222 réponses à ce sujet

[Abraham_uk]

Pistol plus incendiary ammo is a pretty good way to deal with bosses.
SMG plus incendiary ammo is a pretty good way to deal with bosses.

So even with Vanguards supposed weakness in Mass Effect 2, wasn't even that big a weakness.

[capn233]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Pistol plus incendiary ammo is a pretty good way to deal with bosses.
SMG plus incendiary ammo is a pretty good way to deal with bosses.

So even with Vanguards supposed weakness in Mass Effect 2, wasn't even that big a weakness.

Well it wasn't huge because there aren't that many bosses.  And if you used Stasis you could get around the limitation versus Scions and YMIRs.  However strictly speaking the Vanguard wasn't as good versus bosses as an Infiltrator or Soldier in ME2 because you had no powers that were useful against them.  And as I said before in this thread, ammo power damage was not all that significant after you got some weapon upgrades since they were only calculated off the base weapon damage before you add on up to 50% for damage upgrades, and whatever other special damage upgrades (headshot, armor or shield damage, pistol critical...).

[Biglose]

capn233 wrote...

Predator and Shuriken get discounted because people usually take them early game, and drop them for the upgraded weapons before they get any upgrades.  Then they recall the Locust or Carnifex with all the SMG or Pistol upgrades and think they are massively better.  You can argue that the Predator is better on a two-gun class because of better capacity, despite lower damage per shot.  Likewise, the Shuriken is a very good CQB gun in ME2, especially versus shielded enemies.

The main advantage of the Locust is it's incredible accuracy. You are able to land nearly the whole clip in torso+head of an enemy in one single burst.

Speaking specifically about Derelict Reaper, perhaps an SR makes fighting husks more difficult, but why were you using it against them in the first place?  If you have Mordin or Samara in your squad then simply have them cast Incineration Blast or Area Reave and that will strip the armor off a group of husks.  Then you can use whatever you want against them.  Cryo Blast will instakill husks.  Throw instakills them.  Or a squaddie casting Flashbang, Concussive Shot, or Pull will instakill them.  Your SR will make dealing with the Scions a lot easier though, especially if you took the Viper.

All true. But not so much the point I was going for. There is always a way. Take Garrus+Thane with M-29 Incisor
and it is a cakewalk, too.

Speaking specifically about shotgun training, it would help somewhat versus the husks, but not as much as you think for a Sentinel.  I am playing through with a Sentinel in ME2 currently and took shotguns.  They are ok for a specific type of playstyle, but honestly I think you don't give up too much if you take SRs or ARs and have the Shuriken or Tempest for CQB.  The Eviscerator is ok versus armor, but Katana and Scimitar aren't really any better versus armor than those SMGs, and in reality they probably have lower effective ranges.  If you max / min you would probably be running the Predator or Carnifex on the husk waves anyway, as long as you have decent aim.  A shot or two to strip the armor, then cast a ragdoll power or Cryo Blast.

It is not that you can't beat them. It is shooting retreat and the combination of stripping armor and using throw. Have to admit my squad was resting on the floor at that point.

No, I am with brad here.  It doesn't matter that husks don't have armor, if they did the Warp into Throw would blow them up anyway.  Unlike ME2, husks are not instakilled when they are ragdolled, so it isn't as much of an advantage that they have no protection anyway.

Ok, I only played a bit of multiplayer and the first missions. And they used to die when I used throw... Might have been just enough physic damage...

As for troopers, most are unprotected in this game.  Which means it is a simple matter to have a friendly squad member, like Liara, CC and setup them with Singularity, then throw to blow them up.  They will either be killed, or flung onto the ground near death.

With a squad you can also set up biotic explosion playing a soldier... So I do not really like the squad argument...

An infiltrator may be able to cloak and shoot every unit, but he isn't a combo factory that way.  Biotic explosions will damage multiple units at once, that is the difference.  Post patch a Soldier can mess around with more Fire Explosions, but to chain them he gives up damage protection to the Sentinel.  Really Sentinel is more powerful than either in ME3, as he was in ME2.

Infiltrators get time dialation with sniper rifles. Thats a big bonus to start with. This combined with the fact, that headshots can do an awful amount of damage...

Ammo powers in ME2 become progressively less important as you gain weapon upgrades, at least from a damage perspective.  They really are not as important as you are implying.  The CC is ok though, at least from the ones that provide CC.  However, the three classes that have CC ammo powers don't have any other good CC powers like Tech Armor, Singularity or Combat Drone.  So maybe it is a wash.  Vanguard has Pull later game (have to waste points in Shockwave to get it), but that takes away from Charge.  In any event, Soldier with Squad Cryo Ammo is pretty good on Derelict Reaper, but I don't find that it is vastly superior to an Assault Sentinel or even an Adept when they have a good supporting squad and make the most of their powers.

Alright, you missed my point here. The point was, that due to the fact, that you got the Full bonus from squad ammo, the squad ammo of the soldier did NOT make such a differance. You could not reskill every mission.  There were only a few ammo powers, which were good on every mission. (Warp, Anti armor and my be cyro/fire)
Due to this fact it is (in my opinion) until the very late game much more effective to use team squad ammo cast by a team member.  The only point where this might not be usefull is probably the suicide mission. But here the best ammo (in my humble opinion) is warp-ammo. Since you will meet barriers/armor and health. (So bonuspower it is...)
This is not the fact anymore in Mass Effect 3. There team ammo is just not that great anymore. If it would have been put up one or two levels for 100% would be something else...

This is probably a mission where the sentinel (with warp, assault armor, warp amm->which I took) can pritty much walk through the level untill the last fight. (Espacially if you got thane with you or somebody else with maxed out warp) Stripping the barrier of the collectors in one single shot is too nice. With warp ammo you kill them fast afterwards.

The last fight is again a point where the soldier with adranalin rush might be superior. You need to take shots a very small fast moving points. This is impossible with biotics so you have to depend on your weapon. Here a sniper rifle with adrenalin rush ist just perfect. (A pistol with adrenalin rush is also quite good)

Again: I am not saying the sentinel is weak in ME3 or was in ME2. I am just saying in ME2 he needed some thought. In Mass effect 3 the tech armor is a bit nerfed. Again +5% damage reduction, reduce cooldown malus by 5% and give the last evolution an cooldownmalus reduction of 35% insted of 30% and it would be fine..

[brad2240]

Biglose wrote...

The main advantage of the Locust is it's incredible accuracy. You are able to land nearly the whole clip in torso+head of an enemy in one single burst.

That's not the point. Nobody has said the Locust wasn't a good weapon. But the Shuriken and Tempest are good, too, and will easily carry you through the game. You may not like them as much, which is fine, but it's false to say that the Sentinel is hurt if you don't have DLC weapons.

Ok, I only played a bit of multiplayer and the first missions. And they used to die when I used throw... Might have been just enough physic damage...

In ME3 husks usually die when Thrown. But they don't die instantly when lifted off their feet by Pull, Singularity, etc. They also don't die instantly when frozen like they did in ME2.

With a squad you can also set up biotic explosion playing a soldier... So I do not really like the squad argument...

It always cracks me up when people say something like this. It's a squad-based game!

Personally, I don't care much for strategies that tie me to one particular squadmate, but in this example any squadmate will do. Their powers are insta-cast and can't be dodged. Even if it does nothing more than stagger the target you can now safely use your own powers without them dodging.

Infiltrators get time dialation with sniper rifles. Thats a big bonus to start with. This combined with the fact, that headshots can do an awful amount of damage...

Time dilation is a mod in ME3, anyone can use it. Also, shieldgate screws with snipers big time in single player. Doesn't matter how much damage your headshot does it will still take a minimum of 2 to kill a protected target. In that time a power combo will have done similar damage to the protected target and killed every unprotected enemy around it.

You could not reskill every mission.

Yes you could. Except maybe in your very first play-thru, ezo is plentiful. You can respec as often as you need to.

There were only a few ammo powers, which were good on every mission. (Warp, Anti armor and my be cyro/fire)

I think you might not be aware of the actual behind-the-scenes mechanics of ammo powers. I say this becasue you seem to value the raw damage of an ammo over it's CC aspects. If you do some searches through the ME2 board you can find that the damage makes very little difference in the long run. Only in the beginning of the game, before your gun is upgraded, are you getting as much bonus damage as you think you are, or as the power says you are.

Incendiary is universally the best ammo in the game. It panics all organic targets. Only on the few Geth missions do you need/want another ammo.

I consider Cryo and Disruptor to be tied for 2nd place. Cryo because it will freeze anything when protections are down, and Disruptor because of the vast amount of shields you face and it overheats weapons. Disruptor is also obviously the best on Geth missions.

Warp, AP, and Shredder are, at best, luxuries, nice to have but you can live without them. At worst, they're a waste of points, which some people believe they are.

This is not the fact anymore in Mass Effect 3. There team ammo is just not that great anymore. If it would have been put up one or two levels for 100% would be something else...

CC ammo is still pretty good in ME3. I see it proc all the time. Yeah, its a comedown from 2, but it's not exactly crippled and worthless, IMO.

This is probably a mission where the sentinel (with warp, assault armor, warp amm->which I took) can pritty much walk through the level untill the last fight. (Espacially if you got thane with you or somebody else with maxed out warp) Stripping the barrier of the collectors in one single shot is too nice. With warp ammo you kill them fast afterwards.

 
Incendiary is a much, much better choice for the suicide mission. Warp is ok if your class doesn't have it and you hate Grunt and Jacob. BTW, Jacob works very well with a Sentinel.  

The last fight is again a point where the soldier with adranalin rush might be superior. You need to take shots a very small fast moving points. This is impossible with biotics so you have to depend on your weapon. Here a sniper rifle with adrenalin rush ist just perfect. (A pistol with adrenalin rush is also quite good)

It most certainly is not impossible. I use Warp constantly on the last boss when playing Sentinel and Adept and have finished it more than once with Warp as the final blow. It works superbly. I have no idea why you think it doesn't

Again: I am not saying the sentinel is weak in ME3 or was in ME2. I am just saying in ME2 he needed some thought. In Mass effect 3 the tech armor is a bit nerfed. Again +5% damage reduction, reduce cooldown malus by 5% and give the last evolution an cooldownmalus reduction of 35% insted of 30% and it would be fine..

ME2 Sentinel didn't need any more thought than any other class. If you played Assault Sentinel, it needed even less than any other class.

Little 5% adjustments, would be almost completely unnoticeable and would not change TA in any functional way.

EDIT: fixed quotes.

Modifié par brad2240, 06 janvier 2013 - 04:13 .

[capn233]

I am not going to write a long response, but here are a couple things:

Incendiary Ammo in ME2 didn't panic melee organics (Varren, Klixen and Husks) and on those Cryo Ammo is probably slightly better. Really it is probably near a wash for Varren and Klixen, but better versus Husks (because it instakills them when it hits health if they freeze). But this only matters on 3 mainline missions (Rite of Passage, Old Blood, Derelict Reaper). For the final mission, if I have Inferno on Shepard (Soldier, Vanguard), I am running it. If I have Squad Cryo, it is a good ammo as well. All other ammos are a bonus there, although my Soldiers tend to be spec'd into Squad Disruptor anyway, so if I don't have Cryo maxed I would run that on the squad for the mild weapon overheat CC.

The above is also why you didn't need to reskill the Soldier at all really. You could do with Incendiary and Disruptor ammo. Sure, early game you can't just max everything, but that is true for squad powers as well. I would rather max Jacob's Pull to Field, or even max Grunt's passive before trying to max their ammo powers.

[brad2240]

Double posting forum shenanigans...

Modifié par brad2240, 06 janvier 2013 - 04:11 .

[brad2240]

capn233 wrote...

Incendiary Ammo in ME2 didn't panic melee organics (Varren, Klixen and Husks)

My bad. I was just thinking about mercs and Collectors. Though, to be honest, I usually just use Incendiary on Varren and Klixen armor anyway. But Cryo is clearly the better choice for the Reaper IFF.

Still think Incendiary is universally the best, though.

[Biglose]

@brad2240
For the suicide mission: As a sentinel you do not get to pick incendiary ammo. Secondly it does damage over time. Does not help much if you kill things with one burst flat.

Warp does increased damage against everything you encounter on this mission. So it is not that bad. And yes I know how it works, or I suppose I do.
It is base damage of the weapon multiplied with the sum of every boni.
So for example:
Pistol 3+hevy warp ammo would be:
base damage*(1+0.3+0.5)=base*1.8

(Not exactly sure how it works with bonus power damage though. Read somewhere it affects the damage of ammo powers...)

Normally warp ammo is crap, because it does nothing against shields and it does not prevent regeneration and it does neither freeze nor instant kill anything.
The point is, that for the last mission you face more or less one enemy type: Collectors with a barrier and health and some of those only armor big guys. That means that heavy warp is a flat +50% base damage, which is quite nice.

Add to the fact, that you will only use one active power (beeing warp for those barriers). So you do not want to increase the amount of time you need to restore your shields to full power. So barrier would not be worth it. Yes, I guess armor piercing would have been a bit better. But the heck.

CC ammo is still pretty good in ME3. I see it proc all the time. Yeah, its a comedown from 2, but it's not exactly crippled and worthless, IMO.

Not saying it is worthless, but it took a big hit. Thats all I am saying. Omega with jacobs incindiary ammo is quite feeling different than without it.

Time dilation is a mod in ME3, anyone can use it. Also, shieldgate screws with snipers big time in single player. Doesn't matter how much damage your headshot does it will still take a minimum of 2 to kill a protected target. In that time a power combo will have done similar damage to the protected target and killed every unprotected enemy around it.

Using single shot rifles, true. But the guy throwing the combo needs two attacks anyway. With a cooldown of at least 2 sec between them.

Tried the start of mass effect 3 with a level 30 sentinel and level 30 infiltrator. The infiltrator felt easier.

Little 5% adjustments, would be almost completely unnoticeable and would not change TA in any functional way.

Maybe add another -5. But effectivly 25% more shields will be noticed.
So +5 damage resistance, cooldown malus 70 down to 35 with final evolution.
True it does not change much, but you could have it active before getting the final evolution without kicking yourself in the head for your stupidity.

Modifié par Biglose, 06 janvier 2013 - 07:48 .

[Abraham_uk]

CC ammo? What is that?

In Mass Effect 3

There's Disruptor Ammo
Incendiary Ammo
Cryo Ammo

Warp Ammo
Armour Piercing Ammo


From Multiplayer

Phasic Ammo
Drill Ammo
Explosive Ammo




By CC do you mean crowd control ammo? Well there is three of those. Disruptor (for stun), incendiary (for panic) and cryo ammo (to make you feel like Mr Freeze!)

[brad2240]

Biglose wrote...

@brad2240
For the suicide mission: As a sentinel you do not get to pick incendiary ammo. Secondly it does damage over time. Does not help much if you kill things with one burst flat.

You have 2 squadmates with it, Jacob annd Grunt.

Jacob is a good teammate for a Sentinel from beginning to end, if you can stand his personality. Incendiary ammo for the team and Pull for setting up Warp bombs. Works well.

Grunt is Grunt.

Incendiary rips through armor and panics drones. Barriers are easily delt with through powers and squadmates, letting the Incendiary do its work. You should try it before you discard it as not useful.

Using single shot rifles, true. But the guy throwing the combo needs two attacks anyway. With a cooldown of at least 2 sec between them.

Tried the start of mass effect 3 with a level 30 sentinel and level 30 infiltrator. The infiltrator felt easier.

But in the same amount of time the power combo has killed more enemies. Powers are better than guns in single player for pure killing power.

Infiltrator probably is a bit easier. Tac Cloak solves all problems. Or maybe it just fits your playstyle better, there is something to be said for that. But the beginning of the game at level 30 is not good grounds to compare classes on.

Have you actually played through ME3 with any class? Or are you making all these statements without firsthand knowledge?

True it does not change much, but you could have it active before getting the final evolution without kicking yourself in the head for your stupidity.

If you think using TA before the final evo, or without the cooldown evo, is stupid you're showing that you have no idea how the power works. Like a lot of people, you probably see that 80% penalty and think it's going to kill you, without  considering all the other factors like (chiefly) weapons weight, armor worn, research terminal upgrades, etc. The truth is, that penalty barely slows you down at all. If you're actually doing something like shooting or moving when powers are on cooldown, not just sitting in cover staring at the CS indicator, odds are you'll probably barely notice the half second or so added to your recharge.

@Abraham: Yeah I was referring to crowd control ammo types. Sorry if it was unclear.

[capn233]

Ammo power damage in ME2 is calculated via the base weapon damage, which does not include any of your researched or purchased upgrades.

As a Sentinel it probably doesn't matter what ammo power you take if you are using your powers and squad powers effectively anyway. I agree that Jacob is a good choice though with Pull and Incendiary ammo. Or you could simply take Jack and Miranda for faster Pull recharge and Warp. Or Jack and Samara make some sense. Of course you can use your bonus power on the Sentinel for Warp Ammo. That's fine by me, but you would end up doing more extra damage using Stasis...

As for the third game, infiltrator perhaps is easier than Sentinel. Vanilla infiltrator moved up in power a lot since ME2 (where it was way below Sentinel...). But slap Barrier or Defensive Matrix on a Sentinel and then see how much fire you can take. No other class comes close.

Infiltrator gets relative weapon weight insensitivity via cloak minimum cooldown, but you can get around that on Sentinel via the Throw "Reset on Detonation" evolution.

As for TA cooldown penalty, everything is expressed in terms of "Power Recharge Speed" not actual penalties for recharge times. It is the same as taking an extra gun that weighs 0.8. But Sentinel can get a Weight Capacity bonus of 70 from passive, so that cancels out all but 0.1 of the penalty. Then there are further bonuses, and the fact that you don't need a functional PRS anywhere near +200% to be effective.

[Biglose]

Why does everybody assume, that nobody knows how the System works?
It is quite simple. Add everything together and multiple it with the base. So warp with minus 200 gets you a cool down of 6/3=2. Quite easy
But sorry 80 is a lot. And it doesn't balance with the carry weight. One bigger weapon does not make up for one to two seconds additional cooldown. And getting Shepherd to minus 200is easy due to the fact he has around 90 free capacity to begin with.

[RedCaesar97]

Biglose wrote...

Why does everybody assume, that nobody knows how the System works?
It is quite simple. Add everything together and multiple it with the base. So warp with minus 200 gets you a cool down of 6/3=2. Quite easy
But sorry 80 is a lot. And it doesn't balance with the carry weight. One bigger weapon does not make up for one to two seconds additional cooldown. And getting Shepherd to minus 200is easy due to the fact he has around 90 free capacity to begin with.

From Power Stat Upgrades - Official Math Formula Explanation:

Formula 2 – Recharge Speed Upgrades

Recharge speed (aka cooldown) use a formula called divide by bonus sum. The formula is as follows:

New Value = Base Value at Rank 1 * (1.0 / (1.0 + Sum of all rank bonuses + Dynamic Bonuses))

* Sum of all the rank bonuses are the bonuses of every other rank that you have bought added all up
* Dynamic Bonuses are from things like your passives and weight capacity.


I believe Warp has an 8 second base cooldown for Shepard. Please correct me if I am wrong. So assuming at rank 2 (+25% recharge speed) and no intel or armor cooldown bonuses, at +200% weight capacity:
     8 * (1/(1+ 2.00 + 0.25) = 2.46

And at +200% weight capacity and -80% from Tech Armor:
     8* (1/1+ 2.00 + 0.25 - 0.8) = 3.26

That is a 0.8 second difference, almost a full second. Really, not that big of a difference, only slightly noticeable.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 07 janvier 2013 - 01:09 .

[Biglose]

Right 6 was mass2. My bad. Other than that we agree. The point is even with +300 those 80ppints still increase the warp from 2 to 2.5. And in order to get that high you need the right armor the right evolutios and +200 from weight. With only those 200 combined with ta the difference is one second.

[brad2240]

Biglose wrote...

Why does everybody assume, that nobody knows how the System works?

 
Because of statements like this:

But sorry 80 is a lot. And it doesn't balance with the carry weight. 

When this game came out, a lot of people were screaming that an 80% penalty destroyed the Sentinel's casting ability and it was stupid to use Tech Armor. They hadn't actually done the math, tried it in-game, or listened to those who had.

In other words, exactly what you've done in this thread.

[ryn_wolf]

i used an engineer with a defense drone as a bonus power and spec'd my drones and my turret for damage and shields and spec my turret with flamethrower and my shepard with drone mastery and go in with a paladin and a bloodpack punisher Smg (DLC) and spec overload with chainoverload and incenerate with damage and i was good to go the only thing i had watch out for was grenades and i had my shepard wear the Serrice Council which adds power damage and the umbra visor which also adds power damage and usually I brought James and Kaiden with me for Tech explosions everywhere

[Biglose]

But it does 3.5 seconds castingtime is a lot. That's why I said 70 with the possibility of 35 discount. Getting warb down to 3 sec with the right evolution of TA and light gear. Making the armored caster possible without needing every single upgrade.

[brad2240]

Biglose wrote...

But it does 3.5 seconds castingtime is a lot. That's why I said 70 with the possibility of 35 discount. Getting warb down to 3 sec with the right evolution of TA and light gear. Making the armored caster possible without needing every single upgrade.

So 3.5 secs is a lot but 3 secs is acceptable. Really? Half of a second is a deal breaker for you?

Half a second makes no functional difference in gameplay. You don't even notice it if you're doing anything at all while powers are on cooldown. 



@ryn: Have you tried Defense Matrix on an Engineer? The extra power damage is sweet, plus some DR and shield restoration to boot. It's a great combo.  
 

[capn233]

Adding an extra fraction of a second onto the cooldown of Warp is not a big deal, especially when you consider you are more likely to be able to even cast the power when you have Damage Protection to soften the damage you take.

The next point is that spamming Warp over and over isn't the way to play Sentinel anyway. You will be using Throw at least as much as anything else since it also will detonate any combo, but has a shorter cooldown and can hit multiple targets when leveled.

[capn233]

More fun maths...

Assume:
Warp evolved to Rank 6, Detonate, Expose, Pierce. Total rank recharge bonus .25, base speed is 8s
Offensive Mastery for weight capacity bonus of 70; Force and Damage, Weight Capacity, Damage
Throw evolved to Radius, Detonate, Double Throw. Rank recharge is .25, base is 4s
Claymore X weight 2.0
Tech Armor for max Damage Protection, Penalty 0.8

Warp without Tech Armor:
RS = 8 * [1/(1 + 0.25 + 2.0 + 0.75 + 0.7 - 2.0)] = 2.96s

Warp with Tech Armor:
RS = 8 * [1/(1 + 0.25 + 2.0 + 0.75 + 0.7 - 2.0 - 0.8)] = 4.21s

Throw without Tech Armor
RS = 4 * [1/(1 + 0.25 + 2.0 + 0.75 + 0.7 - 2.0)] = 1.48s

Throw with Tech Armor
RS = 4 * [1/(1 + 0.25 + 2.0 + 0.75 + 0.7 - 2.0 - 0.8)] = 2.1s

Oh no, the recharge speeds were longer if I took a Claymore. Then again, you do have the Claymore. You can take more recharge speed bonuses if you want, they are there in the powers, or you can go with Rosenkov armor, or intel bonuses.

Assume Punisher X (0.35) and Paladin X (0.35):

Warp without Tech Armor:
RS = 8 * [1/(1 + 0.25 + 2.0)] = 2.46s*

Warp with Tech Armor:
RS = 8 * [1/(1 + 0.25 + 2.0 - 0.8)] = 3.26s*

Throw without Tech Armor
RS = 4 * [1/(1 + 0.25 + 2.0)] = 1.23s*

Throw with Tech Armor
RS = 4 * [1/(1 + 0.25 + 2.0  - 0.8)] = 1.63s*

With this load it is well within the realm of "doesn't matter."

edit2: I believe Shepard's starting encumbrance is 75 no matter the class (in MP it ranges from 30-55 character specific).  Redid the numbers to reflect that.  I am going to have to check this in game later today.

*Power Recharge Speed is capped at +/- 200%... so in the second weapon loadout example you would show a 200% bonus... extra weight capacity is unused (Shep has a 145 weight capacity, but is only using 70).  Numbers now reflect that.

Modifié par capn233, 07 janvier 2013 - 05:36 .

[RedCaesar97]

Biglose wrote...

But it does 3.5 seconds castingtime is a lot. That's why I said 70 with the possibility of 35 discount. Getting warb down to 3 sec with the right evolution of TA and light gear. Making the armored caster possible without needing every single upgrade.

Only if you are trying to detonate your own Overload for tech bursts, something you really do not need to do; other than Menae (Palaven's moon), you will always have Liara with you for Singularity--and/or Javik for Pull--so you can Overload Marauder/Geth Hunter/Geth Rocket Trooper/Centurian shields or Phantom barriers > Liara Singularity > your Throw.

Only Geth Primes and Atlas mechs have more shields than you can Overload, but even your own Overload > Throw will not remove it one tech burst so that does not matter.

More math:


Warp (8 second base cooldown), with rank 2 Recharge speed (+25%)  with both Tech Armor and Barrier max penalties (80% and 60%), +200% weapon weight, and no other bonuses:
     8* (1/1+ 2.00 + 0.25 - 0.8 - 0.6) = 4.32

Again, only Overload suffers in that you cannot tech burst your own Overload. You can still detonate your own Warp with Throw for a biotic explosion.


Warp (8 second base cooldown), with rank 2 Recharge speed (+25%)  with both Tech Armor and Barrier rank 6 recharge speed (50% and 30%), +200% weapon weight, and no other bonuses:
     8*(1/1+ 2.00 + 0.25 - 0.5 - 0.3) = 3.26
This is the exact same as only Tech Armor 80% penalty, but you can get additional power bonuses.

[Biglose]

@RedCaesar97
Again, not saying it is not fun. Against unprotected enemys you can just drop this annoying work to combo an just use double throw. Seems to love to hit the same enemy twice, giving the poor guy escape velocity.

@capn233
Your calculation with weight capacity are missleading for it is capped at 200%.
If this would not be the case casters would be overpowered. Every caster could get around +300% easy due to weight.

And if there would not be a limit on bonus by small loadout but on the maximal recharge rate lets say +300%, yes tech armor+biotic barrier would be kind of overpowered. Ultra light pistol+max capacity...
But Shepard-caster would be generally overpowered.

RS = 8 * [1/(1 + 0.25 + 2.0 + 0.75 + 0.7 - 2.0)] = 2.96s

Now we have learned that taking the number two in weapon weight in the game even makes shapard sweat. What a shock.

But what your calculations shows quite directly is, that the more recharge bonus you get, the lower the problem. Thats what I said before.
If you are shoosing between +320 or +400 it does not matter.
But +80 or 0 is a hell of a differance.
(Example: 8/1.8=4.4 und 8/1=0....)
Everything above +250% is more or less wasted (100 points giving you only a reduction of 0.2 to 0.5 sec) on the other hand under 150% you really miss out. ( between +100 and +150 beeing 0.8 sec)

Since your shapard will be in that area 200 and something, the 30% down from the last evolution matters
@RedCaesar97

Warp (8 second base cooldown), with rank 2 Recharge speed (+25%) with both Tech Armor and Barrier rank 6 recharge speed (50% and 30%), +200% weapon weight, and no other bonuses:
8*(1/1+ 2.00 + 0.25 - 0.5 - 0.3) = 3.26
This is the exact same as only Tech Armor 80% penalty, but you can get additional power bonuses.

Really? Barrier with the reduction evolution is only -20 not -30. So it would be 10 points less than tech armor alone and 10 points damage reduction more. But you are using two powers.
Reave is a nice alternative, also stacking with tech armor and you can also detonate it. (And it does not have a penalty..)

[brad2240]

Biglose wrote...

Really? Barrier with the reduction evolution is only -20 not -30.

You're wrong, the base penalty on Barrier is 60%, reduced to 30% with the rank 6 recharge evo. You may be confusing it with MP numbers.

But please, keep arguing with two respected and very knowledgeable posters who've done a lot of testing on this game, when you haven't even played it past the first couple missions.

Modifié par brad2240, 07 janvier 2013 - 08:01 .

[Biglose]

Darn, then mass effect wiki is wrong...

[Abraham_uk]

One second of cool down doesn't make that much of a difference in single player.
Insanity isn't that tough. Heck even two extra seconds is still in comfortable range (though not preferable).



But going on multiplayer. Rapid cooldowns are important for casters. You need every milisecond of difference when you're swarmed by enemies of all four factions hunting you down.

All of a sudden the cooldown for stasis just seems too long when you have 3 phantoms firing their palm blasters at you staggering you for the sync kill.