179 réponses à ce sujet

[Butthead11]

IsaacShep wrote...

Butthead11 wrote...

When he commented on Liara

When you went to choras den

When he didn't hit on male shep.

When he told you he fell in love with the biotic girl

When he never mentioned anything that could imply he was gay/bi for the entire game. 

It was pretty clear he was straight, wasn't something that needed to be said explicitly. He constantly checked out women but never mentioned checking out a man or hitting on shep who seems to be the sexiest man in the galaxy and is irresitable to all comers.

How does commenting on women mean he doesn't like men? If I say "I like pizza" it doesn't automatically mean I don't like spaghetti. Based on your logic, anyone who doesn't comment on either men or women is asexual. Means Doctor Chakwas is asexual, Tali & Garrus were asexual in ME1 etc. No matter how much you complain, Kaidan never said he doesn't like men. There wasn't gay romance with him in ME1 because Bioware didn't have enough time. Now that they had, they made it happen. Ohh and what kind of oppurtunities were there exactly in ME1 for Kaidan to comment on men, expect for mShep? There was no strip clubs with guys, no turians telling stories how young employees were drooling all over a handsome drell in leather outfit, no sexy new male character joining the squad like Liara did etc. However, did you forget Horizon? And what he said to mShep?

Doctor Chakwas is an old lady, there was no need to present her sexual orientation because her character role had no need for it. Same goes for the rest you mentioned. Kaidan on the other hand was a romance option and if he was Bi then Male shep should have had equal oppurtunity to have romanced him. but instead he decides to talk about the women in his life. 

Nothing he said on Horizon gave the implication that he was gay eithier. 

[Butthead11]

Arik7 wrote...

Butthead11, you probably don't know any openly bisexual men personally.

It's not odd for bi men not to mention attraction to men at all. They usually only comment on women, unless they are with a certain kind of crowd.

I already mentioned why he would have no reason to hide it.

Bi men tend to not mention attraction to men except in certain crowds because homosexuality is a social stigma to many in our world.

But in mass effect there is no apparent hatred or distaste for homosexuality. He would have no reason to be anymore ashamed for mentiong than men he finds attractive than the women. 

[TheBlackBaron]

Ryzaki wrote...
Okay I have no idea what that phrase means. Please explain? I'm curious.

At the risk of going off topic, it's a line from Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. In the movie breaking a deal means a wheel with various punishments written on it (hard labor, gulag, forfeit goods, death, etc.) gets spun, and what it lands on is your punishment. "Complete Acquittal" is also an option. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 12 mars 2012 - 05:46 .

[Arik7]

Butthead11 wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Butthead11, you probably don't know any openly bisexual men personally.

It's not odd for bi men not to mention attraction to men at all. They usually only comment on women, unless they are with a certain kind of crowd.

I already mentioned why he would have no reason to hide it.

Bi men tend to not mention attraction to men except in certain crowds because homosexuality is a social stigma to many in our world.

But in mass effect there is no apparent hatred or distaste for homosexuality. He would have no reason to be anymore ashamed for mentiong than men he finds attractive than the women. 

Mass Effect 1 was made in 2007.  There's no question that the Mass Effect Universe is based upon today's moral standards, covering mostly today's moral issues.

Modifié par Arik7, 12 mars 2012 - 05:51 .

[Siansonea]

Butthead11 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Butthead11 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Butthead11 wrote...

he was straight in ME1

when did he say that?

When he commented on Liara

When you went to choras den

When he didn't hit on male shep.

When he told you he fell in love with the biotic girl

When he never mentioned anything that could imply he was gay/bi for the entire game. 

It was pretty clear he was straight, wasn't something that needed to be said explicitly. He constantly checked out women but never mentioned checking out a man or hitting on shep who seems to be the sexiest man in the galaxy and is irresitable to all comers. 

Oh, well, I'm sure it's not too late for BioWare to change it. OH WAIT IT IS. And you assume a lot. You know how you can tell guys are straight? They say "hey, I'm straight, no really, I'm straight. I don't like guys at all, not one bit, not ever." Actually, scratch that. You can tells guys are straight when they don't sleep with other men. It's too bad you thought you knew everything there was to know about Kaidan, but you should have known he was never going to be forthcoming.

Oh, and Kaidan doesn't make the first move with FemShep either in ME1. Go check. I'll wait.

Rude post is rather rude.

But here we go:He mentions women he finds attractive/ has a past with in every other conversation. It would seem odd that he never once mentions a male if he is Bi. Especially considering the fact that in the ME universe homosexuality is not a social stigma and gays are well accepted. So he would have no reason to hide it. But no, he dosen't once mention a male he finds attractive or anything gay. 

If there's nothing indicating a character is gay in a story it can be presumed the character was straight. No one would try to make the arguement that Jacob/TiM/Thane/ect... are bi, but simply aren't attracted to shepard so we never see that side of them. In games/books/movies characters are as they are presented. 

And also i never said Bioware should change it at this point. I just hope they don't pull a similar thing in the future. It's a cheap trick and comes off as nothing but a fan service. 

Also i did think i knew everything about kaidan after all the time i spent with him and saving his ass on virmire on my main game. So it comes as a huge shock that out of nowhere he suddenly wants to bone me. seems like he might have also had an indication that i was straight at this point after sleeping with the consort/Liara/Miranda. His transition to gay romance made no sense and was very poorly done. 

Expert on bisexuals, are ya?

[shepskisaac]

Butthead11 wrote...
Kaidan on the other hand was a romance option and if he was Bi then Male shep should have had equal oppurtunity to have romanced him. but instead he decides to talk about the women in his life.

Already told you, they didn't have time to implement it. And he comments on 1 woman in his life, that happened 15 years prior the conversation and is not there to show "look how straight I am!", you missed the point of the story. All the other comments are in response to situations that arise in the game - Liara's arrival, female strippers, Lorik's story on sexy Asari in leather outfit etc. He doesn't make off-hand comments "Ohh Shep and I totally love Asaris even though there's no reason for me to mention it!". He comments on women when there's an oppurtunity for that - like female strippers in Chora's Den. There was no club with male strippers in ME1.

Butthead11 wrote...
Nothing he said on Horizon gave the implication that he was gay eithier.

"Thinking you were gone... it was like losing a limb!" And it's bi, not gay. Check the difference in dictionary.

[Siansonea]

Butthead11 wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Butthead11, you probably don't know any openly bisexual men personally.

It's not odd for bi men not to mention attraction to men at all. They usually only comment on women, unless they are with a certain kind of crowd.

I already mentioned why he would have no reason to hide it.

Bi men tend to not mention attraction to men except in certain crowds because homosexuality is a social stigma to many in our world.

But in mass effect there is no apparent hatred or distaste for homosexuality. He would have no reason to be anymore ashamed for mentiong than men he finds attractive than the women. 

Kaidan doesn't make the first move with FemShep either. Go check. I'll wait.

Kaidan does relate his history with Rahna, a painful memory of a past love. Who happened to be female. I guess his relationships with men, if he even had any prior to Shepard, weren't as stressful for him. Kaidan's not a kiss-and-tell kind of guy, or hadn't you noticed? Rahna's story was ultimately about his confrontation with Vyrrnus anyway, Rahna was just the catalyst, and she ultimately rejected him. 

Modifié par Siansonea II, 12 mars 2012 - 05:57 .

[Siansonea]

IsaacShep wrote...

Butthead11 wrote...
Kaidan on the other hand was a romance option and if he was Bi then Male shep should have had equal oppurtunity to have romanced him. but instead he decides to talk about the women in his life.

Already told you, they didn't have time to implement it. And he comments on 1 woman in his life, that happened 15 years prior the conversation and is not there to show "look how straight I am!", you missed the point of the story. All the other comments are in response to situations that arise in the game - Liara's arrival, female strippers, Lorik's story on sexy Asari in leather outfit etc. He doesn't make off-hand comments "Ohh Shep and I totally love Asaris even though there's no reason for me to mention it!". He comments on women when there's an oppurtunity for that - like female strippers in Chora's Den. There was no club with male strippers in ME1.

Butthead11 wrote...
Nothing he said on Horizon gave the implication that he was gay eithier.

"Thinking you were gone... it was like losing a limb!" And it's bi, not gay. Check the difference in dictionary.

It's funny, bisexuality seems like a pretty simple concept to understand, but it appears that is not the case.

[magicalpoop]

So essentially I gathered that either Bioware planned from the start for this grande' reveal of Kaiden's true sexual orientation or that they were lazy.

.....Bioware lazy? NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

LOL in seriousness, I let this one slip because some new players might wanna hit on him.
But yeah as a ME1/ME2 player this sorta pissed me off since we were "Bro's" and it totally ruined it for me as well.

[Siansonea]

Okay, so I've got Butthead 11 and MagicalPoop (I see a theme developing here...) down for "not lovin' bisexual Kaidan". Any others?

[Oddlyotter]

I find it funny that people are complaining about him hitting on you out of the blue when that's all liara ever does to my femshep. But they are fine with that cause she's a hot blue chick. //eyeroll//

[TheBlackBaron]

Oddlyotter wrote...

I find it funny that people are complaining about him hitting on you out of the blue when that's all liara ever does to my femshep. But they are fine with that cause she's a hot blue chick. //eyeroll//

Liara's too naive to hit on FemShep. At least in ME1, I haven't played as FemShep in ME3 yet. 

[Nejeli]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Oddlyotter wrote...

I find it funny that people are complaining about him hitting on you out of the blue when that's all liara ever does to my femshep. But they are fine with that cause she's a hot blue chick. //eyeroll//

Liara's too naive to hit on FemShep. At least in ME1, I haven't played as FemShep in ME3 yet. 

Maybe she never hits on you, but I played a FemShep in ME1 and she may as well have been. At least I had a few general dialogues with Kaidan before he ninjamanced me, but she was infatuated from our first conversation, and she was absolutely crushed when I stuck with Kaidan even though I'd hardly even spoken to her or given her any indication that Shepard was interested in her. Kaidan's relationship wasn't handled much better (I shouldn't have to be terse with him to avoid a romance) and I would imagine Ashley's wasn't either, but Liara seemed especially bad. The only dialogues I had with her where I didn't get the sense she wanted to be my Shep's one and only were her infodumps or during general cutscenes.

On topic, I don't see the big deal. Just tell him no and it won't come up again. If it's because he's tainted~ for you or whatever, well, then, I don't know. He's not a different character just because he hits on a male!Shepard.

[Wishpig]

Oddlyotter wrote...

I find it funny that people are complaining about him hitting on you out of the blue when that's all liara ever does to my femshep. But they are fine with that cause she's a hot blue chick. //eyeroll//

Well... that makes no sense. You see, Liara can actually MATE with shepard. Can you even consider it bi when gender has no meaning too her people?

Look at the BIG picture. People are unhappy mainly because Kaidan's advances come out of NO WHERE. There's no build up and the trigger doesn't even make sense. If it was natural, if the trigger was more obvious and easy to avoid, this thread wouldn't exist. Isn't that a very positive thing?

Modifié par Wishpig, 12 mars 2012 - 10:23 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

So what is it, wine or whisky? Because I have no problem not getting my bro a bottle of wine, but it it's whisky I might have metagame Virmire next time to prevent this retcon from taking place.

[SolidBeast]

Butthead11 wrote...

Just make a sexual orientation slider damnit.


I have no problem with gay people. But i have a problem when gay people hit on me when i gave them no indication that i'm gay. I shouldn't have to be a jag off to kaidan to stop him from wanting to bone me.

"I have no problem with others' sexual orientation... but I'd like to toggle it"
..Yeah, you have a problem with it. Do you also walk around with a sign plastered to your forehead "NOT GAY - DO NOT HIT ON"? ...Something tells me you don't need to.

Arik7 wrote...

I do agree that Kaidan
should have looked for signs of mutual attraction before making a move
though....  That goes for all squad members....  Especially Liara.

Sometimes people misinterpret signs. And sometimes you just gotta make a move. Heavy risk... but the priiiiiiize...

[Ryzaki]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Okay I have no idea what that phrase means. Please explain? I'm curious.

At the risk of going off topic, it's a line from Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. In the movie breaking a deal means a wheel with various punishments written on it (hard labor, gulag, forfeit goods, death, etc.) gets spun, and what it lands on is your punishment. "Complete Acquittal" is also an option. 

Oooh thanks for the explanation.

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

So what is it, wine or whisky?
Because I have no problem not getting my bro a bottle of wine, but it
it's whisky I might have metagame Virmire next time to prevent this
retcon from taking place.

It's whiskey.

Bah just don't get him the drink. Shouldn't be drinking in the hospital anyway.

@anyone saying retcon: You keep using that word. I don't think you know what it means.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 mars 2012 - 12:29 .

[Manny_619]

Its a retcon

[MedhiaNox]

Welcome to the Hetero Education Program where we teach heteroes about thier dimwitted misconceptions about gay people: 

I comment on women all the time - and I'm gay.

Tricia Helfer - hot, and like straight guys sometimes joke about the man-crush they have on some famous actor - even though they're ONLY JOKING - I'd totally be straight for "Six" (Battlestar Galactica reference)

Now - of course I wouldn't... vajajay is gross (sorry ladies, it is) - but I can recognize that she's "hot" - and I really liked her character - so sure, I'll joke about how "I'd be straight for her."

Doesn't mean I'm a hetero in cognito doing recon as a gay man (though that could be a fantastic "roleplay" - "Oh, I've been captured... and now I'm tied to this bed!")

And who brings "bro" whiskey in the hospital and then gives them the "top" response - cause it was clearly "More than friends" to me. While the "Get up soldier!" comment sounded like what a friend would say.

Ewwww... you guys hit on Kaidan first! Gross.

Modifié par MedhiaNox, 12 mars 2012 - 02:20 .

[Teddie Sage]

^ I lol'd.

[Darkkhound64]

Teddie Sage wrote...

^ I lol'd.

I loled too, but the guy does have a good point lol

[Pappi]

Doctor Chakwas is hawt...I don't care if she is old. AHAHAH. (says the straight lady). A lot of my guy friends like her. Seriously.

[Spritus Benedictus]

Lol Medhia.

Modifié par Spritus Benedictus, 17 mars 2012 - 06:14 .

[Latiro]

I almost read through the whole thread and I'm kind of surprised that there are so many complaints about the implementation of that option in  Mass Effect 3.

From what I've heard, Kaidan was supposed to be bisexual from the start, but BioWare decided not to implement the M/M Romance in ME1 because of the complaints. That might also be why he didn't mention anything about men he fell in love with.

There is a nice comic strip about the reaction of some of the players:

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/704

[Bellendaine]

MedhiaNox wrote...

Welcome to the Hetero Education Program where we teach heteroes about thier dimwitted misconceptions about gay people: 

I comment on women all the time - and I'm gay.

Tricia Helfer - hot, and like straight guys sometimes joke about the man-crush they have on some famous actor - even though they're ONLY JOKING - I'd totally be straight for "Six" (Battlestar Galactica reference)

Now - of course I wouldn't... vajajay is gross (sorry ladies, it is) - but I can recognize that she's "hot" - and I really liked her character - so sure, I'll joke about how "I'd be straight for her."

Doesn't mean I'm a hetero in cognito doing recon as a gay man (though that could be a fantastic "roleplay" - "Oh, I've been captured... and now I'm tied to this bed!")

And who brings "bro" whiskey in the hospital and then gives them the "top" response - cause it was clearly "More than friends" to me. While the "Get up soldier!" comment sounded like what a friend would say.

Ewwww... you guys hit on Kaidan first! Gross.

Brilliant! :happy: