Aller au contenu

Photo

The ending explained


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
222 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Smiley556

Smiley556
  • Members
  • 578 messages
 The only thing I am suprised about is how many people in the mass effect player community did not understand the ending. My faith in this community is dwindling as I see them rage.

I dont understand how people dont see that the whole sequence after shepard gets blasted by harbinger is played out in his head. It is all extremely obvious and the game has been working up to it. The way indoctrination is explained over the game (making people think they are willingly helping the reapers, convinced that the reapers serve a greater cause, and uplifting the reapers as some godlike being in the subjects mind).Also the dream sequences, there are multiple dream sequences in the game so as to make it entirely possible that the ending sequence could be some hallucination too.

Now for the events itself, they are extremly clear. Harbinger, the one reaper who has been trying to indoctrinate shepard for so long, blasts shepard. He wakes up, hears whispers (Like every person that was being indoctrinated) and finds a pistol with unlimited ammo (the kind of inaccure detail one would find in a dream). He steps into the beam and gets teleported to the Citadel, the citadel which is horribly inaccurate (not recognisable, keepers cant be shot, dead human bodies litter the place in dramatic fashion which makes no sense except if imagined by shepards dispairing brain). Then theres Anderson, shepards father figure, who has no possiblity to be there (no survivors from the beam, cant have gotten passed shepard somehow). However it would make sense that he was there if it was a concotion of shepards brain, ofcourse shepard would imagine anderson there. They dont recognise the citadel, another thing commonly assosiated with dreams (if your in a dream everything makes sense, untill you start examining your surroundings and realise it totally unlogical and unrecognisable, you usually wake up not soon after). He gets to the console with anderson there, obviously imagined since anderson couldnt have gotten past shepard and according to the conversation he was only a couple seconds ahead yet you dont see him. Another figure of shepards imagination pops up out of nowhere, the illusive man. More dispair enters shepards brain as he imagines the illusive mans power, forcing him to shoot anderson. Through sheer will of force he overcomes his thoughts of the illusive man, either through breaking lose and shooting him, or by making him shoot himself.

Then comes the reaper who talks directly to shepard. You know, that reaper that presents itself as the ghost of the kid haunting shepards dream and as a godlike figure. If you read the indoctrination codex you will see indoctrinated people see reapers as godlike figures. You also clearly (or not so very clearly) hear harbingers voice in the background while the kid speaks and he refers to himself as 'we' everytime he talks about the reapers (ie. he's being pretty blatant about being a reaper). The reaper then comes up with an explenation which would make it (vaguely) seem as if the reapers serve a greater purpose (again, read the codex entry on indoctrination).
Shortly after shepard is presented with 3 choices. There is only one choice that is considered 'good' for it gives the possibility for shepard to survive and, interestingly, this is also the choice portrayed as being the worst choice according to the reaper. "you can control the reapers, just touch the lightning thing, you will die (ie. succumb to us) but everything will be alright. Or you can jump in the beam, you will die, but everything will be alright. Or you can shoot that thing, you will destroy the reapers, but it will destroy all synthetics, even you are part synthetic and you will kill the geth and your friend edi". Everything points out that the reapers Doesnt want you to make that choice, he wants shepard to willingly choose one of the other 2 options (thus completing the indoctrination of shepard).

Shepard keeps his mind cool and picks destroy the reapers, defying what the reapers wants him to do. He then imagines all that he expects to happen, and includes his hopes and wishes. His friends who were with him at the beam somehow got to safety. He imagines them stepping out of the normandy unharmed on  a distant world, giving him some peace of mind. He wakes up back in the rubble on earth, Harbinger has failed.
Now we wait for Bioware to release the end (obviously this hallucination wasnt the end) for which I am gratefull. They made sure nobody gets spoiled cos of differing release dates around the globe and the datamining of the possible endings (the end isnt in the game yet so that it cant be datamined, its brilliant really).

I sincerely hope we can stop raging now.

Modifié par Smiley556, 11 mars 2012 - 06:06 .


#2
MajorStranger

MajorStranger
  • Members
  • 1 065 messages
Somehow I don't believe this...

#3
Kloborgg711

Kloborgg711
  • Members
  • 833 messages
So.. you think the ending was indoctrination? Cool, we have a really big thread for that. It's still far from a satisfying ending, since we don't see anything that happens after indoctrination, but the bright star in the sky is that we now at least have the option of getting happy-ending DLC.
But really, you can NOT tell me that this is an "obvious" ending, and it's certainly not explained. There is quite a lot of evidence to support it now... but it took the collective embodiment of the most hardcore fans of the Mass Effect series to put it together.

#4
Dynomite15

Dynomite15
  • Members
  • 70 messages
Someone already posted this exact theory already.

#5
Dreogan

Dreogan
  • Members
  • 1 415 messages
I call this the "Grasping at straws because the writers couldn't tell a proper story" theory.

#6
malkuth74

malkuth74
  • Members
  • 362 messages
Hey look its god boy in forum form.. WOHOOOO.

#7
GBGriffin

GBGriffin
  • Members
  • 2 259 messages

Kloborgg711 wrote...

So.. you think the ending was indoctrination? Cool, we have a really big thread for that. It's still far from a satisfying ending, since we don't see anything that happens after indoctrination, but the bright star in the sky is that we now at least have the option of getting happy-ending DLC.
But really, you can NOT tell me that this is an "obvious" ending, and it's certainly not explained. There is quite a lot of evidence to support it now... but it took the collective embodiment of the most hardcore fans of the Mass Effect series to put it together.


Kloborgg,

Someone in the hallucination thread mentioned that you presented some really good anchoring points against the hallucination / indoctrination theory. Could you either post those or PM them please? As much as I truly want to buy into this theory, I want to try and stay objective about it, so I'd love to hear your thoughts.


If this is the true ending, I'll be relived, truly relieved, but issue the biggest "**** you!" ever to BioWare for toying with me like that. Even if it isn't, it forms a much better headcanon than before.

Modifié par GBGriffin, 11 mars 2012 - 06:13 .


#8
Jjacobclark

Jjacobclark
  • Members
  • 267 messages

Smiley556 wrote...

 The only thing I am suprised about is how many people in the mass effect player community did not understand the ending. My faith in this community is dwindling as I see them rage.

I dont understand how people dont see that the whole sequence after shepard gets blasted by harbinger is played out in his head. It is all extremely obvious and the game has been working up to it. The way indoctrination is explained over the game (making people think they are willingly helping the reapers, convinced that the reapers serve a greater cause, and uplifting the reapers as some godlike being in the subjects mind).Also the dream sequences, there are multiple dream sequences in the game so as to make it entirely possible that the ending sequence could be some hallucination too.

Now for the events itself, they are extremly clear. Harbinger, the one reaper who has been trying to indoctrinate shepard for so long, blasts shepard. He wakes up, hears whispers (Like every person that was being indoctrinated) and finds a pistol with unlimited ammo (the kind of inaccure detail one would find in a dream). He steps into the beam and gets teleported to the Citadel, the citadel which is horribly inaccurate (not recognisable, keepers cant be shot, dead human bodies litter the place in dramatic fashion which makes no sense except if imagined by shepards dispairing brain). Then theres Anderson, shepards father figure, who has no possiblity to be there (no survivors from the beam, cant have gotten passed shepard somehow). However it would make sense that he was there if it was a concotion of shepards brain, ofcourse shepard would imagine anderson there. They dont recognise the citadel, another thing commonly assosiated with dreams (if your in a dream everything makes sense, untill you start examining your surroundings and realise it totally unlogical and unrecognisable, you usually wake up not soon after). He gets to the console with anderson there, obviously imagined since anderson couldnt have gotten past shepard and according to the conversation he was only a couple seconds ahead yet you dont see him. Another figure of shepards imagination pops up out of nowhere, the illusive man. More dispair enters shepards brain as he imagines the illusive mans power, forcing him to shoot anderson. Through sheer will of force he overcomes his thoughts of the illusive man, either through breaking lose and shooting him, or by making him shoot himself.

Then comes the reaper who talks directly to shepard. You know, that reaper that presents itself as the ghost of the kid haunting shepards dream and as a godlike figure. If you read the indoctrination codex you will see indoctrinated people see reapers as godlike figures. You also clearly (or not so very clearly) hear harbingers voice in the background while the kid speaks and he refers to himself as 'we' everytime he talks about the reapers (ie. he's being pretty blatant about being a reaper). The reaper then comes up with an explenation which would make it (vaguely) seem as if the reapers serve a greater purpose (again, read the codex entry on indoctrination).
Shortly after shepard is presented with 3 choices. There is only one choice that is considered 'good' for it gives the possibility for shepard to survive and, interestingly, this is also the choice portrayed as being the worst choice according to the reaper. "you can control the reapers, just touch the lightning thing, you will die (ie. succumb to us) but everything will be alright. Or you can jump in the beam, you will die, but everything will be alright. Or you can shoot that thing, you will destroy the reapers, but it will destroy all synthetics, even you are part synthetic and you will kill the geth and your friend edi". Everything points out that the reapers Doesnt want you to make that choice, he wants shepard to willingly choose one of the other 2 options (thus completing the indoctrination of shepard).

Shepard keeps his mind cool and picks destroy the reapers, defying what the reapers wants him to do. He then imagines all that he expects to happen, and includes his hopes and wishes. His friends who were with him at the beam somehow got to safety. He imagines them stepping out of the normandy unharmed on  a distant world, giving him some peace of mind. He wakes up back in the rubble on earth, Harbinger has failed.
Now we wait for Bioware to release the end (obviously this hallucination wasnt the end) for which I am gratefull. They made sure nobody gets spoiled cos of differing release dates around the globe and the datamining of the possible endings (the end isnt in the game yet so that it cant be datamined, its brilliant really).

I sincerely hope we can stop raging now.

I find your smug superiority...inexplicable

#9
Sweawm

Sweawm
  • Members
  • 1 098 messages
This is exactly what happened. Just to add onto it, how the ending scene might of just made sense is explained on Rannoch when Shepard enters the Geth's world.

The dream was an illusion created by Shepard to familiarize himself with the world, something Legion did for Shepard back on Rannoch. In the Geth world, Shepard destroyed Reaper connections to the Geth network by using a gun; his illusion.

The same can be applied to the Reaper's connection. Shepard familiarized himself with the Indoctrinated dream and the third 'Destroy' ending was his exit.

#10
GBGriffin

GBGriffin
  • Members
  • 2 259 messages
The more and more I hear about this theory, my hopes get raised higher and higher. If it's true, it'll blow my damn mind.

Again, are there any arguments that would refute this idea? Preferably without breaking down into a flame war? :P

#11
Gowienczyk

Gowienczyk
  • Members
  • 172 messages
The theory does make the most sense, but it still is insulting that it is done in a way that is "cliffhanger syndrome" and just makes the gamer themselves feel like their intelligence was insulted directly.

#12
Optimus J

Optimus J
  • Members
  • 667 messages
Smiley556, you have a serious case of messiah syndrome. WTH? You take for granted a half-baked interpretation, and define that a large company as Bioware will do the thing you IMAGINE they should do?

Try to keep your feet on the ground.

By that interpretation, Shepard makes everything in his head and the Crucible and Fleet are doing what?
Whistling, and the end?
Oh geez...

Modifié par Optimus J, 11 mars 2012 - 06:20 .


#13
Deltateam Elcor

Deltateam Elcor
  • Members
  • 783 messages
Why would Bioware add in two separate videos of shepard being alive at the end of a hard choice in his mind?

Seriously, some people just never have faith in things, the reward is right in front of you, the decision is extremely deceptive on purpose, destroying the geth and EDI sounds too much for most people, but it is the right choice.

Modifié par Deltateam Elcor, 11 mars 2012 - 06:19 .


#14
GBGriffin

GBGriffin
  • Members
  • 2 259 messages

Gowienczyk wrote...

The theory does make the most sense, but it still is insulting that it is done in a way that is "cliffhanger syndrome" and just makes the gamer themselves feel like their intelligence was insulted directly.


I think they need to clear the air asap, even if it was a bombshell they planned to drop later.

#15
fern222

fern222
  • Members
  • 109 messages
very cool. Enjoyed reading it. I hope this turns out to be true.

#16
Dynomite15

Dynomite15
  • Members
  • 70 messages
 Watch bioware say "oooohhhh ya that's exactly what we mean't to do....."    *turns to writers* "Guys hurry up and write some DLC supporting this."

Bioware fans: OMG Bioware genius!

#17
LethesDeep

LethesDeep
  • Members
  • 405 messages
So the ending is really a dream brought on by indocrination and as such the war is still going on with the Reapers killing everyone because they can't be stopped by conventanal means culminating with the off-screen destruction of galactic civilization and everyone you came to know and love over the games while you live in a Reaper induced lotus-eater reality until dying from your wounds?

**** that's more depressing than accepting the endings really did happen.

EDIT: Your theory also assumes that everyone's Shep chose the destroy ending. But if someone's Shep chose Control or Synthesis then how would that impact reality? Answer: Harbinger just suceeded in completely indocrinating Shep so the player would be railroaded into helping the Reapers regardless of past choices or beliefs. They would have to fight/kill their allies and loved ones or end up being killed by said allies/ loved ones. Or commit suicide, thus failing to complete the mission and entrusting it to ever increasingly outnumbered and demoralized troopes to win the day. Either outcome is not a good way to end the trilogy because neither provides closure or a sense of accomplishment (neither does your idea and if that was the plan then why didn't they finish making the game?).

Modifié par LethesDeep, 11 mars 2012 - 06:33 .


#18
Kloborgg711

Kloborgg711
  • Members
  • 833 messages

GBGriffin wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

So.. you think the ending was indoctrination? Cool, we have a really big thread for that. It's still far from a satisfying ending, since we don't see anything that happens after indoctrination, but the bright star in the sky is that we now at least have the option of getting happy-ending DLC.
But really, you can NOT tell me that this is an "obvious" ending, and it's certainly not explained. There is quite a lot of evidence to support it now... but it took the collective embodiment of the most hardcore fans of the Mass Effect series to put it together.


Kloborgg,

Someone in the hallucination thread mentioned that you presented some really good anchoring points against the hallucination / indoctrination theory. Could you either post those or PM them please? As much as I truly want to buy into this theory, I want to try and stay objective about it, so I'd love to hear your thoughts.


If this is the true ending, I'll be relived, truly relieved, but issue the biggest "**** you!" ever to BioWare for toying with me like that. Even if it isn't, it forms a much better headcanon than before.


My overall "anchor" argument was that I didn't believe any major company would ever try to lie to its player base about the ending, especially since people could sell this game for its ending and regret that later.
I'm still not convinced Bioware planned the whole thing, but there's so many ways to justify the theory that I think even if it never crossed their minds they should go with it. It would allow them to fix the game without awkwardly retconning it. So, you could say, it has my support.

#19
Smiley556

Smiley556
  • Members
  • 578 messages
I apologise if I sounded smug, but there wasnt actually any doubt for me. As soon as the ending was over I was struck by the brilliance of biowares writing. As pointed out by Sweawm, the geth world illusion is another one of those sequences that prepares for this outcome.

We Can however rage if bioware lets us pay for the ending of the game, it should definatly be included in the price of the game.

#20
Foehamer1

Foehamer1
  • Members
  • 31 messages

Dreogan wrote...

I call this the "Grasping at straws because the writers couldn't tell a proper story" theory.


Best explanation ever. Either that or it is indoctrination which would explain the massive plot holes in the endings.

#21
Dartbeast54q

Dartbeast54q
  • Members
  • 473 messages
I'm surprised noone has made note that in a couple instances its made mention that noone knows what the core of the citadel looks like; where the keepers come from. I just assumed that I was beamed up into the core, it would explain why it wasnt recognizable. And I do see the logic behind this whole theory.

Thing is, its not a very concluding ending. This leaves me to believe that they have dlc planned to address this in some form. That being said, the ending atm still leaves such a bad taste in my mouth I cant touch my xbox or any ME games right now.

#22
malkuth74

malkuth74
  • Members
  • 362 messages
But the problem is that if this was what happened the game should not have ended? Cause you know how many people will cry foul, when they say.. HA HA we were just joking that was not the real ending, shep is indocternated.. If you buy this 40 dollar expansion the real ending and conclusion to the story will happen.

HOLLY BAT ****.. This make the LA riots look like a fun ride.

#23
GoblinSapper

GoblinSapper
  • Members
  • 945 messages
From an in-textual perspective your theory makes sense but you have to examine things from a meta-textual perspective. Why would Bioware troll it's consumers in this fashion? Why invite the bad PR from releasing the real ending later, whether for free or not? It wouldn't. Your mind is undergoing a coping strategy called 'Bargaining', it's one of the stages of grief.

#24
lasertank

lasertank
  • Members
  • 630 messages
The story OP said only happened in his head. If that's what Bioware wants to present they did a terrible, terrible job on writing, dialogue, and movie.

#25
GBGriffin

GBGriffin
  • Members
  • 2 259 messages

Kloborgg711 wrote...


My overall "anchor" argument was that I didn't believe any major company would ever try to lie to its player base about the ending, especially since people could sell this game for its ending and regret that later.
I'm still not convinced Bioware planned the whole thing, but there's so many ways to justify the theory that I think even if it never crossed their minds they should go with it. It would allow them to fix the game without awkwardly retconning it. So, you could say, it has my support.


It's a ridiculously ballsy move. If they wanted this to be the truth, I think they could have done a better job of hinting at it, but, I'll admit, I can be dense at times, especially when emotion gets in the way.

And, yeah, at this point, if they wanted to save face, even if they didn't plan it, I could see them stepping forward and supporting this theory.

I think they just need to speak out sooner rather than later.

Modifié par GBGriffin, 11 mars 2012 - 06:23 .