useless fighting mages early on. He is a total mess. The Hurlock Alpha in Korcari Wild give fireball and he can do nothing as an anti mage. The same with against mages early on at Circle Tower, or in the ruin at Denerim. By the time he have other anti-mage skills, there are not much mages anymore in the game, and mages are not a threat anymore. Not only that, he suck at tanking. Alistair is the perfect example of broken mechanic.


Have him attack a mage quickly, have one other warrior in the party (Warden or Sten), one rogue and one mage, and that's usually more than enough to keep the entire party alive most of the time while you level up. Once again, a gameplay mechanic and not broken. It was designed to think about what to do before entering battle, not expect everyone to be the best at it from the beginning. Again, not an issue. And once again, health poultices exist for a reason.

Not broken. Just not what you are used to. Granted, if you play DA2 before Origins, I can see why you would take issue with it, but DA2 came after, so the combat was improved.

#164
maxernst

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Who says any one character is supposed to be the tank? Seriously, where in the manual does the word tank appear? And both two-handed warriors and sword-and-shield can choose to have traditional "tank" type abilities like threaten and taunt, but nobody forces you to develop the characters that way.   If you find the character's too fragile to have taunt on all the time, don't use taunt all the time.  Or maybe have two taunting characters so they split the damage up between them.  I hardly used those abilities at all. In my first playthrough, I generally played three melee characters (Alistair, Oghren, dual-wielding Rogue) so I didn't really need to have just one character absorbing all the damage. The rogues dex was so high, he didn't get hit much, so really all three characters could hold their own. I mostly used Alistair to stun opponents with his shield attacks and the other two made mincemeat of opponents. A game is not broken just because it requires tactics different from the ones you want to use.  In fact, I know now that what I was doing was far from optimal, but I was still able to succeed which means there's more than one way to succeed.  I think that's a sign of a system that is not, in fact, broken.

Tanking is a stupid mechanic, anyway. When you face a group of enemies, do you go after the heavily armored guy first rather than the mage or the dual-wielding rogue? If so, I'm not surprised you're having trouble with the game.

As to feign death--yeah, it's a dumb ability.  So don't take it!  You have choices for a reason; nothing compels you to take abilities you don't think will be useful.  The fact that there's one top rank skill that's kind of useless hardly makes the game broken.  Rogues are great.  I didn't even use Alistair much against mages because once I got combat stealth, I could generally take them out very quickly with my rogue. 

Modifié par maxernst, 17 mars 2012 - 03:20 .


#165
TEWR

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Alistair is an anti-Mage


Don't know what the hell kinda game you were playing. Alistair is pro-mage. He's anti-blood magic. Unless by "anti-mage" you don't mean he's a douche to mages, but that he's trained in Templar abilities -- and is technically an ex-Templar initiate.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 17 mars 2012 - 03:39 .


#166
dragonflight288

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I think she meant templar abilities for fighting mages.

#167
Lazy Jer

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Nizaris1 wrote...

I give you n example how broken the mechanic is


Why do I get the feeling you're not actually reading our responses to your posts?

#168
seraphymon

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Nizaris1 wrote...

I give you n example how broken the mechanic is

1. Threaten and Taunt is level 4 talents, first you must learn Powerful and Precise Striking. Which mean at level 3 you only have ONE weapon talent to learn before you can tanking, in which it is not enough for tanking. While you are at level 4, you draw aggro but you can't hold it with your current weapon skill.


2. Two Handler for off-tanking, all the talents are not for tank, only Sweep give you AoE melee at level 10, which mean originally Two Handlers is suppose to off-tank because there is no defense and escape mechanism other than Sweep at level 10. All other skills are for 1 vs 1 duel. But funnily Two Handlers got 1 talent that suppose to a tank talent that is Indomitable. Two Handlers don't need it much in off tank. Weapon and Shield is supposed to have Indomitable.

3. You draw aggro in early game, the enemies surround you taking turn to use Dirty Fighting or Shield Pummel, some of the enemy using Bash on you, as a tank you can do nothing to handle the situation, you will rely on your healer to heal you in which you don't get healer early in the game. You just a sitting duck there. In higher level, archer enemies also have scatter shot, then your tank is suck. In 5 seconds you dead.

4. A tank should be fast build not slow build, because a tank job is to hold down enemies, taking or blocking damage and stand ground. What the hell a tank build slow? That is a bad mechanic.

5. Feign Death should not be the last perk in Rogue tree, it is because the player have build their rogue character to be able to stand in combat, no one use Feign Death. Don't lie to me, Feign Death is just a waste perk. It suppose to be the first perk not the last, because when you are strong, you don't need to fake death. That is broken.

6. In DA:O, the combat is always mob fighting, but the game doesn't provide the proper mechanic to handle it. 4 person with tank, dps, nuke and healer tu run against mob. Each mob deal X damage, stun and bash to a suck tank, the tank can't hold it, Two Handler off tank is too slow, backstabbing Rogue and haler Mage are too fragile...when tank down, all down. That is broken mechanic. Just try out Denerim Back Alley early on.

6. Alistair is an anti-Mage, at the same time he suppose to be a tank, but he don't fit both in early and middle game. His stats is to low for a tank, and he only have 1 talent that is drain mana in which useless fighting mages early on. He is a total mess. The Hurlock Alpha in Korcari Wild give fireball and he can do nothing as an anti mage. The same with against mages early on at Circle Tower, or in the ruin at Denerim. By the time he have other anti-mage skills, there are not much mages anymore in the game, and mages are not a threat anymore. Not only that, he suck at tanking. Alistair is the perfect example of broken mechanic.



Let me ask you. Where was it ever written that a certainy style should play like so and so? Just cause other MMos have it where a role does this and this in order to forfull the role and succeed in team based games?
Such as shield and sword, a tank sure, but is it supposed to act like all other MMOs to the t? If it was then yes broken, but fact is it isnt written. As it is Tanks work fine, and again it comes back to progression. You not gonna have all the things necessisary to be all that at the beginning. Same goes for the other class, and playstyles.
You dont want to use alistair as a tank then theres shale, or your own party member that can be. or you can wait before doing circle tower is you want to use his other templar abilities. Or better yet use your mages  Mana clash, which is OP for enemy mages.

Point is your confusing broken thigns for stuff you just dont like or does not fit your desired playstyle.

#169
Guest_Hanz54321_*

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Still reading this thread whilst not responding to the current antangonist.

I played a tank in WoW since the game's inception. He's not even correct about tanking in MMOs.

Between his "broken english" with perfect spelling and perfect punctuation along with his complete wrongness about everything along with his insistence to keep arguing don't you all think he's trolling?

I mean if everyone wants to keep going at it with this guy by all means. I really think he's just playing the message board though and getting his jollies with every post you good people make. I'd just let the thread die but it's your forum.

#170
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greengoron89 wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...
i am done


>goes on to write three more TL;DR dissertations on why the game is oh so bah-roken


Gorgon - what's with the change in join dates?  You lose your old account or start a new one?

#171
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@dragonflight288

You can live in a broken house, you cover the hole on the roof, nail here and there, using car battery to watch TV, using plastic cover as your window, you can adept to live in the broken house. Then you say at someone passing by, "the house is not broken, see i can live in it fine, it is not broken"

@maxernst

There is less tactic in the game, the only tactic is tank draw aggro, dps back stabbing, nukers nuke, healer heal. That is the tactic for the whole game.

@seraphymon

I am talking about the vanilla game, the original, not the DLC. The DLCs are something the developer give after realizing their game is broken. So they give you Shale as a pure tank and Shale also cover the broken archery with her aura. Many other things in DLCs are to cover the broken mechanic in original game.

@Hanz54321

If my English suck, then i am sorry, English is not my language, i wonder how well you write in my language? If i am troll and trolling, what are you guys? B.i.o.d.r.o.n.e.s and biodroning?

Modifié par Nizaris1, 17 mars 2012 - 08:03 .


#172
Guest_greengoron89_*

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Hanz54321 wrote...

Gorgon - what's with the change in join dates?  You lose your old account or start a new one?


I deleted the old one a few months back and left from here - but decided to come back and re-register in light of ME3.

#173
TEWR

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Lazy Jer wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

I give you n example how broken the mechanic is


Why do I get the feeling you're not actually reading our responses to your posts?


I get the feeling he/she is trolling.

#174
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i got the feeling you guys are droning...

#175
TEWR

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I get the feeling you don't know what "broken" means in regards to gaming. You seem to equate something you dislike with it being broken.

Obviously, you don't know half of what you think you do.

We actually know what we're talking about. You, not so much.