532 réponses à ce sujet

[xwolfi]

JPLazyNinja wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

I was under the impression that the DLC (From Ashes) was always intended as a CE first bonus...
So why do I get the impressiont hat people think he should be free when from the outset I, personally anyway, was under the impression that the bonus character was a "BONUS" for the CE purchase?

Did I miss something in translation? I dont get the anger over the Day 1 DLC when it was originally announced as a CE perk.

Why did it NEED to be a perk to begin with? Why make a Collector's Edition that intentionally adds a charcter and mission that then requires all other to pay to get? To try to make you buy the CE version to "get the best value." Its a matter of the change in the attitude of Bioware, not the fans, where they care more about increasing profits than rewarding their customers for sticking with them for all these years.

Yeah, look at what they do with dvds for example: we get a nice hard cover, a bonus disc with some making-of, the OST etc, not "deleted scenes" that passed the final cut -therefore important in the whole piece- and then were stripped to be sold separately at a very very high price (10$ could even be okay for a big DLC, but don't forget we pay it 10 euros in Europe )

Modifié par xwolfi, 12 mars 2012 - 02:46 .

[Freakiq]

crazyrabbits wrote...

Freakiq wrote...

Devian wrote...

Well if they only care about the £ in their wallets then they must realize that when over 20.000 people are angry of this game that it's a huge fanbase, if they are willing to let those people down they could start to get ready and get bankrupt, ofcourse Bioware went from good to bad in no time under the leadership of EA. Bioware must have the balls to say to EA stick it up your ass, we don't wanna let our fans down... come on more then 20.000 fans are upset you can't ignore that not even those idiots from EA.

Edit: I just went to take a look at the poll, it's now 25.000 fans that are asking a better ending, don't be fools Bioware and do what your fans are asking.

20.000 people are a minority, less than 0,02 percent of the over 1 million units sold.

Even if 1 or 2 percent of the people who bought Mass Effect 3 are dissatisfied 98% satisfaction is a massive success.

Weak argument. There is no way to prove "98% satisfaction". Unless there's some other poll I don't know about, 20,000 is a very good sample size to gauge the opinions of a product, and this is the hardcore fanbase (that should be predisposed to vouching for content) we're talking about here.

The sample size doesn't lie, and it's spreading to mainstream outlets and consumer sites.

One has to take into account where the sample is taken from.

Taking samples for customer satisfaction from 4chan and BSN is like measuring Obama approval ratings in Afghanistan.

[Cainne Chapel]

xwolfi wrote...

JPLazyNinja wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

I was under the impression that the DLC (From Ashes) was always intended as a CE first bonus...
So why do I get the impressiont hat people think he should be free when from the outset I, personally anyway, was under the impression that the bonus character was a "BONUS" for the CE purchase?

Did I miss something in translation? I dont get the anger over the Day 1 DLC when it was originally announced as a CE perk.

Why did it NEED to be a perk to begin with? Why make a Collector's Edition that intentionally adds a charcter and mission that then requires all other to pay to get? To try to make you buy the CE version to "get the best value." Its a matter of the change in the attitude of Bioware, not the fans, where they care more about increasing profits than rewarding their customers for sticking with them for all these years.

Yeah, look at what they do with dvds for example: we get a nice hard cover, a bonus disc with some making-of, the OST etc, not "deleted scenes" that passed the final cut -therefore important in the whole piece- and then were stripped to be sold separately at a very very high price (10$ could even be okay for a big DLC, but don't forget we pay it 10 euros in Europe )

sure it DIDN'T need to be a perk, but bottom line it was and while Javik doesn't really add much impact to the story, I think he's a nice addition to have on the crew. He doesn't play a pivotal role really, so he's the perfect type of DLC character so to speak.

Also the whole loyal fan thing, i dunno, just sits wrong with me. Bioware makes games, I buy games and tend to enjoy THEIR games, Doesn't mean i've bought EVERY game they've made, but it also doesn't mean they OWE me something.

Bottom line is their a business at the end of the day, they're beholden to pay their employees and workers and owners, like all businesses. Will they be universally loved? No, but no public entity is or ever will be. They have to go for the largest number of happy people.

Now will they try for good will? O fcourse they will, cant stay in business long if you alienate consumers ("fans") but at the same time you cant be beholden to just one base.

I dont mind buying the CE ( I tend to buy CEs of games I like honestly) and personally I rather have an in game bonus than a statue or collectors tin, etc.  So I appreciated the bonus character/weapons/etc and the value was worth it for me.

Is it for everyone? No, I know plenty of fans that dont care for the DLC, but bottom line is I have no problem with how they went about it.

[GuyIncognito21]

Solmanian wrote...

I'm curious. All those crying about day-1 dlc: do you believe everything included in the DDE and CE should also be free for you, simply because it was finished before launch day?

Is that a serious question?  Of course not.  I don't give one little crap about toy dogs or comic books or whatever other trinkets traditionally accompany CEs

That's really got nothing to do with the issue here.  The issue is that essential game content is NOT traditionally associated with CEs and BioWare is trying to make it that way.

[Freakiq]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

I'm curious. All those crying about day-1 dlc: do you believe everything included in the DDE and CE should also be free for you, simply because it was finished before launch day?

Is that a serious question?  Of course not.  I don't give one little crap about toy dogs or comic books or whatever other trinkets traditionally accompany CEs

That's really got nothing to do with the issue here.  The issue is that essential game content is NOT traditionally associated with CEs and BioWare is trying to make it that way.

The prothean is about as essential as Zaeed.

The only thing I cared about in the DLC was the weapons and alternate outfits.

[darkdruid117]

Michael Gamble wrote...

Hi,

There has a been a lot of discussion this weekend about our DLC, and i just wanted to say a few things...

From Ashes is a 600 MB+ download with all new content, including the mission on Eden Prime, new dialogue options and conversations with Javik, new cinematics, the Prothean weapon, and new appearances for all squad members. All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc.

As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2. 

So everything is planned from the get go as far as what will be in the game and what would be included as a DLC. If this is the case then would the assumtion that only items that would be core to the game would be a focus while others simply get the framework to prevent the game from getting delayed or getting less focus?  

I am not trying to bash, I am really interested on how the process of choosing what will be a DLC, what is core and what is just thrown out works and who has a say in it.

[crazyrabbits]

Freakiq wrote...

One has to take into account where the sample is taken from.

Taking samples for customer satisfaction from 4chan and BSN is like measuring Obama approval ratings in Afghanistan.

Yet, it's not just those sites. It's being linked on many consumer sites, gaming blogs and Facebook pages. It's close to 30,000 in less than a week. That's huge, regardless of where the sample is sourced from.

[Freakiq]

crazyrabbits wrote...

Freakiq wrote...

One has to take into account where the sample is taken from.

Taking samples for customer satisfaction from 4chan and BSN is like measuring Obama approval ratings in Afghanistan.

Yet, it's not just those sites. It's being linked on many consumer sites, gaming blogs and Facebook pages. It's close to 30,000 in less than a week. That's huge, regardless of where the sample is sourced from.

Sure, but you have to take into account that those who are dissatisfied with the game will look for threads and polls to vent.

Meanwhile those who are satisfied are less likely to seek them out.

I work with HVAC and regurlarly check the air quality and ventilation in apartments, part of that job is handing out  questionairres to the inhabitants.
It's a fact that those who are dissatisfied with the air quality or maintenance jobs are more likely to respond while those who have nothing to complain about tend to ignore them.

Same thing applies here, those who are satisfied stay quiet.

[Descedent]

Freakiq wrote...

crazyrabbits wrote...

Freakiq wrote...

One has to take into account where the sample is taken from.

Taking samples for customer satisfaction from 4chan and BSN is like measuring Obama approval ratings in Afghanistan.

Yet, it's not just those sites. It's being linked on many consumer sites, gaming blogs and Facebook pages. It's close to 30,000 in less than a week. That's huge, regardless of where the sample is sourced from.

Sure, but you have to take into account that those who are dissatisfied with the game will look for threads and polls to vent.

Meanwhile those who are satisfied are less likely to seek them out.

I work with HVAC and regurlarly check the air quality and ventilation in apartments, part of that job is handing out  questionairres to the inhabitants.
It's a fact that those who are dissatisfied with the air quality or maintenance jobs are more likely to respond while those who have nothing to complain about tend to ignore them.

Same thing applies here, those who are satisfied stay quiet.

agreed it's only bad things, or when you F up does the public come out thrashing you.

regardless of all the right things or good things you did. 

That is simple Consumerism 

[crazyrabbits]

Freakiq wrote...

Sure, but you have to take into account that those who are dissatisfied with the game will look for threads and polls to vent.

Meanwhile those who are satisfied are less likely to seek them out.

I work with HVAC and regurlarly check the air quality and ventilation in apartments, part of that job is handing out  questionairres to the inhabitants.
It's a fact that those who are dissatisfied with the air quality or maintenance jobs are more likely to respond while those who have nothing to complain about tend to ignore them.

Same thing applies here, those who are satisfied stay quiet.

Someone being unsatisfied with a two-hour work order is different than someone who has invested 60-100 hours in a series over five years and feels let down. I know all about the "silent majority" - that's true in any situation.

All I have to go on is empirical information, and what it shows is a massive, massive disparity between people who didn't like the endings and those who hated it (to tune of 97% dissatisfaction). It's very hard to ignore those numbers, regardless of where they're sourced from, and it's only getting larger by the day. You have no way to prove otherwise.

Take a look through the Amazon listings for this game. Plenty of people have bought the game and are saying the same thing.

Regardless, I'm not going to get into a debate about statistics on this forum. Other people who actually work in the field have posted verifying the same thing.

[GuyIncognito21]

Freakiq wrote...

The prothean is about as essential as Zaeed.

The only thing I cared about in the DLC was the weapons and alternate outfits.

Zaeed was free.  They can release all the free DLC they want and nobody will complain.

And, for the record, I'm not as interested in the character (whose accent is insufferable and unintentionally hilarious to me in the context of the game) as I am in the narrative information contained in the DLC.

[Freakiq]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Freakiq wrote...

The prothean is about as essential as Zaeed.

The only thing I cared about in the DLC was the weapons and alternate outfits.

Zaeed was free.  They can release all the free DLC they want and nobody will complain.

And, for the record, I'm not as interested in the character (whose accent is insufferable and unintentionally hilarious to me in the context of the game) as I am in the narrative information contained in the DLC.

Everything of importance you learn from him is explained from another source later in the game anyway.

The only thing you get from him is a small insight into Prothean culture, no factual information or anything useful. 

[Squallypo]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Freakiq wrote...

The prothean is about as essential as Zaeed.

The only thing I cared about in the DLC was the weapons and alternate outfits.

Zaeed was free.  They can release all the free DLC they want and nobody will complain.

And, for the record, I'm not as interested in the character (whose accent is insufferable and unintentionally hilarious to me in the context of the game) as I am in the narrative information contained in the DLC.

by Assuming that Zaeed was free your suggesting that the Game was also Free. 
nothing no DLC is actually *Free* you pay for it, when you bought the game you have already paid for the zaeed content as well, now when the game has already been released and they start working in new content they either have the options of giving that as for free or Charged. theres a difference

[Jussylein]

Christina Norman have right, all Words Signed ;-)


"We just want to release awesome stuff. Players please, give us a
chance. Judge our games based on what they are. Judge the DLC based on
what it is.

"Stop thinking you're a producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content."


www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-12-ex-mass-effect-dev-pleads-judge-dlc-based-on-what-it-is

Bioware The Protheaner DLC`S is great Thank you for The Charakter<3

Modifié par Lady Of Darkness, 12 mars 2012 - 03:41 .

[GuyIncognito21]

Squallypo wrote...

by Assuming that Zaeed was free your suggesting that the Game was also Free. 
nothing no DLC is actually *Free* you pay for it, when you bought the game you have already paid for the zaeed content as well, now when the game has already been released and they start working in new content they either have the options of giving that as for free or Charged. theres a difference

I think you're parsing my words a bit too much, but you're correct.  Zaeed wasn't "free," he was packaged with the game at no ADDITIONAL cost.

But the point is the same.  Bioware apologists (even BW itself now with the last dev post) keep making the Javik/Zaeed comparison, but to me that just proves my point.

If Javik and Zaeed are essentially the same thing, then they should have been available the same way.

[Squallypo]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

by Assuming that Zaeed was free your suggesting that the Game was also Free. 
nothing no DLC is actually *Free* you pay for it, when you bought the game you have already paid for the zaeed content as well, now when the game has already been released and they start working in new content they either have the options of giving that as for free or Charged. theres a difference

I think you're parsing my words a bit too much, but you're correct.  Zaeed wasn't "free," he was packaged with the game at no ADDITIONAL cost.

But the point is the same.  Bioware apologists (even BW itself now with the last dev post) keep making the Javik/Zaeed comparison, but to me that just proves my point.

If Javik and Zaeed are essentially the same thing, then they should have been available the same way.

pretty much what im saying.

[SLonergan]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Some poeple want to "prove that BioWare lied" or similar. The fact is we didn't. This is how DLC gets made. You can refuse to believe this and continue to think the worst of us. All we can do is tell teh truth, which we continue to do, and those who understand will while those who refuse to believe, wont.

The problem is that this new summary that Michael Gamble posted, while sort of believeable, directly contradicts statements that both he and Casey Hudson made just a couple of weeks ago. I don't buy that the GUI can't be overwritten with a patch, but whatever. I won't get into that now.

The point is, we've been loyal BIoware fans for years. That's why we're on these forums, and that's why we're so passionate. It feels crappy to have the wool pulled over our eyes by a company that we've been going to bat for since the 90s.

The official statement was that development on "From Ashes" didn't begin until the disks were being pressed, and now that it's been discovered that this was a lie, the official statement was "Of COURSE it was in development before the disks were being pressed, but just the framework." Now that it's come out that Javik can be a fully funtioning squadmate (albeit without the Eden Prime mission and some dialog) just by editing one line of code, we know that more than just the framework is on the disk.

But I guess that's just me "refusing to believe".

[TAJ4Life]

Lady Of Darkness wrote...

Christina Norman have right, all Words Signed ;-)


"We just want to release awesome stuff. Players please, give us a
chance. Judge our games based on what they are. Judge the DLC based on
what it is.

"Stop thinking you're a producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content."


www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-12-ex-mass-effect-dev-pleads-judge-dlc-based-on-what-it-is

Bioware The Protheaner DLC`S is great Thank you for The Charakter<3

She doesnt even work for Bioware...So again more false information with her saying 'We' if they want to release awesome stuff then why are they removing the stuff that makes an awesome rpg? Why did we go from a sci fi rpg that was ME 1 to a shooter that was ME 2 and now a diluted rpg shooter that is ME 3 that is also rushed?

There isnt anything great about the ashes DLC either, its very short and very underwhelming and doesnt warrant the price, it being seperate as dlc and the 600m download.

Also the fans havent said 'when' the dlc should be released they are upset that something like that should have been included with the game.

[XPMUser]

If we ever see them releasing another DLC squadmate then there lying

Modifié par XPMUser, 12 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[GuyIncognito21]

TAJ4Life wrote...

Lady Of Darkness wrote...

Christina Norman have right, all Words Signed ;-)


"We just want to release awesome stuff. Players please, give us a
chance. Judge our games based on what they are. Judge the DLC based on
what it is.

"Stop thinking you're a producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content."


www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-12-ex-mass-effect-dev-pleads-judge-dlc-based-on-what-it-is

Bioware The Protheaner DLC`S is great Thank you for The Charakter../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png

She
doesnt even work for Bioware...So again more false information with her
saying 'We' if they want to release awesome stuff then why are they
removing the stuff that makes an awesome rpg? Why did we go from a sci
fi rpg that was ME 1 to a shooter that was ME 2 and now a diluted rpg
shooter that is ME 3 that is also rushed?

There isnt anything
great about the ashes DLC either, its very short and very underwhelming
and doesnt warrant the price, it being seperate as dlc and the 600m
download.

Also the fans havent said 'when' the dlc should be
released they are upset that something like that should have been
included with the game.

Exactly. And if, as many seem to be claiming (and the terrible reviews of 'From Ashes' seem to agree), the DLC is underwhelming and more or less pointless, it just raises an entirely new question:

What's the point of resurrecting the Protheans from 50,000 years of extinction just to give him nothing to do? That ALSO reeks of a cash grab, wherein they made underwhelming DLC but knew they could leverage $10 out of everybody by making the selling point the race itself.

Modifié par GuyIncognito21, 12 mars 2012 - 04:33 .

[Gabey5]

Uhh he is already on the disk, his model,dialogue options etc

The mission is not on the disk is all but everything else is

Modifié par Gabey5, 12 mars 2012 - 04:40 .

[Freakiq]

XPMUser wrote...

If we ever see them releasing another DLC squadmate then there lying

Where lying?

[Dahelia]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

by Assuming that Zaeed was free your suggesting that the Game was also Free. 
nothing no DLC is actually *Free* you pay for it, when you bought the game you have already paid for the zaeed content as well, now when the game has already been released and they start working in new content they either have the options of giving that as for free or Charged. theres a difference

I think you're parsing my words a bit too much, but you're correct.  Zaeed wasn't "free," he was packaged with the game at no ADDITIONAL cost.

But the point is the same.  Bioware apologists (even BW itself now with the last dev post) keep making the Javik/Zaeed comparison, but to me that just proves my point.

If Javik and Zaeed are essentially the same thing, then they should have been available the same way.

Zaeed was an additional cost, he was the additional cost of the Cerebus Network and was not free if you got a used game. Essentially Zaeed was about 10 dollars or so. Also, I will do a comparison for you. Javik is about as essential as Kasumi was in ME2. She was not and he surely isn't. There is no point in fighting over a DLC because the CE got it and the people who bought the SE did not. I bought 3 copies of ME3, 2 SE and one CE. Let me tell you, I have the CE and my fiance has the SE, I have Javik, he does not. There is no difference between the two. The Reapers did not suddenly turn tail and just leave. Javik did nothing to the game and does not add to the game unless you count having an attitude worse than Zaeed adding to the game.

[Aulis Vaara]

Someone else just pointed this out to me, but Javik is essential to the game in another way: he's the only vanguard type character in the game.

In Mass Effect 1, there was one character for each class.

1. Vanguard: Wrex
2. Adept: Liara
3. Sentinel: Kaidan
4. Engineer: Tali
5. Infiltrator: Garrus
6. Soldier: Ashley

In Mass Effect 2, they were a bit more all over the place, but at least each class was still represented. In Mass Effect 3, we're clearly missing a vanguard type character and because of this, the squad is severely lacking in the biotic department, even with Kaidan on your team!

Because Javik is the missing class representative, this still screams to me: cut for DLC, even if not all of it is on the disk.

[Faramis]

This is how capitalism and industry works. The main goal is not to sell perfect product. Because if you sell perfect product, then no one will buy anything more from you and your income flows just dry. So every half-brain dead businessman does what he can to hold his product back in such way, that is not damaging to his product and the product can be improved later on with additional income. This is sick world we live in people, just get used to it or get off your whining asses and do something to actually change it.