222 réponses à ce sujet

[brad2240]

I played a Soldier once that took Marksman and put no points in ARush. Used GPR + Incendiary Burst. It did a lot of damage, so I consider it viable. It's just a different way of doing things you've done too many times already.

Sentinel choosing another defense power makes sense because you can stack it for more DR than any other class. It's also good in that it's a passive power, turn it on and forget it mostly. Sentinel has plenty of other good powers to be using your cooldowns on.

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk wrote...

There are a few things I never liked doing with bonus powers.
...
I prefer to think of bonus powers as filling in a gap that the class doesn't fill.
...

So many choices. Why choose a similiar power?

Depends on what you want to do and how you feel about the default powers versus the bonus powers.

For example, choosing Barrier on your Sentinel can stack damage protection with Tech Armor, and at rank 5 for both skills you can increase your power damage. The extra power damage is good for Warp, Throw, Overload, and Lift Grenade.

Lash and Slam give you slightly different takes on Pull. Slam may be better than Pull in some cases.
Same with Reave versus Warp, or even Dark Channel versus Warp. Warp can be dodged, while Reave and Dark Channel cannot be dodged. Reave can also hit multiple enemies at once (rank 4 Radius) and Dark Channel can skip to another enemy when the first enemy is dead. Reave and Dark Channel also have different properties that may make them more attractive.

Marksman offers a different playstyle than Adrenaline Rush.

You can take Energy Drain over Overload if you do not want to invest in Overload right away.

[TevinterMagister]

If you want something unique why not pick Dominate, only Shepard can bring that to the fight. Exception being Morinth in ME2, and only after Samara's missions which means you're halfway through the game anyway. I picked it for my canon Sentinel Shep for that reason and that Sentinels don't really need bonus powers.

[capn233]

If we change the discussion to simply viable, then I would say I haven't found a character that isn't viable yet.

Some are a lot less optimal than others though.

Modifié par capn233, 03 janvier 2013 - 03:50 .

[Abraham_uk]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

There are a few things I never liked doing with bonus powers.
...
I prefer to think of bonus powers as filling in a gap that the class doesn't fill.
...

So many choices. Why choose a similiar power?

Depends on what you want to do and how you feel about the default powers versus the bonus powers.

For example, choosing Barrier on your Sentinel can stack damage protection with Tech Armor, and at rank 5 for both skills you can increase your power damage. The extra power damage is good for Warp, Throw, Overload, and Lift Grenade.

Lash and Slam give you slightly different takes on Pull. Slam may be better than Pull in some cases.
Same with Reave versus Warp, or even Dark Channel versus Warp. Warp can be dodged, while Reave and Dark Channel cannot be dodged. Reave can also hit multiple enemies at once (rank 4 Radius) and Dark Channel can skip to another enemy when the first enemy is dead. Reave and Dark Channel also have different properties that may make them more attractive.

Marksman offers a different playstyle than Adrenaline Rush.

You can take Energy Drain over Overload if you do not want to invest in Overload right away.

Feel free to point out my hypocracy.

I did find stasis to be very useful on my engineer.
Those phantoms are an absolute pain.

[brad2240]

capn233 wrote...

If we change the discussion to simply viable, then I would say I haven't found a character that isn't viable yet.

Some are a lot less optimal than others though.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on which classes are less optimal, and why. Just curious as to how your opinion might differ from my own.

[Abraham_uk]

brad2240 wrote...

capn233 wrote...

If we change the discussion to simply viable, then I would say I haven't found a character that isn't viable yet.

Some are a lot less optimal than others though.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on which classes are less optimal, and why. Just curious as to how your opinion might differ from my own.

I am curious too.

I would say that any hybrid class (vanguards, infiltrators and sentinels) have an advantage over pure classes.


Adepts mostly do biotic explosions and ragdolling, but get gunned down easily.
Engineers do tech combos, have a few distractions but also get gunned down easily.
Soldiers are fairly squishy, and rely very heavily on weapons.

Infiltrator is great at stealth, has a few tech powers.
Vanguard is great at flanking, and their charge/nova combo is devastating.
Sentinel has some additional hit points from tech armour (not as much as ME2) but they also have the warp throw combo, overload and some of the best grenades around.


All six classes are amazing.
Adept is my personal favourite, but even I have to admit that the hybrid biotic classes easily trump the adept.

[Abraham_uk]

If you want an easy time on Insanity though, bring Liara and Javik (or Liara and Kaidan or Kaidan and Javik).
Biotic explosions are a fantastic way to clear a battlefield quickly.
What class is best to bring on insanity? Doesn't really matter. Bring two biotic squadmates and keep them alive.




If however you loathe biotics there is a fantastic tech alternative.


Bring Tali with her sabotage specked for tech vulnerability.

Now bring one of the following squadmates:

• Kaidan
• EDI
• Garrus

Now let Tali setup the tech burst with sabotage.
Wait for the backfire.
Then detonate with a squadmate's tech power (such as overload, incinerate, energy drain)

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 03 janvier 2013 - 04:22 .

[brad2240]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Adept is my personal favourite, but even I have to admit that the hybrid biotic classes easily trump the adept.

If biotic explosions are your thing, I don't think any class does it better than an Adept. They're certainly the fastest and have the most ways of seting up and detonating. And they can do it without being tied to any particular squadmate(s).

[capn233]

brad2240 wrote...

I'd like to hear your thoughts on which classes are less optimal, and why. Just curious as to how your opinion might differ from my own.

Characters, not necessarily classes.  Although there is obviously a class hierarchy in a broad sense with Vanguard at the top followed by Infiltrator and Sentinel, then the pure classes at the bottom.

What I was talking about was character design within classes.  I have played some oddball characters and they are all more than viable on Insanity, even if they aren't optimal.  Examples:

Shockwave Shotgun Adept - with the bonus of not investing in Throw or Pull... very squishy for a CQC character early game, Shockwave is much less optimal than Throw (really it is not worth using except as a gimmick).

4 Gun Cryo Soldier - c/d isn't all that great, Cryo is significantly weaker than Incendiary Ammo (especially post patch)

Vanilla Infiltrator - Used Mantis, Katana, Predator and didn't use the bonus power all that often.  Weaker than an Energy Drain infiltrator, especially one that uses good guns

No Charge Novaguard - Shouldn't require much explanation.  If you Nova cancel (cheese), then you can exploit immunity frames, but when you use Nova for real you have to wait for shield regen.

ME1 Infiltrator - sort of like the Vanilla infiltrator.  It works but using Cloak would work better.  Marksman is very limited early game when you don't have any weapons that really take advantage of it (unless you have DLC).

Flare Sentinel - Personally I think Flare is practically a waste on "caster" class.  If you bypass the c/d with Cloak it makes some sense.  Early game it seems like Throw makes so much more sense.  I actually put this character on hold and started a game of ME2.  I may or may not finish him, although he is still workable.  Defensive Matrix or Barrier are probably the two best bonuses for a Sentinel, with Reave or Energy Drain as the next best.

Drone Engineers - I haven't actually played this style myself, but know people that have.  Sabotage is the best power on an Engineer, followed by Overload and Incinerate.  Hence, I would say if you utilize your cooldowns on those powers you are in better shape.  In fact, starting with Sabotage and gun play works decently alone.

There are bound to be countless others.  Essentially unless you do something completely drastic, like not invest any skill points, you can still beat the game, even if you will be slower.  I am sure you could still beat it with no skills, although it would be rather tedious.  There is only one timed fight I can think of off the top of my head, which is Sur'Kesh... and you would have weapons and the squad to assist anyway.

[brad2240]

capn233 wrote...

What I was talking about was character design within classes. 

I misunderstood, but thank you for taking the time to answer.

I've played around with a couple odd builds that are loosly similar to yours. I did a chargless caster Vanguard using Reave, hoping I could combine the bio bombs of an Adept with the Incendiary spam of a Soldier. It held my interest long enough to finish the game but it wasn't spectacular.

I did half a play-thru with a Cryo Revenant Soldier (carry over from ME2) before getting bored and switching to Incendiary.

I tried a drone Engineer but was so bored after 2 missions I respecced back to my standard caster style. That's one build which is just not for me.

Clearly you are better at thinking and playing outside the box than I am.

[Abraham_uk]

I like this discussion.

Is there already threads dedicated to weird and wonderful builds.
I want to see builds that aren't normally considered as "optimal".



Chargless vanguards with energy drain (that one exists somewhere)
Drone Spamming engineers.
Concussive shot spamming soldiers
Shockwave adept
Cloakless Infiltrator
Proximity mine spamming sentinel.

If it's unusual, daft or down right silly, I want to see them.

[Feirefiz1972]

Abraham_uk wrote...

There are a few things I never liked doing with bonus powers.



If your class has pull, choosing lash.
If your class has warp, choosing reave.
If your class has overload choosing energy drain.
If your class already has adrenaline rush, (soldier) choosing marksman.
If your class already has incendiary ammo, choosing warp ammo or armour piercing ammo.
If your class already has tech armour (sentinel), choosing fortification, barrier or defence matrix


There are probably a few more examples.
I prefer to think of bonus powers as filling in a gap that the class doesn't fill.




Adepts, Engineers and Sentinels are good for bonus ammo powers. Heck even infiltrators could do with armour piercing ammo.

Or placing lash on your sentinel.
Or placing reave on your vanguard

So many choices. Why choose a similiar power?

For a sentinel warp can be dodged and does not give damage protection, reave does.

A vanguard is not able to detonate biotics except through charge (wich isnt always my prefered option) or
shockwave (wich is limited in range). I like to take reave as bonus power as a vanguard so i can both prime and detonate biotic explosions from cover in case i decide not to charge in.
 
Lash and reave are both primers as well as detonators, pull is only a primer.

Modifié par Feirefiz1972, 04 janvier 2013 - 10:46 .

[MisterGunfighter]

I didn't read all the posts so the usefulness of the engineer's drone may have already been mentioned.

There are some battles where you can spam cast the drone through glass/doors. Then you can just hang back and let the drone kill everything. Especially funny casting through windows because you can watch the battle.

And yes, I did my insanity run with an engineer.

[Biglose]

brad2240 wrote...
Not at all. The Predator and Shuriken were both decent weapons all the way through the game and you could upgrade to Carnifex and Tempest if you wanted. You never, ever needed DLC or even bonus weapons to do good with a Sentinel in ME2.

Again: It is not about what you can do. It is about what is efficient. Sure you can do it. But the point is, that you will die more often. While a soldier will just walk through the levels.
(But lets not miss the fact that withall this and having your skills put right (assault armor, taken a shotgun for short range etc. the sentinel gets very deadly.)
I am just saying it takes planning . Taking the wrong weapon (as I did with sniper rilfe) makes some parts of the game (mostly the reaper IFF because of the husks) much harder. You can't throw them due to armor so what you gonne do... (well, maybe I should have skilled overload...)
Anyhow, thats kind of the point I am trying to make.

I think you're over-complicating the ME3 Sentinel. It can be as straight forward as Warp + Throw. You literally need nothing else to get though the game and you don't even need to aim as well as a Soldier. All while having better DR.

Depends. Granted, due to the fact that husks do not have armor on insanity like they did in ME 2 (and also other enemys do not get additional protections) it is working much better. But you have nothing against evading troopers. They limit you big time.
Again: It does not help to just say it in general. You have to compare. A infiltrator cloak-shooting or a soldier with adranalin rush does his damage to everybody equally. With the right ammo-powers he can even compensate for some protections.

I love me some ammo powers but they're not at all neccessary. None of the classes without native ammo powers are "weakened" in any way for not having them.

Well, nothing is nessacary. I allready said so much. Thats not an argument.
Playing Mass Effect 2 on insanity I have to say, that "ammo" makes a differance for a sentinal. With ammo mods (espacially fitting the enemy) I often do not die during a level while not really focusing. Without ammo mods, it gets much harder. It is the differance between killing one enemy with one clip or reloading and reaiming....
Not to talk about vorchas without fire-ammo.
So thats a nice boost, made much harder to come by.

For example that was something given to every class in ME 1.

[BluRay]

if you are a good sniper try infiltrator,if you don't try vanguard

[capn233]

Biglose wrote...

Again: It is not about what you can do. It is about what is efficient. Sure you can do it. But the point is, that you will die more often. While a soldier will just walk through the levels.
(But lets not miss the fact that withall this and having your skills put right (assault armor, taken a shotgun for short range etc. the sentinel gets very deadly.)
I am just saying it takes planning . Taking the wrong weapon (as I did with sniper rilfe) makes some parts of the game (mostly the reaper IFF because of the husks) much harder. You can't throw them due to armor so what you gonne do... (well, maybe I should have skilled overload...)
Anyhow, thats kind of the point I am trying to make.

Predator and Shuriken get discounted because people usually take them early game, and drop them for the upgraded weapons before they get any upgrades.  Then they recall the Locust or Carnifex with all the SMG or Pistol upgrades and think they are massively better.  You can argue that the Predator is better on a two-gun class because of better capacity, despite lower damage per shot.  Likewise, the Shuriken is a very good CQB gun in ME2, especially versus shielded enemies.

Speaking specifically about Derelict Reaper, perhaps an SR makes fighting husks more difficult, but why were you using it against them in the first place?  If you have Mordin or Samara in your squad then simply have them cast Incineration Blast or Area Reave and that will strip the armor off a group of husks.  Then you can use whatever you want against them.  Cryo Blast will instakill husks.  Throw instakills them.  Or a squaddie casting Flashbang, Concussive Shot, or Pull will instakill them.  Your SR will make dealing with the Scions a lot easier though, especially if you took the Viper.

Speaking specifically about shotgun training, it would help somewhat versus the husks, but not as much as you think for a Sentinel.  I am playing through with a Sentinel in ME2 currently and took shotguns.  They are ok for a specific type of playstyle, but honestly I think you don't give up too much if you take SRs or ARs and have the Shuriken or Tempest for CQB.  The Eviscerator is ok versus armor, but Katana and Scimitar aren't really any better versus armor than those SMGs, and in reality they probably have lower effective ranges.  If you max / min you would probably be running the Predator or Carnifex on the husk waves anyway, as long as you have decent aim.  A shot or two to strip the armor, then cast a ragdoll power or Cryo Blast.

Depends. Granted, due to the fact that husks do not have armor on insanity like they did in ME 2 (and also other enemys do not get additional protections) it is working much better. But you have nothing against evading troopers. They limit you big time.
Again: It does not help to just say it in general. You have to compare. A infiltrator cloak-shooting or a soldier with adranalin rush does his damage to everybody equally. With the right ammo-powers he can even compensate for some protections.

No, I am with brad here.  It doesn't matter that husks don't have armor, if they did the Warp into Throw would blow them up anyway.  Unlike ME2, husks are not instakilled when they are ragdolled, so it isn't as much of an advantage that they have no protection anyway.

As for troopers, most are unprotected in this game.  Which means it is a simple matter to have a friendly squad member, like Liara, CC and setup them with Singularity, then throw to blow them up.  They will either be killed, or flung onto the ground near death.

An infiltrator may be able to cloak and shoot every unit, but he isn't a combo factory that way.  Biotic explosions will damage multiple units at once, that is the difference.  Post patch a Soldier can mess around with more Fire Explosions, but to chain them he gives up damage protection to the Sentinel.  Really Sentinel is more powerful than either in ME3, as he was in ME2.

Well, nothing is nessacary. I allready said so much. Thats not an argument.
Playing Mass Effect 2 on insanity I have to say, that "ammo" makes a differance for a sentinal. With ammo mods (espacially fitting the enemy) I often do not die during a level while not really focusing. Without ammo mods, it gets much harder. It is the differance between killing one enemy with one clip or reloading and reaiming....
Not to talk about vorchas without fire-ammo.
So thats a nice boost, made much harder to come by.

For example that was something given to every class in ME 1.

Ammo powers in ME2 become progressively less important as you gain weapon upgrades, at least from a damage perspective.  They really are not as important as you are implying.  The CC is ok though, at least from the ones that provide CC.  However, the three classes that have CC ammo powers don't have any other good CC powers like Tech Armor, Singularity or Combat Drone.  So maybe it is a wash.  Vanguard has Pull later game (have to waste points in Shockwave to get it), but that takes away from Charge.  In any event, Soldier with Squad Cryo Ammo is pretty good on Derelict Reaper, but I don't find that it is vastly superior to an Assault Sentinel or even an Adept when they have a good supporting squad and make the most of their powers.

[Abraham_uk]

brad2240 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

Adept is my personal favourite, but even I have to admit that the hybrid biotic classes easily trump the adept.

If biotic explosions are your thing, I don't think any class does it better than an Adept. They're certainly the fastest and have the most ways of seting up and detonating. And they can do it without being tied to any particular squadmate(s).

Okay. This one is definitely my fault. Bad communication you see.
What I meant was that of the three biotic classes, adept is the weakest. This is despite being arguably the strongest biotic.

Let me explain. The Adept is probably best at it's own little niche, which is biotic fields and biotic combos.
However, vanguards have some biotic fields, have biotic charge (which is incredibly powerful) and incendiary ammo.
Sentinel has tech armour and overload as well as warp and throw.


The Engineer holds it's own better against the Infiltrator and the Sentinel since the engineer is already a jack of all trades character.


Adepts (and Soldiers to a lesser extent) in Mass Effect 2 have one function that they do very well. But compare it to the hybrids and they don't fare so well.


Hybrids in many games tend to outperform pure classes because of the roles that they can perform.

[Abraham_uk]

Yeah about Vanguards.

You don't always have to charge. I know this is heresy.
Unless you are very tactically minded, charge spam is a bad idea in Mass Effect 2.


The irony of Nova in Mass Effect 3 was that it was supposed to be high risk high reward. But when combined with biotic charge, it greatly lessened the risk of the charging tactics. It's still very risky though.


The indendiary ammo and cryo ammo provide very useful alternatives in combat. Pull and shockwave are pretty useful too. When you think of the vanguard as a versatile class with many tricks up its sleeves then the vanguard becomes a much easier class to master.

Try to think of all powers as situational. Think of the situation and think of what power to use for each situation. Charge is only a good idea 90% of the time. If there are too many enemies, gun a few down from a distance then charge.



My brother actually had an unusual approach to the vanguard. He brought a sniper rifle, used his incendiary ammo and used shockwave whenever he was overwhelmed. He also brought an assault rifle.

This build actually helped him complete the game. Although seeing how he approached that class, I think soldiers and infiltrators are more his style.

On another note. He loves to carry a lot of weapons, which is also why he rarely used charge. He used nova once I think. He didn't like that power. He finds the idea of depleting one's barrier to be stupid. [He doesn't care much for blood magic either].

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 05 janvier 2013 - 06:36 .

[brad2240]

Biglose wrote...

Again: It is not about what you can do. It is about what is efficient. Sure you can do it. But the point is, that you will die more often. While a soldier will just walk through the levels.

 
For me, Soldier was easier than a caster Sentinel. Soldier was easier than every caster class, that just the nature of the beast in ME2.

But Assault Sentinel was even easier than Soldier. I'm not a person who enjoys CQC too much, and I hate the shotguns in ME2, yet this was still my easiest play-thru ever. And the most boring, but that's neither here nor there.

I am just saying it takes planning . Taking the wrong weapon (as I did with sniper rilfe) makes some parts of the game (mostly the reaper IFF because of the husks) much harder. You can't throw them due to armor so what you gonne do... (well, maybe I should have skilled overload...)

I still think you're over-complicating the class. It doesn't take any special planning. Even with the "wrong" bonus weapon, you still have a pistol and SMG to use on the Reaper IFF, both of which are good and will get you through it just fine. No class needs any particular weapon to get past that level. 

You also sound like you never use anything except the bonus weapon. You do change weapons to fit the situation/enemy don't you?

For armored husks, Mordin Incenerates and I Throw or freeze. It's very fast and very easy. Gunfire also strips husk armor quickly. 

Depends. Granted, due to the fact that husks do not have armor on insanity like they did in ME 2 (and also other enemys do not get additional protections) it is working much better. But you have nothing against evading troopers. They limit you big time.
Again: It does not help to just say it in general. You have to compare. A infiltrator cloak-shooting or a soldier with adranalin rush does his damage to everybody equally. With the right ammo-powers he can even compensate for some protections.

Enemies dodging is a minor problem. At worst you wait for cooldown and fire the power again. Or, more simply, you just shoot them when they're standing up from their roll. Or squadmate CC prevents it altogether.

Sentinels laugh at any and all protections. That's the power of combos. ME3 single-player is designed so that powers are much deadlier than guns by virtue of AOE damage. I enjoy my Soldiers, but a combo caster is unstoppable. and tears through the game much more quickly and efficiently. Whether it's more fun is purely personal preference.
 

 
Playing Mass Effect 2 on insanity I have to say, that "ammo" makes a differance for a sentinal. With ammo mods (espacially fitting the enemy) I often do not die during a level while not really focusing. Without ammo mods, it gets much harder. It is the differance between killing one enemy with one clip or reloading and reaiming....
 

I think "much harder" is a severe over-statement. Ammo in ME2 is useful mostly for it's CC effect, not its extra damage. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the tests showed that ammo barely (if at all) reduced the number of shots needed to kill an enemy with an upgraded weapon. That's due to the way the multipliers are figured.

Ammo powers are fun, I love them and use them much more often than not. But no caster class in ME2 or ME3 is weaker for not having them, which is what you originally said and what I am arguing against.

[fiendishchicken]

ME3 insanity is a joke. The only difference from casual is that you have to go at a slower pace and be more aware of enemies.

I play as a Soldier.

Everything is maxed out except Cryo ammo.

Adrenaline Rush
Concussive Shot
Incendiary Ammo
Disruptor Ammo
Cryo Ammo
Combat Mastery
Fitness
Marksman

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 05 janvier 2013 - 08:31 .

[brad2240]

Please excuse my double posting...

Abraham_uk wrote...

brad2240 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

Adept is my personal favourite, but even I have to admit that the hybrid biotic classes easily trump the adept.

If biotic explosions are your thing, I don't think any class does it better than an Adept. They're certainly the fastest and have the most ways of seting up and detonating. And they can do it without being tied to any particular squadmate(s).

Okay. This one is definitely my fault. Bad communication you see.
What I meant was that of the three biotic classes, adept is the weakest. This is despite being arguably the strongest biotic.

Let me explain. The Adept is probably best at it's own little niche, which is biotic fields and biotic combos.
However, vanguards have some biotic fields, have biotic charge (which is incredibly powerful) and incendiary ammo.
Sentinel has tech armour and overload as well as warp and throw.


The Engineer holds it's own better against the Infiltrator and the Sentinel since the engineer is already a jack of all trades character.


Adepts (and Soldiers to a lesser extent) in Mass Effect 2 have one function that they do very well. But compare it to the hybrids and they don't fare so well.


Hybrids in many games tend to outperform pure classes because of the roles that they can perform.

Ok, I see where you're coming from.

Sentinels and Vanguards have more tools. Adepts only have a hammer (bio bombs) but all problems in ME3 are nails.

[Yate]

If you take Liara and Javik, Sentinels can do biotic combos about as well as Adepts.

Vanguard is probably the easiest to play, but it's definitely not the strongest.

Really it depends on your playstyle - whether you're good at shooting, strategics, class builds, how often you micromanage your squad, etc.

[Abraham_uk]

I remember from Baldur's Gate 1 & 2.

I had the choice of choosing

A Mage
A Cleric

Or a Cleric/Mage.

Mages get more wizard spells than the Cleric/Mage
Clerics get more priest spells than the Cleric/Mage

I opted for hybrid for a number of reasons.


First it gave me flexibility in what team I took. I could take one rogue and make the rest warriors and still have a good team. Or take a mixture of wizards, rogues and priests. No combination was a bad combination (though others were better).

Variety of combos. Some priest spells combo with wizard spells. So I could take a spell that caused vines to appear with a small chance of trapping an enemy then follow up with web with a small chance of trapping the enemy then fire bomb the entire area and then finish off with some missiles. This was the actions of one character. I also had some half decent weapons training too. If I was in trouble I could also heal myself.

I was not as good as a mage, nor was I good as a cleric. I was vastly inferior to a warrior and couldn't perform any rogue moves. But when I combined all my abilities with a bit of intelligent strategic, I could easily outperform mages, clerics and warriors. (I still needed at least one rouge for lock picking and trap disarming).


Sentinel is that character. In Mass Effect 1, the sentinel has the medical training of a cleric. Has debuffing abilities of the cleric. Powers can be used offensively (more like a Jedi than a mage, but I digress) and has some limited combat training like the cleric.

In Mass Effect 2, some of the limitations are stripped. Weapons training allows the Sentinel to be even more powerful. Now has additional protection as a result of tech armour. (Clerics and mages had defensive abilities that buffed their defenses).

Now in Mass Effect 3, thanks to the biotic combos, cryo combos and tech bursts, I feel like I have the mage part covered quite nicely.

[capn233]

Yate wrote...

Vanguard is probably the easiest to play, but it's definitely not the strongest.

It has a combination of

The best shield restore power.
The best ammo power.
Two of the best biotic detonators.
A good biotic primer.
Decent weight capacity.
The best cheesey immunity frame exploiting power.

The only problem the late game Vanguard had from ME2 was dealing with bosses, which was rendered moot in ME3 since you can combo them to death (squad casting powers, or priming with Incendiary Ammo).

Interested in hearing what you think is the strongest (although I have a few ideas...).