48 réponses à ce sujet

[Sereaph502]

Hiya, I've recently completed DA:O (as in...A few hours ago?) with moderate difficulty, but unfortunatly my online profile didn't save my character correctly, so I've decided to go through again, and this time make sure my character is recorded.

The character in question was a City Elf Dual Wielding Warrior, and she played off tank (as well as main tank at times) alongside Alistair, Morrigan for CC/Healing, and Liliana for being a rogue, though I found her useless in combat...

After playing through the game and experiencing the outcome of the city elf origin, I've been wondering about the others, Human Noble in particular, due to certain ingame events.

But sorry, I'm rambling.  What would work best if I was planning to be an offtank/DPSer?  2h or DW?  Indominable with two handers sounds very helpful: becoming immune to knockdowns and all.

And what specializations would work best?  I was thinking Reaver/something.  Perhaps Reaver/Champion?  Ally buffs, enemy debuffs, and an AoE corpse heal?

In a sense, I want to build my character so that it'll be able to survive.  I'm planning to at least attempt to go for the "Kind of a big deal" achievement: 0 main character deaths.  2h seems like it would help with that, with Indominable, though DW with momentum/it's AoEs could also help with the hordes of enemies I'll encounter.

I have access to Shale and Warden's Keep, though I'd prefer to keep Alistair around.  I suppose I could live without a rogue in the party.

Any help would be apreciated!

[taine]

If you're going for the "Kind of a Big Deal" achievement, then 2h is not the way to go. Hate to say it but they are probably the worst Warrior spec. Arcane Warrior has the best overall survivability, but is stupidly cheap and overpowered, and a bit tough towards the beginning of the game due to how you have to build it. I got the achievement with a dual wielding stealthy rogue type and a lot of saving/reloading, but I'm sure it's possible with many builds and a solid healer.

[Looy]

It takes ages for your Chars to update, mine is level 18 and has finished the game, but he is displayed as level 16, just wait.



2Handers are very meh. They don't do much damage and have very few usefull talents, they also have an odd tendency to miss every single attack early on.

[ComTrav]

Dual wield does way more DPS, and has way more useful abilities, earlier.



I say this having finished a 2-handed playthrough on Hard. And sorta wishing I had gone dual-wield. The main advantages of 2h are Indomitable and the fact you can pump lots of points into strength, which gives you better armor, earlier. 2H doesn't have that many useful skills IMO compared to DW; it comes down to Pommel Strike, Critical Strike, Mighty Blow, and 2-Handed Sweep. 2-handed sweep is pretty good, but DW gets two comparable skills (DW Sweep and Whirlwind.) DW also get to do something with all those cool 1-handed weapons besides give them to a sword-and-board tank.



And by all accounts, Berserker/Reaver maxes DPS, though I found having my main character be a Champion was useful, and sorta thematic. (He is the hero, after all, he should inspire everyone around him!) If you're trying to have 0 main character deaths, it doesn't seem like you want Reaver, which gets max benefit from low hit points.

[Vicious]

Dual Wield is incredible, every ability is useful. Momentum is ridiculous, and you can couple it with Precise Striking and get a big bonus to your critical hit chance while not really losing any speed. Single target damage is fast and furious.

Also, DAO tends to throw large numbers at you, where Dual Wield shines really shines. Whirlwind hits very hard, hits twice, and can crit on both shots. And it also has a really fast animation. Sweep does the same thing. You can annihilate large packs in no time.

In comparison 2Hand is pretty garbage. When you miss you really feel it. The only way to speed up your attacks are Swift Salves [1 use items] and Blood Thirst [DLC ability that kills you as you use it.] Neither are always viable options.

Only good thing is Indomitable for protection, but high physical resistance does the same thing.

I went 2Hand one playthrough. Never ever again.


0 defeats is easy. Use poulitces a lot. And reload the second your MC dies and play the battle again.

Modifié par Vicious, 27 novembre 2009 - 07:38 .

[DrekorSilverfang]

DW is much better for DPS, combine with a death hex from a mage so all your hits crit and you are golden.

[Sereaph502]

Reason I was shying away from Berzerker was when I first played through Berzerk always seemed to detoggle itself randomly.



After getting Champion with Rally I realized some sustained abilities are bugged and detoggle upon entering a new area/cutscene =/



So perhaps Champion/Berzerker? (I do like the idea of the main character inspiring his/her allies)

[oghier]

2-H Warriors are a compromise -- they tank better than dual-wielders (indomitable), and they do better DPS than a classic sword and board. They're not optimal for either dedicated role.

[Edge32]

I've completed the game with a 2-hand warrior and am playing through again with a DW warrior. DW is much better for DPS, it's really not close.



For best results, I recommend going with Berserker. The bonus damage seems to be applied, undiminished, to each hand. Combine it with Momentum, Dual Striking, Flame/Ice weapons and Telekinetic weapons. I'm playing on Nightmare and having a pretty easy time of it, don't even have to bother with having a main tank so far.

[konfeta]

So, which one is better to combine with Momentum, Dual Striking or Precise Striking?

[Edge32]

I would say Dual Striking, my hit rate is 90% as it is, and I would rather rather hit twice as often than have a slightly higher critical hit %.

[Zilod]

i admit that i had not tried dual wield war... or better i have one but is still low level..



but personally i like a lot 2h... invul to knock down, 2 dmg+stuns, 1 dmg+armor debuff, 1 aoe dmg+knock down... all fairly cheap, the dmg seem ok, on hard i hit for around 80-100/swing



you dont get momentum but you can give haste to wyn for the same effect gettin an over 100 nominal dps with good armor penetration



my char is reaver/zerker, very bad spec choice as i discovered, reaver/champion or even reaver/templar are way better... but even with the poor spec it seem to me a veeery viable route, you just need good action regeneration and you are kinda set...



btw i'm generally the tank of my group and cept a few fights had not many troubles, even tanked quite well flameth, high dragon and various elite bosses

[Edge32]

By way of comparison, my 2h warrior accounted for 42% of the group's damage on a Normal playthrough, while my DW warrior is accounting for 70% of the group's damage on a Nightmare playthrough... and taking less damage, because he's killing things so much faster.

Being immune to knockdown/stun is a great feature, but with 100 physical resistance (and it's really easy to achieve, you have two weapons worth of enchantment slots) I don't find knockdowns or stuns to be much of an issue.

Edit: I should also note that I am purposefully not using my best weapons with the DW warrior, Starfang is gathering dust in his backpack whereas I used the 2h Starfang from the moment I got it on the other playthrough.

Modifié par Edge32, 27 novembre 2009 - 11:53 .

[Naturalus]

oghier wrote...

2-H Warriors are a compromise -- they tank better than dual-wielders (indomitable), and they do better DPS than a classic sword and board. They're not optimal for either dedicated role.

Yeah thats right Dual Wield is DPS, 2H style is hybrid while, Shield and Sword style is tanking style.

For Proplayer is propably best to chooce Shield and Sword and be only pure tank or Dual Wield for DPS but if you are like me and want to do littlebit both then 2H style is for you.

[Naturalus]

Edge32 wrote...
Being immune to knockdown/stun is a great feature, but with 100 physical resistance (and it's really easy to achieve, you have two weapons worth of enchantment slots) I don't find knockdowns or stuns to be much of an issue.

That is kind of flaw in game design that dual wield style can get 2xenchancement slots than other styles and dual wield style can use same enchancements.

But I think originally Bioware mend dual wield to be DPS style not best style for all for everything.

Modifié par Naturalus, 27 novembre 2009 - 11:55 .

[menasure]

the strength of a 2h warrior is mainly the effects in their passive skills which unfortunately you only mainly get at the high end of their skills. as a result players start to build pure strength characters because of the (probably too high) strength requirements however since you're neglecting dex then you'll miss a LOT and their passives will be useless as a result. if you manage to get their hitrate up then they're useful in all sorts of situations.



2h warriors are not useless by itself, that's if you don't forget to give them also dex. i've played a party with 2 of them: Ohgren and Sten. Ohgren was autoleveled while Sten was leveled by me early on and it turned out that Sten hitted 25% more of the time and when a 2H hits it's comparable to the damage a mage does on a single target when not talking about overpowered spells like manaclash.



however there are lots of different team combinations and if you want a tank then you're more or less obliged to have a shield and the dw option is probably somewhat easier so the options to include a 2h warrior are often slim to start with. if you do then you better put some thought into it.

[dbmccart]

taine wrote...

If you're going for the "Kind of a Big Deal" achievement, then 2h is not the way to go. Hate to say it but they are probably the worst Warrior spec. Arcane Warrior has the best overall survivability, but is stupidly cheap and overpowered, and a bit tough towards the beginning of the game due to how you have to build it. I got the achievement with a dual wielding stealthy rogue type and a lot of saving/reloading, but I'm sure it's possible with many builds and a solid healer.

Nah ****, the Arcane Warrior is beast. Capable of equalling the strongest of warriors in combat and the strongest of mages in magic. Really you get all the defensive spells your unstoppable because practically nothing can kill you.

[JJM152]

menasure wrote...

the strength of a 2h warrior is mainly the effects in their passive skills which unfortunately you only mainly get at the high end of their skills. as a result players start to build pure strength characters because of the (probably too high) strength requirements however since you're neglecting dex then you'll miss a LOT and their passives will be useless as a result. if you manage to get their hitrate up then they're useful in all sorts of situations.

2h warriors are not useless by itself, that's if you don't forget to give them also dex. i've played a party with 2 of them: Ohgren and Sten. Ohgren was autoleveled while Sten was leveled by me early on and it turned out that Sten hitted 25% more of the time and when a 2H hits it's comparable to the damage a mage does on a single target when not talking about overpowered spells like manaclash.

however there are lots of different team combinations and if you want a tank then you're more or less obliged to have a shield and the dw option is probably somewhat easier so the options to include a 2h warrior are often slim to start with. if you do then you better put some thought into it.

I just wanted to point out that warriors get 1 pt of attack for point of str for melee weapons. So,, no - pumping STR over DEX if you use swords/maces/axes doesn't cause you to lose any attack at all.

My DW (axe) warrior stopped getting dex at 36 and has almost 80 str. His attack rating is over 130.

[Zilod]

Edge32 wrote...

By way of comparison, my 2h warrior accounted for 42% of the group's damage on a Normal playthrough, while my DW warrior is accounting for 70% of the group's damage on a Nightmare playthrough... and taking less damage, because he's killing things so much faster.

Being immune to knockdown/stun is a great feature, but with 100 physical resistance (and it's really easy to achieve, you have two weapons worth of enchantment slots) I don't find knockdowns or stuns to be much of an issue.

Edit: I should also note that I am purposefully not using my best weapons with the DW warrior, Starfang is gathering dust in his backpack whereas I used the 2h Starfang from the moment I got it on the other playthrough.

well my 2h is at 56% (at hard) and i'm the mt of my group i'm using 2h starfang but that is actually not the best 2h weapon, the best one is the chasid hammer on sale on denerim also i got zerker that is quite useless (sigh  )

i gave a fast try to dual wield with respec... the dmg is indeed higher but if you get speed buff the difference is not that huge, on orange it seem they are equal, maybe 2h even a bit better

for runes is it true that you can put there a crapload of runes, but dual wield with fast attack benefit more from dmg (and paralysis  ) runes than 2h so the loss is higher

for what i saw they play a bit different... dual is straight dps, just put up all your buffs and go around killing stuff, 2 good aoe dmg are nice to have too... 2h is more active to play as it is more "cc oriented", still good dps (wih haste) and nice stuns and debuffs (and the invul to kb/stun)


btw (other poster) str help to hit as much as dex, is not that 2h have low attack because it doesnt put points into dex...

[Edge32]

Naturalus wrote...

Edge32 wrote...
Being immune to knockdown/stun is a great feature, but with 100 physical resistance (and it's really easy to achieve, you have two weapons worth of enchantment slots) I don't find knockdowns or stuns to be much of an issue.

That is kind of flaw in game design that dual wield style can get 2xenchancement slots than other styles and dual wield style can use same enchancements.

But I think originally Bioware mend dual wield to be DPS style not best style for all for everything.

I didn't say DW was the best style for everything, look at the topic. He's asking about making a DPS warrior, and for DPS 2handers won't hold a candle to DW. On the other hand, I found 2handers to be excellent at stun-locking mages... but they have no advantage over DW when it comes to defense, which is dissapointing.

menasure wrote...

the strength of a 2h warrior is mainly
the effects in their passive skills which unfortunately you only mainly
get at the high end of their skills. as a result players start to build
pure strength characters because of the (probably too high) strength
requirements however since you're neglecting dex then you'll miss a LOT
and their passives will be useless as a result. if you manage to get
their hitrate up then they're useful in all sorts of situations.

2h
warriors are not useless by itself, that's if you don't forget to give
them also dex. i've played a party with 2 of them: Ohgren and Sten.
Ohgren was autoleveled while Sten was leveled by me early on and it
turned out that Sten hitted 25% more of the time and when a 2H hits
it's comparable to the damage a mage does on a single target when not
talking about overpowered spells like manaclash.

however there
are lots of different team combinations and if you want a tank then
you're more or less obliged to have a shield and the dw option is
probably somewhat easier so the options to include a 2h warrior are
often slim to start with. if you do then you better put some thought
into it.

Str and dex both give the same 0.5 bonus to attack per point. If you raise str/dex on a 1:1 ratio you will end up with the same attack score as if you had put your points all in str... you just won't hit as hard. You'd get a better defense score, but raising dex shouldn't make you any more accurate than a pure str build. Your auto-levelled Oghren probably had a good number of points spread around other stats he doesn't need.

[Darth_Shizz]

menasure wrote...
strength requirements however since you're neglecting dex then you'll miss a LOT and their passives will be useless as a result. if you manage to get their hitrate up then they're useful in all sorts of situations.

Did you decide it was a good idea to wield a dagger (post-hotfix) in 2 hands then? Strength will add 0.5 to attack, just like dex. Difference is, where a dw warrior will split his stats between the two, a 2 hander will generally focus on the one (str). The hit rates should be effectively the same.

[Zilod]

dbmccart wrote...

taine wrote...

If you're going for the "Kind of a Big Deal" achievement, then 2h is not the way to go. Hate to say it but they are probably the worst Warrior spec. Arcane Warrior has the best overall survivability, but is stupidly cheap and overpowered, and a bit tough towards the beginning of the game due to how you have to build it. I got the achievement with a dual wielding stealthy rogue type and a lot of saving/reloading, but I'm sure it's possible with many builds and a solid healer.

Nah ****, the Arcane Warrior is beast. Capable of equalling the strongest of warriors in combat and the strongest of mages in magic. Really you get all the defensive spells your unstoppable because practically nothing can kill you.

equalling the strongest warriors... yep defensively is even better (even if it seem to miss a bit)... the strongest of mages in magic no way as it lose elemental dmg and have higher fatigue

[menasure]

Edge32 wrote...

Naturalus wrote...

Edge32 wrote...
Being immune to knockdown/stun is a great feature, but with 100 physical resistance (and it's really easy to achieve, you have two weapons worth of enchantment slots) I don't find knockdowns or stuns to be much of an issue.

That is kind of flaw in game design that dual wield style can get 2xenchancement slots than other styles and dual wield style can use same enchancements.

But I think originally Bioware mend dual wield to be DPS style not best style for all for everything.

I didn't say DW was the best style for everything, look at the topic. He's asking about making a DPS warrior, and for DPS 2handers won't hold a candle to DW. On the other hand, I found 2handers to be excellent at stun-locking mages... but they have no advantage over DW when it comes to defense, which is dissapointing.

menasure wrote...

the strength of a 2h warrior is mainly
the effects in their passive skills which unfortunately you only mainly
get at the high end of their skills. as a result players start to build
pure strength characters because of the (probably too high) strength
requirements however since you're neglecting dex then you'll miss a LOT
and their passives will be useless as a result. if you manage to get
their hitrate up then they're useful in all sorts of situations.

2h
warriors are not useless by itself, that's if you don't forget to give
them also dex. i've played a party with 2 of them: Ohgren and Sten.
Ohgren was autoleveled while Sten was leveled by me early on and it
turned out that Sten hitted 25% more of the time and when a 2H hits
it's comparable to the damage a mage does on a single target when not
talking about overpowered spells like manaclash.

however there
are lots of different team combinations and if you want a tank then
you're more or less obliged to have a shield and the dw option is
probably somewhat easier so the options to include a 2h warrior are
often slim to start with. if you do then you better put some thought
into it.

Str and dex both give the same 0.5 bonus to attack per point. If you raise str/dex on a 1:1 ratio you will end up with the same attack score as if you had put your points all in str... you just won't hit as hard. You'd get a better defense score, but raising dex shouldn't make you any more accurate than a pure str build. Your auto-levelled Oghren probably had a good number of points spread around other stats he doesn't need.

if what you are saying is true then i consider the 2H build broken. Oghren had a hit rate of 58% when i picked him up ... that is just terrible with the slow speed of hitting a 2H has in this game. sure he had a 140 hit eventually and i did *somehow -no idea what it was if it was not dex* improve the rate but that is of no concern when your party is dead before you actually hit something

Modifié par menasure, 27 novembre 2009 - 12:56 .

[Haplose]

oghier wrote...

2-H Warriors are a compromise -- they tank better than dual-wielders (indomitable) (cut)

I beg to differ. My Dex based, leather wearing dagger Rogue is far, far more survivable then Stein in Juggernought.
Of course most DD warriors probably go Str based instead... but with backstabs the Dex Rogue isn't far behind in the damage department. Might even be better, depending on party tactics.

[Edge32]

menasure wrote...

Edge32 wrote...

Naturalus wrote...

Edge32 wrote...
Being immune to knockdown/stun is a great feature, but with 100 physical resistance (and it's really easy to achieve, you have two weapons worth of enchantment slots) I don't find knockdowns or stuns to be much of an issue.

That is kind of flaw in game design that dual wield style can get 2xenchancement slots than other styles and dual wield style can use same enchancements.

But I think originally Bioware mend dual wield to be DPS style not best style for all for everything.

I didn't say DW was the best style for everything, look at the topic. He's asking about making a DPS warrior, and for DPS 2handers won't hold a candle to DW. On the other hand, I found 2handers to be excellent at stun-locking mages... but they have no advantage over DW when it comes to defense, which is dissapointing.

menasure wrote...

the strength of a 2h warrior is mainly
the effects in their passive skills which unfortunately you only mainly
get at the high end of their skills. as a result players start to build
pure strength characters because of the (probably too high) strength
requirements however since you're neglecting dex then you'll miss a LOT
and their passives will be useless as a result. if you manage to get
their hitrate up then they're useful in all sorts of situations.

2h
warriors are not useless by itself, that's if you don't forget to give
them also dex. i've played a party with 2 of them: Ohgren and Sten.
Ohgren was autoleveled while Sten was leveled by me early on and it
turned out that Sten hitted 25% more of the time and when a 2H hits
it's comparable to the damage a mage does on a single target when not
talking about overpowered spells like manaclash.

however there
are lots of different team combinations and if you want a tank then
you're more or less obliged to have a shield and the dw option is
probably somewhat easier so the options to include a 2h warrior are
often slim to start with. if you do then you better put some thought
into it.

Str and dex both give the same 0.5 bonus to attack per point. If you raise str/dex on a 1:1 ratio you will end up with the same attack score as if you had put your points all in str... you just won't hit as hard. You'd get a better defense score, but raising dex shouldn't make you any more accurate than a pure str build. Your auto-levelled Oghren probably had a good number of points spread around other stats he doesn't need.

if what you are saying is true then i consider the 2H build broken. Oghren had a hit rate of 58% when i picked him up ... that is just terrible with the slow speed of hitting a 2H has in this game. sure he had a 140 hit eventually and i did *somehow -no idea what it was if it was not dex* improve the rate but that is of no concern when your party is dead before you actually hit something

No one is saying that dex won't make you more accurate as you raise it, putting 3 points into dex will give you the exact same increase to accuracy as putting 3 points in strength.