222 réponses à ce sujet

[fern222]

OP a question. In your theory does the indoctrenation sequence begin when the red beam hits the Hammer squad or when Shep passes out on the citadel and sees the reaper kid? I'm just wondering where is the real Illusive man in all this?

[Smiley556]

fern222 wrote...

OP a question. In your theory does the indoctrenation sequence begin when the red beam hits the Hammer squad or when Shep passes out on the citadel and sees the reaper kid? I'm just wondering where is the real Illusive man in all this?

It seem to me when shepard gets knocked out by the beam. Shepard gets knocked out by the beam on earth, then if you take the destroy ending (and enough ems) you see him waking up in concrete rubble which can only really be on earth where he got blasted by harbinger. Everything in between that would be the indoctrination sequence.

[corkey sweet]

if they plan on doing any future mass effect games that aren't prequels, there either gonna have to make up some new endings. or canonize another. the op's suggestion would fit the situation, it was all a hallucination

[Eumerin]

Foulpancake wrote...

4. There is a main control room that has never been found by any of the alien races living here for thousands of years?...doubtful

Not doubtful at all.  The main control room is where the Keepers are supposed to send the signal from.  IIRC, Vigil mentions it during his conversation with you on Ilos in ME1.  He also mentions that the Citadel is explicitly designed to keep races from finding said control room.  And we're told in ME1 that the Keepers frequently do things like remove areas and build new areas.  In short, if someone does start performing construction or demolition work that's likely to uncover the control room, then the Keepers likely work to counteract that construction/demolition to preserve the control room's secrecy.

[viperabyss]

Smiley556 wrote...

 The only thing I am suprised about is how many people in the mass effect player community did not understand the ending. My faith in this community is dwindling as I see them rage.

I dont understand how people dont see that the whole sequence after shepard gets blasted by harbinger is played out in his head. It is all extremely obvious and the game has been working up to it. The way indoctrination is explained over the game (making people think they are willingly helping the reapers, convinced that the reapers serve a greater cause, and uplifting the reapers as some godlike being in the subjects mind).Also the dream sequences, there are multiple dream sequences in the game so as to make it entirely possible that the ending sequence could be some hallucination too.

So if this is as you sad, Shepard was dreaming after he was blasted by Harbinger, then wouldn't that create even more questions your theory was supposed to answer? 

The whole point of gamers (including me) raging is because the Mass Effect 3 was marketed as the one game that will answer all of the questions and plot holes, as well as finish the epic story line first started with Mass Effect. However, what we got was an ending that does not make sense, and it doesn't answer any of the question presented in the past two games. Furthermore, it presented even more plot holes, illogical events (~20 people from Normandy somehow repopulated the new planet?), and did not even offer a proper send off for all of the characters gamers have learned and loved. 

I think it is pretty obvious this game was rushed, and they allocated much more resources to marketing that was unnecessary. I mean, look at TES: Skyrim. It is definitely not marketed as much as ME3, but people still went out and buy the game, because it was good. ME3 would've sold itself if it is awesome, and it is, right up to the last 15~20 minutes.

Modifié par viperabyss, 11 mars 2012 - 07:11 .

[Foulpancake]

Eumerin wrote...

Foulpancake wrote...

4. There is a main control room that has never been found by any of the alien races living here for thousands of years?...doubtful

Not doubtful at all.  The main control room is where the Keepers are supposed to send the signal from.  IIRC, Vigil mentions it during his conversation with you on Ilos in ME1.  He also mentions that the Citadel is explicitly designed to keep races from finding said control room.  And we're told in ME1 that the Keepers frequently do things like remove areas and build new areas.  In short, if someone does start performing construction or demolition work that's likely to uncover the control room, then the Keepers likely work to counteract that construction/demolition to preserve the control room's secrecy.

ya but something just looked...off about that room when i walked into it. Even if its a real room, which i doubt, the magical elevator of light taking shepard straight up through the shell of the citadel into space where shep shouldn't be able to breathe... just the whole thing is wrong

[Smiley556]

viperabyss wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

 The only thing I am suprised about is how many people in the mass effect player community did not understand the ending. My faith in this community is dwindling as I see them rage.

I dont understand how people dont see that the whole sequence after shepard gets blasted by harbinger is played out in his head. It is all extremely obvious and the game has been working up to it. The way indoctrination is explained over the game (making people think they are willingly helping the reapers, convinced that the reapers serve a greater cause, and uplifting the reapers as some godlike being in the subjects mind).Also the dream sequences, there are multiple dream sequences in the game so as to make it entirely possible that the ending sequence could be some hallucination too.

So if this is as you sad, Shepard was dreaming after he was blasted by Harbinger, then wouldn't that create even more questions your theory was supposed to answer? 

That is actually one of the arguments for this. Mike Gamble assured is he would not end the game with question. With all the questions still there (and more questions arising as you say) this is obviously not the end of the game, more is still to come.

[Foulpancake]

viperabyss wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

 The only thing I am suprised about is how many people in the mass effect player community did not understand the ending. My faith in this community is dwindling as I see them rage.

I dont understand how people dont see that the whole sequence after shepard gets blasted by harbinger is played out in his head. It is all extremely obvious and the game has been working up to it. The way indoctrination is explained over the game (making people think they are willingly helping the reapers, convinced that the reapers serve a greater cause, and uplifting the reapers as some godlike being in the subjects mind).Also the dream sequences, there are multiple dream sequences in the game so as to make it entirely possible that the ending sequence could be some hallucination too.

So if this is as you sad, Shepard was dreaming after he was blasted by Harbinger, then wouldn't that create even more questions your theory was supposed to answer? 

how would that create more questions? It just basically pushes the "pause" button for a minute. Nothing after the beam happened. The only valid question i've seen is the Prothean VI sensing it, and shepard was NOT indoctrinated at that time, only the groundwork had been laid. Like how the foundation of a building isn't visible from the outside (generally)

[ambroseaz]

Dreogan wrote...

I call this the "Grasping at straws because the writers couldn't tell a proper story" theory.

THIS!!!

That ending was rubbish.

[Smiley556]

I think we should stop refering to this sequence as the 'end'. Obviously if this is an indoctrination/hallucination sequence it isnt the end, it doesnt leave the end with question, because the end isnt there yet. The end is still to come.

[VerdantSF]

Smiley556 wrote...

I sincerely hope we can stop raging now.

And I sincerely hope you are right.

[Rashala]

Honestly I have to agree some....Bioware is not one to Just pull a Soprano on us... In all thier games they give us at least Some hint what happens to our players when it is over And to our companions. I cannot see them Just as I said fadeing to black mid sentence and wavign sorry folks this is the end..


Also does anyone else notice when you Finish the save does nto revert to just Before goign to earth to launch the last attack but to attackign teh Cerberus Central base.......That seems....odd to me.

[PlumPaul93]

Dynomite15 wrote...

 Watch bioware say "oooohhhh ya that's exactly what we mean't to do....."    *turns to writers* "Guys hurry up and write some DLC supporting this."

Bioware fans: OMG Bioware genius!

Yep, the endings in the game are what is intended. If they change it to something like this it wouldn't be because they planned it from the start.

Modifié par PlumPaul82393, 11 mars 2012 - 07:14 .

[viperabyss]

Smiley556 wrote...


That is actually one of the arguments for this. Mike Gamble assured is he would not end the game with question. With all the questions still there (and more questions arising as you say) this is obviously not the end of the game, more is still to come.

So effectively what he (and you) is saying is that, in order for us to have all of our questions answered, as the game was marketed, we have to go out and spend extra money for DLC? 

I'm not sure if people are still willing to pay money for contents they should've gotten with the core game.

[Smiley556]

viperabyss wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...


That is actually one of the arguments for this. Mike Gamble assured is he would not end the game with question. With all the questions still there (and more questions arising as you say) this is obviously not the end of the game, more is still to come.

So effectively what he (and you) is saying is that, in order for us to have all of our questions answered, as the game was marketed, we have to go out and spend extra money for DLC? 

I'm not sure if people are still willing to pay money for contents they should've gotten with the core game.

Oh but I totally agree with that. I think it is brilliant of them to not ship the ending initially with the game to avoid spoilers and data mining etc. But it obviously has to be included in the price of the game. Paying for it would enrage me as much as the next.

[viperabyss]

Foulpancake wrote...



how would that create more questions? It just basically pushes the "pause" button for a minute. Nothing after the beam happened. The only valid question i've seen is the Prothean VI sensing it, and shepard was NOT indoctrinated at that time, only the groundwork had been laid. Like how the foundation of a building isn't visible from the outside (generally)

In the original sequence, at least the origin of the Reapers is explained (somewhat, and very poorly). If everything after the blast from Harbinger was dream sequence, then we still wouldn't know what are Reapers, and where did they come from, isn't it? 

And if that's the case, what is the point of the dream sequence? What story is Bioware trying to tell us via the sequence? 

[Malakar1]

That's pretty the theory I came up with. I mean, the poor guy was just exhausted, under stress, wounded and any other thing you can imagine. Of course, this theory really as no flaw. I know some people love to hate Bioware and EA but really, do you think they just put all the emphasis on a kid for nothing? See the kid, the kid dies, dreams with kid then, a god like kid comes out in the last minutes of the game? It may be too complex for some people but, it makes perfect sense and, would be a brilliant ending. I don't know about the DLC thing though. don't think they would make you download the "real" end. Some people don't have their console plug to the net so they wouldn't be able to get the "real end". Anyway, time will tell. Ragers will rage and I will still keep this as my ending. Everything is pointing to it. No way its just coincidence.

Modifié par Malakar1, 11 mars 2012 - 07:26 .

[VerdantSF]

Smiley556 wrote...

viperabyss wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...


That is actually one of the arguments for this. Mike Gamble assured is he would not end the game with question. With all the questions still there (and more questions arising as you say) this is obviously not the end of the game, more is still to come.

So effectively what he (and you) is saying is that, in order for us to have all of our questions answered, as the game was marketed, we have to go out and spend extra money for DLC? 

I'm not sure if people are still willing to pay money for contents they should've gotten with the core game.

Oh but I totally agree with that. I think it is brilliant of them to not ship the ending initially with the game to avoid spoilers and data mining etc. But it obviously has to be included in the price of the game. Paying for it would enrage me as much as the next.

This.  A free DLC to be added later to avoid datamining would be nice.

[Nefelius]

Totally ridiculous. I don't think it really needs an explanation why.
But still first off do you really think that this would be a proper ending for the most anticipated game for the last few years? Imagine if Luke woke up at some point in Episode 6 and realized he's just a 12 years school boy that had fallen asleep during doing his homework.

Then there was a comment on twitter that was linked somewhere in one of the rage threads here from an dev stating "look at this on a bright side, it's not dooming the galaxy to death - it's actually freeing it from predetermined mass relay way of evolving"

And the last one the very idea of this dream theory is a pure prove of a denial stage.

Period.

[viperabyss]

Smiley556 wrote...


Oh but I totally agree with that. I think it is brilliant of them to not ship the ending initially with the game to avoid spoilers and data mining etc. But it obviously has to be included in the price of the game. Paying for it would enrage me as much as the next.

I really don't think it is a brilliant strategy to ****** off your fan by pulling tricks out of the book "douchbagery for dummies". They'll make less money now (since people who have played the game would advice other gamers to save their money), and they lose a huge chunk of their loyal customers. No matter how you cut it, it is not a sound business strategy.

And I'm not quite sure what you mean by "avoiding spoilers and data mining". Would you mind explain a little bit more?

[Smiley556]

Malakar1 wrote...

I know some people love to hate Bioware and EA but really

That is the idea I a am starting to get from some reactions. I read people disregarding this and other theories, for examply saying the citadel couldve been real (but not commenting on the rest of the story) just so they can continue hating Bioware and EA. Is it really so hard to believe they are not some evil hate machine that likes to screw us over but are just the epic story well written gaming company we love?

[jbajcar]

Nahh, sorry I don't buy it.

[Smiley556]

Nefelius wrote...

But still first off do you really think that this would be a proper ending for the most anticipated game for the last few years? 

No I do not think this would be a proper ending. For I do not think this is the ending. Nobody here has played the ending yet, it is still to come.

Modifié par Smiley556, 11 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[TheLostGenius]

Their is nothing indicating that the Soverign-class Reaper is Harbinger.

[Eumerin]

Rashala wrote...
Also does anyone else notice when you Finish the save does nto revert to just Before goign to earth to launch the last attack but to attackign teh Cerberus Central base.......That seems....odd to me.

It's because the Cerberus Base is the Point of No Return for this game.  Once you beat that mission, the Citadel falls and should no longer be available as a destination.  Since it's the central hub for the game, having a "go back" point that didn't include it would be rather useless.