532 réponses à ce sujet

[Soulglow]

Can you guys fix the quest? 'From Eden' is stuck in my quest log with no way to finish it.

[Olej z Maku]

jreezy wrote...
I'm assuming his mission isn't though.

Most likely but it is bad enought as it is.

[Mr.House]

jreezy wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Olej z Maku wrote...

Then why is it possible to unlock Javik without that 600 MB download?

His model is already on the disc.

So is his dialog and powers.

I'm assuming his mission isn't though.

True his mission, the new AR and new outfits are not but the meat is still on the disk.

[nitsaj]

THE LORD HERESY wrote...

@ Michael Gamble and Chris Priestly,

I thank you for taking the time to make and respond to the thread providing information, but in the eyes of many consumers, you've dropped the ball and can't be trusted. I understand this thread is damage control, but this type of information should have been released before the game went gold.

You're a for profit company and know you answer to the publisher and want as many revenue streams as possible from your I.P., I get it. However, in the eyes of many of your customers, you haven't been forthcoming and have sold out for the almighty dollar. Again, I get it, you're a for profit company, you want to monetize everything associated with the product, you want to sell as many copies as possible, make money to send your kids to school, buy fast cars, good food, etc. I understand it and I see no harm in business. However, at what point do you, as a company, look at your company culture and say "You know what? Maybe we shouldn't do this?" At what point do you as a company consider the consumer and their wallets? At what point do you ponder how the little things have a much larger impact than you might be able to admit?

No matter how much people pay for your games, if they are paying for them they are saying “I think I need/want your product, so I’m going to support you.” They are attempting to build a relationship and establish a level of trust, but it seems to me, and many others, that developers no longer trust consumers, simply want the money, and couldn’t care less about the fact that we are paying for betas, broken games, broken promises and lackluster efforts.

In closing, do right by your customers. Talk to them, speak with them, reach out to them and do this before SHTF. If not, you’ll simply spend cycles performing damage control and guess what? If you aren’t careful, another company with a better business model will come in, work hand in hand with the consumer, involve them heavily in the project and make more money than you would expect (and they’ll probably do it with a smaller team and budget.)

Think about what you’re doing because you’re on a dangerous path here…

Well spoken. For my own experiences and intereactions with some companies, they forget the key igredient to their success as a company, your consumers. So to read stuff like, 'They don't know what it's like to do X, so they should shut it when it comes to criticizing us for doing our jobs,' its a blow to the relationship.  In addition. consumers have the right to rant, raze, criticize etc. after all they are spending the money to  pucharse a companies product. At the same time, they must understand, they only see one side of the product, it's finishing piece. As companies, they have to have thick skin. When they they start to attact, alienante, and get into this verbal crap slinging with the public, they lose support. Companies will take their hits from the consumer, and consumers vice versa. It's how the companies respond that ultimately keep those angry fans coming back or shelling out money to their competitors.
 

That said, i think most people woul agree that the response from the Devel team has been a bit less than stellar. Don't get me wrong, a company has the right to defend their product, but they should always be careful about how they delieve that defense. It seems that in some cases, folks didn't really take the time to think before responding; on both sides

Modifié par nitsaj, 12 mars 2012 - 12:25 .

[Rorschachinstein]

Wishpig wrote...

Rorschachinstein wrote...

People that should have bought the game are now pirating like they have some kind of victory. This is a horrible, horrible thing to encourage.

Common now. Saying "Nu uh consumers will just have to deal with it" is what turned this into a PR nightmare

Pirating games is terrible. It is stealing, people don't get this. The way game companies deal with it is terrible. They're making it worse.

Best way to combat it or at least discourage it is by being an open, giving, and friendly company. Over on the Witcher 2 forums, they would lynch pirates if they could.

The Same for Team Fortress2(Although it doesn't matter since it's free now) community. EA has earned such a bad rep that it drags its own properties into the mud.

[Erundil]

Jeez this is sad...

[Jechtshot78]

Lets be clear here. If you have the PC version and unlock this character in the files, it is not piracy. No matter how anyone would try to tell you it is.

[crazyrabbits]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BrazenBoozer wrote...

many people feel that if DLC was planned for a long time before the game went into certification and if it is ready before the game even launches, it should be a part of the core game and shouldn't cost any extra money. This is a legitimate opinion

No it isn't.

If it was budgeted independently, developed independently, and finished independently, it is perfectly legitimate to charge for it separately.  Especially if, and this is the key here, it wouldn't have been planned for or developed at all had there not been an expectation of additional revenue attached to it.

The idea of a "complete game" is a myth perpetuated by angry gamers to justify their desire for more free stuff that costs money, resources, and manpower to produce.  

It's not just EA or Capcom or whoever saying this.  

Tons of things are planned and get cut from games during development, should everything that was once cut and might be implemented at a later date for a fee be considered part of the "complete" game?  It's an arbitrary, selfish distinction that allows players to pretend that they're victims.

I have no problem with paying for DLC, nor did I mind paying for extra characters. This is different.

You can see it clearly in the main game for yourself. The DLC character has conversations with virtually all party members - clear evidence that the voice acting was completed in tandem with the main voice cast.

If it was "developed independently", why are its voice files and character model all on the disc? Why is it fully playable without the 700MB download? Why was it already mentioned in the leaked beta documents all the way back in November (as an early concept, but a squad member none the less)?

There's nothing wrong with wanting additional revenue, but the character (if you play with him) was quite clearly intended to be part of the main game - the conversations and mission cutscenes throughout the game are a testament to this.

I don't mind paying for day 1 DLC - if I know that I'm getting a complete package independent of the game. I find out that half the material is already on the disc, and I'm paying for a glorified unlock key for it. That's my problem.

Modifié par crazyrabbits, 12 mars 2012 - 12:31 .

[upsettingshorts]

I disagree with your evaluation that banter constitutes being in the core of the game.

They've said several times before that if you're going to have a companion level character banter is one of the earliest things you need to have complete.

I legitimately do not care how or where the DLC is on the disc or for download. If it is content I want at a price I am willing to pay, I will do so. If it isn't, I won't, and the "loss" of it won't bother me like it apparently does legions of people whose frustrations I can't relate to in the slightest.

If you really want to know what Javik had to say but didn't see the $10 as worth the price of experiencing it yourself, read the Wikis after other people have typed up a thorough description.  That's what I did with half the Dragon Age DLC.  I don't understand this entitlement to content at all.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[Rorschachinstein]

crazyrabbits wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BrazenBoozer wrote...

many people feel that if DLC was planned for a long time before the game went into certification and if it is ready before the game even launches, it should be a part of the core game and shouldn't cost any extra money. This is a legitimate opinion

No it isn't.

If it was budgeted independently, developed independently, and finished independently, it is perfectly legitimate to charge for it separately.  Especially if, and this is the key here, it wouldn't have been planned for or developed at all had there not been an expectation of additional revenue attached to it.

The idea of a "complete game" is a myth perpetuated by angry gamers to justify their desire for more free stuff that costs money, resources, and manpower to produce.  

It's not just EA or Capcom or whoever saying this.  

Tons of things are planned and get cut from games during development, should everything that was once cut and might be implemented at a later date for a fee be considered part of the "complete" game?  It's an arbitrary, selfish distinction that allows players to pretend that they're victims.

I have no problem with paying for DLC, nor did I mind paying for extra characters. This is different.

You can see it clearly in the main game for yourself. The DLC character has conversations with virtually all party members - clear evidence that the voice acting was completed in tandem with the main voice cast.

If it was "developed independently", why are its voice files and character model all on the disc? Why is it fully playable without the 700MB download? Why was it already mentioned in the leaked beta documents all the way back in November (as an early concept, but a squad member none the less)?

There's nothing wrong with wanting additional revenue, but the character (if you play with him) was quite clearly intended to be part of the main game - the conversations and mission cutscenes throughout the game are a testament to this.

I don't mind paying for day 1 DLC - if I know that I'm getting a complete package independent of the game. I find out that half the material is already on the disc, and I'm paying for a glorified unlock key for it. That's my problem.

Let's not forget that the model in the game still able to acompany you on missions.

[BrazenBoozer]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BrazenBoozer wrote...

many people feel that if DLC was planned for a long time before the game went into certification and if it is ready before the game even launches, it should be a part of the core game and shouldn't cost any extra money. This is a legitimate opinion

No it isn't.

If it was budgeted independently, developed independently, and finished independently, it is perfectly legitimate to charge for it separately.  Especially if, and this is the key here, it wouldn't have been planned for or developed at all had there not been an expectation of additional revenue attached to it.

The idea of a "complete game" is a myth perpetuated by angry gamers to justify their desire for more free stuff that costs money, resources, and manpower to produce.  

It's not just EA or Capcom or whoever saying this.  

Tons of things are planned and get cut from games during development, should everything that was once cut and might be implemented at a later date for a fee be considered part of the "complete" game?  It's an arbitrary, selfish distinction that allows players to pretend that they're victims.

Hold up a minute. It was planned alongside the main game. It was developed alongside the main game. It finished after the game went into certification. It might have had a seperate budget, I don't know the specifics so I'm not going to assume one way or another. But Protheans are a major part of the Mass Effect universe and this is the first and only Prothean we meet. There are only two possibilities (again I haven't yet bought the game): Either he is a major part of the story and therefore should be included with the core game, or he's completely superficial and therefore the writing for the game as a whole is bad and the resources should have been spent elsewhere.

It cannot be denied that this DLC was developed (at least partially) alongside the main game. All I am saying is that it doesn't matter what Bioware/EA thinks and it doesn't matter what the specific details are. It only matters what the consumer thinks. And when people feel as though you've ripped a critical part of the game out only to sell it as Day 1 DLC, clearly you're doing it very, very wrong.

Personally, I'd prefer it if game developers went back to the old "expansion pack" model. But maybe that is no longer financially viable.

[crazyrabbits]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

If it is content I want at a price I am willing to pay, I will do so. If it isn't, I won't, and the "loss" of it won't bother me like it apparently does legions of people whose frustrations I can't relate to in the slightest.

I didn't say it bothered me. I don't own the game. But I see a disturbing precedent (and you're not the only one to say this - I was just replying to someone else about this).

I don't want to be nickel-and-dimed for content I already physically own, even if it's hidden behind an unlock key. If that's your perception, fine, but don't be surprised when large chunks of a game are cut out and sold piecemeal. If I pay $60 for a game, and there's a completed (and playable) character sitting on the disc that I can't play with unless I fork over another $10, that's a problem.

[upsettingshorts]

But I'm not gonna be some volunteer amateur advocate for the DLC model, I've expressed my incredulity at the vitriolic anger over this whole non-issue - to me anyway - thoroughly enough.

It's not like any of you need my permission to be angry. But I will never join in.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 mars 2012 - 12:36 .

[BooBooZX]

The way i see it, the dlc is out when the game comes out, a lot of people are hating on games for day one dlc. So game companies should just let purchasers download all dlc that comes out for x amount of time after the release date(promote buying it near release/consumers would like the company more), that way the consumer will know they are getting the complete game at time of release.

Modifié par BooBooZX, 12 mars 2012 - 12:48 .

[nitsaj]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

But I'm not gonna be some volunteer amateur advocate for the DLC model, I've expressed my incredulity at the vitriolic anger over this whole non-issue - to me anyway - thoroughly enough.

It's not like any of you need my permission to be angry. But I will never join in.

You do realize this begs the question, why post in a threa which you don't understand the issue folks are express AND do not want to join in voicing desent?

I'm not saying that you can't post in the thread, it just seems if you have nothing to contribute for either side of the arguement, then why keep posting, 'I don't see what the big deal it' or 'i don't care" (this being aimed at those in general who seem to take this stances of not caring and saying move on).

BooBooZX wrote...

The way i see it, the dlc is out when
the game comes out, a lot of people are hating on games for day one dlc.
So game companies should just let purchasers download all dlc that
comes out for x amount of time, that way the consumer will know they are
getting the complete game at time of release.

some companies do that, it's called season passes. However, there is still the issue of paying for dlc that's already on the disc, not being able to dl content at the time company said consumers would or in the most extreme cases, releasing this content for free months later.

The DLC concept is flawed, there's no way around it, but there's ways to minimize its flaws.

Modifié par nitsaj, 12 mars 2012 - 12:50 .

[BooBooZX]

Kinda sounds like the extra costumes/mission was to expand the file size so it wouldn't be the obvious "50kb download wtf" thing.

[OneMore1968]

I'll bet everyone (or most on here) will buy the dlc eventually though and any released in the future. Regardless of how annoyed you feel. And you will, because the whole ME trilogy is so good...Nuff said.

[Rorschachinstein]

Carlina wrote...

I'll bet everyone (or most on here) will buy the dlc eventually though and any released in the future. Regardless of how annoyed you feel. And you will, because the whole ME trilogy is so good...Nuff said.

And for people that live in rural areas and are not able to access Xbox Live and PSN?

[Papa John0]

From Ashes was great. Glad to give you my 10 bucks for a well written and interesting character that enhanced the story. I understand that not everything can get done in time for release. I have no hard feelings over the DLC. It's not like Collector's Edition owners had to buy it separate or anything, so it makes sense the way it was put out.

I do, however, expect a response soon on the state of the game's ending. It was truly inexcusable. Again, though, I have no issue paying for a new set of endings as I believe that work should be compensated and understand the crunch to get the game out.

[Shifty Assassin]

I would have preferred a statement about the ending or the problem with getting the perfect ending since some people are stating it's impossible without Multiplayer.

[Poleaxe]

Ten dollar day one dlc that gives insight into one of the main questions of the trilogy is just not going to be popular. It will be purchased because we're invested over multiple years in the world of ME. So while it may be a good way to separate us from our 10 dollar bills, it's a horrible way to keep the customer base happy.

[upsettingshorts]

nitsaj wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

But I'm not gonna be some volunteer amateur advocate for the DLC model, I've expressed my incredulity at the vitriolic anger over this whole non-issue - to me anyway - thoroughly enough.

It's not like any of you need my permission to be angry. But I will never join in.

You do realize this begs the question, why post in a threa which you don't understand the issue folks are express AND do not want to join in voicing desent? 

I'm not saying that you can't post in the thread, it just seems if you have nothing to contribute for either side of the arguement, then why keep posting, 'I don't see what the big deal it' or 'i don't care" (this being aimed at those in general who seem to take this stances of not caring and saying move on).

You misunderstood.  I have specific reasons why I can't relate to the objections, and listed them.  I provided my view on DLC and why I think this is a manufactured issue based on assumptions, false premises, and entitlement.  My first post is on page 1.

The reason I am willing to bow out is I have no interest in arguing against the masses for any prolonged length of time, especially since I'm not Chris Priestley and I'm not paid to do it.   

However, it is important given the popular stance to voice what is clearly a minority point of view around these parts so that both the majority as well as BioWare are aware it exists. 

[Rorschachinstein]

Poleaxe wrote...

Ten dollar day one dlc that gives insight into one of the main questions of the trilogy is just not going to be popular. It will be purchased because we're invested over multiple years in the world of ME. So while it may be a good way to separate us from our 10 dollar bills, it's a horrible way to keep the customer base happy.

Which is my biggest beef right now. Bioware is killing their rep. Good game or bad. Hell I loved DAII, loved the hell out of it.


I'm starting to have doubts that Bioware actually has a PR team

[Star fury]

Michael Gamble wrote...

Hi,

There has a been a lot of discussion this weekend about our DLC, and i just wanted to say a few things...

From Ashes is a 600 MB+ download with all new content, including the mission on Eden Prime, new dialogue options and conversations with Javik, new cinematics, the Prothean weapon, and new appearances for all squad members. All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc.

As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2. 

Mr. Gamble and Bioware, you pretend that you didn't rip off content from the game and put it to DLC in order to make additional money. We, on the other hand, pretend to believe you. Everyone is happy.  

P.S. Just one warning. It's extremely hard to build a trust, but it's very easy to lose it.
P.P.S. About 600 MB+ download - it can be junk files. I hope some guys check it.