21 réponses à ce sujet

[ThePrestige10]

I know something about writing. I write myself and have a bookshelf full of books about dramaturgy, storywriting, which is sort of my hobby.

If you remember, when you go to Talis homeplanet Rannoch, she tells you, where she wants to have her home. Where she wants to live one day. This is some sort of internal promise, you kind of expect that you will see her or will have the chance to see her on her homeplanet one day, just in that place. But it doesn't happen. In the End she crashes on a foreign planet and that's all. The Setup of this Backstory has no ultimate payoff, not even the chance.

Same thing with the DLC Prothean (Warning: If you haven't played it, don't read - Spoiler): He tells you, that he wants to have a last look on his beacon when everything is finished and then leave. Nothing happens. The Ending suggests, he also lands on this strange planet. We see no conclusion to this Setup.

There may be much more of those examples.

So for me this is a clear indicator of bad writing - or that they rushed something. I think the theory is right, that they changed the endings with the leaks.

It is the imperative of a good story, at least to respond to these promises (and they are promises to the people who care) in the end. None of the actual Endings address these things.

[Leafs43]

A contrived super AI that controls the reapers from the citadel itself when the series runs counter that reapers are individual entities shows how bad the writing is.

[malkuth74]

Basically this is what happens when you have a leaked ending.. Cut the end a Band-aid it with a page from Battle Star Galactic.

[DadeLeviathan]

Leafs43 wrote...

A contrived super AI that controls the reapers from the citadel itself when the series runs counter that reapers are individual entities shows how bad the writing is.

This. The rest of the game wavers between decent and fantastic, but the ending felt like it was written by a first year creative writing student who had never played Mass Effect before. Everyone, even amazing writers, write flubs every once in a while, but that nobody at bioware said, "Um... wtf, guys?" Is nigh unbelievable to me.

[Jadebaby]

Aren't we forgetting that if the catalyst is the citadel it pretty much ruins the whole premise of Mass Effect 1.

[AlphaJarmel]

Leafs43 wrote...

A contrived super AI that controls the reapers from the citadel itself when the series runs counter that reapers are individual entities shows how bad the writing is.

And we're done.

[malkuth74]

Wait for the fanboys to tell you how in real life stories don't work that way..

Hell If I wanted real life I would go outside... Duh.

[DrDetective]

If fiction is completely divorced from reality, it loses all meaning. It doesn't have to be a documentary, but when the rest of the series has established a specific set of logical rules, it's stupid to break them.

[Sesshomaru47]

malkuth74 wrote...

Basically this is what happens when you have a leaked ending.. Cut the end a Band-aid it with a page from Battle Star Galactic.

Then they should have just left it and not punish us for their and microsofts stuff up. As it was anyway with that oh so great marketing scheme the space copies spoiled the whole sodding story in the end anyway. So what did it matter? Argh I hate the endings so much

[SandTrout]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Aren't we forgetting that if the catalyst is the citadel it pretty much ruins the whole premise of Mass Effect 1.

Yeah, I'm pretty decent at filling in the blanks regarding presumed 'plot holes' that others point out, but this one is just horrendous.

[Mev186]

Bioware isn't getting a pizza roll... and by "Pizza Roll" I mean any more money for DLCs...

at least from me.

Modifié par Mev186, 11 mars 2012 - 08:29 .

[Kmead15]

malkuth74 wrote...

Basically this is what happens when you have a leaked ending.. Cut the end a Band-aid it with a page from Battle Star Galactic.

The only major difference in the leaked script was that only Destroy took out the relays and the whole Normandy fiasco.

[Apocsapel91]

Just read this and the subsequent articles to understand why the ME3 ending is horrible.

[ticklefist]

Kmead15 wrote...

malkuth74 wrote...

Basically this is what happens when you have a leaked ending.. Cut the end a Band-aid it with a page from Battle Star Galactic.

The only major difference in the leaked script was that only Destroy took out the relays and the whole Normandy fiasco.

Deus Ex kid and everything? He was in the leaked part too?

[slimshedim]

Apocsapel91 wrote...

Just read this and the subsequent articles to understand why the ME3 ending is horrible.

Well, go send Bioware's writers back to elementary to learn how to write properly.

[GoblinSapper]

Plenty of Chekovian guns, yes. Not to mention the big Deus Ex Machina kid.

[theshuo]

Yeah. The internal inconsistencies alone make the ending terrible. I'm all for suspension of disbelief when engaging a work of fiction. I remember the codex entries in ME1 were so well thought out in their explanations regarding the 'mass effect.'

Nothing in the endings makes sense with regards to the rules and motivations of the ME universe.

Bad enough to have a illogical deux ex machina (pun intended), but just salts the wound to have that ending ruin everything that led up to the final moments.

[Madecologist]

malkuth74 wrote...

Basically this is what happens when you have a leaked ending.. Cut the end a Band-aid it with a page from Battle Star Galactic.

Actually there is a few threads that explain how a Machine Singularity Ending could have still be handled well and done right. Even alternative ways of handling the ending itself. Quite honestly... I am pretty sure Dark Energy would have been just as bad. Why... the same people that gave us this ending would make that one.

What I am trying to say is this ending is bad not because of the theme chosen, but because it was badly written period.

Modifié par Madecologist, 11 mars 2012 - 08:40 .

[kerec]

ThePrestige10 wrote...

I know something about writing. I write myself and have a bookshelf full of books about dramaturgy, storywriting, which is sort of my hobby.

If you remember, when you go to Talis homeplanet Rannoch, she tells you, where she wants to have her home. Where she wants to live one day. This is some sort of internal promise, you kind of expect that you will see her or will have the chance to see her on her homeplanet one day, just in that place. But it doesn't happen. In the End she crashes on a foreign planet and that's all. The Setup of this Backstory has no ultimate payoff, not even the chance.

Same thing with the DLC Prothean (Warning: If you haven't played it, don't read - Spoiler): He tells you, that he wants to have a last look on his beacon when everything is finished and then leave. Nothing happens. The Ending suggests, he also lands on this strange planet. We see no conclusion to this Setup.

There may be much more of those examples.

So for me this is a clear indicator of bad writing - or that they rushed something. I think the theory is right, that they changed the endings with the leaks.

It is the imperative of a good story, at least to respond to these promises (and they are promises to the people who care) in the end. None of the actual Endings address these things.

Kind of surprised at your response given your reported 'literary cred'. To me, the examples you give make it more impactful. People operate under assumptions that life will 'resume as usual' that they'll be operating under the same 'paradigms' as before. No one ever stopped and asked, 'what does victory mean? What does it look like?' It is actually brought up fairly early on when talking to Adm. Hackett. They have NO IDEA what the Crucible will do, how it will function. One of the things brought up is the idea of will it be worth it or the right thing to do.

[graciegrace]

It's a breach of the reader-author contract as well...

The major problem is it doesn't follow literary convention of providing any sort of closure.  There IS no closure to the ending, it just stops.  

Modifié par graciegrace, 11 mars 2012 - 08:43 .

[Kmead15]

ticklefist wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

malkuth74 wrote...

Basically this is what happens when you have a leaked ending.. Cut the end a Band-aid it with a page from Battle Star Galactic.

The only major difference in the leaked script was that only Destroy took out the relays and the whole Normandy fiasco.

Deus Ex kid and everything? He was in the leaked part too?

Yup. There's a thread in here somewhere (probably still in the first few pages) where someone copied all of his old lines for the folks that were avoiding the leaked files before the game came out.

[ThePrestige10]

kerec wrote...

ThePrestige10 wrote...

I know something about writing. I write myself and have a bookshelf full of books about dramaturgy, storywriting, which is sort of my hobby.

If you remember, when you go to Talis homeplanet Rannoch, she tells you, where she wants to have her home. Where she wants to live one day. This is some sort of internal promise, you kind of expect that you will see her or will have the chance to see her on her homeplanet one day, just in that place. But it doesn't happen. In the End she crashes on a foreign planet and that's all. The Setup of this Backstory has no ultimate payoff, not even the chance.

Same thing with the DLC Prothean (Warning: If you haven't played it, don't read - Spoiler): He tells you, that he wants to have a last look on his beacon when everything is finished and then leave. Nothing happens. The Ending suggests, he also lands on this strange planet. We see no conclusion to this Setup.

There may be much more of those examples.

So for me this is a clear indicator of bad writing - or that they rushed something. I think the theory is right, that they changed the endings with the leaks.

It is the imperative of a good story, at least to respond to these promises (and they are promises to the people who care) in the end. None of the actual Endings address these things.

Kind of surprised at your response given your reported 'literary cred'. To me, the examples you give make it more impactful. People operate under assumptions that life will 'resume as usual' that they'll be operating under the same 'paradigms' as before. No one ever stopped and asked, 'what does victory mean? What does it look like?' It is actually brought up fairly early on when talking to Adm. Hackett. They have NO IDEA what the Crucible will do, how it will function. One of the things brought up is the idea of will it be worth it or the right thing to do.

Even if that is the case you just have to explain, why they can't get what they were promised. It would be more powerful if you show the personal effects on anybody. You can't just destroy everything in one sequence, let them land on some strange planet, let an old man tell his grandchild a story and finish. You have to show the personal impacts.

Maybe they won't get, what they want but you have to tell why. And if that's the case, the end is still ultimately depressing. If you give someone the promise that she could live there one day, you better fulfill it in some way - maybe in one Ending, if you want the player/reader satisfied. You can't just say: "Okay, she wanted to live there - but nope. Bye." This is not a dramaturgically functioning story. This is just bad.

But you're right - it can support the tension, if you let it pay off with an bearable explanation. You can't just fire nuclear bombs at those people and claim, that this is an end.