20 réponses à ce sujet

[Spyre2001]

In Short: So they could make ME4

In Detail: The choices you make throughout the series have galaxy wide implications. Such as the Genophage Cure, Geth Survival, and etc. These are all made before the final end of game choice.

Bioware already encountered this problem with their Knights of the Old Republic Franchise when TOR hit as there is reference to Revan in that game. From what I hear they tried to keep it vague by saying no one know if Revan was male or female and few other things. But there are a few key points they had to choose one way or the other which effectively negated some people's version of Revan.

It is the same kind of Railroading we saw with Anders in how nothing we did in Awaking mattered since it was possible for Anders to not join you, die, not merge with justice, and etc. But they forced us to accept their history with Anders as cannon.

It really defeats the purpose of having choice systems in a series when they simply go to the next game and say, "Nope here is what really happen".

Anyhow back to the original point that EA wants to milk BW and it's franchise for as much money as possible. There was already talk of how they wanted to turn DA into a long running franchise and move it, and ALL of their franchises, into a EA sports style release system of new game every year. But they pretty much killed the DA franchise doing that with DA2.

DA2 being a huge flop is probably the only reason we got as good of a game in ME3 as we did as after DA2 flop they extended the release date for ME3. Most likely because the Devs went to EA and said "We told you so" on the topic of they needed more time.

But even with all that EA still probably put a lot of pressure on BW to leave the door open wide enough that they could make another game in the same universe. At the same time they didn't want to have to worry about importing saves from ME3 because of the shear amount of choices they would have to account for.

I know it's not the same companies but look at Halo. It was also suppose to be a Trilogy but now Halo 4 is in the works. And Halo is a lot easier to make sequels for since players have no choice. Bungie even said they didn't want to make a 4th game. But EA is likely to do the same thing Microsoft did which is pass the ME franchise off to another studio if they can't get BW to make ME4.

Given that the top endings with 4K and 5K readiness are both choosing to destroy the Reapers and Shepard lives it seems like this is the "cannon" ending they are leaning towards for move into ME4. And they can say so much time has passed on the other choices you made that whatever they want happened. Sort of a small things factor themselves out way of viewing time so most choices are rendered pointless in the grand scale of cosmic time. Kind of like the BS with there being a Rachni Queen regardless of if you saved the one in ME1.

[SandTrout]

It's too bad that the ending we got negates a large portion of the likely customer base actually bothering to purchase any form of ME4

[MadMatt910]

I know for one there is no hope of me buying another bioware game, let alone me4 without a fix for these endings.

[DarkSpider88]

I certainly will not pay for ME4 if there is one. The ending basically told my Shepard to bend over and take it.

[sorentoft]

Only problem is that in doing so they lost a lot of those willing to buy ME4 without a second thought. Now I won't even bother buying ME3 DLC, unless it is a better ending, and even then I want to make sure it is worth my money first. I have turned from a loyal consumer that would pre-order everything into harbouring extreme suspicion against any of their future products. That is bad.

[Aedan276]

Spyre2001 wrote...

In Short: So they could make ME4

In Detail: The choices you make throughout the series have galaxy wide implications. Such as the Genophage Cure, Geth Survival, and etc. These are all made before the final end of game choice.

Bioware already encountered this problem with their Knights of the Old Republic Franchise when TOR hit as there is reference to Revan in that game. From what I hear they tried to keep it vague by saying no one know if Revan was male or female and few other things. But there are a few key points they had to choose one way or the other which effectively negated some people's version of Revan.

It is the same kind of Railroading we saw with Anders in how nothing we did in Awaking mattered since it was possible for Anders to not join you, die, not merge with justice, and etc. But they forced us to accept their history with Anders as cannon.

It really defeats the purpose of having choice systems in a series when they simply go to the next game and say, "Nope here is what really happen".

Anyhow back to the original point that EA wants to milk BW and it's franchise for as much money as possible. There was already talk of how they wanted to turn DA into a long running franchise and move it, and ALL of their franchises, into a EA sports style release system of new game every year. But they pretty much killed the DA franchise doing that with DA2.

DA2 being a huge flop is probably the only reason we got as good of a game in ME3 as we did as after DA2 flop they extended the release date for ME3. Most likely because the Devs went to EA and said "We told you so" on the topic of they needed more time.

But even with all that EA still probably put a lot of pressure on BW to leave the door open wide enough that they could make another game in the same universe. At the same time they didn't want to have to worry about importing saves from ME3 because of the shear amount of choices they would have to account for.

I know it's not the same companies but look at Halo. It was also suppose to be a Trilogy but now Halo 4 is in the works. And Halo is a lot easier to make sequels for since players have no choice. Bungie even said they didn't want to make a 4th game. But EA is likely to do the same thing Microsoft did which is pass the ME franchise off to another studio if they can't get BW to make ME4.

Given that the top endings with 4K and 5K readiness are both choosing to destroy the Reapers and Shepard lives it seems like this is the "cannon" ending they are leaning towards for move into ME4. And they can say so much time has passed on the other choices you made that whatever they want happened. Sort of a small things factor themselves out way of viewing time so most choices are rendered pointless in the grand scale of cosmic time. Kind of like the BS with there being a Rachni Queen regardless of if you saved the one in ME1.

I agree. They've already explored a high-tech galaxy, all that is left is to explore is a post-apocalyptic galaxy. This ending frees them from a lot of responsibility for player choice. Not sure is that is the right direction to go in a series that is supposed to be about choices culminating into diverse endings, though. Letting Shepard turn his back on the Star Child, game checks EMS score; if high enough, it lets your allies/companions destroy the Reapers, which would have made you feel as though (1) Shepard is still a larger than life hero capable of defying ancient cosmic forces and (2) your allies and companions that you spent the game/trilogy gathering mattered. Star Child disappears and Mass Relays short circuit. Shepard floats into space during the explosion and gets picked up by the Normany where his companions have gathered; game checks EMS score to see if he lives or not. Done right, that couldn't have compromised their vision for the possibe future of the franchise. 

As it is, your forced into moral choices that don't fit the tone or themes most Shepard role-played through. 

Modifié par Aedan276, 11 mars 2012 - 06:14 .

[ichobi]

There is something seriously stupid when developer says hey we are making a trilogy, then pull a stunt to make the 4th. Look at Halo 4, how is that even acceptable to most players I don't understand. Time to move on and make better game, not milking your franchise to death.

[Aedan276]

ichobi wrote...

There is something seriously stupid when developer says hey we are making a trilogy, then pull a stunt to make the 4th. Look at Halo 4, how is that even acceptable to most players I don't understand. Time to move on and make better game, not milking your franchise to death.

It is acceptable because Halo isn't a role-laying game.

Modifié par Aedan276, 11 mars 2012 - 06:16 .

[Superninfreak]

Yeah, I'm thinking the pressure to continue the series was the reason they did this. They wanted to ruin the galaxy so much that nothing we did mattered. It's easy to be vague about the details of the past if the whole galaxy is segmented.

It's a pretty clear example of greed being more important than good writing.

[Kingthlayer]

I always assumed Mass Effect 4 would be based 500-600 years into the future, with Liara being a very important character. That way the choices the player made would already be played out, curing or not curing the genophage is irrelevant because if needed it could be cured or reissued again during the time from the ending of Mass Effect 3 to the 4th. The Geth vs Quarian conflict could start up again as well during that time.

I don't think they had to make horrible endings for this to happen.

[Aedan276]

Superninfreak wrote...

Yeah, I'm thinking the pressure to continue the series was the reason they did this. They wanted to ruin the galaxy so much that nothing we did mattered. It's easy to be vague about the details of the past if the whole galaxy is segmented.

It's a pretty clear example of greed being more important than good writing.

Yeah, they flipped "saving galactic civilization" to "breaking the cycle" so that they could use the ruins of galactic civilization as a setting for future games. 

Which would have been acceptable, if they'd handled it in a way that maintained Shepard's image as a larger than life hero and showed that the civilizations of the galaxy could triumph over the Reapers without Star Child's input, and therefore that previous actions mattered. 

Modifié par Aedan276, 11 mars 2012 - 06:21 .

[Falkenlore]

As an aside.. You know you meet Revan in SWtOR right? There are two whole flashpoints dedicated to encountering him. One for Empire and one for Republic. There is no ambiguity left about what he looked like or what his Gender was. Additionally you meet Scourge who also met the Jedi Exile, confirming her name and gender.

Not trying to invalidate your argument by any means, just pointing this out.

[revo76]

ichobi wrote...

There is something seriously stupid when developer says hey we are making a trilogy, then pull a stunt to make the 4th. Look at Halo 4, how is that even acceptable to most players I don't understand. Time to move on and make better game, not milking your franchise to death.

hey, i like Halo series. 

At least they made a good H3 ending so they made H4 possible, always kept them as a joker.

Except BW.

[rvgifford]

 After DA2 I will not buy DA3. After ME3 I will not buy ME4 or some spin off like a MMO.

Exception: Used bargain bin. Maybe, years after release . . . maybe. Then used so Bioware/EA don't get a dime.

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

Spyre2001 wrote...

In Short: So they could make ME4

In Detail: The choices you make throughout the series have galaxy wide implications. Such as the Genophage Cure, Geth Survival, and etc. These are all made before the final end of game choice.

Bioware already encountered this problem with their Knights of the Old Republic Franchise when TOR hit as there is reference to Revan in that game. From what I hear they tried to keep it vague by saying no one know if Revan was male or female and few other things. But there are a few key points they had to choose one way or the other which effectively negated some people's version of Revan.

It is the same kind of Railroading we saw with Anders in how nothing we did in Awaking mattered since it was possible for Anders to not join you, die, not merge with justice, and etc. But they forced us to accept their history with Anders as cannon.

It really defeats the purpose of having choice systems in a series when they simply go to the next game and say, "Nope here is what really happen".

Anyhow back to the original point that EA wants to milk BW and it's franchise for as much money as possible. There was already talk of how they wanted to turn DA into a long running franchise and move it, and ALL of their franchises, into a EA sports style release system of new game every year. But they pretty much killed the DA franchise doing that with DA2.

DA2 being a huge flop is probably the only reason we got as good of a game in ME3 as we did as after DA2 flop they extended the release date for ME3. Most likely because the Devs went to EA and said "We told you so" on the topic of they needed more time.

But even with all that EA still probably put a lot of pressure on BW to leave the door open wide enough that they could make another game in the same universe. At the same time they didn't want to have to worry about importing saves from ME3 because of the shear amount of choices they would have to account for.

I know it's not the same companies but look at Halo. It was also suppose to be a Trilogy but now Halo 4 is in the works. And Halo is a lot easier to make sequels for since players have no choice. Bungie even said they didn't want to make a 4th game. But EA is likely to do the same thing Microsoft did which is pass the ME franchise off to another studio if they can't get BW to make ME4.

Given that the top endings with 4K and 5K readiness are both choosing to destroy the Reapers and Shepard lives it seems like this is the "cannon" ending they are leaning towards for move into ME4. And they can say so much time has passed on the other choices you made that whatever they want happened. Sort of a small things factor themselves out way of viewing time so most choices are rendered pointless in the grand scale of cosmic time. Kind of like the BS with there being a Rachni Queen regardless of if you saved the one in ME1.

I understand the sentiment but it's not true.  The existing 3 endings vary enough in outcome for a Mass Effect 4 that it is no excuse for excluding other endings.  Under destroy it explicitly states that "Most" advanced technology that people rely on will be destroyed.  This is dramatically different from the other two.  Under control, the reapers are still alive and are a potential threat in the future.  Under synthesis...EVERYONE IS NOW A FREAKING ROBOT. 

If they can work a Mass Effect 4 with these endings, they could work it with others.

Modifié par Atraiyu Wrynn, 11 mars 2012 - 06:22 .

[HKR148]

revo76 wrote...

ichobi wrote...

There is something seriously stupid when developer says hey we are making a trilogy, then pull a stunt to make the 4th. Look at Halo 4, how is that even acceptable to most players I don't understand. Time to move on and make better game, not milking your franchise to death.

hey, i like Halo series. 

At least they made a good H3 ending so they made H4 possible, always kept them as a joker.

Except BW.

Halo 3 gave proper closure, Chief gets stranded in space; tells Cortana to wake him when she needs him while they wait for the rescue by signalling the beacon. Meanwhile on Earth a proper closure is being delivered by memorializing those who died along with a brief... appreciation between the Sangheili and the Humans. Sangheili's goes back to their planet in order to dissolve the Covenant while humans are left so they can re-build everything.

ME3? Give me a break; nothing of this magnitude. Halo3's Master Chief will be remembered as a legendary figure in the gaming industry even after the second trilogy while Shepard will more likely be remembered as "what he/she could've been."

Modifié par HKR148, 11 mars 2012 - 06:25 .

[Foehamer1]

The endings would make no sense for a Mass Effect 4, did you even see them? In the choices the Mass Relays explodes, which would normally destroy the system they were in, so there is plot hole numero uno. Without the Mass Relays there is no travel to other systems so everyone is stuck in the Sol system for untold amount of time.

The Normandy crash landed on some distant planet after somehow getting through a Mass Relay last second for no reason which is at the opposite end of the solar system from where the battle took place and they are now trapped there. Let's not forget the whole crew of the Normandy is there. I don't know how but even my squad mates from the Earth attack who rushed the lift somehow managed to get onto the Normandy unscratched.

If you can explain to me where a Mass Effect 4 story could come into this, I'd highly appreciate it because at the moment I don't want to touch any of the series ever again.

Modifié par Foehamer1, 11 mars 2012 - 06:28 .

[Menagra]

I think there should be a few more ending options:

1) 5000+ means crucible system isn't so critical and there's time for processing so if Shep chooses symbiotic option then only needs to give some DNA rather than throw whole body into light (So not dead and even in escape pod in time). Shep survives no matter paragon or renegade, and has time to warn crew so Joker doesn't flip out and flee into relay. Half the fleet make it through the relay's to their homes and half don't, leaving Sol to be populated with whatever species shep recruited (and option 2 could be tagged on here). Rest of galaxy populated in diverse places due to desperate jumps.

2) Shepard recruits the geth and because of geth's reaper upgrades in a few short years they rebuild a geth version of the mass relay's and it ends with Shepard reconciling with anyone on the other side.

3) Shepard aids illusive man, and Cerberus destroys the fleet and reapers win. Humans become new servants of reapers.

4) The Normandy crew get the quantum communication up and running if assets high enough (so normandy isn't damaged enough). This allows for communication between Sol and where ever the normandy is afterwards. Both sides work on fixing it. Once they communicate they work one each side to develop a new form of space jump travel, and shep is reunited with romance after about a decade.

5) shepard gets angry and punches catalyst--which then explodes in electricity and shepard dies (reapers win).

6) Loyal LI could sacrifice themselves with perfect paragon or perfect renegade. IF Shepard remained loyal to original LI, or had no LI before ME2 LI then that LI defies all odds and makes it to citadel behind Shepard, to show up after first conversation with Illusive man and Anderson.

And of course cut scenes of each species, Shepard's family (and potentially kids) would be great and about 2 hours of side quests afterwards dealing with aftermath (setting up galactic government and such depending on ending).

Modifié par infraredman, 11 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[PsychoWARD23]

How could they make ME4 without the relays?


(didn't read the wall)

[Menagra]

But you know what annoys me more than Mass Effect 3's ending? People insinuating that coming up with ideas for how to fix it (or having polls and the like to get bioware's attention to hopefully fix it) is "low" and "arrogant".

It's an honest reaction to something many were emotionally invested in.

[Spyre2001]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

How could they make ME4 without the relays?


(didn't read the wall)

Why does some many people seem to think that without the Relays the is no Space Travel?

It's mentioned in The Arrival DLC that destroying the Relay will only delay the Reapers by a few months or years because they would have to travel at "Regular FTL speeds" to reach the next closest Relay. Also when traveling between star systems in the game you don't use the Relays, you only use them when traveling between sectors.

You can think of the Relays as a Subways system. There are only a few entry points scattered around the city and they make travel a lot faster then walking the whole way. But if they go down you can still walk there is just may take you the whole day to walk there if it was really far.

With the Relays gone they won't be crossing the whole galaxy in minutes or hours anymore. It may take them years or decades to cross the galaxy but given that many of the other species live for hundreds of years it likely they could live long enough to survive that trip.

There has to be some form of FTL travel besides the relays otherwise it would have taken hours, days, or possibly months to get from a Relay located on the outer edge of Sol to Earth. Solar systems are HUGE and even at the speed of light it takes 8 minutes to go from the Sun to Earth and that's a fairly short distance. To reach Pluto it takes over 5.3 hours.