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Galaxy state after Relays explosions.


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#1
Nefelius

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Let's be clear once and for all.

As Arrival DLC clearly states - the explosion caused by destruction of a Relay causes entire system to be destroyed aswell. As we see in any colored ending in ME3 every single Relay is exploded to bits causing each a shockwave we see in the Galaxy Map. 

So all the delusions about sranded fleets and nations cut off each other - simply do not make sense. You argue over nothing. There is no other life in the galaxy except the Normandy crew.

 The blast we see on Earth is coming from the Citadel not a destroyed Relay. The normandy crew got hit by space magic beam while transitting via relay thus escaping alive. 

Modifié par Nefelius, 11 mars 2012 - 06:09 .


#2
Lyrandori

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Ok ok... a few things...

Let's presume that indeed all the Relays of the whole Network in the Milky Way exploded with the force of a Supernova, effectively destroying (more like annihilating on an atomic level) every single cosmic bodies in the system that those Relays where located in...

Ok, it would indeed, mean that those specific systems do not exist anymore, period, and agreed right there. That unfortunately includes Earth, everything and everyone (including floating dead bodies freezing at the vacuum of space from exploded ships) as well.

Now, with that in mind, the Mass Relays Network does not cover each and every single star systems of the entire Milky Way galaxy. From ME1 to ME3, if you combine all the systems we visited via the Network of the Relays including the unique systems to each titles of the trilogy, it'd imply that not even half of the "explorable" galaxy was Networked by the relays. Ok, let's PRETEND that if we did include all the inevitable unknown/yet-to-be-found Relays, and let's pretend that including those then maybe half of the galaxy's worth of star systems were indeed Networked, then...

Well then it means that whatever endings we chose, there's bound to be Relays-less, since-forever isolated star systems out there in the galaxy. And that within those unexplored (due to having no relays to start with) systems there has to be a few species around, perhaps still living on their original home world in any given state of evolution that you can come up with, be it equivalent to what we are today, still probing our neighboring celestial bodies, or still trying to figure out how to fly or how to use water vapor. In my mind it is clear that, sure, some relays were yet to be found, that the whole Network had never fully been explored at least not in "our" current cycle. And that I do believe that some species out there weren't even aware that intelligent extra-terrestrial life existed to start with, much less that a galactic-wide war was raging perhaps not even far from them without them even realizing it, or perhaps seeing it under some form via their only telescopes or something but unable to comprehend the meanings or implications, much less to communicate, if anything.

I mean seriously, it happens in the Milky Way, which just happens to have something along the lines of 300 or 400 BILLION stars in it, just.... try to picture that in your mind (by "your" I mean literally anyone out there whom might not have considered this in the first place). Oh, and, in the game, the Raloi race, was recently discovered, remember, they had been found from a recently discovered relay (surely). It proves that there's some unknown races out there, some WITH a relay in their star system, some surely without any.

Modifié par Lyrandori, 11 mars 2012 - 06:22 .


#3
gmboy902

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 If BioWare could accept the gaping plot holes that Astroboy introduced, I'm sure they could make room for letting the relays explode on a smaller scale.

What it does show, however, is that even when they were making the Arrival DLC they still hadn't figured out one of the biggest aspects of the end of ME3.

#4
Starspiral

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The writers appear to have decided to change direction (viv a vis the ending) after ME2, consequently they painted themselves into a corner.
When they realised this, rather than going back and rewriting it, they screwed the pooch instead.

#5
clonedoriginzero

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well that seems like a very narrow way of thinking.

just because the alpha relay blew up with the force of a supernova doesnt mean every relay would. especially since this seemed like a simple self destruct sequence. not a "blow up the system" explosion. if you look at it, the way the relays explode is like a standard explosion, the alpha relays supernova looked significantly different.

you could either assume that they were designed with that self destruct function, or that since they shot out energy to the next relay to do the chain reaction, most of the energy was shot out thus not causing a supernova reaction.

so basically, its really easy to assume that everyone is fine and the relays blowing up didnt kill everyone.

#6
Zyrious

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Nefelius wrote...

Let's be clear once and for all.

As Arrival DLC clearly states - the explosion caused by destruction of a Relay causes entire system to be destroyed aswell. As we see in any colored ending in ME3 every single Relay is exploded to bits causing each a shockwave we see in the Galaxy Map. 

So all the delusions about sranded fleets and nations cut off each other - simply do not make sense. You argue over nothing. There is no other life in the galaxy except the Normandy crew.

 The blast we see on Earth is coming from the Citadel not a destroyed Relay. The normandy crew got hit by space magic beam while transitting via relay thus escaping alive. 


Read your intel reports and listen to the characters!  As you get higher EMS they learn to control the reaction and make sure it only targets Reapers. This is why with low EMS Earth is destroyed by it, and with high EMS it passes over both the cities and organics completely harmlessly. It's a controlled reaction of overloading the relays, and all of the energy is used for the programmed purpose, instead of it just being released in a raw fashion ala arrival. As the relay is destroyed we see an identical blast to the one from the citadel, the citadel is also a relay, they're all doing the same thing.

Modifié par Zyrious, 11 mars 2012 - 06:30 .


#7
Superninfreak

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clonedoriginzero wrote...

well that seems like a very narrow way of thinking.

just because the alpha relay blew up with the force of a supernova doesnt mean every relay would. especially since this seemed like a simple self destruct sequence. not a "blow up the system" explosion. if you look at it, the way the relays explode is like a standard explosion, the alpha relays supernova looked significantly different.

you could either assume that they were designed with that self destruct function, or that since they shot out energy to the next relay to do the chain reaction, most of the energy was shot out thus not causing a supernova reaction.

so basically, its really easy to assume that everyone is fine and the relays blowing up didnt kill everyone.


The thing is, the game gives us no indication of this. The game never tells us this, so it's really bad writing.

Besides, it seems strange that a blasts that are so big that they're visible on the galaxy map wouldn't cause damage to the systems.

#8
suusuuu

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look at the shockwaves

http://i.imgur.com/8hE9E.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UC2H7.jpg

despite what Lyrandori said, it's safe to assume that EVERYONE WE KNEW, every major species, since all of them had a mass relay in their system, the asari, the humans, turians, krogans, quarians, they are all gone. i don't think anyone really cares about the species that don't have mass relays in their system and were undiscovered -- because we don't get to interact with them anyway. even if it's a shockwave made of candy and love, it will still kill given the speed at which it spread.

Modifié par suusuuu, 11 mars 2012 - 06:36 .


#9
The Angry One

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Zyrious wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

Let's be clear once and for all.

As Arrival DLC clearly states - the explosion caused by destruction of a Relay causes entire system to be destroyed aswell. As we see in any colored ending in ME3 every single Relay is exploded to bits causing each a shockwave we see in the Galaxy Map. 

So all the delusions about sranded fleets and nations cut off each other - simply do not make sense. You argue over nothing. There is no other life in the galaxy except the Normandy crew.

 The blast we see on Earth is coming from the Citadel not a destroyed Relay. The normandy crew got hit by space magic beam while transitting via relay thus escaping alive. 


Read your intel reports and listen to the characters!  As you get higher EMS they learn to control the reaction and make sure it only targets Reapers. This is why with low EMS Earth is destroyed by it, and with high EMS it passes over both the cities and organics completely harmlessly. It's a controlled reaction of overloading the relays, and all of the energy is used for the programmed purpose, instead of it just being released in a raw fashion ala arrival. As the relay is destroyed we see an identical blast to the one from the citadel, the citadel is also a relay, they're all doing the same thing.


That refers to the pulse itself, the detonation of the relays is entirely different, and will obliterate star systems.
We murdered billions at the behest of the Catalyst.

#10
clonedoriginzero

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suusuuu wrote...

look at the shockwaves

http://i.imgur.com/8hE9E.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UC2H7.jpg

despite what Lyrandori said, it's safe to assume that EVERYONE WE KNEW, every major species, since all of them had a mass relay in their system, the asari, the humans, turians, krogans, quarians, they are all gone. i don't think anyone really cares about the species that don't have mass relays in their system and were undiscovered -- because we don't get to interact with them anyway. even if it's a shockwave made of candy and love, it will still kill given the speed at which it spread.


thats not a super nova. thats the anti-reaper signal / magical dna changer signal / reaper control signal being sent out using the energy of the self destructing relays.

its not a super nova that kills everything. i mean the endings make no sense, but that would be completely pointless.

you're basing this entire theory on the fact that the ALPHA relay chain reacted and did a super nova, when thats what they intended to do with crashing the moon into it. you can blow things up and not have them react in that manner. hell you could blow up a nuke with C4 and the nuke probably wouldnt go off, it'd be destroyed, but it wouldnt cause a nuclear exposion (well probably not)

#11
Zyrious

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The Angry One wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

Let's be clear once and for all.

As Arrival DLC clearly states - the explosion caused by destruction of a Relay causes entire system to be destroyed aswell. As we see in any colored ending in ME3 every single Relay is exploded to bits causing each a shockwave we see in the Galaxy Map. 

So all the delusions about sranded fleets and nations cut off each other - simply do not make sense. You argue over nothing. There is no other life in the galaxy except the Normandy crew.

 The blast we see on Earth is coming from the Citadel not a destroyed Relay. The normandy crew got hit by space magic beam while transitting via relay thus escaping alive. 


Read your intel reports and listen to the characters!  As you get higher EMS they learn to control the reaction and make sure it only targets Reapers. This is why with low EMS Earth is destroyed by it, and with high EMS it passes over both the cities and organics completely harmlessly. It's a controlled reaction of overloading the relays, and all of the energy is used for the programmed purpose, instead of it just being released in a raw fashion ala arrival. As the relay is destroyed we see an identical blast to the one from the citadel, the citadel is also a relay, they're all doing the same thing.


That refers to the pulse itself, the detonation of the relays is entirely different, and will obliterate star systems.
We murdered billions at the behest of the Catalyst.


Watch again, the Citadel is also a relay, and the catalyst is used to make all of the relays galaxy wide replicate the energy wave. It uses all the energy in the relay for that "explosion" of energy, which with high EMS is only harmful to reapers (and geth for some reason...). Or it rewrites DNA for some weird reason..... Regrdless, when you see the relay explode you see all of its energy released in the same fashion as the catalyst/citadel rather than the big white supernova. Its energy is being released in an entirely different fashion to Arrival.

#12
MedhiaNox

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They're like "Eezo" EMP pulses - they're not explosions.

And - supernovas wouldn't even appear on a "galaxy" map - let alone the "ULTRA" pulses that we are shown absorbing easily... 100,000 stars each from each relay point.

You EMP-ed the galaxy destroying all Mass Effect based technology.... the Catalyst even suggested that not all technology would be destroyed.

The galaxy could be up and running again in a hundred years or so... and, either 1) They design ME tech without Reapers or 2) They find a new way for interstellar travel.

There was absolutely NOTHING about the ending that said - "We destroyed all live."

I didn't like the endings... but this thread is making problems that never existed.  (As if we need more than what we're given.) 

Modifié par MedhiaNox, 11 mars 2012 - 06:49 .


#13
Zyrious

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MedhiaNox wrote...

They're like "Eezo" EMP pulses - they're not explosions.

And - supernovas wouldn't even appear on a "galaxy" map - let alone the "ULTRA" pulses that we are shown absorbing easily... 100,000 stars each from each relay point.

You EMP-ed the galaxy destroying all Mass Effect based technology.... the Catalyst even suggested that not all technology would be destroyed.

The galaxy could be up and running again in a hundred years or so... and, either 1) They design ME tech without Reapers or 2) They find a new way for interstellar travel.

There was absolutely NOTHING about the ending that said - "We destroyed all live."

I didn't like the endings... but this thread is making problems that never existed.  (As if we need more than what we're given.) 


If your EMS is too low then the "Energy Pulse" is too raw and destroys everything regardless, Earth is seen completely destroyed and all life wiped out. If your EMS is high enough though you read intel that they are improving the crucibles design to make sure the energy is controlled and targetted only to reapers(but the relays are destroyed in the process of using all of their energy to emit and transmit the energy wave)

Modifié par Zyrious, 11 mars 2012 - 06:51 .


#14
Paulinius

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clonedoriginzero wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

look at the shockwaves

http://i.imgur.com/8hE9E.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UC2H7.jpg

despite what Lyrandori said, it's safe to assume that EVERYONE WE KNEW, every major species, since all of them had a mass relay in their system, the asari, the humans, turians, krogans, quarians, they are all gone. i don't think anyone really cares about the species that don't have mass relays in their system and were undiscovered -- because we don't get to interact with them anyway. even if it's a shockwave made of candy and love, it will still kill given the speed at which it spread.


thats not a super nova. thats the anti-reaper signal / magical dna changer signal / reaper control signal being sent out using the energy of the self destructing relays.

its not a super nova that kills everything. i mean the endings make no sense, but that would be completely pointless.

you're basing this entire theory on the fact that the ALPHA relay chain reacted and did a super nova, when thats what they intended to do with crashing the moon into it. you can blow things up and not have them react in that manner. hell you could blow up a nuke with C4 and the nuke probably wouldnt go off, it'd be destroyed, but it wouldnt cause a nuclear exposion (well probably not)


Then why was Joker frantically piloting the Normandy to escape the shockwave?

If the shockwave was harmless, how did it cause massive damage to one of the most advanced ships in the galaxy with upgraded kinetic barriers and diamond armor?

#15
clonedoriginzero

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Paulinius wrote...

clonedoriginzero wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

look at the shockwaves

http://i.imgur.com/8hE9E.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UC2H7.jpg

despite what Lyrandori said, it's safe to assume that EVERYONE WE KNEW, every major species, since all of them had a mass relay in their system, the asari, the humans, turians, krogans, quarians, they are all gone. i don't think anyone really cares about the species that don't have mass relays in their system and were undiscovered -- because we don't get to interact with them anyway. even if it's a shockwave made of candy and love, it will still kill given the speed at which it spread.


thats not a super nova. thats the anti-reaper signal / magical dna changer signal / reaper control signal being sent out using the energy of the self destructing relays.

its not a super nova that kills everything. i mean the endings make no sense, but that would be completely pointless.

you're basing this entire theory on the fact that the ALPHA relay chain reacted and did a super nova, when thats what they intended to do with crashing the moon into it. you can blow things up and not have them react in that manner. hell you could blow up a nuke with C4 and the nuke probably wouldnt go off, it'd be destroyed, but it wouldnt cause a nuclear exposion (well probably not)


Then why was Joker frantically piloting the Normandy to escape the shockwave?

If the shockwave was harmless, how did it cause massive damage to one of the most advanced ships in the galaxy with upgraded kinetic barriers and diamond armor?

because it was poorly written nonsense.

#16
Taleroth

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suusuuu wrote...

look at the shockwaves

http://i.imgur.com/8hE9E.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UC2H7.jpg.

Those aren't shockwaves. Shockwaves are a wave of force. That's the same energy you see in the preceeding scenes. You actually see one of those waves hit earth from the Crucible. Did it look like it was being destroyed?

#17
Zyrious

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Paulinius wrote...

clonedoriginzero wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

look at the shockwaves

http://i.imgur.com/8hE9E.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UC2H7.jpg

despite what Lyrandori said, it's safe to assume that EVERYONE WE KNEW, every major species, since all of them had a mass relay in their system, the asari, the humans, turians, krogans, quarians, they are all gone. i don't think anyone really cares about the species that don't have mass relays in their system and were undiscovered -- because we don't get to interact with them anyway. even if it's a shockwave made of candy and love, it will still kill given the speed at which it spread.


thats not a super nova. thats the anti-reaper signal / magical dna changer signal / reaper control signal being sent out using the energy of the self destructing relays.

its not a super nova that kills everything. i mean the endings make no sense, but that would be completely pointless.

you're basing this entire theory on the fact that the ALPHA relay chain reacted and did a super nova, when thats what they intended to do with crashing the moon into it. you can blow things up and not have them react in that manner. hell you could blow up a nuke with C4 and the nuke probably wouldnt go off, it'd be destroyed, but it wouldnt cause a nuclear exposion (well probably not)


Then why was Joker frantically piloting the Normandy to escape the shockwave?

If the shockwave was harmless, how did it cause massive damage to one of the most advanced ships in the galaxy with upgraded kinetic barriers and diamond armor?


He was mid transit as the pulse was being transmitted, one cant predict the effect that would have while being in a mass effect corridor. Remember the process of transmitting the pulse also destroys the relays, so the relays used to maintain said mass effect corridor the normandy was in were destroyed, so that's kind of a unique situation.

The real question is why the hell joker was running in the first place.

Modifié par Zyrious, 11 mars 2012 - 06:57 .


#18
Galf706

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I assumed Normandy damage came from force of leaving relay transit suddenly, not the beam effect. Still not clear where they were going though.

#19
iamheartbroken

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It doesn't show the Relay exploding like the one you destroyed in the DLC on ME2... it really looks more like it's breaking apart than exploding... you're not going to sacrifice yourself to save Earth and then have the relay explode and wipe out the solar system.

Don't get me wrong, my name says it all really.

Also I wouldn't worry about how the Normandy got crashed, I'd worry more about why my loyal pilot was travelling through a Relay in the first place and seemingly abandoned the allied fleet... oh, and me too.

#20
Ghost Rider LSOV

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Galf706 wrote...

I assumed Normandy damage came from force of leaving relay transit suddenly, not the beam effect. Still not clear where they were going though.


Going to Makes-No-Sense Land.

Even if they thought Shepard was dead after Harbinger's beam, they'd have still fought and not left the fleets.

Afterwards, when Hackett speaks to Shepard, they should have listened and stayed at stand-by for a rescue (remember Joker saying he wouldn't lose Shepard again, etc?).
Since the battle outside is still going on, when the Catalyst talks to Shepard, the Normandy should be out there regardless.

And then they somehow leave for no reason... and with your squadmates too...

Because ...BioWare writers.

Modifié par Ghost Rider LSOV, 11 mars 2012 - 07:06 .


#21
Lambda Diamond

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Nefelius wrote...

Let's be clear once and for all.

As Arrival DLC clearly states - the explosion caused by destruction of a Relay causes entire system to be destroyed aswell. As we see in any colored ending in ME3 every single Relay is exploded to bits causing each a shockwave we see in the Galaxy Map. 

So all the delusions about sranded fleets and nations cut off each other - simply do not make sense. You argue over nothing. There is no other life in the galaxy except the Normandy crew.

 The blast we see on Earth is coming from the Citadel not a destroyed Relay. The normandy crew got hit by space magic beam while transitting via relay thus escaping alive. 


Not true because you can see earth after the relays are detroyed because it affects the reapers aswell the Normandy would be destroyed since the explosion from the asteriod hitting the relay was massive. We can assume that the relays are just being destroyed the proper way, Think of a building for demolition with a team it falls properly and does not hit any other buidlings. The other way is mass destruction.

#22
Aspex

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Oh dear. This seems to have been made in response to my thread when I asked you to make legitimate arguments based on what the contributors there presented.

So far in that thread and here, I have seen nothing from you save the persistent claim that there is no life in the galaxy based on the events of Arrival, even though people here and there have given plenty of counter-arguments and evidence otherwise. Please respond based on what we have given you.

#23
madmanx25

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Considering the crucible was compared to the nuclear bomb at world war 2 in the game. Even if the relays destoryed the systems they in habit, like a nuclear bomb, a small amount of survivors could be found in the system. No on returns to the batterian colony at the end of arrival because the relay was destroyed. So there is no way of knowing if there were any survivng people. Plus the secret ending shows what we think is commander sheperd is still alive. So if the series was to continue prohaps it would be a bit like a post-apocolyptic/space opera setting. Which could be cool cause I never heard of one of those.

#24
Youmu

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If the relays blew up like the one in Arrival, you wouldn't see the MAGICAL ELECTRONIC PLANTS in the Synthesis ending -- the pixie dust wave would have obliterated the plants, not make them half-synthetic.

#25
Natureguy85

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Zyrious wrote...

Read your intel reports and listen to the characters!  As you get higher EMS they learn to control the reaction and make sure it only targets Reapers. This is why with low EMS Earth is destroyed by it, and with high EMS it passes over both the cities and organics completely harmlessly. It's a controlled reaction of overloading the relays, and all of the energy is used for the programmed purpose, instead of it just being released in a raw fashion ala arrival. As the relay is destroyed we see an identical blast to the one from the citadel, the citadel is also a relay, they're all doing the same thing.


And how does a higher EMS actually do that? The size of your fleet has nothing to do with the catalyst signal. That disconnect is really annoying.