13 réponses à ce sujet

[Caz Neerg]

 Right up until the point where Shepard starts rising up on the platform into the final choice area, the game was as close to perfect a science fiction story as has ever been told in gaming.  It was a moving, masterfully written capstone to what is arguably the greatest sci-fi trilogy of all time, in any form of media.  Shepard, sitting next to Anderson, two half-broken titans in the final stretch to becoming legend, staring out at Earth, it was truly beautiful.

Then the platform started to rise, and we suddenly switched to the cliff notes version of the story.  Everything about the ending is something which could have worked, and could have fit Mass Effect, with the proper context, but none of that context was there.  It was like somebody had written a thirty page final act, then only implemented the first two pages, a couple pages from somewhere in the middle, and then the last page.  It was confused, and borderline incoherent.  Shepard wasn't even given the chance to question the choices offered, and possibly be convinced that there was no time left to do anything else, he was simply given very brief descriptions with no real discussion, and then time to choose.  

And then there are the cutscenes which follow the choices; the primary problem with these is that their content doesn't actually reflect what the Catalyst said was going to happen, with the exception of the destroy ending.  It appears that the Mass Relays are destroyed in each, when the choices presented them as only being destroyed in the, well, destroy ending.  Why would control or synthesis lead to relays blowing up?

Then there are the two largest problems with the ending, the Normany situation and the lack of anything resembling an epilogue.  In regard to the Normandy, all we have is more questions, which is not what you are supposed to get from the end of a series.  Why was the ship in space at all, rather than on Earth?  Why was it fleeing the shockwave?  Why were all the members of the crew who we knew for a fact had been on Earth back on board?  Absolutely nothing about the sequence made sense, not because it was necessarily poorly written, but because we weren't provided with any amount of context for it.

As for the lack of an epilogue, it seems like an amazing oversight.  They did it with Dragon Age, and I seriously doubt it costs that much in either dollars or time to give us some text boxes which outline the near term impacts of our more major choices.  There weren't actually that many of them in the game, and a paragraph each for the various outcomes of the very limited number of big choices would probably satisfy most people on that issue.

It makes perfect sense that the Paragon ending would involve Shepard sacrificing himself for the greater good.  It is the Paragon thing to do, and I don't think anyone reasonable would actually question that.  It makes perfect sense that the Renegade option would involve him sacrificing something else in order to stay alive.  It isn't the choices themselves which are the problem.  All of what we were given could make sense, with proper context.  It isn't a question of a need to change the ending, it is simply a matter of needing to *finish* it.

[Taleroth]

He didn't say that destroying them would destroy the relays. He said releasing the energy of the crucible would destroy the relays. Which is what all three endings do.

[Warhawk7137]

This is what I was saying last night - the problem is that the ending is about three times shorter than it should be, and is monumentally ambiguous.

[Caz Neerg]

Taleroth wrote...

He didn't say that destroying them would destroy the relays. He said releasing the energy of the crucible would destroy the relays. Which is what all three endings do.

I missed that part.  That only takes care of the least of the problems though.  The conversation was still insufficient to create a scenario where it made sense for Shepard to accept those choices without a peep, the Normandy flight still lacks any context which would allow it to make sense, and I have yet to hear any logical explanation for the lack of any epilogue content.

[robarcool]

Caz Neerg wrote...

It makes perfect sense that the Paragon ending would involve Shepard sacrificing himself for the greater good.  It is the Paragon thing to do, and I don't think anyone reasonable would actually question that.  It makes perfect sense that the Renegade option would involve him sacrificing something else in order to stay alive.  It isn't the choices themselves which are the problem.  All of what we were given could make sense, with proper context.  It isn't a question of a need to change the ending, it is simply a matter of needing to *finish* it.

There is no mention of whether Shepard will stay alive when he destroys the reapers (although he lives enventually, which is weird). Even the catalyst says that Shepard will be killed himself if the destroy option is chosen and so, I don't necessarily think that the destroy option is the renegade one, since he took up that choice even after knowing that he will be destroyed. In my opinion, there isn't any renegade ending. One would choose destroy ending to make sure that no synthetic life is left because organics do clash with synthetics (if Shepard hasn't united geth and quarians. If he has, he should most likely choose other 2 endings).

Edit: I don't like the endings in the way they were presented. I also totally dislike the stargazer epilogue. I would have preferred to see what the people in the galaxy were doing after the ending, the galaxy that Shepard saved rather than hearing some dialogue from someone totally unrelated.

Modifié par robarcool, 11 mars 2012 - 06:49 .

[Leafs43]

A master AI controlling the reapers, in the citadel of all places, spits in the face of everything previously learned about them.

[HeyUder]

"Shepard wasn't even given the chance to question the choices offered, and possibly be convinced that there was no time left to do anything else, he was simply given very brief descriptions with no real discussion, and then time to choose. "

Very well said, right here. If I could ask a lot of questions and get very reasonably convinced by the Catalyst that the way it stated the future of synthetic/organic interaction would be is indeed the path we're always on, I'd take it.

I think what was missing in his explanation was a history of the Reapers themselves. I felt as if an extensive explanation of them would've done a lot for the ending.

As for the mass relays, I have two possible reasons why they were destroyed:

First and foremost, the energy of each wave was absolutely tremendous. The relays started to turn as incredible speed once the energy was beamed to them. Clearly the architects of the Crucible and Catalyst knew that this sacrifice would have to be made to change the cycle. As to why the blasts kill or don't kill organics / synthetics (depending on your choice)? It's all contingent on your Shepard.

The War Asset number, IMO, was merely a tangible reflection of Shepard's intangibilities - his abilities to convince dssenting peoples to come together. If you are successful at it, you can save the galaxy or a lot of the galaxy / yourself. In other words, and this puts it in a corny way, "Shepard's various forms of love (depending on your choice)" save or destroy the galaxy / Earth.

The second option is that, given the defeat of the Reapers, Reaper tech itself gets destroyed. So the relays and Citadel get blown up. I'm more in line with the first one, though.

I haven't bought that this ending is bad. It leaves a lot of room for interpretation and is ambiguous - the problem is, is that it's TOO ambiguous. I cannot accept or fathom the Normandy part of the ending, even if it were to be explained. I'm sorry, but the chances of them being in the Normandy, combined with the entirely laughable chances of them landing on another Earth Like planet..... while traveling at faster than light speed... it's too much to bear. The only explanation I can think of for this is that Shepard's energies in the blasts "guided" the Normandy to safety. But again, it's ambiguous to the point where all of this is conjecture.

A good ambiguous ending explains just enough and leaves a few core points up to you, with various realistic possibilities. This ending could've been very thought provoking and acceptable, IMO, but they rushed it. It was like a student turned in a paper that showed shades of writing something very good, but the leaps in logic made were not sound by any measure of common sense. For that reason, the ending gets a C- from me.

Modifié par HeyUder, 11 mars 2012 - 06:56 .

[Belhawk]

in ME 1 & 2 u had good endings and had to work hard for a bad ending, and they only gave bad indings in ME 3. Reapers reaper the galaxy, everyone turned into Saren, or the collapse of galactic civilization. We exspected a good ending like we got in the 1st to games and didn't get it. BW has effectively ended the ME universe game series.

[GodChildInTheMachine]

I agree with all of your points, but you do understand that everything you mentioned is based in critical analysis. So I think what you are truthfully pointing out is exactly why it IS objectively bad. Maybe it would have been good in the context of a completely different story, but not in this one.

[mattahraw]

I agree OP. the ending could have worked, but it felt mostly unexplained and unfinished. No consequences for curing the genophage. If you choose to kill all synthetics, you don't even see a single geth, or edi, die to show what your actions have done.

Similarly if you choose to control, does that corrupt humanity, like we've been told for three games it would?

The concept could work if it was given more of an explination and a proper epilogue.

I liked the synthesis ending but apart from joker's eyes i have no idea what has happened and what my choices actually did to the galaxy.

[Caz Neerg]

robarcool wrote...

Caz Neerg wrote...

It makes perfect sense that the Paragon ending would involve Shepard sacrificing himself for the greater good.  It is the Paragon thing to do, and I don't think anyone reasonable would actually question that.  It makes perfect sense that the Renegade option would involve him sacrificing something else in order to stay alive.  It isn't the choices themselves which are the problem.  All of what we were given could make sense, with proper context.  It isn't a question of a need to change the ending, it is simply a matter of needing to *finish* it.

There is no mention of whether Shepard will stay alive when he destroys the reapers (although he lives enventually, which is weird). Even the catalyst says that Shepard will be killed himself if the destroy option is chosen and so, I don't necessarily think that the destroy option is the renegade one, since he took up that choice even after knowing that he will be destroyed. In my opinion, there isn't any renegade ending. One would choose destroy ending to make sure that no synthetic life is left because organics do clash with synthetics (if Shepard hasn't united geth and quarians. If he has, he should most likely choose other 2 endings).

Edit: I don't like the endings in the way they were presented. I also totally dislike the stargazer epilogue. I would have preferred to see what the people in the galaxy were doing after the ending, the galaxy that Shepard saved rather than hearing some dialogue from someone totally unrelated.

Actually, if I remember correctly, the destroy choice is the only one where the the Catalyst *doesn't* explicitly say you will die if you choose it.  The only thing that even makes it look like Shepard might die from that choice is his bizarre decision to stand practically on top of the tube before he shoots it.  I'm pretty sure that, despite his inability to hit the broad side of a barn at the start of the first Mass Effect, his shooting skills are good enough for a distance shot by the end of ME3.

[WeAreLegionWTF]

i agree op, the problem is that not a single choice made up to that point apparently mattered, and no results from any choice was mentioned. i brought peace to the geth and quarian, helped wrex cure his people, left no one behind in me2(on insanity), and the bottom line was this....

[robarcool]

Caz Neerg wrote...

robarcool wrote...


Actually, if I remember correctly, the destroy choice is the only one where the the Catalyst *doesn't* explicitly say you will die if you choose it.  The only thing that even makes it look like Shepard might die from that choice is his bizarre decision to stand practically on top of the tube before he shoots it.  I'm pretty sure that, despite his inability to hit the broad side of a barn at the start of the first Mass Effect, his shooting skills are good enough for a distance shot by the end of ME3.

Actually, if I remember correctly, the destroy choice is the only one
where the the Catalyst *doesn't* explicitly say you will die if you
choose it.  The only thing that even makes it look like Shepard might
die from that choice is his bizarre decision to stand practically on top
of the tube before he shoots it.  I'm pretty sure that, despite his
inability to hit the broad side of a barn at the start of the first Mass
Effect, his shooting skills are good enough for a distance shot by the
end of ME3.

So you still believe the destroy choice is the renegade one?

Modifié par robarcool, 11 mars 2012 - 07:15 .

[Caz Neerg]

WeAreLegionWTF wrote...

i agree op, the problem is that not a single choice made up to that point apparently mattered, and no results from any choice was mentioned. i brought peace to the geth and quarian, helped wrex cure his people, left no one behind in me2(on insanity), and the bottom line was this....

But if we are being realistic about it, none of those specific choices were ever going to matter for the "main" ending, they are all the kind of things to be dealt with in a series of text box epilogues, possibly narrated by the same voice as primary codex entries, which are relatively inexpensive to provide, and their lack is very puzzling.

robarcool wrote...

So you still believe the destroy choice is the renegade one?

I think they made it very clear, when they color coded both the lighting over the various paths, and the explosions.  The path to the tube had a red tint, and led to red explosions, the path over the control option had a blue tint, and led to blue explosions.