36 réponses à ce sujet

[Keso314]

Hello BSN. I never had any reason to post here before, but in my outrage of the endings I rushed over here to complain -- Only to find that everything I had wanted to say, had already been said many times. So instead I thought it would be fun to baselessly speculate about why we got such a craptastic ending.

I'm going to base my reasoning on two axioms:

1) The endings were craptacular -- I don't think I need to defend that position.

2) Bioware knew that the endings craptulus, and they gave them to us anyway -- The people at BW are not idiots, and they are not incompetent, just look at their history, and if that's not recent enough -- look at the rest of ME3.

So why would they give us such a crapacella of an ending? Because that's the setup for the next game. Why didn't we get an epilouge, telling us what happened to the crew? Why did they end up in the same place regardless on which ending you chose? Because BW is planning to use them, and don't want to tell us how. Why must the mass relays be destroyed? Because it's central to the story they are planning to tell. The only difference is what happens with the synthetics, and at least two of the scenarios are similar enough that a little creative writing can fit it into whatever story they are working on.

What do you guys think?

[hawat333]

The endings tell you that to win a war against a force that wipes out galactic civlization every 50 000 years, you have to make sacrifices. That it's not an easy thing to do, you aren't a peasant with a stick who defeats a dragon, you're the knight in a shiny armor who gets burned and almost dead while killing the beast.
I think videogame industry didn't get used to mature endings. Most of the time it's the hero riding off in the sunset with his lover. But it wouldn't be fitting here. It had to be something rim.
There were a lot of difference, not in the videos, but in the choices. Yes, they didn't spoonfeed the outcomes, but that's a nice thing if you got at least some imagination.

The Mass Relays come up more and more frequently.
They had to be destroyed. If the geth war (a temporary peace doesn't acutally tell you that they will live in piece forever and ever after), Project Overlord, and basically any sci-fi literature told us something, that's the fact that in our current state we aren't ready to handle artificial intelligence. Our technology became more advanced than our morals, our understanding of the world did. Largely because of the mass relay. The Krogan almost wiped out themselves. Imagine that being combined with Artifcial Intelligence.
So they had to go.

The fate of the Normandy and its crew was indeed a little vague, how they got there in the first place? Those question remain to be answered.

[Travisk]

There is no next game. Since Mass Effect 1's announcement they've repeatedly said this is a trilogy.

[UnbornLeviathan]

That's the thing. I don't think Bioware -will- answer it.

That stupid 'old man telling a story in the future' thing is pretty much the nail in the coffin for the series. Games usually don't carry on after one of those epilogues.

[adawg828]

Sacrifices have to be made.

[revo76]

1. ME3 was written by other people, finale was written by someone else. (I saw couple of thread already about this so it's correct i'm staring the forum since yesterday)

2. They said the same thing for Halo, 'It'll be triology etc. etc.'' Now, they're making Halo4 with different team.

There are tons of planets, tons of races, and you thought all of them for 3 game only ? Dont be naive.

[DarkSpider88]

All previous interviews say if this is not the end of ME it is definitely the end of Shepard's story.

[PraetorianGuard]

Keso314 wrote...

The people at BW are not idiots, and they are not incompetent

You're talking about the same people that thought DA2 was of great artistic value and pretty called their fans idiots?

[Militarized]

The trilogy is Shepards story.. they've stated repeatedly that the ME universe will continue. The problem is no one WANTS to continue it with these horrible endings. No one wants to be led around by the nose again only to get kicked in the daddybags repeatedly.

They should just steal the BSN's idea that it was all a hallucination/indoctrination attempt after you get hit by Harbingers beam.. that conduit is messing with your head as you lay there. "Wake Up!" DlC comes in and gives us a real, spectacular ending. *dusts hands off* wam bam thank you mam it's fixed.

[Superninfreak]

hawat333 wrote...

The endings tell you that to win a war against a force that wipes out galactic civlization every 50 000 years, you have to make sacrifices. That it's not an easy thing to do, you aren't a peasant with a stick who defeats a dragon, you're the knight in a shiny armor who gets burned and almost dead while killing the beast.
I think videogame industry didn't get used to mature endings. Most of the time it's the hero riding off in the sunset with his lover. But it wouldn't be fitting here. It had to be something rim.
There were a lot of difference, not in the videos, but in the choices. Yes, they didn't spoonfeed the outcomes, but that's a nice thing if you got at least some imagination.

The Mass Relays come up more and more frequently.
They had to be destroyed. If the geth war (a temporary peace doesn't acutally tell you that they will live in piece forever and ever after), Project Overlord, and basically any sci-fi literature told us something, that's the fact that in our current state we aren't ready to handle artificial intelligence. Our technology became more advanced than our morals, our understanding of the world did. Largely because of the mass relay. The Krogan almost wiped out themselves. Imagine that being combined with Artifcial Intelligence.
So they had to go.

The fate of the Normandy and its crew was indeed a little vague, how they got there in the first place? Those question remain to be answered.

This result is more like saying that to kill the dragon, the knight has to die and do as much damage as the dragon did to the kingdom.

Mass Effect has always been about the idea that if you worked hard you didn't have to settle for something like this. I mean, you managed to win a suicide mission with no deaths. You could even get Wrex to agree to destroy a cure for the Genophage in the first game. Shepard has always been able to do the impossible with amazing results IF they prepare enough.

Also I don't see how blowing up every mass relay (and possibly destroying every system) helps at all with the AI issue. How does the society lacking fast travel help prevent AIs from becoming a problem?

And the peace COULD be a temporary thing, but it's still a problem that Shepard can't even list it as evidence in an argument, or ask the Catylist what their thoughts on that are.

It's also weird for the series to expect us to sympathize with the idea that AI will always war against organics when in almost every example AIs have either been allies to organics or have only opposed organics as a result of organics starting a fight. In Mass Effect the fear of synthetics causes more problems than the synthetics themselves.

[bluewolv1970]

Militarized wrote...

 No one wants to be led around by the nose again only to get kicked in the daddybags repeatedly.

 

yep

[Gibb_Shepard]

Militarized wrote...

The trilogy is Shepards story.. they've stated repeatedly that the ME universe will continue. The problem is no one WANTS to continue it with these horrible endings. No one wants to be led around by the nose again only to get kicked in the daddybags repeatedly.

They should just steal the BSN's idea that it was all a hallucination/indoctrination attempt after you get hit by Harbingers beam.. that conduit is messing with your head as you lay there. "Wake Up!" DlC comes in and gives us a real, spectacular ending. *dusts hands off* wam bam thank you mam it's fixed.

How can the universe continue when it is basically gone? Space-faring civilisation is gone. Everyone is now isolated on planets that were lucky enough to avoid the Mass Relay explosions.

[Kloborgg711]

hawat333 wrote...

The endings tell you that to win a war against a force that wipes out galactic civlization every 50 000 years, you have to make sacrifices. That it's not an easy thing to do, you aren't a peasant with a stick who defeats a dragon, you're the knight in a shiny armor who gets burned and almost dead while killing the beast.
I think videogame industry didn't get used to mature endings. Most of the time it's the hero riding off in the sunset with his lover. But it wouldn't be fitting here. It had to be something rim.
There were a lot of difference, not in the videos, but in the choices. Yes, they didn't spoonfeed the outcomes, but that's a nice thing if you got at least some imagination.

For the last time (who am I kidding), how in the hell would you call an ending where Shepard survives and gets some semblance of reward for his efforts one without "sacrifices"? I mean really, it's like you just completely ignore that trillions are already dead throughout the galaxy, and so many more refugees died when the Reapers took over the citadel. I want to keep the promises I kept repeating to my LI in every game thus far, don't tell me that that's an "immature" ending.

Regardless, YOU say it has to be grim, YOU say we need to get used to "mature" (e.g. hipster tragic) endings. Why? I've said it before and I'll say it again: my Shepard story was one of struggles and victories, not of death and sorrow. Myself and others with similar playthroughs DESERVE our heroic victory. We deserve to stand at the brim of a bright future going forward, we should not be forced to look out at the world with bleak pessimism as the galaxy that we came to love is torn apart despite any of our actions.

"
Yes, they didn't spoonfeed the outcomes, but that's a nice thing if you got at least some imagination."
No. It's not. If I wanted to imagine all the possible outcomes, they could've stopped the series at ME1. They could've rolled a black screen right after Shepard is hit by Harbinger. We want closure from an ending, not a breeding ground for conspiracy theories and futile explanations for things that just don't make sense.

[The Angry One]

hawat333 wrote...

The endings tell you that to win a war against a force that wipes out galactic civlization every 50 000 years, you have to make sacrifices. That it's not an easy thing to do, you aren't a peasant with a stick who defeats a dragon, you're the knight in a shiny armor who gets burned and almost dead while killing the beast.
I think videogame industry didn't get used to mature endings. Most of the time it's the hero riding off in the sunset with his lover. But it wouldn't be fitting here. It had to be something rim.
There were a lot of difference, not in the videos, but in the choices. Yes, they didn't spoonfeed the outcomes, but that's a nice thing if you got at least some imagination.

Everything you say here could be applied to the suicide mission in ME2.
And yet if I worked for it, I could save everyone. Explain why we can't here. Explain why we cannot earn the right to a happy ending if we truly work for it.

The Mass Relays come up more and more frequently.
They had to be destroyed. If the geth war (a temporary peace doesn't acutally tell you that they will live in piece forever and ever after), Project Overlord, and basically any sci-fi literature told us something, that's the fact that in our current state we aren't ready to handle artificial intelligence. Our technology became more advanced than our morals, our understanding of the world did. Largely because of the mass relay. The Krogan almost wiped out themselves. Imagine that being combined with Artifcial Intelligence.
So they had to go.

I brokered peace with the Geth and Quarians.
I saw the Geth Consensus.
The Geth came to defend Earth, united with organics to fight the Reapers.

Your argument is invalid.

[Militarized]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Militarized wrote...

The trilogy is Shepards story.. they've stated repeatedly that the ME universe will continue. The problem is no one WANTS to continue it with these horrible endings. No one wants to be led around by the nose again only to get kicked in the daddybags repeatedly.

They should just steal the BSN's idea that it was all a hallucination/indoctrination attempt after you get hit by Harbingers beam.. that conduit is messing with your head as you lay there. "Wake Up!" DlC comes in and gives us a real, spectacular ending. *dusts hands off* wam bam thank you mam it's fixed.

How can the universe continue when it is basically gone? Space-faring civilisation is gone. Everyone is now isolated on planets that were lucky enough to avoid the Mass Relay explosions.

I have no idea bro... I didn't say I agreed or thought it was good, I've been here since ****in Wednesday or Thursday ****ing about these endings lol. (spring break ftw). You could make the argument that they still have FTL drives... I don't even care about that argument though, they just need to remove the metaphysical bull ****. 

[Kloborgg711]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

How can the universe continue when it is basically gone? Space-faring civilisation is gone. Everyone is now isolated on planets that were lucky enough to avoid the Mass Relay explosions.

Mass Effect 4: Stargazer
Spend the final days of your long, lonely life figuring out how to breach the atmosphere so your trusted companion, "Child", can one day see the stars.

[The Angry One]

Actually no wait, hawat I just realised what you said.
You blame the mass relays for leading to artificial intelligence too early... yet the mass relays were built... by the Reapers.. at the behest of the Catalyst.. to guide us on a set path so we won't develop artificial intelligence too early.

Derp.

[staindgrey]

adawg828 wrote...

Sacrifices have to be made.

I'd agree, if it were in the context of the story.

But in this case, the sacrifice that was made was the story. The ending we were given breaks pretty much every standard rule of storytelling, which is beyond confusing considering ME3 does a near perfect job with its storytelling in the other 99.9% of the game.

The ending we're given causes everything else in the series to become a moot point, completely destroys the laws of the universe Bioware has created and in which we've become invested and fails to bring closure to a trilogy that sorely needs it. The way the endings are constructed, we're left wondering, as players, "Wait... what the hell did I do ANYTHING for?"

I'm choosing to believe that the ending doesn't actually exist. It makes me happier.

[lasertank]

The ending tells you that Bioware is tired of making games. They want to take a rest. After they got your money they will consider how to produce the next ME to earn more money from you.

[fz0gdg01]

I beg to differ with those who say there is no "next" game. Bioware's executive producer stated last year that ME3 would be the end of the Shepard story Arc and the ME4-6 would be set in the ME universe with a new storyline. That being said, I agree that there will be no next game. Bioware effectively destroyed 85% of their fan base (based on latest polls) with the endings they provided. They will simply not be able to sustain this franchise with only 15% of the fan base supporting it. That is really what I am angry about with the decisions they made.

[TheRisenStar]

If Frodo had jumped in with the ring to save Middle Earth, only to cause all vestiges of the peoples he tried to save being destroyed as a result with the fate of the Fellowship being uncertain, would you care about Middle Earth anymore?

Thank goodness Tolkien knew better.

[SandTrout]

Will there be another ME game? Almost certainly. Do I expect it to get the hype and attention that even ME1 got? No. I expect any future ME game to largely flop.

Modifié par SandTrout, 11 mars 2012 - 04:27 .

[Keso314]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Militarized wrote...

The trilogy is Shepards story.. they've stated repeatedly that the ME universe will continue. The problem is no one WANTS to continue it with these horrible endings. No one wants to be led around by the nose again only to get kicked in the daddybags repeatedly.

They should just steal the BSN's idea that it was all a hallucination/indoctrination attempt after you get hit by Harbingers beam.. that conduit is messing with your head as you lay there. "Wake Up!" DlC comes in and gives us a real, spectacular ending. *dusts hands off* wam bam thank you mam it's fixed.

How can the universe continue when it is basically gone? Space-faring civilisation is gone. Everyone is now isolated on planets that were lucky enough to avoid the Mass Relay explosions.

How? There are so many ways they could go. For example, all the alien fleets are (presumably) stranded on or near earth, so we could have a miniature scale mass effect, where they form colonies in the solar system, and all the fun adventures that would lead to. They could make a Star Trek: Voyages like game where the normandy is trying to get home, or maybe some kind of hybrid. Or maybe, since the plans for the crucible came from the Mars archives, maybe they find plans for new mass relays. Or maybe a completely new kind of alien race drops in and gives everyone super mass drive capacity. Or maybe timetravel. Don't underestimate the desire to squeeze money from a successful franchise.

[Nefelius]

hawat333 wrote...

The endings tell you that to win a war against a force that wipes out galactic civlization every 50 000 years, you have to make sacrifices. That it's not an easy thing to do, you aren't a peasant with a stick who defeats a dragon, you're the knight in a shiny armor who gets burned and almost dead while killing the beast.
I think videogame industry didn't get used to mature endings. Most of the time it's the hero riding off in the sunset with his lover. But it wouldn't be fitting here. It had to be something rim.
There were a lot of difference, not in the videos, but in the choices. Yes, they didn't spoonfeed the outcomes, but that's a nice thing if you got at least some imagination.

The Mass Relays come up more and more frequently.
They had to be destroyed. If the geth war (a temporary peace doesn't acutally tell you that they will live in piece forever and ever after), Project Overlord, and basically any sci-fi literature told us something, that's the fact that in our current state we aren't ready to handle artificial intelligence. Our technology became more advanced than our morals, our understanding of the world did. Largely because of the mass relay. The Krogan almost wiped out themselves. Imagine that being combined with Artifcial Intelligence.
So they had to go.

The fate of the Normandy and its crew was indeed a little vague, how they got there in the first place? Those question remain to be answered.

I find the whole idea of Sacrificing the galaxy in order to save the galaxy as stupid as trying to save organic from being wiped by synthetics by building synthetics that wipe organics.

Yes, the galaxy is gone, dead as dead can be, meat and tubes. The fleets are NOT STRANDED they are turned into space dust.  Arrival proved that.

Modifié par Nefelius, 11 mars 2012 - 04:32 .