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Above average, but not THAT great a game.


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#101
Brian Chung

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Came99 wrote...

Brian, please read my response:

1) Is it not correct that the targeting system is bugged when you cant cycle all targets even though they are evenly closed to you?


No, sounds like it's Working As Designed.

For why cycling targets using the D-Pad doesn't always work, my guess based on reported behaviour is that is based on line of sight from the camera, and builds the list to cycle through based on their left to right positioning on the screen.  So if some object is blocking to another target, it doesn't count when building the list. 

Sure we could just capture every hostile in the area, but what if there are some off in the distance or behind a wall?  Invisible ones?  The targetting can also target interactive placeables or corpses, want to loot a body in the middle of a battle?  There comes a point where we'd never get a satisfactory filter for every situation.

Came99 wrote...

2) Your workaround make it impossible to use the hotbuttons, because the chosen target doesnt stick. You chose a target through the radial wheel, unpause for 1/10 of a second to push a hotbutton and the target already changed.. Your only option is to do EVERYTHING (both targeting and spellcasting) through the wheel, and that really isnt much fun.


That's your opinion, I have no problem pausing all the time to select what spells or abilities to use, and I can still have fun playing this game.

And by the time you get to L20, you'll end up with a lot of abilities that will never be able to fit on the 6 hot buttons anyway, wizard or warrior.  So you end up using the radial menu regardless.  Might as well get used to it now.

Modifié par Brian Chung, 27 novembre 2009 - 09:07 .


#102
Came99

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Ok Brian. That seems like a bit arrogant answer to me. Why did you implement d-pad cycling and hot-buttons in the first place if you expected them to be useless anyway?
Working as intended? It sound more like "Working as good as we had time for"

Edit: And I can assure you that I had my share of untargetable mobs during my game that wasnt outisde LOS from neither camera or PC, so that does not answer it either.

Modifié par Came99, 27 novembre 2009 - 09:15 .


#103
SirGCal

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Good god there are a bunch of crybaby fanboys that show up to every post that isn't "OMG I love this game".... Grow up. Then the people who think they are 'internet tough guys' and the guys who simply call that every time someone disagrees with them. People (as a whole, a person can be the exception) are soooooo stopid.... Rant over.

As for the OP.I almopst absolutely agree completely... I think many people here are missing the points  you're trying to say. I'm on the PC and nightmare is too weak even. But here's my thoughts on yours:

First the morons who can't read; you were comparing marketing and hype of the games, not the games to DA:O directly... Holy cow...

As for the items:

Came99 wrote...
1) You cant cancel quests and destroy questitems
I have some quests I didnt complete all back in the beginning. I have both plot items and questlogs that will annoy and confuse me all through the game. The option to get rid of those would greatly make navigating through quests less of a hazzle


I agree. Plus this causes some huge bugs because of issues like the Paragon bug. 20 hours of work and it's locking in my still to do when the king is standing right there. Thus preventing continuation of the questline (sometimes). An example of how this is very broken.

Came99 wrote...
2) Not an option to position you men correctly. You cant for instance tell your archer and healer to stay put and then let the rest of the group run freely. Either all freeze or none. IMO thats a design flaw.


I think people don't understand what you're saying... And you are RIGHT, even in the PC version. Sure we can 'hold' everyone then select two or three and say move here or attack this. But you can NOT put two people on a firm 'hold' and have two of them in the free-run mode using their full AI. I wish this was also adressed as I have one of my tanks macroed perfectly but it only works in full-play mode as every time he's on hold, if he gets pushed back or the mob runs, he stops attacking until he's hit (or I micro-manage him again). Pretty cheezy.

Came99 wrote...
3) You cant see who is affected of your spell and how long the duration is. In battle everything ends up being a lot of guessing and assumptions. In a game where strategy and teamwork in your group plays such a big role I consider this a design flaw also.

This is one of my biggest pet pieves. I want a 'target' icon so I can see health without having to look over the mobs head for some little line, see what buffs or debuffs are active, etc.

Came99 wrote...
4) The targeting system is bugged.. at least on the PS3. You dont have the option to log onto a target properly and everytime a mob runs in the way the targets changes. Even if you pause, choose a mob and then release pause and instantly click a hotbutton the spell may hit a totally different mob than intended. In a game where every choice counts in the heat of battle, I consider this a design flaw, and pretty close to being gamebreaking.


This might be your AI setup. If you have enemy->nearest visible doing something above (they go in order from 1 down, by the way, first one per turn that is triggered usually gets done.) then ya it can switch targets. For tanking, I usually use instead 'enemy->target of alistair or target of hero' type options for many parts so they keep beating on the tank's target. That might be part of your problem.

Came99 wrote...
5) Poor quest design. I actually like that you have to think a little yourself and dont just get pointed to the next objective. But when I get a quest in Denerim saying that I should find some guys sextant and I get no information about either the guy or the item I really feel I get TOO little information. I dont know where the guy lived, where he went or anything else. I am just told to find an item but I dont get a SINGLE clue about where to start. I LOVE riddles and I love games where you need to do a bit of thinking yourself, but PLEASE give me a small hint on where to start at least. IMO that is poor questdesign.


My problem here would be; when a quest is completed or updated, it doesn't say right there on the screen which quest it was. And completed ones are not yellow, and you can only tell updated ones if you check the log every single message and keep it cleared out of yellow. Same with the Codex.

Came99 wrote...
That is just SOME of the things I encountered so far. (and we havent even talked graphics) Im not saying it is a bad game, far from.  I am just saying that everytime a game is anticipated prior to release people seem to be FAR more forgiving and reviewers far easier to impress than if it was any oher game. We have seen it many times before. Snap out of it, please.

Dragon Age:Origins: 84/100. Nowhere near 9.5.
GTA IV: Enjoyable game but couldnt beat neither Vice City or San Andreas
Fallout 3: Most hyped game EVER. 7.5/10 tops

I know this is a fanboard, and that I will get flamed, but it had to be said. I am still enjoying the game very much, but it really isnt ALL that good. Personal preference? Maybe and maybe not. If the above things wasnt annoying me I would love the game as much as you.


I think the reviewers are getting just like the general public and their gaming skills are falling sharply. I can't count the 'OMG this is so freaking hard' reviews from "professionals" out there. It had me so excited.... Now nightmare is too easy and I'm looking for mods to really make it challenging. That's pretty sad for reviewers. There's countless things I could see to be improved throughout the interface and game design... I love and am greatly enjoying the game, but  a 9.5 it is not....8 maybe.... However, this just goes to show how crappy other games have been lately. The gaming community is getting dumber and lazier. They can't handle really hard and difficult games. (I mean comeon, when 10 different games are made about jacking someone's ride... Seriously...) FPS games galore that all follow the same idea.... There hasn't been anything innovative in a very long while. Some games are trying and they get ideas... But... Ehhh... Games are almost stupid easy anymore. Gamers used to drive the community, demanding more challenging adventures and combat... Now if they can't whipe out the world in one swing, something is 'wrong' with the game... Or if you are genually skilled at a multiplayer game, people scream cheats and hacks...

MMOs are actually a good example of this. Back in the days of the original Everquest (early days, not the later expansions), It was darn hard to get really good gear. Hords of people love that challenge and flocked to make it one of the most famous MMOs and prove that was the wave of the future. But then they started catering to the easier crowd. People who will line their pockets to look cool in a pretend world instead of actually working for the gear. Now with EQ2 and WoW, you can just buy the gear you want... No skill required. Or you can get PVP gear with just two or three friends. Or you can... whatever... Point is it doesn't take skill anymore. Corporate greed and led to the death of the MMO. Well at least the death of any skilled MMO anyhow. Good lord I remember getting a few hundred people together for some quests in Everquest. Near impossible to do. SOOO much fun.... GMs would actually block out the zones so people didn't swarm in and crash the server while we were fighting the legonds. Now they just send them $20 and get the piece next time the log in or pay someone else $20 to go farm it for them.

Now someone comes out with a good (though not great) Action RPG game with acceptable graphics and what not, and it freaks everyone out cause it's been so long since they had to think for themselves... Reviews like "It's so hard" swarm the net.... "Only the morbidly insane will even try nightmare".... And yet anyone who thinks about their doings can SOLO it in nightmare.... (Using 1/4 of the expected potential of the party). And then you see the floods of 'balance this.. my rogue can't hurt anything, my warrior sucks. I don't want to be forced to use a mage to heal....' from the people who just want to press the X or O or mouse button and have the enemies just explode in front of them so they can go 'Ohhhh..  pretty.... I'm so good.... LOOK MA!' (ok, I went a bit far there but.... It hurts me to see the community fall like it has. and it has....)

Anyhow, sorry about my off-rant but... I agree with you completely. Great fun game... But not stellar. It could be a lot better. Thought it is still better than most that have been made in quite some time. I'd say since Balder's Gate anyhow.... (original). Actually, I still like BG better over this but... This is a bit different with engine tech, lore, etc. so it's nice to have new stuff instead of old DnD 1 rulesets. But the problem with the reviews I think are simply the people. They got soft.

#104
Sylvius the Mad

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SirGCal wrote...

But you can NOT put two people on a firm 'hold' and have two of them in the free-run mode using their full AI.

Yes you can.

Selected characters don't take any actions you don't tell them to, so you just have to keep those characters you want to hold selected.  Select two characters and they'll stay where they are, while the other party members will act according to their AI.

#105
Raxxman

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One of the issues with reviews is they now have shorter time frames and more games to work with back in the old day.

#106
Kimberly Shaw

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Sylvius, you can't do that ("select two characters") with the PS3 version. That's what the OP is playing on and talking about.


#107
Infiniteone2

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Thing that irks me the most is rogues and warriors, and how they "flow" and their "flavor" in combat.

Totally not polished at all.  It's like this game was only designed for you to be a mage.  Like every dev that made this game spent 99% of that time as a mage, and 1% of it as a warrior/rogue.

Not to mention all the bugs, LOTS of bugs, not game breaking, but definetly fun breaking.

#108
MarloMarlo

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Where is the option to delete your own post?

Modifié par MarloMarlo, 27 novembre 2009 - 09:32 .


#109
71Zarathustra71

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I think the OP has achieved something unique. He's managed to bring an 18 month old GTA whine onto a DA:O board.



Bravo!

#110
PT.Vohnsen

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Came99 wrote...

Dragon Age:Origins: 84/100. Nowhere near 9.5.
GTA IV: Enjoyable game but couldnt beat neither Vice City or San Andreas
Fallout 3: Most hyped game EVER. 7.5/10 tops

I know this is a fanboard, and that I will get flamed, but it had to be said. I am still enjoying the game very much, but it really isnt ALL that good. Personal preference? Maybe and maybe not. If the above things wasnt annoying me I would love the game as much as you.


If that is your score, then some games will get a minus score on an 0 - 10 scale.
If you compare this game to others, the general review score is fair IMO.

Your problem is, that you want a perfect game, but i'll tell you one thing...

That's NOT going to happen!

Not these days at least, it was better along with commodore 64 ;)

#111
Came99

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71Zarathustra71 wrote...

I think the OP has achieved something unique. He's managed to bring an 18 month old GTA whine onto a DA:O board.

Bravo!


0/10

Im sorry dude, but we actually managed to clean out this thread for trolls, so you are not welcomed here.

#112
Blue_dodo

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Rainen89 wrote...

I have to agree with the OP on at least one point and while I know this only applies to Xbox/Ps3 users it is very, very stupid. The targetting system is beyond broken. You can have a target "selected" and it will misinterpret that as either no target or auto select some obscure non elite mob that gets the misdirect hex rather than the orange boss. The all or nothing complaint I believe you can do this in tactics for position and if you really wanted to you could just disable it. Requiring micro management but far from game breaking.

The quest item complaint meh i don't see this interfering at all with the game if anything it would be immersion interfering but, yeah. Anyway, targeting system = huge problem and should've been addressed honestly even a pause single target system similar to one already used wih aoe spells and single target buffs/heals would've been wayyyyy better.


it took me a while to figure out but you can lock on by clicking down on the left thumb stick (at least for the 360)

quest items eh, whatever, when have  quest rewards in rpgs been truly grand ?


@ brian

while I understand you points hot mapping and the wheel tends to be bugged at times, sometimes when I pause and oh say select poision I instead get that "can't be done" sound and end up talking to a party members, other times I can't even open the menu, also often times when I am hot mapping and I click R to go to t hehot map  on next  set of button I end up hot mapping them on the first ones, this whil very minor can get irritating.

I have no problems with the wheel but if it where less buggy I would use it more, but I will say this at least I can hot map more then one skill then say...mass effect, now that got irritating :P

Modifié par Blue_dodo, 27 novembre 2009 - 09:53 .


#113
Came99

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it took me a while to figure out but you can lock on by clicking down on the left thumb stick (at least for the 360)



THAT is worth a try. I will do so right away.

#114
Blue_dodo

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yeah it helps, I found it some where in the manual and don't worry about it, I had to read the menu a few times, once you figure the controls out they really don't feel clunky at least from my perspective

#115
Sylvius the Mad

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Kimberly Shaw wrote...

Sylvius, you can't do that ("select two characters") with the PS3 version. That's what the OP is playing on and talking about.

That's a feature that was removed from the consoles, then.  I couldn't have known that.

But, he also said it was impossible on the PC, and it certainly is not.

#116
AgenTBC

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This is so very odd. I completely agree with the OPs point that DA:O, while a good game, has some significant and serious flaws. But then he lists a bunch of ridiculously petty objections which have no bearing on what the actual flaws are.



Weird.

#117
iLoveDragons

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Uhm... I liked the game. I had maybe one or two problems with bugs, that while annoying did not take away from the game as a whole. I think the Pro's here clearly overshadow the cons.



And I would give DAO a 9.5 out of 10. But that is just me.

#118
Photon_Man62

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Actually all three of those games are my favourites in the series, I think Dragon Age is incredible, that GTA IV is the best GTA yet and that Fallout 3 is the best Fallout yet.

#119
SirGCal

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

SirGCal wrote...

But you can NOT put two people on a firm 'hold' and have two of them in the free-run mode using their full AI.

Yes you can.

Selected characters don't take any actions you don't tell them to, so you just have to keep those characters you want to hold selected.  Select two characters and they'll stay where they are, while the other party members will act according to their AI.



No you can NOT. Selecting and keeping them selected is not putting them in a hold... If I have my mage selected and am just selecting range attacks, she's not going to be healing unless I micro manage her alone. If I let her run free, she's going to move more often than I want. I want her fat but to sit where I put it, on hold, using the hold mode, and do her macros while others run free... Can NOT do that.

Modifié par SirGCal, 27 novembre 2009 - 11:32 .


#120
Sylvius the Mad

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SirGCal wrote...

No you can NOT. Selecting and keeping them selected is not putting them in a hold... If I have my mage selected and am just selecting range attacks, she's not going to be healing unless I micro manage her alone. If I let her run free, she's going to move more often than I want. I want her fat but to sit where I put it, on hold, using the hold mode, and do her macros while others run free... Can NOT do that.

I thought you didn't want her to do anything - just hold position.

If you want her to use her tactics instructions, but not change position, doesn't the 'Default" or "Defensive" behaviour option do that?

#121
thebogle5

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Man, you talk **** about this, GTA and Fallout 3? Seriously, what's a "great" game in your opinion?

#122
athemeus2

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Came99 wrote...

The PS3 argument:

1) I dont see why it shouldnt be possible to have a well functioning targeting system just because I am playing on a PS3. I dont buy that argument


Well, I have a 360 and a nice PC. I would have preferred to play on my Xbox, since it's hooked up to my nice 40" HDTV. Buuut, I went for the PC. While I won't make an excuse for the console controls being less than optimal, the flat out reality is that a keyboard and mouse provides much greater depth than a controller. It's just a reality. Hot buttons, precise selection; it's just *better*.

#123
GoldenusG

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I'll agree with the Original Poster, though for different reasons.



My reason its not a great game? The story. Its a tired old beast that has been dragged out more times than I've sworn at Windows. It offers very little thats new. Furthermore, I find the pacing to be completely off. The game is say... 10% Start (From the beginning till you hit Lothering - Though Lothering could still be considered part of the start I suppose... Doesn't matter), very well done. Superb. Feels about right. Then we've got 88% of the game fighting a civil war (sort of... This is the no spoilers forum, so I can't grumble more accurately) and gathering allies. We then have 2% of the story/game which is the ending. Its the only part of the game after the start where you need deal with the blight - you know, the big, bad world destroying event the games about?



I've a bunch of other gripes, but its not really worth grumbling about them, some people will agree, some won't, and some would think my ideas would be a terrible idea.



If the characterisations (Flawed though they are, the flaws are a part of the characters), and the world weren't so very well done, I'd have given the game a score of about 70% As it stands, I'll give it 80% Raising to 85% once they fix the varying bugs.



Overall, I'd say the game is on par with Baldur's Gate 1, and I hope that any expansions, DLC or sequels will raise the standards significantly.

#124
SirGCal

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

SirGCal wrote...

No you can NOT. Selecting and keeping them selected is not putting them in a hold... If I have my mage selected and am just selecting range attacks, she's not going to be healing unless I micro manage her alone. If I let her run free, she's going to move more often than I want. I want her fat but to sit where I put it, on hold, using the hold mode, and do her macros while others run free... Can NOT do that.

I thought you didn't want her to do anything - just hold position.

If you want her to use her tactics instructions, but not change position, doesn't the 'Default" or "Defensive" behaviour option do that?


Not to my satisfaction so far. None of those selectable options force her not to move but still cast. A few are close and that I use cautious and passive sometimes but they still tend to want to move closer to the player. I want one where 'in combat', player will not move unless directed but will otherwise be on free mode. The option isn't there.

#125
Blakes 7

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Must say that this thread is a breath of fresh air. People actually discussing what they like and don't like about the game - apart from the rampant fanboys that is. Some of the moderators should stop making excuses also for missing mechanics that obviously effect enjoyability of the product.