532 réponses à ce sujet

[Michael Gamble]

Hi,

There has a been a lot of discussion this weekend about our DLC, and i just wanted to say a few things...

From Ashes is a 600 MB+ download with all new content, including the mission on Eden Prime, new dialogue options and conversations with Javik, new cinematics, the Prothean weapon, and new appearances for all squad members. All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc.

As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2. 

Modifié par Michael Gamble, 11 mars 2012 - 11:28 .

[ArMedSuRViVoR]

Thanks for finally pointing that out.

[MrRiadon]

I wish we would get a reply from Bioware about something we actually care about instead of this.

*Cough* ENDINGS *Cough*

[Chris Priestly]

The previous discussion on this can be found here for people interested in reading it.

[FellOpenIan]

Then what's the stance on people unlocking the incomplete on-disc character but never upgrading to the additional non-disc content?

That's the sticky wicket.

[nitsaj]

Can I be the first to ask, why it would take nearly a week to come out and say this, especially after seeing how this has been getting out to all forms of media?

[upsettingshorts]

I'll just leave this here.  This idea of a "complete game" is a myth perpetuated by angry consumers who want free stuff.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 mars 2012 - 11:39 .

[Dragoonlordz]

FellOpenIan wrote...

Then what's the stance on people unlocking the incomplete on-disc character but never upgrading to the additional non-disc content?

That's the sticky wicket.

Unfortuantly as mentioned certain elements were on the disc (as he rightly put it for framework) therefore there is not much they could do about that. Same reason people had access to Kasumi's VO and other elements from the previous titles by searching/editing files. Kind of the problem with PC format in that it is all open to abuse, stripping, modifying and changing. Not sure what they can do about that as seems to be the price pay to enable us PC users to have an easier way to play their games on our format (compatibility and framework). It however even when edited is a much more limited amount of content compared to the actual DLC. Those who resort to such do not get all of what those of us paid for though personally I prefer they did not get any of it for free given simple reason it's paid for content by others as DLC and CE content.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 mars 2012 - 11:46 .

[Wishpig]

Good, this is what I figured. As far as I'm concerned bioware only did two things you can really criticize,

1. The ending. But this is a matter of taste. They didn't do anything WRONG, the writers could have thought the ending was great.
2. Multiplayer incorporated in singleplayer. It's a great idea to have multiplayer tie into singleplayer. I really love the concept. But it shouldn't have such a massive impact on the ending. It's unfair too xbox owners who have to actually pay for online.

Bioware is being made into the devil... as is typical of BIG game companies these days. They made some missteps, but so what? No dev team is perfect. If they learn from this (which I think they will) it will lead to great things I believe.

Modifié par Wishpig, 11 mars 2012 - 11:45 .

[BrazenBoozer]

Yes, that's all well and good, but I think the point is that many people feel that if DLC was planned for a long time before the game went into certification and if it is ready before the game even launches, it should be a part of the core game and shouldn't cost any extra money. This is a legitimate opinion and it doesn't help when the developers tell the fans to suck it up and stop complaining. That's just poor PR. It really doesn't matter what Bioware/EA think and it really doesn't matter how things actually work. What matters is what the fans think. Honestly, it might just be better to stop creating Day 1 DLC and instead use the time towards creating a proper expansion pack.

I haven't bought the game yet, of course, I'm only commenting on what I see.

Modifié par BrazenBoozer, 11 mars 2012 - 11:49 .

[Quintii93]

MrRiadon wrote...

I wish we would get a reply from Bioware about something we actually care about instead of this.

*Cough* ENDINGS *Cough*

This.

[upsettingshorts]

BrazenBoozer wrote...

many people feel that if DLC was planned for a long time before the game went into certification and if it is ready before the game even launches, it should be a part of the core game and shouldn't cost any extra money. This is a legitimate opinion

No it isn't.

If it was budgeted independently, developed independently, and finished independently, it is perfectly legitimate to charge for it separately.  Especially if, and this is the key here, it wouldn't have been planned for or developed at all had there not been an expectation of additional revenue attached to it.

The idea of a "complete game" is a myth perpetuated by angry gamers to justify their desire for more free stuff that costs money, resources, and manpower to produce.  

It's not just EA or Capcom or whoever saying this.  

Tons of things are planned and get cut from games during development, should everything that was once cut and might be implemented at a later date for a fee be considered part of the "complete" game?  It's an arbitrary, selfish distinction that allows players to pretend that they're victims.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 mars 2012 - 11:54 .

[Olej z Maku]

Then why is it possible to unlock Javik without that 600 MB download? There is obviously more than just a framework.

Modifié par Olej z Maku, 11 mars 2012 - 11:54 .

[nitsaj]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

FellOpenIan wrote...

Then what's the stance on people unlocking the incomplete on-disc character but never upgrading to the additional non-disc content?

That's the sticky wicket.

Unfortuantly as mentioned certain elements were on the disc (as he rightly put it for framework) therefore there is not much they could do about that. Same reason people had access to Kasumi's VO and other elements from the previous titles by searching/editing files. Kind of the problem with PC format in that it is all open to abuse, stripping, modifying and changing. Not sure what they can do about that as seems to be the price pay to enable us PC users to have an easier way to play their games on our format (compatibility and framework). It however even when edited is a much more limited amount of content compared to the actual DLC. Those who resort to such do not get all of what those of us paid for though personally I prefer they did not get any of it for free given simple reason it's paid for content by others as DLC and CE content.

I agree that this is the chance they take. I mean once you purchase it, it's is essentially yours to do whatever with, it's not governmental property so it's not illegal. I mean it is limited as you say, but there are still ways to bypass that in a ... less than grey way.

In the same breath there's the issue with people paying for the dlc on one xbox and transfering the rights to another account essentially bypassing the who pay for dlc. 

I mean what do you do?

[Olej z Maku]

jreezy wrote...

Olej z Maku wrote...

Then why is it possible to unlock Javik without that 600 MB download?

His model is already on the disc.

Model, animations, abilities, VO, ... He is fully functioning character. All we get for the additional $10 is worthless Eden prime mision.

[nitsaj]

Upsettingshorts wrote...



Tons of things are planned and get cut from games during development, should everything that was once cut and might be implemented at a later date for a fee be considered part of the "complete" game?  It's an arbitrary, selfish distinction that allows players to pretend that they're victims.

I agree with this to a point, that point is IF the content is considere core, not just addition content. An example is in ME, if they decided to cut out the first mission. or if in ME2 there is no IFF mission. Then the DLC comes out for that. I think then it'scompletely valid to ask for it free. There are times when this kind of shadying marketing plan pulls this. Take Square-Enix and its colisieum.

I'm not sure this dlc qualify but it definitely walks that line on being core and not core

[Rorschachinstein]

People that should have bought the game are now pirating like they have some kind of victory. This is a horrible, horrible thing to encourage.

Common now. Saying "Nu uh consumers will just have to deal with it" is what turned this into a PR nightmare

Modifié par Rorschachinstein, 12 mars 2012 - 12:04 .

[Bandit112]

so they know what dlc's are planned what are they... lol

[Olej z Maku]

Do we get also statement about how Bioware lied? Main content advertised in DLC description Javik was clearly developed before game certification.

[Wishpig]

Rorschachinstein wrote...

People that should have bought the game are now pirating like they have some kind of victory. This is a horrible, horrible thing to encourage.

Common now. Saying "Nu uh consumers will just have to deal with it" is what turned this into a PR nightmare

Pirating games is terrible. It is stealing, people don't get this. The way game companies deal with it is terrible. They're making it worse.

Best way to combat it or at least discourage it is by being an open, giving, and friendly company. Over on the Witcher 2 forums, they would lynch pirates if they could.

[Mr.House]

jreezy wrote...

Olej z Maku wrote...

Then why is it possible to unlock Javik without that 600 MB download?

His model is already on the disc.

So is his dialog and powers.

[THE LORD HERESY]

@ Michael Gamble and Chris Priestly,

I thank you for taking the time to make and respond to the thread providing information, but in the eyes of many consumers, you've dropped the ball and can't be trusted. I understand this thread is damage control, but this type of information should have been released before the game went gold.

You're a for profit company and know you answer to the publisher and want as many revenue streams as possible from your I.P., I get it. However, in the eyes of many of your customers, you haven't been forthcoming and have sold out for the almighty dollar. Again, I get it, you're a for profit company, you want to monetize everything associated with the product, you want to sell as many copies as possible, make money to send your kids to school, buy fast cars, good food, etc. I understand it and I see no harm in business. However, at what point do you, as a company, look at your company culture and say "You know what? Maybe we shouldn't do this?" At what point do you as a company consider the consumer and their wallets? At what point do you ponder how the little things have a much larger impact than you might be able to admit?

No matter how much people pay for your games, if they are paying for them they are saying “I think I need/want your product, so I’m going to support you.” They are attempting to build a relationship and establish a level of trust, but it seems to me, and many others, that developers no longer trust consumers, simply want the money, and couldn’t care less about the fact that we are paying for betas, broken games, broken promises and lackluster efforts.

In closing, do right by your customers. Talk to them, speak with them, reach out to them and do this before SHTF. If not, you’ll simply spend cycles performing damage control and guess what? If you aren’t careful, another company with a better business model will come in, work hand in hand with the consumer, involve them heavily in the project and make more money than you would expect (and they’ll probably do it with a smaller team and budget.)

Think about what you’re doing because you’re on a dangerous path here…