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[THE LORD HERESY]

Why are you using my game for a storage device?

[HighFlyingDwarf]

Michael Gamble wrote...

Hi,

There has a been a lot of discussion this weekend about our DLC, and i just wanted to say a few things...

From Ashes is a 600 MB+ download with all new content, including the mission on Eden Prime, new dialogue options and conversations with Javik, new cinematics, the Prothean weapon, and new appearances for all squad members. All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc.

As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2.

1. Zaeed was free with new copies and Kasumi was a POST RELEASE piece of DLC that was released well after the release of the original game (if I remember correctly with regards to the release date, this is perfectly acceptable, as you are using resources post launch of the base product in order to produce content or to ensure that it is working and complete.)

2. From Ashes is the equivalent of the Zaeed DLC but for Mass Effect 3 with the post release pricing of the Kasumi DLC. Instead of incentivizing the purchase of new copies you have charged a premium for content produced before the game was released (multiplayer is not an incentive, the most important part of the game is the single player, of which this withheld content is a crucial part of), proof being that Javik is on the disc and the fact the DLC was released on day one.

3. It's a Prothean, paint it up however you damn well like (with regards to how they are insignificant in ME3), this is the forerunner race of the Mass Effect universe, it should have been included for free at the very least with new copies of the game.

So yes, the title of the topic is essentially correct, From Ashes is not included on the disc, but proof that you were methodically withholding content with the intent to charge a fee for it is available in the form of the models and textures for Javik. That is plain wrong and bad business.

If you choose to defend this business practice then you should take a long hard look at yourself and consider why you are standing up for a company which no longer cares for you.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I'll just leave this here. This idea of a "complete game" is a myth perpetuated by angry consumers who want free stuff.

Cynical Brit on this chart

This chart has been making the rounds and is being used by fanbois to lazily justify Bioware and EA's position.

This is fairly typical, easily influenced people with weak positions tend to flock around things that look scientific. It doesn't mean it's right. To address some specific points.

The production team would lose their jobs! - Bull****, this is Bioware, the game has no risk of failure what-so-ever and will generate x-bajillion dollars. If Bioware-Mythic can dodge a ton of layoffs as a result of Old Republic (the most expensive game Bioware and EA have ever made and not a guaranteed hit), I'm pretty sure they can keep their jobs with Mass Effect 3, a much cheaper game guaranteed to be a success. Not only that but, IT IS NOT OUR PROBLEM. If EA is laying people off like that, shouldn't we be criticising EA for discarding it's employees so readily? Bioware is an incredibly successful studio, you are seriously suggesting they are only days away from losing their jobs if they don't monetise Mass Effect even more than it already is? (already one of the most monetised standard games EA has ever released, if not THE most). Big devs are not charity cases and we shouldn't be expected to pay $70 to get a feature complete game.

Multiplayer replaces Zaeed! - Bull****. Multiplayer has been feature complete for months. The demo build we saw a few weeks back is older code supposedly, Bioware claimed 2 months old. Multiplayer WAS NOT developed in the cycle the Prothean and presumably Zaeed content was supposedly developed in. Multiplayer is a case of a fairly major component of the game being sliced off and used to discourage used sales. It is not an incentive, it is not extra content developed just before launch, it is a dishonest comparison.

It may seem like price gouging, it isn't! - Then pray tell explain why the vast majority of companies don't actually do it. If this was a development reality, we'd be seeing every major publisher and developer doing just this, yet they don't. Day-1 DLC is a reality for only a small minority of these groups, not to mention that more often than not that DLC is mostly cosmetic or very easy to create (weapon packs etc). There are actually very few instances of Day 1 DLC and even less of this importance to the story and die-hard fans. Only Deus Ex has done this recently and there are rumours that Gamestop actually FUNDED that development as a pre-order exclusive, so at least you can semi-understand why it is there. It is incredibly dishonest to suggest that this is a development reality rather than price gouging. If this were true it would be common practice and it most certainly is not.

I say, hold the line. Do not be swayed by the arguments of fanbois and white-knights. Brands have encouraged zealous loyality bordering on fanaticism for years. What better way to get away with murder than have their own consumers whipped into a frenzy to defend their actions and undermine any effort for unified consumer action? Our basic rights as consumers are slowly being eroded by these actions and it has to stop. We as consumers will support and reward reasonable development and business practices, but we will not accept exploitation. The axium remains
"If it's done before release date, it should come with the game".

[DPika1849]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I'll just leave this here.  This idea of a "complete game" is a myth perpetuated by angry consumers who want free stuff.

Thank you for putting this out there.

[Aulis Vaara]

Aulis Vaara wrote...

Johnny Shepard wrote...

Kasumi was also planed from the beginning.

So it would have been bether if they waited 1-2 months before releasing the Prothean pack?

And there are no gaps in the game. So far in my playing I haven't found any place where you have to have Javik.

On Thessia, the way the Protheans look. I really felt an explanation was missing there, one that would've been filled in nicely by having Javik along.

And how many Biotics are in your squad? At best, two. If you have Ashley, only one. A character that represents the Vanguard class is very sorely missing from the game and actively hurting gameplay if you're not a Biotic yourself. Someone else pointed it out to me and it's true. I hadn't noticed in my playthrough because I was a Vanguard myself, but if you play as something else, it's a major gap in your squad.

That said, you know which character is superfluous? EDI. EDI didn't need to be there, she even represents a class that was already covered (Engineer). On top of that, she seems perfect for something like a DLC character, as she has no specific importance to the game and yet is very, very interesting. I think she was planned to be exactly that, but then EA came along and told Bioware to make Javik the Bonus character because everyone would be buying him.

I hope everyone can see what I'm pointing out here.

I'm repeating this, because I feel that all other arguments pale in comparison to the fact that game simply lacking the squadmate is very noticeable.

I don't care about entitlement or whatever, I just feel that if there are gaps in your game that are filled by a day one DLC, it's just obvious that you cut that part out to rip people off as much as you can, and I won't stand for it.

People are free to disagree with me, but I think my arguments stand for themselves.

[Elvis_Mazur]

Oh, of course. Because your word is undeniable proof. How could I have forgotten that. ¬¬

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Just going to leave this comment here as a CE owner.

Javik does play no meaningful role in the story outside of Thessia. He more or less is nothing more than a fancy version of Zaeed/Kasumi.

So while having him might seem like its a must for having a "complete" game, he is far from necessary.

[starscream481]

Johnny Shepard wrote...

But now we get the multiplayer for free insetad. Bioware can't give us everything for free. They have to pay the bills too and make a proffit so that they can make more games.

Yeah, let me get down on my knees and thank BioWare for including multiplayer. That's exactly what I want in my RPGs.

[ct1615]

starscream481 wrote...

Johnny Shepard wrote...

But now we get the multiplayer for free insetad. Bioware can't give us everything for free. They have to pay the bills too and make a proffit so that they can make more games.

Yeah, let me get down on my knees and thank BioWare for including multiplayer. That's exactly what I want in my RPGs.

then you will love Dragon Age III...and its three day one DLC (basically all of your squad mates)....but those where developed by a seperate group so its ok...P.S. if you dont play 20 hours of DA III mulltiplayer then they game will unistall itself after two hours of the single player campaign.

[NeecHMonkeY]

Sora Kitano wrote...

Just going to leave this comment here as a CE owner.

Javik does play no meaningful role in the story outside of Thessia. He more or less is nothing more than a fancy version of Zaeed/Kasumi.

So while having him might seem like its a must for having a "complete" game, he is far from necessary.

Actually, as I mentioned a couple of pages ago Javik seems to be a very important part of the story once you get to Thessia.

As I found, without him the mission makes no sense to to trilogy as no one has seen a Prothean before and had no idea what they looked like... not even Liara. Yet, in that mission everyone seems to know how they looked - because the script in that scene is from before they removed him from the game to be additional paid DLC.

[Aulis Vaara]

Sora Kitano wrote...

Javik does play no meaningful role in the story outside of Thessia.

It's very telling that he does indeed play a major part there.

Sora Kitano wrote...

So while having him might seem like its a must for having a "complete" game, he is far from necessary.

Well, no squadmate is really "necessary" in that way, are they? They all only play an important part in one mission or so. Javik still clearly rounds out your squad AND plays an important part in at least one mission.

Modifié par Aulis Vaara, 14 mars 2012 - 01:24 .

[ct1615]

[quote]NeecHMonkeY wrote...

[quote]... before they removed him from the game to be additional paid DLC.

[/quote]

now that's not true.  bioware just had a seperate team work on him....write all new conversations for him and interaction dialogue with other characters...and then brough back all the VO talent and re-booked studio time to do all that new VO. 

[Swords and Lasers]

It was for the Collector's Edition. When the CE was anounced they stated that it would come with an exclusive squad-mate and mission. Those with the standard edition should be happy they gave you the option to purchase it day one. If I ran things, those who didn't buy the CE would have to wait 6 months or more to have another chance at getting him. On disc or not, why do you think you deserve something that was an incentive to get the collector's edition, without buying the collector's edition? Do you think you should get the hoodie, dog, extra character uniforms, and N7 arsenal too? It was released day one as well...

[NeecHMonkeY]

[quote]ct1615 wrote...

[quote]NeecHMonkeY wrote...

[quote]... before they removed him from the game to be additional paid DLC.

[/quote]

now that's not true.  bioware just had a seperate team work on him....write all new conversations for him and interaction dialogue with other characters...and then brough back all the VO talent and re-booked studio time to do all that new VO. 

[/quote]

Does he really have that much interaction with the crew? Like the other characters onboard the Normandy do?

Wow, it just gets worse.

At least with Zaeed and Kasumi, they were throwaway characters that no one else interacted with.

[BooBooZX]

Swords and Lasers wrote...

It was for the Collector's Edition. When the CE was anounced they stated that it would come with an exclusive squad-mate and mission. Those with the standard edition should be happy they gave you the option to purchase it day one. If I ran things, those who didn't buy the CE would have to wait 6 months or more to have another chance at getting him. On disc or not, why do you think you deserve something that was an incentive to get the collector's edition, without buying the collector's edition? Do you think you should get the hoodie, dog, extra character uniforms, and N7 arsenal too? It was released day one as well...

That argument is getting old, ever occured to you they had somethin else in mind then deadline started comin so they just took javik's recruit mission out?

Also how do you consider one mission that is standard length out of how many, and one character out of 5/6 to be worth 1/6th of the entire game?

Modifié par BooBooZX, 14 mars 2012 - 01:57 .

[ct1615]

[quote]NeecHMonkeY wrote...

[quote]ct1615 wrote...

[quote]NeecHMonkeY wrote...

[quote]... before they removed him from the game to be additional paid DLC.

[/quote]

now that's not true.  bioware just had a seperate team work on him....write all new conversations for him and interaction dialogue with other characters...and then brough back all the VO talent and re-booked studio time to do all that new VO. 

[/quote]

Does he really have that much interaction with the crew? Like the other characters onboard the Normandy do?

Wow, it just gets worse.

At least with Zaeed and Kasumi, they were throwaway characters that no one else interacted with.

[/quote]

he is a lot like zaeed and just like him, he has dialogue during missions and with shepard.  he brings little to the story but was cleary stripped from the main game even if a different team worked on him. 

[Swords and Lasers]

BooBooZX wrote...

Swords and Lasers wrote...

It was for the Collector's Edition. When the CE was anounced they stated that it would come with an exclusive squad-mate and mission. Those with the standard edition should be happy they gave you the option to purchase it day one. If I ran things, those who didn't buy the CE would have to wait 6 months or more to have another chance at getting him. On disc or not, why do you think you deserve something that was an incentive to get the collector's edition, without buying the collector's edition? Do you think you should get the hoodie, dog, extra character uniforms, and N7 arsenal too? It was released day one as well...

That argument is getting old, ever occured to you they had somethin else in mind then deadline started comin so they just took javik's recruit mission out?

Also how do you consider one mission that is standard length out of how many, and one character out of 5/6 to be worth 1/6th of the entire game?

That argument may be old, but that doesn't make it wrong. Have you ever considered that they met there deadline with what they intended. Your arguement is just a theory with no proof behind it.

[BooBooZX]

So? yours isn't much better after all, after how long into the process did they announce that the CE would get a extra character, enough time to make him in full game then  cut him out of the game?

Modifié par BooBooZX, 14 mars 2012 - 02:14 .

[Swords and Lasers]

What? If you go with that idea, then you would agree they also had enough time to put him in the game as well.

[BooBooZX]

Didn't you know he is on the game pc ppl can get full access to basicly EVERYTHING HE HAS by altering one line of code.

masseffectinglife wrote...

Hello all,

Has this been shown yet?' I just found this from the link:

www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/03/12/how-bioware-could-find-redemption-using-mass-effect-3/2/

Definitive proof that the "From Ashes" DLC character is on the disc:




Definitive proof that the "From Ashes" DLC character is on the disc:

1. Open Coalesced.bin with this http://wenchy.net/me...alesced-utility

2. Search for this:
MemberValidCID=22, MemberAvailablePlotLabel=IsSelectableProthean,

3. Replace with this:
MemberValidCID=, MemberAvailablePlotLabel=,

That's it. Javik the Prothean is now unlocked. "From Ashes" not required.


Cause if this is real....

Modifié par BooBooZX, 14 mars 2012 - 02:22 .

[Swords and Lasers]

Who gives a flip if he's already on the disk? Do you think you should have free HBO because you're able to change to that channel?

[BooBooZX]

No comment about the fact he is on the game when you just got proved wrong? all that dlc does is give you the mission that changes that one line of code, a gun, and some more outfits.



how appropriate this came out today, at about 10 mins in.(if that somehow happens to be a no no on here remove that link/inform me somethin, thanks.)

and yea, i guess ME3=HBO, i think since i payed for it i should be able to turn the channel on at lets say 8 and watch w/e is on.

Modifié par BooBooZX, 14 mars 2012 - 02:47 .

[feliciano2040]

Swords and Lasers wrote...

Who gives a flip if he's already on the disk? Do you think you should have free HBO because you're able to change to that channel?

Sense. There is none here.

[Swords and Lasers]

You've all proved that you don't know what the hell you're talking about or how games are made. A bunch of know it all nerds who feel entitled to something they don't own. I don't care if I get banned. I'm just saying what they are thinking. If you don't like how they do business, then stop doing business with them. Sense. There is none on BSN.

[BooBooZX]

.....I kinda do own javik....wheres that link at again...oh yea i already pointed that out, btw how are games made? by a team who get together during x amount of time to release a game in y amount of time. This of course is in attempt to make some form of profit i assume as to not go bankrupt. Would you not care about it if you still had to pay extra $10?

Nice to see you have enough money to go around buying games for $80 (90 in my hypothetical where you still ahve to pay $10 for it) see how fast that almost became $100? idk bout you but i would never spend that much on a SINGLE game.

Modifié par BooBooZX, 14 mars 2012 - 03:16 .

[Aulis Vaara]

Swords and Lasers wrote...

You've all proved that you don't know what the hell you're talking about or how games are made. A bunch of know it all nerds who feel entitled to something they don't own. I don't care if I get banned. I'm just saying what they are thinking. If you don't like how they do business, then stop doing business with them. Sense. There is none on BSN.

We plan to. We just want to get what we already paid for. Or at least I do, but I imagine the sentiment is the same for the others here.

Also, it's better to be a know-it-all nerd than to allow companies to scam you whenever they feel like it. We have made plenty of points showing that Bioware and EA have done nothing but being dishonest with this DLC to get as much money as they possibly can from their fans. And yet you are defending them, because apparently that's fine with you, they can do whatever the hell they want. Honesty and being fair are no longer required in today's world, and we should just suck it up.

I guess I'll apologise for wanting a fair world where you don't get scammed by companies.

Modifié par Aulis Vaara, 14 mars 2012 - 03:20 .