1034 réponses à ce sujet

[kbct]

jreezy wrote...

The entitlement of fans seems to have gotten out of control somewhat this generation.

I don't demand anything. I don't even demand a response. I'm only waiting around to see if BioWare responds next week before I move on to something else.

However, there is nothing wrong if people ask for a DLC with an alternate logical ending given the overwhelming negative response.

[Seboist]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I for one applaud what Bioware did with the endings. They spent three whole games pandering to the average player's base needs only to sweep it out from right underneath them at the last moment and give them a hard dose of reality.

Man, sucker punching the TIM haters right before they're about to crack open a six pack to celebrate his death? I couldn't have come up with a better troll than that!

You can count me in for buying any future DLC for this game BW!

I hated the endings and I thought TIM's final scene was a shameless Saren rip-off that didn't do him justice.

Where do I stand?

Depends,  do you support the notion of a "Cerberus path" in ME3?

[zsom]

Urdnot Grim wrote...

Firstly, numerous members - including myself - have said we wouldn't mind purchasing an Epilogue DLC, so his first argument is baseless.

In that case I am happy that you are one of the few, who understands that demanding content for free is retarded. Unfortunately others have a different opinion. Bioware would just be inviting a second group to attack them and the game. Remember the outrage over the prothean DLC? Remember how it started a review bombing on day 1 on metacritic? Do you expect those "fans" to behave differently if an alternate ending DLC is announced?

Urdnot Grim wrote...
Secondly, this is Shepard's story, which has been the primary selling point of the entire franchise: in other words, the player's choices influence the narrative, and the same was promised in 3. It's not about simply wanting them to literally change the endings to please them, but offering a tangible sense of variety that goes beyond the superficial variables of the story's conclusion and actually gives player choice true meaning. This was promised, and based on the available evidence, we certainly didn't get this.

This is their game and their story. I'm sorry but your expectations won't change that. I know it's disappointing, but bullying them is not the right way to express it.

[Foxhound2020]

NovinhaShepard wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

To quote the Kotaku article
"What right does someone have to demand changes to the end of a story they did not write—and as this would, assuredly, be released as downloadable content—expect all of that labor for free? Because they'll refuse to endorse a product they've already bought?"

I agree 100 %.  It's one thing to discuss how disappointed you are, it's another one entirely to make such entitled demands.

What do you think Marketing does all day?

Do they just sit in the office while staring at perceptual maps and segmenting strategies, twirl their mustaches, and say "how dare people demand products".

There is nothing demanding about finding out what paying customers want.

I believe a few might say that they want a expansion or epilogue dlc for free, but I am certain that most people would have no problem paying for it. If it's not your slice of cheese, don't eat it.

Modifié par Foxhound2020, 12 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[The Big Nothing]

I just posted a new ending on my page:

http://social.biowar...29/blog/211699/

Check it out, I think it's pretty gratifying.

[Zeju]

zsom wrote...

Urdnot Grim wrote...

Firstly, numerous members - including myself - have said we wouldn't mind purchasing an Epilogue DLC, so his first argument is baseless.

In that case I am happy that you are one of the few, who understands that demanding content for free is retarded. Unfortunately others have a different opinion. Bioware would just be inviting a second group to attack them and the game. Remember the outrage over the prothean DLC? Remember how it started a review bombing on day 1 on metacritic? Do you expect those "fans" to behave differently if an alternate ending DLC is announced?

Urdnot Grim wrote...
Secondly, this is Shepard's story, which has been the primary selling point of the entire franchise: in other words, the player's choices influence the narrative, and the same was promised in 3. It's not about simply wanting them to literally change the endings to please them, but offering a tangible sense of variety that goes beyond the superficial variables of the story's conclusion and actually gives player choice true meaning. This was promised, and based on the available evidence, we certainly didn't get this.

This is their game and their story. I'm sorry but your expectations won't change that. I know it's disappointing, but bullying them is not the right way to express it.

No offense champ, but your lack of ME3 registration tells me that you havnt played the game and therefore cannot judge it or us, and have no right to an opinion untill you play it.

[Kaiser Shepard]

aLucidMind wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

Punk4Real wrote...

Various sites have begun reporting on the general fan unrest regarding the endings!
We're finally getting some god damn attention, lets keep at it folks! 

- Digital Spy

- Destructoid

- Game Front

- Kotaku

You might want to read those articles before pointing to them as support.  They are basically calling all the petitions and unrest as entitled whining.

From Kotaku:

"What we're seeing is the Battlefield-ization of Mass Effect. A community that spews nonstop hatred of a game it bought at full price and plays religiously.
It's amazing to me how unhappy people choose to be in a leisure pursuit."

Them call being aggrivated about a legitimate issue "entitled whining" just makes them sound stupid. This is not entitled whining; we're not saying we deserve the ending we want, we're saying we should get an ending that didn't completely disregard the story itself with something that had little thought put into writing and was an easy way out at-best.

I beg to differ: this entire "outrage" is nothing more than first world "problems" at their best, and most certainly a prime example of what you would refer to as entitled whining. 

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I don't recall ever having 'attacked' you,

Oh, you!

and you get 'snippy' rather fast regardless whenever someone disagrees with you.

Speaking of attacks, there's one right there!  Shocking.

No seriously, people disagree with me all the time.  Arcian just did it.  But we bros.

Not an attack, just an observation. You do, in fact, take things personally rather quickly, and it doesn't take much for you to resort to vulgar language and bypassing the censor.

So eager to victimise yourself, though...

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 12 mars 2012 - 12:31 .

[JeffZero]

As I pointed out numerous times in the Kotaku article's comments section, the vast majority of people polled are willing to shell out some extra dough to support the employees tasked with proposed DLC of such kind.

[Alpha-Centuri]

Those speaking of entitlement are a little off-base. I'd be willing to wager that the indignation is not from entitlement. I have no entitlement over them, and they are not slaves to my (nor anyone but EA) will.

We are not demanding anything from Bioware.. Oh no. I'm pleading and begging additional endings. Many have stated that they will pay for ending dlc. That's not entitlement, that is the sad reality that the ME3 ending has relegated a good portion of its fan to do.

[Maugrim]

On my poll about paying for a DLC most 75% are will to pay at least some amount for the DLC. Yes it's a BSN poll and only has 100 respondents so far but it better than pulling answer from one's posterior.

[Drake_1000]

Foxhound2020 wrote...

NovinhaShepard wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

To quote the Kotaku article
"What right does someone have to demand changes to the end of a story they did not write—and as this would, assuredly, be released as downloadable content—expect all of that labor for free? Because they'll refuse to endorse a product they've already bought?"

I agree 100 %.  It's one thing to discuss how disappointed you are, it's another one entirely to make such entitled demands.

What do you think Marketing does all day?

Do they just sit in the office while staring at perceptual maps and segmenting strategies, twirl their mustaches, and say "how day people demand products".

There is nothing demanding about finding out what paying customers want.

I believe a few might say that they want a expansion or epilogue dlc for free, but I am certain that most people would have no problem paying for it. If it's not your slice of cheese, don't eat it.

This, i agree.

If the ending are fine for you, move along. We want what Bioware tell us. Not some space magic in three colors.

[Epic777]

Alternate ending, have my seal of approval but actually scrapping what's already there and changing it, I don't agree.

[JeffZero]

Urdnot Grim wrote...

I just posted a new poll up folks here.

Repost it as a signature if you can so we can get more to participate.

Voted.

And thanks for the update makenzie.

[Yuqi]

Search the me3 tag on tumblr, that is all.

[Espurr]

For all those calling entitlement and such, I have to disagree. If people's main argument was simply that the endings weren't exactly what they wanted, then it would be entitlement. But that isn't what's going on here.

What's going on here is holding people accountable. Yes, Bioware has the right to do whatever they want with their own creative property. But in the name of being a successful business they also have an unspoken responsibility to deliver a product to consumers that is: a) in-line with what was promised and advertised, and a quality product that lives up to their own standards set by previous products.

True, as consumers we don't actually have any direct say over what is done with the product, but I don't think that calling out what many people see as lazy writing full of plot holes as entitlement. Nor is calling out what you see as false advertising for a product that didn't meet expectations. And yes, demanding is bad. It never ends well. But requesting? Making your opinions known and backing them up with willingness to cooperate and be civil and reasonable, but while still sticking to your guns? That's how things get done. Especially in the internet age where there is an unprecedented ability for ALL consumers to express their opinions and give constructive feedback (not that everyone uses the system wisely or maturely, but that's a whole other topic).

And that said, whether it is a minority or a majority DOES matter. A few people being upset about things means a few lost sales. When you upset a majority of your consumer base it can make a serious difference in the trust people have in your company. It is never wise for ANYONE to alienate a majority of their consumer base.

Modifié par ToastPants, 12 mars 2012 - 12:36 .

[Tezlaa]

The objective was to wrap up Shepards story. Creating a trilogy with variables that can be taken into account throughout the entire series was a monumental undertaking. As far as I know, it has never been done in a game before, atleast not to such an extent.

They must be forgiven for messing up a little bit along the way (too many variables, too many variables ;D) But whether your dissapointed with a single game or not, they have left us a great gift for the future...

The Mass Effect Universe

[CDRSkyShepard]

Here's the deal: we aren't entitled. No one is saying that they're "entitled" to a better ending, but what we are saying is that it makes us feel awful, and we'd really rather not feel awful at the ending of one of our favorite sci-fi/video game trilogies. What's so wrong with that?

I still agree with Miracle of Sound: "The Mass Effect fans aren't acting entitled. They aren't asking for the ending they deserve, they're asking for the ending Mass Effect deserves."

In with a bang, out with a whimper. That's how this has gone down. Put all the philosophy aside for a minute...these endings are FILLED with plotholes. It's not even funny. If anything else, they need to revise it for the sake of plot continuity.

[zsom]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
If they sell it as DLC, they can make money off of it.  So sell, I say!  As sleezy as it is, it's better for them PR-wise than doing nothing, and hey, they can make a profit.

The vanilla game would still exist and probably be considered canon.  The DLC would be entirely optional, and only available for people who agree to continue to support Bioware by paying for it (sans pirates).  It wouldn't forsake artistic integrity any more than a special edition/director's cut of a movie.

Besides, look at the Sherlock fiasco.

I'm not so sure about this... asking money to get the other ending would just invite the DLC-opposing groups for another attack.
And a director's cut isn't something put into a movie because of "fan"-pressure, it is more what the director envisioned but couldn't show due to time limitations. That is still in line with artistic integrity. Extorted content isn't.

[FabricatedWookie]

zsom wrote...

Urdnot Grim wrote...

Firstly, numerous members - including myself - have said we wouldn't mind purchasing an Epilogue DLC, so his first argument is baseless.

In that case I am happy that you are one of the few, who understands that demanding content for free is retarded. Unfortunately others have a different opinion. Bioware would just be inviting a second group to attack them and the game. Remember the outrage over the prothean DLC? Remember how it started a review bombing on day 1 on metacritic? Do you expect those "fans" to behave differently if an alternate ending DLC is announced?

Urdnot Grim wrote...
Secondly, this is Shepard's story, which has been the primary selling point of the entire franchise: in other words, the player's choices influence the narrative, and the same was promised in 3. It's not about simply wanting them to literally change the endings to please them, but offering a tangible sense of variety that goes beyond the superficial variables of the story's conclusion and actually gives player choice true meaning. This was promised, and based on the available evidence, we certainly didn't get this.

This is their game and their story. I'm sorry but your expectations won't change that. I know it's disappointing, but bullying them is not the right way to express it.

I think operations like kickstarter are calling into question these concepts. EA and Bioware owns it because they frontload the cost of making the product. However, with how much money they make with pre-orders and pre-purchases, a company's promises have a little bit more liability to them. Why is my money, which makes the whole operation possible treated differently than an investors money? Perhaps when we understand ourselves as small-scale investors who are not investing for profit but content, it doesn't seem so entitled to think hey, why not ask for a change?

And the fans are the bullies? Is Bioware Rihanna now?

[Augustine]

That's an amusing deja-vu.
1) Go to http://en.wikipedia....Pygmalion_(play)
2) Read the section "Ending"
3) Draw parallels

Food for thought.

[Seboist]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I'm not sure; I guess it depends how they would implement it and what resources it would take from the rest of the game if they did.

I certainly agree it was weird to have to disagree with his goal all through the game only to have it be an option in the end.

Kind of funny, really; I was actually more sympathetic to TIM and Cerberus in ME3 than in ME2.

Merely considering the possiblity makes you a good man who deserves better in his third ME game then

BW could have pulled a Cerberus path off I'd say but they never had the intention of creating anything other than a linear popamole shooter. Really embarassing that a fringe self-funded Polish developer with less experience curbstomps BW in this department or for that matter Arc System Works with their Blazblue fighting game series when it comes to creating a better planned cohesive story.

[Maugrim]

I'm off to grab some Chinese food but I encourage you all to keep posting. Also when possible mention the good things ME3 did and congratulate the people on their work. Like I just sent a tweet to one of the cinematic people who worked on the Rannoch mission. Don't back down on your opinions on the endings but don't let it cloud everything else either.