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The ending explained


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#176
Smiley556

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Pamine wrote...

There's a whole thread about the ending being an hallucination, so this isn't a new concept. But it also doesn't solve anything. If it is a dream, then we didn't get a **** ending, we got no ending at all. That's not any better.


Thats question is one Ive been answering numerous times over the course of this thread. For the last time no indeed we didnt get an ending, we will get the ending completely spoiler free without the ability to have it datamined before hand (cos its not in the game yet) AFTER the final release of ME3 (it is not released everywhere yet, japan gets it the 15th). This way everybody well have a fair chance to play the game before the ending is revealed.

#177
ApplesauceBandit

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The ending should have been waking up next to Aria in Purgatory after one of shepard's drunken adventures. I would have approved of that.

#178
Leonia

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If only they had done a single, global release of the game..

#179
Mitra

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Pamine wrote...

There's a whole thread about the ending being an hallucination, so this isn't a new concept. But it also doesn't solve anything. If it is a dream, then we didn't get a **** ending, we got no ending at all. That's not any better.

No, that means that we will get our proper ending.
Just remember how all of ME3 was well done right up until that horrible last few minutes came.
I think we are getting a hell of an end! It's going to be epic if BW pull this up the way we stated here.

#180
MRedfield

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Picking the renegade options in the final TIM scene, you get to see TIM say "I wish you could see what I see, it's perfect.." as his last words. TIM thought he was doing the 'right' thing all along, and we know he was indoctrinated. He was seeing what the reapers wanted him to see, that 'controlling' them was the proper end to this war, not destroying them. That is the exact choice you have to make at the end of the game, and somehow it's the same bias despite us being told two minutes earlier that 'controlling' them was the wrong choice?

#181
Mitra

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Hey, maybe we are indoctrinated right now but we still don't know it yet!

#182
Smiley556

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Talking about indoctrination, I have to get to work. Debating this thread for 8 pages was fun, lets see if its still alive when I get back (these forums are moving insanely fast right now!).

#183
Cyruge

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That sure is a cool explanation. Deep down I actually want to believe it to be true, since that means there is a real ending somwehere that will make everyone happy.

#184
DarthOdin

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i have my doubts about this ,BUT if it is like this then it would be a fitting ending for an great game like mass effect....but i find this very unlikely to happen...

#185
Mitra

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I don't know. In ME1&2 you had the possibility to conclude them as a hero (I mean, alive one and with Li).
It seems to me that it could happen again.
I really hope I'm right.
For all of us.

#186
NomadDC

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Well, your explanation does make sence in some rate, BUT it's just too badass to throw such temporary ending into us, as we can't be sure if it's final ending or not. And for e.x. I didn't see Shep awake on earth, though I had 5k+ readiness, saved Anderson, and had to chose to destroy Reapers and my friends gets and EDI. Shepard still seemed to die.

If to take a look in your way, than I'd say, that everything after Shepard shot TIM was hallucination, and there was no kid or 3 choises, he just activated console and collapsed from blood loss.

But as I said, it's all in our heads only, currently we have only 3 bull*hit ending, and they don't make sense at all. If "if"s and "but"s were candy and nuts, we'd all had a merry cristmas.

#187
ApplesauceBandit

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I'm hoping the OP is right and BioWare releases some information on the subject in the next few weeks.

#188
iSpitfireee

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guys think back to ME2. Harbinger controlled the collector general while Harbinger was in dark space and the general was in the galactic core. Obviously Harbinger has the some high octane indoctrination powers.

#189
segfaulthunter

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Come to think of it, you returning to before the point of no return also seems to support this theory, so the people who got the pre-ending wrong and have not saved accordingly can do it again. Because, what's the point of replaying the end if all that differs are a few cinematic details? We have YouTube for that after all.

Modifié par segfaulthunter, 11 mars 2012 - 12:32 .


#190
realpokerjedi

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Believe it or not everyone has internet or the ability to download the DLC.
I know it's rare but they are out there.
Then you have to get over the hurdle of losing the business of upset fans.
Finally there are those who might not be able to afford or want to buy any new DLC.
Marketing would have never allowed this to happen, it would be too risky.
There is no way this is true, the endings in it are the ending we got.
It sucks but that's life and well horrible writing.
I do hope I am wrong though.

Modifié par realpokerjedi, 11 mars 2012 - 12:40 .


#191
segfaulthunter

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realpokerjedi wrote...

Believe it or not everyone has internet or the ability to download the DLC.
I know it's rare but they are out there.
Then you have to get over the hurdle of losing the business of upset fans.
Finally there are those who might not be able to afford or want to buy any new DLC.
Marketing would have never allowed this to happen, it would be too risky.
There is no way this is true, the endings in it are the ending we got.
It sucks but that's life and well horrible writing.
I do hope I am wrong though.

They did not seem to have minded that with "From Ashes" either.

#192
Spectre-61

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@Smiley556: Thank you so much for the explanation. I just ended ME3 and I was like:
What just happened?
Gonna play it again right now. Now I'm gonna avoid the great shiny beam :)

#193
luzburg

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i actualy hoped something like that but im not so shure now

#194
OMTING52601

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segfaulthunter wrote...

realpokerjedi wrote...

Believe it or not everyone has internet or the ability to download the DLC.
I know it's rare but they are out there.
Then you have to get over the hurdle of losing the business of upset fans.
Finally there are those who might not be able to afford or want to buy any new DLC.
Marketing would have never allowed this to happen, it would be too risky.
There is no way this is true, the endings in it are the ending we got.
It sucks but that's life and well horrible writing.
I do hope I am wrong though.


They did not seem to have minded that with "From Ashes" either.


From Ashes was a gamble and it was available day one. Whether it paid off or not is debateable(and is being debated, LOL) but the potential for profit, in that specific case, could have been enough to overcome potential loss.

Those same parameters don't apply to the situation re: ending. It's comparing two completely unrelated ideas, IMO and FWIW. 

#195
segfaulthunter

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OMTING52601 wrote...

segfaulthunter wrote...

realpokerjedi wrote...

Believe it or not everyone has internet or the ability to download the DLC.
I know it's rare but they are out there.
Then you have to get over the hurdle of losing the business of upset fans.
Finally there are those who might not be able to afford or want to buy any new DLC.
Marketing would have never allowed this to happen, it would be too risky.
There is no way this is true, the endings in it are the ending we got.
It sucks but that's life and well horrible writing.
I do hope I am wrong though.


They did not seem to have minded that with "From Ashes" either.


From Ashes was a gamble and it was available day one. Whether it paid off or not is debateable(and is being debated, LOL) but the potential for profit, in that specific case, could have been enough to overcome potential loss.

Those same parameters don't apply to the situation re: ending. It's comparing two completely unrelated ideas, IMO and FWIW. 

I was referring to the people without Internet part. The game needs online activation and there is a day-0 DLC that needs Internet access, so they don't care about that.

#196
anarch1888

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Well, this one has to say: if that will really turn out to be the case in any smallest part, then we will be witness to one of the boldest gambles in the history of gaming industry.
And it would serve as an immensely interesting study subject due to unpredictable consequences (considering the current emotional state of the community). Not that it would not be such in any other case though.
Writing here in the hope of being kept posted on the progress of the issue. :)

Modifié par anarch1888, 11 mars 2012 - 05:47 .


#197
Brass_Buckles

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The theory itself is sound, but I don't think there will be ending DLC. Anyone else try loading your final save game? You appear back on the Normandy before the final mission. The ending is not going to change. They put you in a position before the game ends so you can do other missions, like saving Thessia so you can blow it up with the Relays later no matter what you decide to do.

Sorry if I seem pessimistic about this, but... well. The evidence doesn't look good.

#198
Atraiyu Wrynn

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Smiley556 wrote...

 The only thing I am suprised about is how many people in the mass effect player community did not understand the ending. My faith in this community is dwindling as I see them rage.

I dont understand how people dont see that the whole sequence after shepard gets blasted by harbinger is played out in his head. It is all extremely obvious and the game has been working up to it. The way indoctrination is explained over the game (making people think they are willingly helping the reapers, convinced that the reapers serve a greater cause, and uplifting the reapers as some godlike being in the subjects mind).Also the dream sequences, there are multiple dream sequences in the game so as to make it entirely possible that the ending sequence could be some hallucination too.

Now for the events itself, they are extremly clear. Harbinger, the one reaper who has been trying to indoctrinate shepard for so long, blasts shepard. He wakes up, hears whispers (Like every person that was being indoctrinated) and finds a pistol with unlimited ammo (the kind of inaccure detail one would find in a dream). He steps into the beam and gets teleported to the Citadel, the citadel which is horribly inaccurate (not recognisable, keepers cant be shot, dead human bodies litter the place in dramatic fashion which makes no sense except if imagined by shepards dispairing brain). Then theres Anderson, shepards father figure, who has no possiblity to be there (no survivors from the beam, cant have gotten passed shepard somehow). However it would make sense that he was there if it was a concotion of shepards brain, ofcourse shepard would imagine anderson there. They dont recognise the citadel, another thing commonly assosiated with dreams (if your in a dream everything makes sense, untill you start examining your surroundings and realise it totally unlogical and unrecognisable, you usually wake up not soon after). He gets to the console with anderson there, obviously imagined since anderson couldnt have gotten past shepard and according to the conversation he was only a couple seconds ahead yet you dont see him. Another figure of shepards imagination pops up out of nowhere, the illusive man. More dispair enters shepards brain as he imagines the illusive mans power, forcing him to shoot anderson. Through sheer will of force he overcomes his thoughts of the illusive man, either through breaking lose and shooting him, or by making him shoot himself.

Then comes the reaper who talks directly to shepard. You know, that reaper that presents itself as the ghost of the kid haunting shepards dream and as a godlike figure. If you read the indoctrination codex you will see indoctrinated people see reapers as godlike figures. You also clearly (or not so very clearly) hear harbingers voice in the background while the kid speaks and he refers to himself as 'we' everytime he talks about the reapers (ie. he's being pretty blatant about being a reaper). The reaper then comes up with an explenation which would make it (vaguely) seem as if the reapers serve a greater purpose (again, read the codex entry on indoctrination).
Shortly after shepard is presented with 3 choices. There is only one choice that is considered 'good' for it gives the possibility for shepard to survive and, interestingly, this is also the choice portrayed as being the worst choice according to the reaper. "you can control the reapers, just touch the lightning thing, you will die (ie. succumb to us) but everything will be alright. Or you can jump in the beam, you will die, but everything will be alright. Or you can shoot that thing, you will destroy the reapers, but it will destroy all synthetics, even you are part synthetic and you will kill the geth and your friend edi". Everything points out that the reapers Doesnt want you to make that choice, he wants shepard to willingly choose one of the other 2 options (thus completing the indoctrination of shepard).

Shepard keeps his mind cool and picks destroy the reapers, defying what the reapers wants him to do. He then imagines all that he expects to happen, and includes his hopes and wishes. His friends who were with him at the beam somehow got to safety. He imagines them stepping out of the normandy unharmed on  a distant world, giving him some peace of mind. He wakes up back in the rubble on earth, Harbinger has failed.
Now we wait for Bioware to release the end (obviously this hallucination wasnt the end) for which I am gratefull. They made sure nobody gets spoiled cos of differing release dates around the globe and the datamining of the possible endings (the end isnt in the game yet so that it cant be datamined, its brilliant really).

I sincerely hope we can stop raging now.


This is completely incoherent. If choosing the control ending indoctrinates Shepard than the reapers wouldn't take off and leave the way they do when you choose it.  They would continue harvesting until all advanced organic life is wiped out. It also incinerates him, meaning what is there left to be indoctrinated? 

There is nothing at all unrecognizable about the citadel, and Anderson was on the ground trying to get there same as you.  You say no survivors from the beam.  But the beam had to fire a dozen times to stop everyone, and YOU survive it.  Your claiming absolutes for you argument that don't exist.

I think you have been so pained by the endings that you are grasping at any explaination that Bioware didn't just flip you off in the last 10 minutes of the game.

Modifié par Atraiyu Wrynn, 11 mars 2012 - 05:18 .


#199
lakdav

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I have concerns with this theory.

I dont get how the citadel being unfamiliar proves that its a hallucination. You bring up the geth concensus as example, but thats the problem. The geth concensus is built up by what is familiar in Shepards mind, thats why the quarians are masked. The Citadel should have looked more like a construct of stitched-together memories, and not something completely new.

I dont seem to recall any black foggy thingy after the Illusive man dies. I figured what we saw there was HIS corruption getting through, it kinda reminded me to the Collector Harbinger's aura...and that would actualy make sense TIM being the next collector general wannabe...

Now about what does make sense about it IMO:
The catalyst interface being the child was very wierd with the open space enviroment with gravity and air. If they come up and say that the part after the Illusive man is not real, i can totally buy that. They would have to make it so that whatever choice we made can be redeemed or not significant for the sake of having an ending for everybody. LI intervention or something like that.

Regarding the timing of the supposed patch/unlock/DLC it would be quite interesting if the face import fix would be in that too for convinience sake. Would explain the delay and silence of it.

#200
Kabraxal

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Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

 The only thing I am suprised about is how many people in the mass effect player community did not understand the ending. My faith in this community is dwindling as I see them rage.

I dont understand how people dont see that the whole sequence after shepard gets blasted by harbinger is played out in his head. It is all extremely obvious and the game has been working up to it. The way indoctrination is explained over the game (making people think they are willingly helping the reapers, convinced that the reapers serve a greater cause, and uplifting the reapers as some godlike being in the subjects mind).Also the dream sequences, there are multiple dream sequences in the game so as to make it entirely possible that the ending sequence could be some hallucination too.

Now for the events itself, they are extremly clear. Harbinger, the one reaper who has been trying to indoctrinate shepard for so long, blasts shepard. He wakes up, hears whispers (Like every person that was being indoctrinated) and finds a pistol with unlimited ammo (the kind of inaccure detail one would find in a dream). He steps into the beam and gets teleported to the Citadel, the citadel which is horribly inaccurate (not recognisable, keepers cant be shot, dead human bodies litter the place in dramatic fashion which makes no sense except if imagined by shepards dispairing brain). Then theres Anderson, shepards father figure, who has no possiblity to be there (no survivors from the beam, cant have gotten passed shepard somehow). However it would make sense that he was there if it was a concotion of shepards brain, ofcourse shepard would imagine anderson there. They dont recognise the citadel, another thing commonly assosiated with dreams (if your in a dream everything makes sense, untill you start examining your surroundings and realise it totally unlogical and unrecognisable, you usually wake up not soon after). He gets to the console with anderson there, obviously imagined since anderson couldnt have gotten past shepard and according to the conversation he was only a couple seconds ahead yet you dont see him. Another figure of shepards imagination pops up out of nowhere, the illusive man. More dispair enters shepards brain as he imagines the illusive mans power, forcing him to shoot anderson. Through sheer will of force he overcomes his thoughts of the illusive man, either through breaking lose and shooting him, or by making him shoot himself.

Then comes the reaper who talks directly to shepard. You know, that reaper that presents itself as the ghost of the kid haunting shepards dream and as a godlike figure. If you read the indoctrination codex you will see indoctrinated people see reapers as godlike figures. You also clearly (or not so very clearly) hear harbingers voice in the background while the kid speaks and he refers to himself as 'we' everytime he talks about the reapers (ie. he's being pretty blatant about being a reaper). The reaper then comes up with an explenation which would make it (vaguely) seem as if the reapers serve a greater purpose (again, read the codex entry on indoctrination).
Shortly after shepard is presented with 3 choices. There is only one choice that is considered 'good' for it gives the possibility for shepard to survive and, interestingly, this is also the choice portrayed as being the worst choice according to the reaper. "you can control the reapers, just touch the lightning thing, you will die (ie. succumb to us) but everything will be alright. Or you can jump in the beam, you will die, but everything will be alright. Or you can shoot that thing, you will destroy the reapers, but it will destroy all synthetics, even you are part synthetic and you will kill the geth and your friend edi". Everything points out that the reapers Doesnt want you to make that choice, he wants shepard to willingly choose one of the other 2 options (thus completing the indoctrination of shepard).

Shepard keeps his mind cool and picks destroy the reapers, defying what the reapers wants him to do. He then imagines all that he expects to happen, and includes his hopes and wishes. His friends who were with him at the beam somehow got to safety. He imagines them stepping out of the normandy unharmed on  a distant world, giving him some peace of mind. He wakes up back in the rubble on earth, Harbinger has failed.
Now we wait for Bioware to release the end (obviously this hallucination wasnt the end) for which I am gratefull. They made sure nobody gets spoiled cos of differing release dates around the globe and the datamining of the possible endings (the end isnt in the game yet so that it cant be datamined, its brilliant really).

I sincerely hope we can stop raging now.


This is completely incoherent. If choosing the control ending indoctrinates Shepard than the reapers wouldn't take off and leave the way they do when you choose it.  They would continue harvesting until all advanced organic life is wiped out. It also incinerates him, meaning what is there left to be indoctrinated? 

There is nothing at all unrecognizable about the citadel, and Anderson was on the ground trying to get there same as you.  You say no survivors from the beam.  But the beam had to fire a dozen times to stop everyone, and YOU survive it.  Your claiming absolutes for you argument that don't exist.

I think you have been so pained by the endings that you are grasping at any explaination that Bioware didn't just flip you off in the last 10 minutes of the game.






Reaper blast knocks Shepard out... everything from then til the special 2 seconds of the destroy ending is a battle of wills inside Shepard's mind.  That's how the theory goes.


And there is foreshadowing seemingly throughout the game... too many things match the codex/lore about indoctrination that it would be odd if it wsn' true.  The little boy is only acknowledged by Shepard, he has dreams that get progressively worse with whispers and shadows, the ending has a surreal quality, and the ending conveniently tries to guide Shepard away from the destruction path and to the two paths where the Reapers are not destroyed.