165 réponses à ce sujet

[eye basher]

''Just a game" that's the same thing i say all the time but apparently some people seem to think it's real or something and that makes me very worried cause this is are so called ''Future generation".

[Meltemph]

Schneidend wrote...

 I'd have to say I agree with the article entirely. Bioware and its intellectual properties are not a democracy. Mass Effect 3 was very fan-informed as it was. If you counted the number of in-jokes, self-references, and player ideas adapted virtually verbatim from these forums and the previous ME forums. This doesn't mean the fans have any creative control, and they shouldn't expect that they do.

Sure, make a petition, but don't expect Bioware to do anything about it, and it's petty to criticize their business practices just because they didn't do what a couple thousand people want. Millions of people bought the game. Maybe when a million or so people sign a petition, Bioware will take notice.

And then, even if Bioware did "fix" the ending with DLC, the article is quite astute in making the judgement that most petition signers would expect it to be free. Because, obviously, something that costs EA-Bioware lots money to make should be offered free of charge. That's reasonable.

And if Bioware does make the DLC and doesn't make it free, well suddenly they're greedy monsters nickle-and-diming the public.

As per the norm with the self-entitled frequenters of these fine forums, Bioware is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Typical.

There are plenty of us who didnt participate on the poll, dont expect free dlc, nor do I think we should be able to dictate what Bioware does with its game.  However, the flaws in teh ending of this game should be pointed out, because they are quite obvious.  Nobody as of yet, that I have read, has articulated why the crucible plot device with all its implications make sense.

Seriously, at this point, I am not joking. I REALLY want to know how this makes sense.
I'm not saying that you being ok with the philosophy of the ending is wrong at all. I am asking you how you made sense of the tech(Plot device, the crucible and what it could do) or did you just accept it at face value and ignroe the implications of that tech? If you just ingorned the implications of the tech, then I understand your stance on the ending. But at least for me it is the fact that, that specific plot device did not fit with the rest of the game, based on the information the game gave us(codex/lore/current tech in the game, including the reapers). I could not ignore the plot device and I think for a lot of people that is the problem.

So until someone explains to me or to ANYONE why the plot device makes sense... I think to them it is perfectly fine ignoring the illogical and nonsensical(with-in the games own standards) ending.

[theManic]

Schneidend wrote...

 I'd have to say I agree with the article entirely. Bioware and its intellectual properties are not a democracy. Mass Effect 3 was very fan-informed as it was. If you counted the number of in-jokes, self-references, and player ideas adapted virtually verbatim from these forums and the previous ME forums. This doesn't mean the fans have any creative control, and they shouldn't expect that they do.

Sure, make a petition, but don't expect Bioware to do anything about it, and it's petty to criticize their business practices just because they didn't do what a couple thousand people want. Millions of people bought the game. Maybe when a million or so people sign a petition, Bioware will take notice.

And then, even if Bioware did "fix" the ending with DLC, the article is quite astute in making the judgement that most petition signers would expect it to be free. Because, obviously, something that costs EA-Bioware lots money to make should be offered free of charge. That's reasonable.

And if Bioware does make the DLC and doesn't make it free, well suddenly they're greedy monsters nickle-and-diming the public.

As per the norm with the self-entitled frequenters of these fine forums, Bioware is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Typical.

1) It's improper to say that "a couple thousand people" are disatisfied with the ending but "millions of people bought the game", because we have no way of knowing how many people are finished with the game. Most people who are complaining about the endings also loved the entirety of the game before those endings. Many people who right now are not complaining might start complaining once they finish the game. We have no way of knowing this.

2) Many people have already stated numerous times that they don't want the DLC to be free. There's obviously no way to have solid numbers on the percentage of the group that wants it for free and the percentage that would pay. Since neither you or anyone else can know that, it's improper to confidently state "most petition signers would expect it to be free".

3) "Self-entitled" smacks of redudancy. It might not be, but it's still clunky word use. That bit of advice was free.

[WarBaby2]

Schneidend wrote...
As per the norm with the self-entitled frequenters of these fine forums, Bioware is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Typical.

Of course... it all comes down to the never ending battle between self-entitled kiddies that hate everything and industry enslaved sheeps that except anything.

This way, it will only get worse...

EDIT: We know for a fact that the final endings are not the original ones, which have been leaked last year.
EDIT2: Intellectual property is only so long not up for debate, as you don't involve others in it's creation...

Modifié par WarBaby2, 11 mars 2012 - 11:01 .

[Kloborgg711]

eye basher wrote...

''Just a game" that's the same thing i say all the time but apparently some people seem to think it's real or something and that makes me very worried cause this is are so called ''Future generation".

You're just an imperfect bag of flesh used to protect the genes inside of you long enough for you to pass them off. After that you're useless. There, why should anyone care about you? See, you make ANYTHING "just" something else. 1984 is just a bunch of ink on paper. Citizen Kane is just a series of pictures played in a sequence. Mass Effect is just a video. People can be passionate about just about anything, and they aren't invalid just because they aren't "real" (?)

[Meltemph]

Ya, just because some fans have taken it too far does NOT mean the ending makes sense because there are some self-entitled people who dont like it either.

[Spatchmo]

Schneidend wrote...



As per the norm with the self-entitled frequenters of these fine forums, Bioware is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Typical.

I don't understand why people post things like this. Obviously, you somehow consider yourself superior to everyone posting, so why are you here?

[Kloborgg711]

Did someone really insinuate that 99% of people liked the ending? Without any numbers as reference, I would be genuinely surprised if even 10% of people liked the ending. I mean, I haven't met someone IRL, and 75% of people I've read who do support it generally admit that it could be a lot better. It's just so bad on so many levels.. it seems impossible to really defend beyond "GIT OVER IT N B MOAR MATURE"

[SweetJeeba]

This happens in journalism all the time when following politics. People tend to belittle those they don't agree with by judging everything as literal black and white beliefs and expectations. The story here isn't there are people who demand a new ending,the story is the vocal outcry and strong emotional response. This is the first time I've seen an Internet forum post have over 20,000 votes and over 100,000 views.

[Jadebaby]

"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the
endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into
account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a
lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game
endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C."
- Casey Hudson, Executive Producer for the Mass Effect series

That's fromm the same article and coincidently is EXACTLY what we got! lol

[Storenumber9]

It really does seems like a baiting attempt for hits.

If he were writing a standard article, he wouldn't litter it with his opinions and insult the ME fan base outright.

Sad part is, his attempt worked. :/

[KitKatKate]

I thought the "just a game" comment was dumb. He's basically saying, "no dissent" because computer games don't matter. No matter what you are doing, you should try to do it well. If I thought Bioware would take an "it's just a game" approach to making games, I wouldn't pay $60 for them.

I really can't believe that most people liked the endings. I don't think we're a minority at all here.

[OblivionDawn]

For the time being, blog and article writers for major gaming websites are going to be biased in Bioware's favor, like the good little corporate tools that they are.

Don't let them dissuade you from what the people really think. Whether you're just being contrary or you just have bad literary tastes, the ending was a rushed asspull, plain and simple.

[Schneidend]

Meltemph wrote...

So until someone explains to me or to ANYONE why the plot device makes sense... I think to them it is perfectly fine ignoring the illogical and nonsensical(with-in the games own standards) ending.

The whole franchise is about the relationship between organic and synthetic life. The Crucible is the culmination of all the knowledge of every harvested species on the inner-workings of the Reapers, who are themselves synthetic-organic hybrid constructs. The Reapers possess technology that nobody fully understands. Their FTL travel speeds are faster, their capital ships can fly in a planet's atmosphere and even land on a planet when conventional ME-universe science believes that to be impossible.

I think that, in planning the Crucible, combining the techniques of all those different civilizations as well as what little they knew of the Reapers, unknowingly tapped into that unfathomable level of power the Reapers possess.

You're told several times that most of the scientists only have a vague idea of what the Crucible will actually do. All they have are theories and guesses. Though, some were actually correct in determining it would involve using the power of the relays.

Building the Crucible, which nobody fully understood, and combining it with the Catalyst, which was itself a Reaper-like construct, shattered conventional understanding. Thus, it was able to do things beyond what ME's technology is normally capable of.

Makes perfect sense to me. If Bioware could tell you exactly how medi-gel, mass effect field generators, and the Crucible work, they'd either be extremely rich, or cybernetic space gods. Nobody yells at Ray Bradbury for suggesting a couple guys with a hi-tech vaccuum cleaner could just suck poison out of a person's mouth. Nobody demands 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea be re-written because Captain Nemo separates oxygen from sea water just by running an undefined level of electrical current through it.

[Kloborgg711]

KitKatKate wrote...

I thought the "just a game" comment was dumb. He's basically saying, "no dissent" because computer games don't matter. No matter what you are doing, you should try to do it well. If I thought Bioware would take an "it's just a game" approach to making games, I wouldn't pay $60 for them.

I really can't believe that most people liked the endings. I don't think we're a minority at all here.

J.K. Rowling finished her seventh book today, in which Potter is graphically torn apart limb from limb in a painful scene that ends the book without further explanation and brings forth many plot inconsistensies. Self-entitled fans who have stuck with Harry for 10+ years are trying to ruin her creative art by having the nerve to demand a response. Don't they realize it's just a bunch of ink pressed on to thin pieces of tree bark? Go outside and get a girlfriend!

[HKR148]

Schneidend wrote...

 I'd have to say I agree with the article entirely. Bioware and its intellectual properties are not a democracy. Mass Effect 3 was very fan-informed as it was. If you counted the number of in-jokes, self-references, and player ideas adapted virtually verbatim from these forums and the previous ME forums. This doesn't mean the fans have any creative control, and they shouldn't expect that they do.

Sure, make a petition, but don't expect Bioware to do anything about it, and it's petty to criticize their business practices just because they didn't do what a couple thousand people want. Millions of people bought the game. Maybe when a million or so people sign a petition, Bioware will take notice.

And then, even if Bioware did "fix" the ending with DLC, the article is quite astute in making the judgement that most petition signers would expect it to be free. Because, obviously, something that costs EA-Bioware lots money to make should be offered free of charge. That's reasonable.

And if Bioware does make the DLC and doesn't make it free, well suddenly they're greedy monsters nickle-and-diming the public.

As per the norm with the self-entitled frequenters of these fine forums, Bioware is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Typical.

xistfirat wrote...

i... just don't get how. how can anyone like these endings ? that's not possible. i can't think of a single reason to actually like those endings.

I was quite satisfied with the Green ending. Synthesis. EDI and Joker were all happy and hopeful, the geth survive, and every race in the universe evolved. Sounds like a win to me.

Not much in demand. However I am entitled to voice my opinions on the much-below-satisfactory product while being constructive and logical about why it is so. Not sure if telling the Bioware that like what I've done with Maxis, Activision and EA sports that there certainly won't be my money being in their pocket is a threat though. I'm simply implying that I have freedom to choose how I wish to spend my money and I won't buy any of their products with repeated ill-advised approach they've made with their product unless they fix the problem starting with fixing the ME3 ending.

It's pretty much Fix the ending or the deal is off. Sounds like terrorism, but it isn't.

[Teddie Sage]

Kotaku is the new IGN.

[theManic]

I won't lie, I feel a little silly having brought this up considering how ill-respected Kotaku seems to be. Still, I think it's good that the measured, calm elements of the dissent can see what the broader public (might) think of them and plan accordingly.

[Drake_1000]

http://social.biowar...3/index/9789361

[SweetJeeba]

I like how he brings in the first amendment and how people have a distorted view of thinking they have a right to demand something forms private company, well guess what they do have the right, just doesn't mean they'll get it. People made demands of me daily when I worked in sales. It's their right, I also had the right not to give in to said demands.

The kotaku nerds may be new to this world of fandom, but for years sports fans have complained about trades or signings in large numbers and few people if any wrote an article like this one in the local paper or espn talking about fans being self-entitled.

If a sports writer wrote this they would be laughed out of the building

[HKR148]

From a sheer product's point of view, the game is a product; obviously. Yet unlike the furnitures, electronics or books you cannot get a full-refund after realizing that nothing about the product really delivers the promise you thought was to be. Little bit more is at stake here because of that for the consumers and from ethical point of view, video-game producer needs to acknowledge the responsibility of making sure that the risk the customers are taking isn't in vain.

[Meltemph]

The whole franchise is about the relationship between organic and synthetic life.

The whole franchise is about the Reapers, synthetic/organic constructs.  Geth by % dont play any bigger role then any other race in the game.

The Crucible is the culmination of all the knowledge of every harvested species on the inner-workings of the Reapers, who are themselves synthetic-organic hybrid constructs. The Reapers possess technology that nobody fully understands. Their FTL travel speeds are faster, their capital ships can fly in a planet's atmosphere and even land on a planet when conventional ME-universe science believes that to be impossible.

This is you interjecting the ME-universe science.  And the fact that you are going from FTL and stmosphere flying seems like grasping, since there really isnt anything saying that isnt possible(IE, the Alliance Capital Ship in the beggining of the game(3) getting blown up, in atmosphere).

I think that, in planning the Crucible, combining the techniques of all those different civilizations as well as what little they knew of the Reapers, unknowingly tapped into that unfathomable level of power the Reapers possess.


You're told several times that most of the scientists only have a vague idea of what the Crucible will actually do. All they have are theories and guesses. Though, some were actually correct in determining it would involve using the power of the relays.

Building the Crucible, which nobody fully understood, and combining it with the Catalyst, which was itself a Reaper-like construct, shattered conventional understanding. Thus, it was able to do things beyond what ME's technology is normally capable of.

What the crucible does, is litterally, a miracle.  Litterally space magic.  IT changes the DNA of everything synthetic or organic in the galaxy, with a single blast.  That goes from fictional science to magic

Makes perfect sense to me. If Bioware could tell you exactly how medi-gel, mass effect field generators, and the Crucible work, they'd either be extremely rich, or cybernetic space gods.

Medigel was explained with-in the confines of the game, HELL, mass effect fields were even explained to a degree.  This is the equvivalent of indroducing Q(From Star Trek) but instead of showing that such a being exists, waits until the end of a series to say, "oh, btw Q exists in this universe too".  Outside of just accepting its introduction at face value there is litterally no connection ME-universe wise, with what the crucible does to ANYTHING else in the game.  Your leap of logic from FTL and atmospher capable capital ships is an inredible leap of acceptance.

Nobody yells at Ray Bradbury for suggesting a couple guys with a hi-tech vaccuum cleaner could just suck poison out of a person's mouth. Nobody demands 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea be re-written because Captain Nemo separates oxygen from sea water just by running an undefined level of electrical current through it.

Because the expectations where already set from the beginning of the books.  Space lasers that magically cahnge DNA galaxy wide or a laser that can differenciate between what is synthetic and what is not synthetic in no way goes along with anything else in the ME universe.

The fact that the only thing you can think of is "FTL is faster" and  "Capital ships in the atmospher", to the Crucible plot device, just shows how much of a leap someone has to be willing to take.

Modifié par Meltemph, 11 mars 2012 - 11:31 .

[iamheartbroken]

Yes, we want something for nothing from Bioware </sarcasmsettofull>

Seriously, we've been loyal fans, we expected to be sad at the ending of ME3, but we also expected it to make us smile too, maybe, with some great closing moments. I came to realize Kotaku is as bad as Scifi's gaming news section used to be. A very biased group of writers for the most part.

Mass Effect 3 was an amazing game until you get to the very end of it. Great moments, wonderful advances in making the companions feel like real characters... loved the conversations you caught them in. The deaths of some of those former companions was terrible, but it felt like it meant something.

Somehow the ending just didn't give that sense that your death was worthwhile. We're just not given enough to have that feeling. You have those black and white shots of Joker, Anderson, and your love interest, which just helps to rip out your heart. They don't really do anything to build you back up and give you hope for the next game.

[SweetJeeba]

Schneidend wrote...


The whole franchise is about the relationship between organic and synthetic life. 

I would seriously disagree with this, you can argue the story is built on that, but the franchise is built more on character interaction and development, other than making the choice on how to save the galaxy, the ending ignored the characters it depended on.  People spent huge amounts of times invested in the story through conversation and these character were completely ignored.  

I'm pretty confident that even people that disliked how shepard's story ended would have been a lot less vocal if there was some sort of closure to what happened to their squadmates and the direction they were being sent in.  they could have done this without any dialogue too.

[Kloborgg711]

To anyone claiming the FRANCHISE is about the relationship between organic and synthetic life... what exactly gave you this impression from Mass Effect 2? Yes, the main struggle happens to be mainly between synthetics and organics.. but it's never suggested that it's because of that. It's like saying the theme of Pacific WWII was the relationship between people who spoke English and people who spoke Japanese.