70 réponses à ce sujet

[wlderotter]

WeeRLegion wrote...

This game doesn't have nearly enough of either racism or slavery. Seriously, Fereldan morality seems to be fashioned after the latest modern trends. *sigh*
When I'm playing an elf, I want to FEEL the hate. Where are the grannies with their pointing fingers, the children throwing rocks? Where are the white robed lynch mobs?

Seriously, excepting the city elf origin, this game has about 0 incidents of real racism.

We needs moar racism!

well there is the reception that the common dwarf character gets on his/her return - perhaps not racist but certainly very prejudiced.

[keesio74]

Naturalus wrote...

This is how I see her attitude too. I see Leliana more of high maintenance girl that sells services only with high price and only for those who can pay best prices rather than poor street girl that feel sympathy toward servants, serfs and slaves.

This is true... but subject to change for the better. With my conversation with her, my responses were pointed and a little angry with her viewpoint. At the end of the conversation she got solemn and commented that I gave her a different perspective that she never realized and she thanked me for opening her eyes and mind (and got +2 approval).

So yeah, her past deeds and attitudes were not so great but she is willing to change (part of the reason for going to the chantry) and she growing as a person for the better. She'll aways be a bit of a "princess" character though.... but one with a good heart.

[Korva]

Rivie wrote...

I'm fairly certain that Leliana only brings up her love of footwear in one, at most two conversations outside of her banter with Morrigan.

Yes. She doesn't "go on" about such things. It's mentioned once, and she mentions missing such pretty things, but she also says there are far more important concerns. She likes to have 'em, but she can do without 'em. In a way that's rather more honest than Morrigan whose gifts are almost exclusively vain junk, despite her saying it was a good thing Flemeth curbed her vanity as a kid.

I like Leliana -- I don't love her, she's not up there with my favourite NPCs ever, but she's a realistic and interesting enough person. Though I do wonder sometimes if it's all just a facade since she was said to be so good at the "game".

[Dark83]

The fact that she's willing to reflect on and change her views is very commendable, certainly.

[andysdead]

it's a well-known fact that all women have a preoccupation with shoes. i don't see this as being out of the ordinary.

[Barrendall]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

So you're making excuses for a genuinely "evil" character, but not for one with a few solid character "flaws"?

I make no excuses, I was just stating I like Morrigan and understand her. I despise people who seem to think they are noble and favored by all that is good and right but deep down aren't noble at all. (And I mean noble in the sense of righteous)

And I never said Lelianna wasn't a fleshed out character, just that she sickens me.

I completely respect this because it's the way I feel about Zev.  It's almost like it's a personality clash.  The characters were written very well but everyone has their own preferences to who they want to party with and why.  Maybe it's a testament to the writing that each of us (the gamers) have such reactions to each individual npc.

Modifié par Barrendall111, 27 novembre 2009 - 08:07 .

[Malkut]

While I recognize that Morrigan is probably the more fleshed-out of the two, I had a lot more fun talking to Leliana.



And I'd pick her over Morrigan, who needs a shrink, not a boyfriend.

[gsmithcat]

My character is really into shoes, so she got along great with Leliana.

[macayle]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

I may be the only one, but Lelian actually makes me dread any cutscene with her.
Her love of pretty shoes to me speaks of decadence, but that's not what I can't stand about her.
She seems like a spoiled princess sort of girl, which is very odd since she's a spy.
Especially her discussion with my elven character which placed her out of my "slightly annoying character" category to my "disgusting, weak and ammoral" sort of character. Oh I know that she sticks up for any good maker fearing soul, but anyone who thinks slavery is pleasant should have very bad things happen to them. She doesn't stick up for people when it counts, is overly fond of her crooked slaving empire of a country, and whines about her shoes when you're trying to keep the world from being destroyed.
The real kicker is I was starting to think she wasn't that bad up until that comment about the elf slaves. I understand it's popular right now to hate elves for some weird reason, but slavery is just wrong. How did she get this elitist? Especially since she's a rogue.

there is a famouse quote  by a French Nobleman ( his name escapes me) from the middle ages.  He came upon a small walled town in revolt  he gave his word that if they let him into the town and gave up the revolt leaders he would spare them.  They did  he then ordered his men to kill everyone in the town.  When reminded he had given his word to spare them he replied " what does it matter they are not people."  If you listen to her concerning elves  she sees them are being happy and cared for in their lives as servants. 

[macayle]

Taerda wrote...

DPSSOC wrote... As for the people hating elf thing it most likely stems from the fact that elves in most fantasy settings are generally depicted as arrogant, elitist, and superior.  That they're generally good guys doesn't take away from the desire to pull them down off their high horse and beat them to death.

Everyone wants to be a Legolas :innocent:

or was it RA Salvadore's character Drzzit?

it is both

try LOTRO  hardly a day wil go by that you do not see 3 o4 four LLegolas lagolas legoles legollas  running around   Lets not forget all the Dark Elfs  from EQ and EQII  that wanted to play as good alined and would complain in the forums that the game had them as evil

[macayle]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Err...
I may have missed something, but where does Leliana consider slavery pleasant ? 0_o

she actually doesn't  she thinks that elves as servants and as second class citizens is socialy correct  if you are an elf pc "you" have a response  where you call it slavery  and if you do that it makes her start to reconsider her viewpoint
and how she was brought up

[MassEffect762]

Leliana may be a little nutty and childish but shes a good person with charm and class. She is good to go in my books.

[macayle]

and do not forget "and she bites"

Modifié par macayle, 27 novembre 2009 - 08:51 .

[Axterix]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

I may be the only one, but Lelian actually makes me dread any cutscene with her.
Her love of pretty shoes to me speaks of decadence, but that's not what I can't stand about her.

I like that she has an outside interest though, something a bit frivilous.  I also like how she brings out the best in others, well, maybe besides Morrigan, but especially Sten, that softee.

The real kicker is I was starting to think she wasn't that bad up until that comment about the elf slaves. I understand it's popular right now to hate elves for some weird reason, but slavery is just wrong. How did she get this elitist? Especially since she's a rogue.

Unless I'm mistaken, her reply to the accusation of them being slaves is that they are serfs, not slaves.  In her mind, the two are different.  Slavery is ownership.  Serfdom is a two way relationship, in theory, anyway.  And she also points out that many of the elves do quite well, some even have human and elvish servants of their own.

I do think she runs in higher class circles, for the most part, doesn't slum much.  Hence her love of finery and her more idealized view of serfdom and the lives of the elvish servants.  The trusted servant of a powerful lord could weild quite a bit of power.  She also tends to see the best in things.

[Rhys Cordelle]

I think it's my own personal bias regarding religion that makes me dislike Liliana and favor Morrigan.



I think Morrigan is only 'evil' in the sense that she was raised in isolation and thus has little concept of social justice. But it's not as if she causes people pain just for kicks. She has pretty much always been on her own so she believes everyone should look after themselves.



I think I would've loved Liliana if she was the tough girl that she's portrayed as in Sacred Ashes.

[Maria Caliban]

Twitchmonkey wrote...
Aye, I think she does what she feels is right and moral, but she is a product of her environment, not a revolutionary paragon of human rights.

Still has to be better than the "I'm evil because it's cool" Morrigan.

Indeed. The problem isn't that she's a bad character, but that she doesn't conform to modern ideas of right and wrong. This actually makes her a better character.

[TuringPoint]

Leliana likes slavery? This is new to me. My impression is that she is willing to think a little unconventionally, and stand against society, but is basically a product of her healthy and hale upbringing.



I think my least favorite part of Dragon Age is the religion, which mirrors modern religion but makes far less sense and strikes me as inconsistent.

[dannythefool]

Axterix wrote...
Unless I'm mistaken, her reply to the accusation of them being slaves is that they are serfs, not slaves.  In her mind, the two are different.  Slavery is ownership.  Serfdom is a two way relationship, in theory, anyway.  And she also points out that many of the elves do quite well, some even have human and elvish servants of their own.

It's her own background too, she was raised by a servant to an Orlesian noble and has very fond memories for that person. Which might affect her idea of what being a serf means.

[Rhys Cordelle]

Alocormin wrote...

I think my least favorite part of Dragon Age is the religion, which mirrors modern religion but makes far less sense and strikes me as inconsistent.

This was my favorite part of Dragon Age because it felt authentic to me. Just look at Christianity. It's a hodge podge of different belief systems, centered around a character who is claimed to have a direct connection to the creator of everything.

[Elanareon]

I just hate the squealing! Damn when she talks to you and then suddenly there's a high-pitch sound... DAMN!! I hate those...

[Midnight Reyn]

SPOILERS follow.

I always thought that Leliana's 'girly girl' mannerisms and discussion of flippant things was her way of separating herself from all of the bad things that had happened to her, and all of the bad things she had done. Her shield, if that makes sense. A way for her to compartmentalise and put to the side the things that affected her the most.

All of the love interest characters seem to use different coping mechanisms in order to protect themselves from anything potentially confronting. Alistair has humor, Morrigan has aloofness/coldness and Zevran has flirtation.

In the case of Leliana, Alistair mentions that he sees sadness in her eyes when she's unaware that anyone is looking at her. She herself mentions that her prior life as a bard had her doing some very questionable things, and during one of her Marjolaine-related conversations she admits to having been tortured, stopping short of admitting she was raped. I think her 'silliness' is just a way for her to gather up all the bad things that have happened to her and push them away from her - to lessen their impact on who she is and how she lives her life. She closes herself off from those things, and uses the girliness as a way to escape.

I'm not saying her girliness is something she fakes, or that it is not a part of her - but I do think it's her way of coping with the things that have happened in her life.

Modifié par Midnight Reyn, 28 novembre 2009 - 11:10 .