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[Sweawm]

In the Fall Of Thessia, the Prothean VI scene:

VI: "Though I only believe the Reapers. They are only servants of the
pattern, not is master."

Shepard: "So who is the Master?" 

VI: "Unknown. Its presence is inferred rather than observed. The only certainty
is its intention: Galactic Annihilation.

This is the first time we hear about the 'Master' (Asides from the cut dialogue
from Mass Effect 2. Anyone remember the cut Cerberus recording referring to the
Masters and how they Shepard life?) Who later returns in the end as the Catalyst
(Which is mostly *******).

Mass Effect 3 didn't answer many questions we had. So if the Reapers serve the Catalyst
who runs the Cycles... then who made the Catalyst and designed the Reapers?
What race would be powerful enough to invent an AI as powerful as the Catalyst
who has the ability to enslave minds? Where did the Reapers begin and how long
as the Cycle continued for? Does this Cycle happen in other galaxies? If the
Reapers can FTL themselves in from Dark Space in two to three years, then how
long would it take for such machines to travel to another galaxy
completely? 

If Order was no maintained in all galaxies, wouldn't Chaos take over? Wouldn't
extremely powerful machine races from other galaxies begin invading? What the
hell is Synthesis anyway?

Taking on the 'It was all a dream ending' which most here on BSN propose.
Something not impossible seeing that Shepard wakes up on dark broken concrete
in the Destroy Ending, perhaps hinting that by choosing the option that would
destroy the Reapers, then he would have broken the Reaper's will.

Think about it, especially when Shepard enters the Geth Network and as Legion
explains: Everything that Shepard sees is an illusion simply to familiarize
Shepard with the sheer electronic world around him. By firing a gun, Shepard is
actually destroying Reaper connections to the Geth world.

Shepard 'familiarizes' the world around him (Hence seeing the kid, Anderson,
the Illusive Man and the Keepers harvesting) and then goes through the indoctrination,
breaking it down in his own way. Remember indoctrination is subtle and
manifests itself in many different ways. The Illusive Man was certain he was in
control and nobody else was influencing him, but as soon as Shepard convinced
him otherwise, the Illusive Man admitted the Reapers were too strong.

In the Control Ending, Shepard falls prey to exactly what the Illusive Man fell
to. He is convinced that in order to save Earth, he has to sacrifice himself in
an attempt to 'control' the Reapers. This ending shows the Reapers returning to
Dark Space, ready to execute the next Cycle again.

In the Synthesis Ending, Shepard is simply tricked into merging with the
Reapers and becoming one. This is actually possibly the worst ending you can
get.



If Shepard choses to destroy the Reapers then it’s simply just another
manifestation of what he experienced previously. He breaks Indoctrination by
defying the Reaper’s will and finally wakes up, aware of his surroundings. He
breaks the Indoctrination so a true ending can begin.

There is doubtless proof of a continuation is there.
The Master is still out there, and its intention is still galactic annihilation

When will Bioware just come and admit that there is a DLC/Sequel Continuation.
The whole thing with the Normandy escaping was likely just thrown on to make
the fake endings seem complete so that you don't need the DLC following.

Modifié par Sweawm, 11 mars 2012 - 10:28 .

[Avissel]

Nice as it may be to think otherwise, no. The endings were real, because for some reason Bioware thought those 3 ideas were good.

[Harbinger of Fun]

This gives me solace, and for that I shall believe the improbable.

[SandTrout]

formating, please. Also, you apparently double-pasted your post.

[Jirodyne]

Sweawm wrote...



In the Fall Of Thessia, the Prothean VI scene:



VI: "Though I only believe the Reapers. They are only servants of the
pattern, not is master."

Shepard: "So who is the Master?" 

VI: "Unknown. Its presence is inferred rather than observed. The only certainty
is its intention: Galactic Annihilation.



This is the first time we hear about the 'Master' (Asides from the cut dialogue
from Mass Effect 2. Anyone remember the cut Cerberus recording referring to the
Masters and how they Shepard life?) Who later returns in the end as the Catalyst
(Which is mostly *******).



Mass Effect 3 didn't answer many questions we had. So if the Reapers serve the Catalyst
who runs the Cycles... then who made the Catalyst and designed the Reapers?
What race would be powerful enough to invent an AI as powerful as the Catalyst
who has the ability to enslave minds? Where did the Reapers begin and how long
as the Cycle continued for? Does this Cycle happen in other galaxies? If the
Reapers can FTL themselves in from Dark Space in two to three years, then how
long would it take for such machines to travel to another galaxy
completely? 



If Order was no maintained in all galaxies, wouldn't Chaos take over? Wouldn't
extremely powerful machine races from other galaxies begin invading? What the
hell is Synthesis anyway?



Taking on the 'It was all a dream ending' which most here on BSN propose.
Something not impossible seeing that Shepard wakes up on dark broken concrete
in the Destroy Ending, perhaps hinting that by choosing the option that would
destroy the Reapers, then he would have broken the Reaper's will.

Think about it, especially when Shepard enters the Geth Network and as Legion
explains: Everything that Shepard sees is an illusion simply to familiarize
Shepard with the sheer electronic world around him. By firing a gun, Shepard is
actually destroying Reaper connections to the Geth world.



Shepard 'familiarizes' the world around him (Hence seeing the kid, Anderson,
the Illusive Man and the Keepers harvesting) and then goes through the indoctrination,
breaking it down in his own way. Remember indoctrination is subtle and
manifests itself in many different ways. The Illusive Man was certain he was in
control and nobody else was influencing him, but as soon as Shepard convinced
him otherwise, the Illusive Man admitted the Reapers were too strong.

In the Control Ending, Shepard falls prey to exactly what the Illusive Man fell
to. He is convinced that in order to save Earth, he has to sacrifice himself in
an attempt to 'control' the Reapers. This ending shows the Reapers returning to
Dark Space, ready to execute the next Cycle again.

In the Synthesis Ending, Shepard is simply tricked into merging with the
Reapers and becoming one. This is actually possibly the worst ending you can
get.



If Shepard choses to destroy the Reapers then it’s simply just another
manifestation of what he experienced previously. He breaks Indoctrination by
defying the Reaper’s will and finally wakes up, aware of his surroundings. He
breaks the Indoctrination so a true ending can begin.



There is doubtless proof of a continuation is there.

The Master is still out there, and its intention is still galactic annihilation.


When will Bioware just come and admit that there is a DLC/Sequel Continuation.

The whole thing with the Normandy escaping was likely just thrown on to make
the fake endings seem complete so that you don't need the DLC following.

Hmm... But it still doesn't make sense. Every ending as far as i know, has all the Mass Relays being destroyed. So the reapers can't leave or come back no matter what. I mean really, thinking about it with the mass relays being destroyed... No matter what ending you choose, all the races are trapped in the Sol system and can't leave.

As for your question, who made the Catalyst and all that, They will probably never tell you. Lets see what we know so far Cidadel was made my the reapers, and it is the Catalyst. Now the other part, the big weapon we spend all game making. It's a prothean weapon yes? WRONG! in the DLC From Ashes, you learn it wasn't created by them. It started many cycles ago, and each cycle built onto it. But here is a question. How do many cycles, 50k years apart, build a machine that uses the Catalyst, something none of them new about, and knew it was linked to the reapers? the AI said, I believe if I remember right, They were going to use the Cidadel cause of it's link to the reapers, being made by them. They called the Cidadel the Catalyst.  Then you suddenly found out, 10 seconds before the end, that ian AI, controlling everything for order because it can see a pattern, is called the Catalyst, that it knows everything about you and every other race, and won't stop you from killing it's creations....

Everything was going good in the story so far. Not even going to mention all the out of charactor and bullship choices that the skip over for being lazy. Anyways, all was good up to that AI 'Master' and the endings. Lets also not forget that, if your good and desided to save the Geth from being inslaved and whiped out, if you do the 'good' ending and destroy all the reapers, you destroy them aswell, since it whipes out all Synthetics and what not. The AI seemed like an after thought. There was mention of a master once, twice if what you pointed out earlier was in the game. They could have done with not even having him in there at all, could have had the ending with him being a huge huge HUGE ship that apears approching earth after each of the endings. But noooo. They just add in an AI, with no story at all other than he created reapers and doesn't care what you do to them.

Lets take another look at the story, something not mentioned, looked at, or thought about. the big weapon that was being made... Protheans made it but couldn't get the Catalyst, right? Hmm... Where is it? It was big, HUGE, something like that isn't just flying around evading discovery. Reapers destroy life, but not Technolagy. They wouldn't have found it and no need to destroy it. So why is it never found or mentioned before now. Even if it was destroyed, the reckaged would have been found and savaged.

Enough of that, now another part of the story. Cerberus. I never finished ME2, got board about half way through, so only know the stuff from ME3. Ok, ahem.... Cerberus is run by one man, with an idea to control the reapers, and is trying to kill humans. They will not help the universe in any ways, and infact will do everything in it's power to help the reapers end all life. .... ..... .... And people support this organization.... why? TIM I can understand, he is under reaper control. But everyone else?! Really?! Lets not forget that Sheperd is a Specter, best of the best of the best, can't shoot/use powers, to stop a single guy with a sword from ****ing him over not once, not twice, but 3 times. First time, ok he is new didn't expect him. Second time, under pressure, getting shot at alot, still new. But 3 times ****ing up and being a total noob? Are we sure this guy is Specter material, hero of earth, and winner of many battles through out the years and galaxy? Which reminds me. Cerberus, a small little group working outside of everyone, hated by everyone, and limited resources unlike everyone else who rely on eachother.... Has an army bigger than every other race, unlimited resource and manpower, and can support itself, it's staff, research bases, army's pay, weapons, ammo, repair, armor and everything else?... really.... They have enough manpower to probably single handedly fight the reapons and win.... And they want to control them instead because... because... Well, there actually is no reason to control them. They just want to.... And during all this, Sheperd is totally against them, hates them with a passion, says right to their face Controling the reapers is impossible, that they HAVE to be destroyed.... Then at the end, you get handed the option to control the reapers.... wtf....

Ok, my long rant is done... I don't even remember half of it... probably all jibberish...

[Lugaidster]

This is probably pretty a pretty accurate interpretation. Why would you survive a fall from the citadel to earth and wake up in rubble otherwise? To me it was a dream. Just like the OP said.

[Sanguine]

#JokerWasRight

[Apocsapel91]

Doubtless? No.

Possible? Yes.

[Deltateam Elcor]

 I can only imagine that they didnt have time to flesh out the real ending, though it cant possibly be anything to do with dark energy, it would still be that big mystery ending flare that confuses everyone since theres been nothing about it in the game besides a mission in ME2.

Perhaps the ending will become a quest instead to solve the problem, i dont see how they can do it other than just doing a simple kill or be killed ending. 

[ArtemisPanthar]

Funny, I had a very similar theory (or, perhaps more correctly, headcanon) and was looking over this forum trying to see if anyone else had a similar idea! It struck me as I was reading the art book that came with the Collector's Edition - it says the Child is "the face of the people of Earth whom Shepard could not save" which is not really its role at the end of the game. Sure, it could be a false lead by the book but it got me thinking...

Going back to Geth Consensus mission, Legion laid another fact on us. Upon seeing a "memory" of quarians working on a geth, Shepard is confused as to why the quarian are wearing their suits when they did not need them way back then. Legion says this is because Shepard is conjuring the images for the memory herself based on what is familiar to her - she's more familiar with quarians in masks and so sees them that way. So its curious that this "Guardian" would just so happen to take on the form of something Shepard has had on her mind a lot these days when we were just told this is how being inside an AI mind works. This Guardian may not in fact be a guardian or maker at all, but an AI - or even a Reaper.

I have a couple of theories on what this implies as well, but its all random theories with not much basis in fact. Perhaps the Guardian (the Citadel) is an ancient Reaper, or maybe something even older than them, something that has control over the other Reapers. The Crucible is essentially its "heart" and when they join, it wakes up. Perhaps the choices you make aren't actual choices, but theoretical options the Guardian gives you to gauge the state of things - can organics and synthetics live in harmony? Maybe its gauging your worth, I don't know. Whichever option you choose, you see that which Shepard expects to see given the option - the Normandy "escapes" because Shepard cannot fathom the possibility that it doesn't. So on and so forth. I could go on forever with this but I'll spare you my ramblings.

Anywho, all I'm saying is I'm with you. The endings don't add up, it feels like there's something we don't know. I dunno, the finality of the endings without complications like the above theories doesn't make any sense to me, on so many levels. Mass Effect's main draw was its universe and from both a story and marketing perspective, obliterating the main draw of your series is a stupid thing to do. Plus the developers are being very odd about the whole thing, like they know something we don't (and they would, wouldn't they?). Maybe not a perfect resolution but, I don't know, it all seems very odd to me

[MrAtomica]

Hey, if we want to get even more depressing, consider this:

Maybe the endings were presented in such a way as to be capable of falling on either side of the fence. Game releases, people love the endings - "Great! We planned them this way! Everyone wins!". Game releases, large amounts of people complain - "Well, the endings were just a dream sequence before the REAL endings."

What better way to ensure that DLC sells than to turn the game itself into a gauge of how well said content would sell? It's so genius it's almost a shame to call it nefarious (which it is).

[DeathScepter]

Mass Effect 3 do have some bad writing in it.

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

Except that the only ending that is guaranteed to be available is the Destroy ending, and Shepard is only hinted to "survive" (or "wake up") if your EMS is above 4000 or something. Having a low EMS and having to choose the Destroy ending results in Earth also being destroyed.

So no, none of it makes sense, especially since we STILL get the Normandy crash land scene after Shepard has supposedly "woken up". And we also see the Citadel blow up, too.

[revo76]

High EMS points gives access normandy to land earth safely and take the SQMates and leave, that's why we see alive shep in the of the game

[ArtemisPanthar]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

If they actually made an awful fake ending just to sell DLC (which is the obviously reason they'd do it), that's even worse than thinking they thought this ending was okay to close out a series.

Personally, I'm actually thinking more along the lines that this is something set up to be resolved in ME4 or possibly a side game. ME3 was supposedly the end of Shep's story but it could still take place in the same period. Dealing with a new hero who rises to fix the relays, reuniting everyone who was scattered.
Or a team (your squad?) rescuing Shepard from the Reaper trying to indoctrinate her (the ending being what she percieves in the AI's mind), succeeding, and blowing the Reapers away then.

Or, y'know, a patch a week from now unlocking/adding the true ending. The Illusive Man didn't want us to get it but BioWare hacked through Cerberus defenses (to make sure the true ending wasn't spoiled before the game launched in all countries). 
I don't know, wishful thinking? Just a bit? Be one hell of a stunt don't you think?

But DLC would absolutely be a bad way to go. Personally I've never had an issue with the rampant capitalism of games and their DLC. Its the company's right to add and charge for content as it pleases even if this is sometimes disappointing. BUT I'm never a fan of blackmail and requiring DLC to complete the core game is unacceptable. Supplementary content, absolutely. Mandatory? No. And its much too hollow a tactic to make money. Its different than launch day DLC, which you can argue is supplementary and made by another team, this would deliberate gouging. People wouldn't stand for it. Or shouldn't, anyway.