192 réponses à ce sujet

[gudman]

Zemorion wrote...

This would be the kind of cliché ending that people will quickly forget, simply because it makes too much use of a deus ex machina. While the Crucible is a deus ex machina as it is - the current endings still have severe consequences in using it.

Normandy in this case is not DEM. At all. 

[D1ck1e]

The Angry One wrote...

I don't believe this. Why would you half-ass this. Why?
If it was like one game and you had limited funds yeah maybe, but this was the end of a startlingly popular trilogy. Why would you do this? WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS! TELL ME WHY BIOWARE, SOMEBODY TELL ME WHY? TELL ME WHY!!!!!!!

*breaks down*

Pretty much this.

[GiaOmerta]

phrizek wrote...

It would have been a lot more satisfying if the Normandy showed up and blew away Harbinger at the last second with the Thanix cannon.

Anti-climatic! He should of did a FTL jump right into Harbinger. 

[blacqout]

Zemorion wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

That's it then. So, with the indoctrination theory in mind, I see the true ending now.

Shepard gets grazed by Harbinger and is knocked out

indoctrination attempt, Shepard picks destroy and shrugs it off

Shepard wakes up

Harbinger knows he failed and is about to fire at Shepard again

Joker rides in and says these lines, and kills Harbinger while he's weakened from being on a planet

Shepard enters the beam

Shepard reaches the Crucible control and locks onto all Reapers in the galaxy and it fires millions of homing beams and kills every Reaper and husk in the galaxy, no relays are destroyed

everyone wins, Reapers dead, celebration

This would be the kind of cliché ending that people will quickly forget, simply because it makes too much use of a deus ex machina. While the Crucible is a deus ex machina as it is - the current endings still have severe consequences in using it.

The Crucible is not a deus ex machina. It's a MacGuffin.

Modifié par blacqout, 24 mars 2012 - 01:53 .

[Zemorion]

Sion1138 wrote...
It's the Starchild, not the Crucible. Read the article you linked.

Well, I guess you could say they both are a DEM. The Crucible itself is a giant, powerful weapon (object) that we have never heard about, suddenly being introduced convieniently in ME3 to end the war.

gudman wrote...
Normandy in this case is not DEM. At all. 

I agree, the Normandy have been around since ME1 and is a natural part of the story. The Crucible on the other hand, have not - it's suddenly a superweapon to kill all Reapers.

[jb1983]

Sion1138 wrote...

Zemorion wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

That's it then. So, with the indoctrination theory in mind, I see the true ending now.

Shepard gets grazed by Harbinger and is knocked out

indoctrination attempt, Shepard picks destroy and shrugs it off

Shepard wakes up

Harbinger knows he failed and is about to fire at Shepard again

Joker rides in and says these lines, and kills Harbinger while he's weakened from being on a planet

Shepard enters the beam

Shepard reaches the Crucible control and locks onto all Reapers in the galaxy and it fires millions of homing beams and kills every Reaper and husk in the galaxy, no relays are destroyed

everyone wins, Reapers dead, celebration

This would be the kind of cliché ending that people will quickly forget, simply because it makes too much use of a deus ex machina. While the Crucible is a deus ex machina as it is - the current endings still have severe consequences in using it.

It's the Starchild, not the Crucible. Read the article you linked.

Yeah, the ending offered here isn't deus ex machina. The only part of it that simplifies a complex solution is that Joker kills Harbinger - it would be better to say that he distracts Harbinger. 

But having the Crucible kill every Reaper...that's not a "sudden simple solution," that's the goal of the entire game. 

I half expect that future DLC will insert a scene from Monty Python saying, "And now for something completely different" as Shepard is being lifted on his magic carpet ride (or platform).

[jb1983]

Zemorion wrote...

Sion1138 wrote...
It's the Starchild, not the Crucible. Read the article you linked.

Well, I guess you could say they both are a DEM. The Crucible itself is a giant, powerful weapon (object) that we have never heard about, suddenly being introduced convieniently in ME3 to end the war.

gudman wrote...
Normandy in this case is not DEM. At all. 

I agree, the Normandy have been around since ME1 and is a natural part of the story. The Crucible on the other hand, have not - it's suddenly a superweapon to kill all Reapers.

It's difficult to see how, in a video game, one can avoid DEM. For instance, how frustrating would the game have been if we were trying to build a Crucible since ME1? That means having 2 games with little resolution...then again, perhaps this could have worked out. 

I think what it all boils down to is that game writers need to change how they approach gaming trilogies. Rather than waiting until after a game is over to develop the story, they need to storyboard the entire thing before even entering into development on the first game. This way they know where they're going, they know what Point A is and what Point B is. It allows them to establish a base plot, but gives them the freedom to change certain elements due to fan feedback (so make the storyboard fluid, but the metanarrative solid). 

Imagine if all the ME had been storyboarded out and the writers knew where they were going way back at ME1, instead of figuring it out for ME3. It would have created more continuancy in my opinion. Likewise, it allows for a game to be even more brilliant because you can have foreshadowing of the endings in the first game. Not to mention that this shortens your production time because you're not trying to figure out where to go next, you're simply figuring out how to achieve what you want. It removes a giant step in the writing process.

[Zemorion]

jb1983 wrote...

Sion1138 wrote...

Zemorion wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

That's it then. So, with the indoctrination theory in mind, I see the true ending now.

Shepard gets grazed by Harbinger and is knocked out

indoctrination attempt, Shepard picks destroy and shrugs it off

Shepard wakes up

Harbinger knows he failed and is about to fire at Shepard again

Joker rides in and says these lines, and kills Harbinger while he's weakened from being on a planet

Shepard enters the beam

Shepard reaches the Crucible control and locks onto all Reapers in the galaxy and it fires millions of homing beams and kills every Reaper and husk in the galaxy, no relays are destroyed

everyone wins, Reapers dead, celebration

This would be the kind of cliché ending that people will quickly forget, simply because it makes too much use of a deus ex machina. While the Crucible is a deus ex machina as it is - the current endings still have severe consequences in using it.

It's the Starchild, not the Crucible. Read the article you linked.

Yeah, the ending offered here isn't deus ex machina. The only part of it that simplifies a complex solution is that Joker kills Harbinger - it would be better to say that he distracts Harbinger. 

But having the Crucible kill every Reaper...that's not a "sudden simple solution," that's the goal of the entire game. 

I half expect that future DLC will insert a scene from Monty Python saying, "And now for something completely different" as Shepard is being lifted on his magic carpet ride (or platform).

The fact that Joker would fly in and kill Harbinger is not what bugs me about that ending at all. It's the fact that Shepard beams up, clicks a single button without any challenge or consequence at all, and then killing all Reapers. It sounds way too easy.

Modifié par Zemorion, 24 mars 2012 - 02:07 .

[lordofdogtown19]

There's just something wrong with all this. They had to have known people would have been pissed about the ending and yet they still gave it to us.

Bioware's writers are way too good for this ending. It's like Obsidian wrote it just like KOTOR2

[Funkcase]

nm

Modifié par Funkcase, 24 mars 2012 - 02:13 .

[Zemorion]

jb1983 wrote...

It's difficult to see how, in a video game, one can avoid DEM. For instance, how frustrating would the game have been if we were trying to build a Crucible since ME1? That means having 2 games with little resolution...then again, perhaps this could have worked out. 

I think what it all boils down to is that game writers need to change how they approach gaming trilogies. Rather than waiting until after a game is over to develop the story, they need to storyboard the entire thing before even entering into development on the first game. This way they know where they're going, they know what Point A is and what Point B is. It allows them to establish a base plot, but gives them the freedom to change certain elements due to fan feedback (so make the storyboard fluid, but the metanarrative solid). 

Imagine if all the ME had been storyboarded out and the writers knew where they were going way back at ME1, instead of figuring it out for ME3. It would have created more continuancy in my opinion. Likewise, it allows for a game to be even more brilliant because you can have foreshadowing of the endings in the first game. Not to mention that this shortens your production time because you're not trying to figure out where to go next, you're simply figuring out how to achieve what you want. It removes a giant step in the writing process.

DEM can be avoided, by good story writers.

But it would be difficult with a game this scale, sure. I don't know how Bioware have done it, but how you describe the storyboard process sounds like a good way to go.

[tariq071]

Wait , what , how?

This is really sloppy from BW, i can't believe that they would just skip this part and expect us to swallow "space magic " stuff...

Do they have such low opinion about their customers?

[heathxxx]

jb1983 wrote...

I half expect that future DLC will insert a scene from Monty Python saying, "And now for something completely different" as Shepard is being lifted on his magic carpet ride (or platform).

Seeing as it's set in London, you forgot the giant cat...



:lol:

[Eain]

I bet they're gonna put this content back in and charge us money for it rofl.

[Ross42899]

IMO first of all Bioware should restore all this cut content and patch it back into the game. Than they should give us some more dialogue and options during the Starchild scene and add an extended epilogue cutscene, explaining what will happen to our squadmates and the whole galaxy.

[jb1983]

Zemorion wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

It's difficult to see how, in a video game, one can avoid DEM. For instance, how frustrating would the game have been if we were trying to build a Crucible since ME1? That means having 2 games with little resolution...then again, perhaps this could have worked out. 

I think what it all boils down to is that game writers need to change how they approach gaming trilogies. Rather than waiting until after a game is over to develop the story, they need to storyboard the entire thing before even entering into development on the first game. This way they know where they're going, they know what Point A is and what Point B is. It allows them to establish a base plot, but gives them the freedom to change certain elements due to fan feedback (so make the storyboard fluid, but the metanarrative solid). 

Imagine if all the ME had been storyboarded out and the writers knew where they were going way back at ME1, instead of figuring it out for ME3. It would have created more continuancy in my opinion. Likewise, it allows for a game to be even more brilliant because you can have foreshadowing of the endings in the first game. Not to mention that this shortens your production time because you're not trying to figure out where to go next, you're simply figuring out how to achieve what you want. It removes a giant step in the writing process.

DEM can be avoided, by good story writers.

But it would be difficult with a game this scale, sure. I don't know how Bioware have done it, but how you describe the storyboard process sounds like a good way to go.

It can be avoided, but I'm not sure that it always has to be avoided. I think there are times where it is acceptable, especially if there is foreshadowing to it. Thus, while the device appears to be sudden, easy, and arbitrary, the reality is it was pointed to the entire time, we just didn't see it. 

Again, that's something that storyboarding your trilogies can accomplish, rather than just putting it together as you go along. 

For instance, the Catalyst could have been introduced in ME3 even in a storyboard, but could have been hinted at along the way in ME1 and ME2. That it's not mentioned by the VI on Ilos is an issue (why would the VI, wirtten by the last of the Protheans, fail to mention the thing that can stop the Reapers?), as is that we have no idea about it until ME3. Such a thing would be forgivable if we had the VI hinting at it on Ilos, saying something about there being a machine that can stop the Reapers, but the Reapers must be delayed first. By the time you stop Soveriegn, the VI is no longer there and we can't know what this machine is. In ME2 we discover a Prothean artifact that mentions a machine of hope, something that can stop the Reapers, but due to it being damaged we learn nothing of it. This sets the stage for ME3 when we learn that the device has been deciphered from ruins found on Mars. 

The problem, I think, is that game designers are afraid to storyboard trilogies. What happens if ME1 bombs? Now they have these two games that they spent time and money developing; it was all for a waste. At the same time, companies should also know when they have a game on their hands that will justifiably move on. That they always planned for ME to be a trilogy, to me, shows they had an idea this game would be successful. Hence, they should have storyboarded it, at least major plot developments (including how it would all end). 

But hey, what do I know. It's not like anyone has ever done that before and been successful (oh wait...that's the only way they've been successful...).

[FrozenDreamfall]

Asterantha wrote...

Why did they cut so much?

Hanar homeworld would have been amazing. Imagine a water planet with some of the most beloved and unique species in the game, with pockets of breathable 'Drell stations'.

Landing and actually aiding in the 'Retake Palaven' movement. Hell, Shepard could've done it. Just slap on a helmet and we don't have to worry about radiation. Instead, we get the moon? Of the Turians? A favorite species?

Imagine lifting Elcor off from their crazy-gravity homeworld. Awesome.

I feel like the pace was intense (not a bad thing --- in fact, extremely appropriate in some regards), but I felt like we barely scratched the surface of most planets and quests. It was extremely short. Although there was a lot of good to this game, the only fully 'complete' plot thread was Tuchunka, which was brilliant. And I think Rannoch was also excellent, but perhaps introduced a little too late.

Edit:  Additionally, while the haste is understandable because millions literally do die every minute we waste, we are constantly told throughout the series that complete galactic extinction takes hundreds of years.  It wouldn't have been unforgivable to add more hub worlds/locations and more exploration.  The mystery of Mass Effect could have been so easily returned in this game.  All of the stories from reading descriptions on planets is a lost opportunity.  Imagine it, there were so many mysteries (which should not have all been resolved, hence the mystery) but at least utilized to a further extent.

For example, the crucible being a project added upon in each new cycle was so exciting.  But evenetually, it became less and less about the Reapers.  It became more about Cerberus.  And I am sick of Cerberus.

Couldn't have said it better myself,I posted a thread about my play experience and the word I used to describe the whole ME3 was "rushed".And it was,good to find someone that feels the exact same way and realizes ME1 and 2 were a hell lot longer than this one.It just felt so short and most of the missions were bull****,you couldn't even explore anything except the Citadel and do some really random and ****ty missions for people.Where are all those worlds we were promised we'd re-visit and discover? Why so rushed,way too action orientated and way too much cut dialogue? I felt like I barely had any choice in what I said to others,most of the things were said for me,the game feels way too short for 2 damn DVDs.I can see how the graphics and design in general would take over 2 DVDs cause it's massive but c'mon,they didn't advance a hell lot more in graphics since the 2nd game,they did but not in a way that you could say wow,the 2nd game's graphics were **** comparing to this.So how come the 2nd is way bigger I ask,even without the DLC they put after the game.Somethings really don't make sense here.


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Modifié par FrozenDreamfall, 24 mars 2012 - 05:24 .