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[Hyperz]

krthomps1 wrote...

This discussion has been profoundly disappointing to me.  I was never so sure that Mass Effect was a genuine work of art as when I played through the ending.  It was beautiful, heartbreaking, climactic and intense.  But more than these things, it was meaningful.  It just simply wasn't the typical "blockbuster" ending that we have become so accustomed to.  It had weight.  It had thought.  It carried a very metaphysical bent to it.  Do any of you realize how rare that is?  What is the alternative sought by these "fans"? 

The nature of the reapers was said to be far beyond our conception of things.  The events surrounding them span millions of years and the highest stakes imaginable.  Shepard, after a series of events that left her beaten and drained beyond endurance, was forced to grapple with a humbling, heartbreaking, and impossibly deep reality.  These issues are the exclusive realm of god-entities, spanning millions of years and the fates of every civilization that has ever lived and will ever live.  This is science fiction drama as its very best. 

The nature of the catalyst (what we know of it anyway), seemed to me to be a proper embodiment of the kind of entity that could have created the reapers.  It manifested itself as a symbol of loss, a reminder of what is at stake, that has haunted Shepard throughout the war.  Being a god-like entity (in relation to Shepard), it needed to represent itself in a way understandable to a human--and likely also to serve as an anchor for Shepard's mind.  After all, it way about to be blown...It gave Shepard as much information as needed to be said, in a way she could perceptually grasp, to provide for the choice she would have to make.  Time was running out.  This god entity needed to quickly orient Shepard as best it could, to hopefully allow for a new "solution" to be created. 

The decision presented is one of a scale unprecedented for any Mass Effect player, and one fitting in a reality in which the reapers could exist.  The strangeness of it all seems right when put into context.  The details missing, the "plot holes" that people are complaining about--use your imagination people!  These are issues we should have a hard time understanding.  I think it is interesting that I have spent so much time pondering the significance of what happened, rather than having been given all the answers.  The mythical, supremely powerful and ancient machines have always meant to instill a sense of awe and mystery.  And to a certain extent, they still do.  And that is ok. 

This was a thinking man's ending, and I loved it as such. 

It's not a thinking mans ending at all, what the hell are you talking about?  

It's quite simple really.  

The repears operate under false logic.

The catalyst creates numerous plot holes that you can't explain away by putting "plot holes" in quotes.

Joker and the rest of the normandy crew are magic. 

[Harbinger of Hope]

It seems to me that the defenders of the endings are perfectly fine with over looking the glaring plot-holes and just going "Woah, that's so dark and edgy and real man."

[Biotic Sage]

krthomps1 wrote...

This discussion has been profoundly disappointing to me.  I was never so sure that Mass Effect was a genuine work of art as when I played through the ending.  It was beautiful, heartbreaking, climactic and intense.  But more than these things, it was meaningful.  It just simply wasn't the typical "blockbuster" ending that we have become so accustomed to.  It had weight.  It had thought.  It carried a very metaphysical bent to it.  Do any of you realize how rare that is?  What is the alternative sought by these "fans"? 

The nature of the reapers was said to be far beyond our conception of things.  The events surrounding them span millions of years and the highest stakes imaginable.  Shepard, after a series of events that left her beaten and drained beyond endurance, was forced to grapple with a humbling, heartbreaking, and impossibly deep reality.  These issues are the exclusive realm of god-entities, spanning millions of years and the fates of every civilization that has ever lived and will ever live.  This is science fiction drama as its very best. 

The nature of the catalyst (what we know of it anyway), seemed to me to be a proper embodiment of the kind of entity that could have created the reapers.  It manifested itself as a symbol of loss, a reminder of what is at stake, that has haunted Shepard throughout the war.  Being a god-like entity (in relation to Shepard), it needed to represent itself in a way understandable to a human--and likely also to serve as an anchor for Shepard's mind.  After all, it way about to be blown...It gave Shepard as much information as needed to be said, in a way she could perceptually grasp, to provide for the choice she would have to make.  Time was running out.  This god entity needed to quickly orient Shepard as best it could, to hopefully allow for a new "solution" to be created. 

The decision presented is one of a scale unprecedented for any Mass Effect player, and one fitting in a reality in which the reapers could exist.  The strangeness of it all seems right when put into context.  The details missing, the "plot holes" that people are complaining about--use your imagination people!  These are issues we should have a hard time understanding.  I think it is interesting that I have spent so much time pondering the significance of what happened, rather than having been given all the answers.  The mythical, supremely powerful and ancient machines have always meant to instill a sense of awe and mystery.  And to a certain extent, they still do.  And that is ok. 

This was a thinking man's ending, and I loved it as such. 

Wow, very nicely put.  As I said before, I still have yet to encounter a "flawless" work of fiction, so ME3's ending is far from "flawless" for me, but it was still one of the best if not the best science fiction endings I have ever experienced.  My close friends and I have had hours and hours of discussion and debate from this ending and from the universe as a whole.  And I get it if people weren't "emotionally satisfied," but the emotional response the game elicited from me I felt was so perfectly fitting with the tone and themes of the series.

For the people who respectfully disagree (I know it's the majority of you), I appreciate the respect and civil discourse.  For the disrespectful ragers who claim that I work for Bioware (haha I wish that would be a dream job) or the ones who spew unproductive hate instead of logically defending their views, I feel very sorry for you because Mass Effect must have really let you down in an intensely personal and deeply traumatic way.  I hope you can heal up from it, and I hope you one day get to experience a work of fiction that moves you in the way that ME3 moved me.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 11 mars 2012 - 10:54 .

[Eurhetemec]

This was a thinking man's ending, and I loved it as such. 

No, sadly it wasn't. It was in fact very much a non-thinking man's ending, it's an emotional man's ending. If you can turn your brain off entirely, and just go with the emotion, the end is fine - the heavy Christian symbolism ties in well with this (assuming you're from a vaguely Christian background).

To a thinking man, the ending is confusing and nonsensical, and the fact that it doesn't make sense is problematic.

[krthomps1]

I would also like to point out the childish nature of many of these posters.  A thoughtful discussion of the plot is perfectly acceptable.  But when you demand that a work of art be changed to your tastes...this is just ludicrous. 
When we buy a video game, or a movie, an album or novel or anything, we are buying a product of someone else's mind.  We are wanting to experience their perspective, their story.  If we are disappointed, than so be it.  You are free to ignore the artist from then on. 
To believe that you are somehow entitled to changes, though, is another thing entirely.  You cannot change a work of art without sacrificing the vision which created it in the first place.  A story must have integrity.  Though Mass Effect allows limited player choice in the way in which the story unfolds, each possibility has been carefully considered, accounted for, and written for you.  The vision is still that of the writers'.  We are simply interacting with that vision.  We are free to play the game within the constraints that have been erected for us, but the work itself is not meant to be the plaything of any random dude who thinks he knows Mass Effect better than those who created it. 
It is not the same as buying a Blu-ray player, and then finding out that it doesn't have a remote and demanding compensation.  When you buy art, you buy it knowing that you may like it or dislike it.  It is the nature of the product. 
The breadth of the entitlement mentality is truly horrifying.  Perhaps if any of you knew what it took to create something of this magnitude, the issue would become clear.  For the price of a hard day's work, we are able to experience something that took the best that a hundred talented people could give, over a course of years.  If you are going to criticize, make it constructive.  Your ideas may be a small part of what makes an even greater accomplishment possible in the future.  If your not here to help construct, if you just want to tear down, be on your way, please. 

[Biotic Sage]

Eurhetemec wrote...

This was a thinking man's ending, and I loved it as such. 

No, sadly it wasn't. It was in fact very much a non-thinking man's ending, it's an emotional man's ending. If you can turn your brain off entirely, and just go with the emotion, the end is fine - the heavy Christian symbolism ties in well with this (assuming you're from a vaguely Christian background).

To a thinking man, the ending is confusing and nonsensical, and the fact that it doesn't make sense is problematic.

Well my brain was turned on, and I have a degree in English/Film, Master's in English Ed.  So I'm pretty sure I know how to think.  It worked for me and not you, let's leave it at that.

[Eurhetemec]

krthomps1 wrote...

I would also like to point out the childish nature of many of these posters.  A thoughtful discussion of the plot is perfectly acceptable.  But when you demand that a work of art be changed to your tastes...this is just ludicrous. 
When we buy a video game, or a movie, an album or novel or anything, we are buying a product of someone else's mind.  We are wanting to experience their perspective, their story.  If we are disappointed, than so be it.  You are free to ignore the artist from then on. 
To believe that you are somehow entitled to changes, though, is another thing entirely.  You cannot change a work of art without sacrificing the vision which created it in the first place.  A story must have integrity.  Though Mass Effect allows limited player choice in the way in which the story unfolds, each possibility has been carefully considered, accounted for, and written for you.  The vision is still that of the writers'.  We are simply interacting with that vision.  We are free to play the game within the constraints that have been erected for us, but the work itself is not meant to be the plaything of any random dude who thinks he knows Mass Effect better than those who created it. 
It is not the same as buying a Blu-ray player, and then finding out that it doesn't have a remote and demanding compensation.  When you buy art, you buy it knowing that you may like it or dislike it.  It is the nature of the product. 
The breadth of the entitlement mentality is truly horrifying.  Perhaps if any of you knew what it took to create something of this magnitude, the issue would become clear.  For the price of a hard day's work, we are able to experience something that took the best that a hundred talented people could give, over a course of years.  If you are going to criticize, make it constructive.  Your ideas may be a small part of what makes an even greater accomplishment possible in the future.  If your not here to help construct, if you just want to tear down, be on your way, please. 

So basically, anyone who disagrees with you is a bad human being? That seems to be what you're saying here.

Modifié par Eurhetemec, 11 mars 2012 - 11:06 .

[NoUserNameHere]

It's a thinking man's ending.

The more you think about it, the more you wonder how any of it could possibly fit.

[Eurhetemec]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Well my brain was turned on, and I have a degree in English/Film, Master's in English Ed.  So I'm pretty sure I know how to think.  It worked for me and not you, let's leave it at that.

The problem here is that you are quoting someone positively who is essentially trolling - he isn't saying "thinking man" in an honest way, he's saying it in an insulting way. By agreeing with him, you're essentially buying into that, which if you really want a decent debate, you shouldn't. His next post made that very clear if it wasn't already.

I would agree that the ending worked for you, and not for me, but because of that, it is clearly not a "thinking man's" ending, as we are perhaps both "thinking men", no?

[krthomps1]

Eurhetemec wrote...

krthomps1 wrote...

I would also like to point out the childish nature of many of these posters.  A thoughtful discussion of the plot is perfectly acceptable.  But when you demand that a work of art be changed to your tastes...this is just ludicrous. 
When we buy a video game, or a movie, an album or novel or anything, we are buying a product of someone else's mind.  We are wanting to experience their perspective, their story.  If we are disappointed, than so be it.  You are free to ignore the artist from then on. 
To believe that you are somehow entitled to changes, though, is another thing entirely.  You cannot change a work of art without sacrificing the vision which created it in the first place.  A story must have integrity.  Though Mass Effect allows limited player choice in the way in which the story unfolds, each possibility has been carefully considered, accounted for, and written for you.  The vision is still that of the writers'.  We are simply interacting with that vision.  We are free to play the game within the constraints that have been erected for us, but the work itself is not meant to be the plaything of any random dude who thinks he knows Mass Effect better than those who created it. 
It is not the same as buying a Blu-ray player, and then finding out that it doesn't have a remote and demanding compensation.  When you buy art, you buy it knowing that you may like it or dislike it.  It is the nature of the product. 
The breadth of the entitlement mentality is truly horrifying.  Perhaps if any of you knew what it took to create something of this magnitude, the issue would become clear.  For the price of a hard day's work, we are able to experience something that took the best that a hundred talented people could give, over a course of years.  If you are going to criticize, make it constructive.  Your ideas may be a small part of what makes an even greater accomplishment possible in the future.  If your not here to help construct, if you just want to tear down, be on your way, please. 

So basically, anyone who disagrees with you is a bad human being? That seems to be what you're saying here.

???
What I'm saying is that many don't seem to understand the nature of art.  Art cannot be "perfect" for everybody.  Each work is perfect for the one who created it and, hopefully, it will deeply resonate with many more.  It is perfectly ok to be disappointed with it.  But to demand it be changed?  That destroys the nature of art. 

[WarBaby2]

Biotic Sage wrote...
Well my brain was turned on, and I have a degree in English/Film, Master's in English Ed.  So I'm pretty sure I know how to think.  It worked for me and not you, let's leave it at that.

Well, good for you. As I posted in another thread: People didn't whant a complicated, methaphysical ending... they whanted something conclusive in tone with the series. Mass Effect isn't Xenosaga.

[krthomps1]

Eurhetemec wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Well my brain was turned on, and I have a degree in English/Film, Master's in English Ed.  So I'm pretty sure I know how to think.  It worked for me and not you, let's leave it at that.

The problem here is that you are quoting someone positively who is essentially trolling - he isn't saying "thinking man" in an honest way, he's saying it in an insulting way. By agreeing with him, you're essentially buying into that, which if you really want a decent debate, you shouldn't. His next post made that very clear if it wasn't already.

I would agree that the ending worked for you, and not for me, but because of that, it is clearly not a "thinking man's" ending, as we are perhaps both "thinking men", no?

What I wrote was never meant to be a personal attack.  Saying that it was a "thinking man's" ending, simply meant that it was smart.  It could have easily devolved into a simple "we win, yaaayyy" ending.  But it didn't.  I believe it inspires thought. 
I was not implying those who disliked it were not "thinking men".  That would be ridiculous. 

[SupR G]

You can rationalize everything and you're still left with many things and images that don't make sense. For one, the god child made the reapers to prevent synthetics from ruling the galaxy. So, he uses synthetics to wipe it out and allows lesser species to grow, so they can be doomed as well. I equate this logic to saying "I don't want my house to burn down, so I burn it down every year and rebuild it from scratch"

Then many images, such as Joker flying from a relay... Liara magically being back on the Normandy, and the fact the entire fleet is stranded in the Sol system forever. Also, no closure whatsoever with Shepard and any of the characters.

All in all this leaves the game lacking in something essential - a resolution. Regardless of your choice, there is a lingering feeling that it is futile and machines will one day rise again. It's depressing, lazy, and frankly the entire god child thing is a huge middle finger to the audience.

[Dreadcall]

1) There is nothing that implies that the catalyst's statement that the created will destroy the created is limited to synthetics destroying organics. He also states that the reapers are his/it's solution, implying him/it as the reapers creators. So either he will eventually be destroyed by his own creations or he/it is wrong. If Shepard is the one destroy him/it and the reapers the only way he can be right if he/it is the creator of organic life in the galaxy, or at least humanity. In any of these cases, the whole cycle is a pointless struggle.

2) Throughout the entire game we saw the consequences of our actions over the past 2 games, in that you are correct. However, at the end you barely see those. What you do see is mostly the forces consisting of those you must gather to progress and those related to former or current squadmates. The rest is just not there, at all. Batarian, Elcor, Volus, Shadow Broker squads, whatever else, they are just a number in you war assets, nothing more.

In the ending however, we are presented with a choice that barely has anything to do with past decisions. It's pick left, right or center to decide the fate of the galaxy.

3)I don't agree with you but i also don't think BioWare got lazy. You just don't go lazy mode at the end of a project you have been working on passionately for years. It is far more probable they simply ran out of money and/or time. However much they might love their game they still had a limited budget and development time. This is also implied by the lack of work on the details steadily increasing as you near the end.

4) (as i think this should be a separate point) They are free to do whatever they want with THEIR story, however as it is the endings simply neither fit the rest of THEIR story, THEIR universe, nor THEIR game(s).

Modifié par Dreadcall, 11 mars 2012 - 11:32 .

[krthomps1]

SupR G wrote...

You can rationalize everything and you're still left with many things and images that don't make sense. For one, the god child made the reapers to prevent synthetics from ruling the galaxy. So, he uses synthetics to wipe it out and allows lesser species to grow, so they can be doomed as well. I equate this logic to saying "I don't want my house to burn down, so I burn it down every year and rebuild it from scratch"

Then many images, such as Joker flying from a relay... Liara magically being back on the Normandy, and the fact the entire fleet is stranded in the Sol system forever. Also, no closure whatsoever with Shepard and any of the characters.

All in all this leaves the game lacking in something essential - a resolution. Regardless of your choice, there is a lingering feeling that it is futile and machines will one day rise again. It's depressing, lazy, and frankly the entire god child thing is a huge middle finger to the audience.

Like I said, I think much of what the catalyst is about was deliberately kept mysterious and "unknowable", in a sense.  Who is to say that there are not perfectly good answers to these issues in the minds of the writers?  Perhaps the catalyst believed that only he (in all his godly arrogance) could control such a force.  Perhaps they did become out of control.  It is possible that their regular genocide was not exactly what was intended when they were "programmed".  The catalyst certainly didn't seem to have much power as it was.  Almost as if he were simply observing the work of his creations.  The point is that there are possible explanations if you  think about it. 
On another note, I think there is a difference between musing on the meaning of a story, and picking apart plot details.  I think it was a thoughtful ending, not because it was perfectly executed or explained, but because it forced us to think about very deep issues regarding the rights of civilizations, the mind-blowing potential of synthetic evolution over infinite amounts of time, our humble, delicate place within the infinite spectre of the universe, etc. 
For instance, after much thought, I chose to destroy the reapers, because it provided organic life the chance to write its own future.  I believed that it had that right, and that neither I nor a self-appointed god of the universe, should be able to take that right away.  I agonized for an hour afterwards on whether that was the correct choice.  No game has ever put me in that position.  I find it incredible, thoughtful, and worthy of praise. 

[Biotic Sage]

Eurhetemec wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Well my brain was turned on, and I have a degree in English/Film, Master's in English Ed.  So I'm pretty sure I know how to think.  It worked for me and not you, let's leave it at that.

The problem here is that you are quoting someone positively who is essentially trolling - he isn't saying "thinking man" in an honest way, he's saying it in an insulting way. By agreeing with him, you're essentially buying into that, which if you really want a decent debate, you shouldn't. His next post made that very clear if it wasn't already.

I would agree that the ending worked for you, and not for me, but because of that, it is clearly not a "thinking man's" ending, as we are perhaps both "thinking men", no?

Hm, you make a good point.  I was in defense mode, which I think you can probably understand since I have a certain perspective that doesn't exactly mesh with 95%+ people on these forums at the moment and have been under a lot of heat.  It wears on you when you have to constantly shrug off the personal insults in order to get to the real discussions.

I don't think he was intending to troll though.  "Thinking man" may have sounded condescending on interpretation, but his tone and sincerity made it seem like that was not his intention at all.  I've seen plenty of truly condescening people on these boards to know he isn't one of them.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 11 mars 2012 - 11:55 .

[Jadebaby]

Biotic Sage wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Nothing matters because the galaxy is, whatever you do, toasted. That's why nothing matters.
You save nothing. You preserve nothing. Everything and everyone you know is going to die alone in the night because Shepard gave up.

That's really what you came away with?  Because the Mass Relays are gone society can't rebuild?  Sure there will be a lot of death and fallout, but it's better than complete extinction at the hands of the Reapers.  I honestly don't even know what to say to you.

It doesnt matter if society survived or not, the relays r gone so everything that was mass effect is gone. I'm hurt, really hurt.
and FYI, if the reapers did 'win' it wouldnt be complete extinction, the cycle would continue. Better ending than that s*#t, but not by much.

[Biotic Sage]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

@OP

1.  If Synthetics wiping out Organics is the issue here... why didn't the Reapers just reap synthetics?

I've actually given a lot of thought to this subject already.  This isn't a point in my OP that I had a problem with people bringing up, since you're actually the first one I've seen bring it up.  This isn't an illogical dismissable point you are making.

In trying to understand the Reapers/Catalyst, I tried to start with the very basis of their way of thinking.  Imposing order onto chaos.  If they just reaped synthetics, the civilizations with the knowledge to create synthetics would still be around, and would just create more synthetics.  They could keep attempting to reap the synthetics without harming the organics, but now we're getting into a bit of chaos here.  The organics would wonder what the hell these giant reaping machines were, and would be scared of them and try to fight them.  More chaos ensues.  The Reapers wouldn't be able to completely reap all of the synthetics without a total war solution like they have in Mass Effect.  Organics would ultimately be harmed and the Reapers would be struggling to keep up with a post-singularity.  This is very chaotic.

What the Reapers/Catalyst seem to ultimately want is order.  Their solution is much more clean cut, much more in line with maintaining order.  The less evolved organic races are left untouched, evolution is predictable thanks to the Mass Relays and Citadel, and they are able to maintain a well-ordered galactic farm.  It's very inhuman and cold, very calculated.  But they are not human.  They are another being, a different form of consciousness.

[WarBaby2]

Also... the problem with games as an art form is: If you draw a picture or write a book, you do it for an audience, not together with it. The whole concept of (RP)games is that you give the player choice and move the story along those choices... that's what BW has heavily advertised the game too.

With the endings BW "provided" (forced), they took that away! Simple as that... and you can go and call it high art all you want, the players still feel betrayed, period.

Modifié par WarBaby2, 11 mars 2012 - 11:54 .

[Biotic Sage]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Nothing matters because the galaxy is, whatever you do, toasted. That's why nothing matters.
You save nothing. You preserve nothing. Everything and everyone you know is going to die alone in the night because Shepard gave up.

That's really what you came away with?  Because the Mass Relays are gone society can't rebuild?  Sure there will be a lot of death and fallout, but it's better than complete extinction at the hands of the Reapers.  I honestly don't even know what to say to you.

It doesnt matter if society survived or not, the relays r gone so everything that was mass effect is gone. I'm hurt, really hurt.
and FYI, if the reapers did 'win' it wouldnt be complete extinction, the cycle would continue. Better ending than that s*#t, but not by much.

Mass Effect exists eternally as a great science fiction trilogy.  Everything ends.  Letting go is difficult.

I'm not sure why you think innocents being destroyed simply for naturally evolving is better than society having to rebuild without the Mass Relays.  It sounds like you are just very attached to the universe.  I am too.  It's a great universe.  That's why I think they made the right decision and immortalized it before EA could milk it until it was dried up and a shell of its former self.

[krthomps1]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Eurhetemec wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Well my brain was turned on, and I have a degree in English/Film, Master's in English Ed.  So I'm pretty sure I know how to think.  It worked for me and not you, let's leave it at that.

The problem here is that you are quoting someone positively who is essentially trolling - he isn't saying "thinking man" in an honest way, he's saying it in an insulting way. By agreeing with him, you're essentially buying into that, which if you really want a decent debate, you shouldn't. His next post made that very clear if it wasn't already.

I would agree that the ending worked for you, and not for me, but because of that, it is clearly not a "thinking man's" ending, as we are perhaps both "thinking men", no?

Hm, you make a good point.  I was in defense mode, which I think you can probably understand since I have a certain perspective that doesn't exactly mesh with 95%+ people on these forums at the moment and have been under a lot of heat.  It wears on you when you have to constantly shrug off the personal insults in order to get to the real discussions.

I don't think he was intending to troll though.  "Thinking man" may have been a bit condescending in context, but his tone and sincerity made it seem like that was not his intention at all.  I've seen plenty of truly condescening people on these boards to know he isn't one of them.

Thanks, Biotic Sage.  Saying a "thinking man's *blank*" is a way of saying that it came accross as thoughtful.  I assumed it would be taken in this way because I have heard it before.  But I can see how it could have been seen as dividing those that liked the ending from those that didn't.  That wasn't my intention.  
I hope I've established that I wasn't attacking anybody, so it would be cool if we could get back to the discussion!    The fact that Bioware left some things to our imagination worked for me, but I can see how that wouldn't work for others (it didn't for my wife, for instance).  Some just wanted a clear cut finality to the end of their story.  Maybe leaving it open didn't allow for as much "closure" as people needed.  Aside from the "vagueness" of the ending, did it not inspire deep thought in you guys?

[thoaloa]

They created rules they advertised choice and they even said there wouldnt just be ending ABC but to the players it certainly seemed like endings RGB and unknown space magic from some unknown space magic kid god thing.

All the little and big things along the way matter, the journey is what got people invested but if you go and do a 180deg turn right at the end it kind of causes a mess in peoples minds.

[Dia2blo]

Why is it that unanswered questions are immediately flagged as "plot holes"? There might be some explanation for some of the things that happened. Also, people need to remember, it's a GAME. Yes, perhaps it was unrealistic for the squad and Normandy to survive, and zip from Earth to wherever, but it was done for cinematic and emotional effect I presume. You'd all be complaining a lot more if they just disappeared when you made your choice.

Also, i'm sick of people hating on those who liked the ending. It needs to stop!

[WarBaby2]

krthomps1 wrote...
Some just wanted a clear cut finality to the end of their story.  Maybe leaving it open didn't allow for as much "closure" as people needed.  Aside from the "vagueness" of the ending, did it not inspire deep thought in you guys?

Sure, but that's not what many people wanted for their story... for their Shepard... they wanted it to end like they imagnied... and BW told them they would, with multitude of possible endings...