532 réponses à ce sujet

[LinksOcarina]

Aulis Vaara wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

What did he add to the table other than more layers to the Prothean Lore? 

Another important biotic squadmate.

LinksOcarina wrote...

It just sounds better with him there.

It doesn't "just" sound better. It sounds so much better that it was obvious he was supposed to be there. And without him, it sounds like something is seriously missing there. I was happy to go through the game without him, but when I got there, it pissed me off all over again.

LinksOcarina wrote...

Javik is not integral to the plot of Mass Effect 3, but he is integral to the lore of Mass Effect 3.

He is important to both. Or is the fact that we are only fighting this war because of the Protheans suddenly irrelevant? Is it not so that we are fighting this war as much for them as for every other species still alive. Are we not trying to make them proud? Making their sacrifices worthwhile?

LinksOcarina wrote...

As for Garrus, he is vital to the story by virtue of the fact of being involved in the story. His arc; becoming a leader under the tutalege of Shepard, concludes in 3 after taking a turn in 2. Garrus comes full circle and finally has responsabilites and makes decisions on his own without second guessing them. He is also part of the story because he is involved in the main plot, albiet indirectly as one of the few Turians who was working to help his kind be prepared for the Reapers. So Garrus is the opposite of Javik, he brings little to the Turian lore, but he is important to the story because of the comraderie with Shepard and his arc as a character.

How is Javik not "involved in the story" ? How is Garrus' character arc any more important than that of Javik? How does Javik not come full circle for fighting and defeating the enemy he was born to fight and defeat, avenging his entire species in the process? How does Javik not have a unique relationship with Shepard, much different from Garrus' but no less important?

1) A game mechanic that means little. Liara is the only definite biotic you have, and she is really all you needed. Its a nice bonus to have a second biotic, but its not necessary, like Sebastian in Dragon Age II being a second archer.

2) I guess it affected me differently, I played both sides of that with and without him, it was cooler with him id admit, but he was still unecessary to the scene overall.

3) Shepard is not fighting for the Protheans, he is fighting for Earth. The Protheans may have saved him in game one, but since then he has been on his own doing the dirty work against the Reapers. So yeah, it is irrelevent because they already did their part in game one. They only come back because of the Crucible in game three, and even then its not a design they made as we found out from the catalyst anyway. 

There is no reason to make them proud because they are dead. You can honor the sacrifice, but Shepard already did that because the Protheans bought them some time. And we need to keep in mind Javik was not a part of that group at all, ergo he offers nothing useful to the plot that can save them. Javik as a character, as a prothean, did nothing to help Shepard, its John Doe the Prothean, the guy who programmed Vigil, that deserves the credit.

4) You got me there, he does go through growth. But one thing that is very apparent is that he changes little when compared to Garrus. Javik comes to respect what Shepard does as a leader, despite disagreeing with a lot of what Shepard can do. Javik comes full circle because he believes these primitive species deserve the right to try to win. He doesn't think they will win, he never states that in the game until one specific moment towards the end.

And Garrus is more important because he has three games of growth to go through, whereas Javik has one. Its cold, hard math really; Garrus had a planned arc that peaks, decends, and he learns from it, and Garrus' arc is mostly due to the struggles of the plotline, not the games lore. Javiks arc involves his direct connection to his previous beliefs, the lore of the Protheans. He learns from Shepard yes, and begins to let go some of his edge, but it is always within the context of what his people should do. "In my cycle" is a common phrase, and is very appropriate because he discusses the past history of his people, and it colors his judgements in the present.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 16 mars 2012 - 04:12 .

[SoR82]

I jsut keep getting an error and told to reinstal (digital n7 edition as Gamestation are... well) however i cannot find a reinstal option ANYWHERE in origin or anywhere else it just says installed.

[cipher86]

Leaked script says Javik being an afterthought is a lie. He was originally one of the main plot devices. Lying to cover up lies = insulting.

[LinksOcarina]

cipher86 wrote...

Leaked script says Javik being an afterthought is a lie. He was originally one of the main plot devices. Lying to cover up lies = insulting.

Leaked script is not evidence anymore because its over a year old and a pre-production script, which usually changes before and during production of the game.

[truedark]

cipher86 wrote...

Leaked script says Javik being an afterthought is a lie. He was originally one of the main plot devices. Lying to cover up lies = insulting.

Except he got cut. Things get cut in game development, and sometimes, later on, when you have time to work on more stuff you might want to take something that you cut and put it in because it was a good idea. Especially considering that content is done well before the team begins polishing.

[MACharlie1]

I do think Javik being post production is a big lie...but not because of the script. But because there is so much dialog between the squadmates. A DLC character, judging from Bioware's past, never had as much dialog from all the characters. Zaeed and Kasumi? Only Shepard and Kelly act like he exists. All story based DLCs? No squadmate dialog whatsoever minus a line or two which was obviously stock audio.

It has a little too much content to be a DLC...

[LinksOcarina]

MACharlie1 wrote...

I do think Javik being post production is a big lie...but not because of the script. But because there is so much dialog between the squadmates. A DLC character, judging from Bioware's past, never had as much dialog from all the characters. Zaeed and Kasumi? Only Shepard and Kelly act like he exists. All story based DLCs? No squadmate dialog whatsoever minus a line or two which was obviously stock audio.

It has a little too much content to be a DLC...

What about Sebastian and Shale?

[MACharlie1]

LinksOcarina wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

I do think Javik being post production is a big lie...but not because of the script. But because there is so much dialog between the squadmates. A DLC character, judging from Bioware's past, never had as much dialog from all the characters. Zaeed and Kasumi? Only Shepard and Kelly act like he exists. All story based DLCs? No squadmate dialog whatsoever minus a line or two which was obviously stock audio.

It has a little too much content to be a DLC...

What about Sebastian and Shale?

Different team. And I'm not sure what DA said about them. Aren't they free with new copies regardless? 

DAs team has done a great job with the squads and makes the DLCs pretty conclusive. ME since Bring Down the Sky has sucked in that department. I could imagine this has to do with the fact that DAs voice acting team is composed of smaller actors in comparison to Kimberly Brooks, Raphael Sbarge, Yvonne Strahovski in addition to Jennifer Hale. 

Modifié par MACharlie1, 17 mars 2012 - 02:09 .

[LinksOcarina]

MACharlie1 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

I do think Javik being post production is a big lie...but not because of the script. But because there is so much dialog between the squadmates. A DLC character, judging from Bioware's past, never had as much dialog from all the characters. Zaeed and Kasumi? Only Shepard and Kelly act like he exists. All story based DLCs? No squadmate dialog whatsoever minus a line or two which was obviously stock audio.

It has a little too much content to be a DLC...

What about Sebastian and Shale?

Different team. And I'm not sure what DA said about them. Aren't they free with new copies regardless?

Shale was. Sebastian was free for signature edition buyers only at a time but they upgraded any pre-orders at the time because people were stirring a bit.

You may be right, it could be different teams. Although it is also possible that the Mass Effect team took to heart the notes about Zaeed and Kasumi.

[MACharlie1]

LinksOcarina wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

I do think Javik being post production is a big lie...but not because of the script. But because there is so much dialog between the squadmates. A DLC character, judging from Bioware's past, never had as much dialog from all the characters. Zaeed and Kasumi? Only Shepard and Kelly act like he exists. All story based DLCs? No squadmate dialog whatsoever minus a line or two which was obviously stock audio.

It has a little too much content to be a DLC...

What about Sebastian and Shale?

Different team. And I'm not sure what DA said about them. Aren't they free with new copies regardless?

Shale was. Sebastian was free for signature edition buyers only at a time but they upgraded any pre-orders at the time because people were stirring a bit.

You may be right, it could be different teams. Although it is also possible that the Mass Effect team took to heart the notes about Zaeed and Kasumi.

Could be. But after Liara's scene with Javik after Thessia...it seemed rather...odd that such a scene was "added in later". 

And if you don't bring Javik to Thessia, other squadmates will have a line or two about the Prothean statues inside the temple. Just a little TOO thorough. 

[truedark]

MACharlie1 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

I do think Javik being post production is a big lie...but not because of the script. But because there is so much dialog between the squadmates. A DLC character, judging from Bioware's past, never had as much dialog from all the characters. Zaeed and Kasumi? Only Shepard and Kelly act like he exists. All story based DLCs? No squadmate dialog whatsoever minus a line or two which was obviously stock audio.

It has a little too much content to be a DLC...

What about Sebastian and Shale?

Different team. And I'm not sure what DA said about them. Aren't they free with new copies regardless?

Shale was. Sebastian was free for signature edition buyers only at a time but they upgraded any pre-orders at the time because people were stirring a bit.

You may be right, it could be different teams. Although it is also possible that the Mass Effect team took to heart the notes about Zaeed and Kasumi.

Could be. But after Liara's scene with Javik after Thessia...it seemed rather...odd that such a scene was "added in later". 

And if you don't bring Javik to Thessia, other squadmates will have a line or two about the Prothean statues inside the temple. Just a little TOO thorough. 

It depends on the character you bring. I brought Tali and she was stating the same things as Javik, except she couldn't actually say, "Liara, you're wrong, these are Protheans."

[MACharlie1]

truedark wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

I do think Javik being post production is a big lie...but not because of the script. But because there is so much dialog between the squadmates. A DLC character, judging from Bioware's past, never had as much dialog from all the characters. Zaeed and Kasumi? Only Shepard and Kelly act like he exists. All story based DLCs? No squadmate dialog whatsoever minus a line or two which was obviously stock audio.

It has a little too much content to be a DLC...

What about Sebastian and Shale?

Different team. And I'm not sure what DA said about them. Aren't they free with new copies regardless?

Shale was. Sebastian was free for signature edition buyers only at a time but they upgraded any pre-orders at the time because people were stirring a bit.

You may be right, it could be different teams. Although it is also possible that the Mass Effect team took to heart the notes about Zaeed and Kasumi.

Could be. But after Liara's scene with Javik after Thessia...it seemed rather...odd that such a scene was "added in later". 

And if you don't bring Javik to Thessia, other squadmates will have a line or two about the Prothean statues inside the temple. Just a little TOO thorough. 

It depends on the character you bring. I brought Tali and she was stating the same things as Javik, except she couldn't actually say, "Liara, you're wrong, these are Protheans."

I'm sorry - I missed the point I was making here. The squadmates talk about Javik in the temple. These significantly minor things don't typically show up in DLCs. 

I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe they brought Freddie Prince Jr. back in for a grand total of 10 lines at most about Javik. 

Modifié par MACharlie1, 17 mars 2012 - 03:41 .

[LinksOcarina]

Youd be surprised, voice acting like that, especially if its contractual, tends to go through a lot of ADR at times.

[MACharlie1]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Youd be surprised, voice acting like that, especially if its contractual, tends to go through a lot of ADR at times.

Like I said, I'm going by the Mass Effect team's precedents. 

[devSin]

I think Sebastian is mostly on the disc. Isn't his download only like 35MB or something? (I don't think they ever even said anything about it, and I don't think anybody ever really even cared.)

Shale exists only because they pushed the release of Origins back (to have simultaneous console releases) almost by a full year. This gave David the time to finish her, and I guess they were able to get the cast back to do lines. Best decision ever made by a video game developer.


Although I can't commit to buying it, I hope that any DLC follows the lead of the DA2 team and has the full squad cast returning with new dialogue. Make it happen, Mike!

Modifié par devSin, 17 mars 2012 - 07:50 .

[BlindScarab]

I'm sorry but DLC is like putting a Luxury tax on a car, its only function is to squeeze a bit more money out of the desperate and those who can afford to be frivolous. I understand that in years bygone these items would have been released in a substantially larger pack known as an "expansion", so I guess DLC could be looked at as "micro expansion" or "trickle expansion, but regardless of how you describe it to people, its still a scam! All consumers understand that its more economical to a company to release these micro expansions to provide continued funding to the development teams, but some companies abuse this and I think that causes a heightened level of emotional agitation for the end user.

Here is a theoretical scenario;

In my AU$110 ME3 Collectors Ed, I got a M55 Carbine for my Pre-order.
This is acceptable.

In a game like Skyrim the M55 would be a community mod, still the best way to get DLC ..... except for the intellectually crippled who use consoles, I really do feel for them.
This is acceptable and preferable.

The M55 might be released in a AU$90 major expansion a year or so in the future.
This is acceptable.

The M55 could be packaged and released as AU$0.99 DLC five days after ME3 core game is released.
This is unacceptable, this is despicable.

Civilisation V is a prime example of this type of marketing, a mediocre game which used the reputation of its predecessors to sell the core game. They company then proceeds to release numerous and highly priced DLC to the end user, DLC which is so basic that almost any fan could have made it for the mod community.

Currently, in regards to the marketing of DLC anyway, Bioware had done nothing to make me nervous. I (almost) always enjoy the extra content which ships with a collectors ed and see the standard as a stripped down version for those who just want the game with no frills.

Although I have just complete my 1st ME3 play through and only now got my "Ashs" DLC thanks to that useless Steam knock-off called Origin. It kept saying "no content available" every time I entered the code so I assumed the code was incorrect, its only now I have realised if you ignore that and hit the "next" button it will complete successfully ........ seriously EA, wtf.

[voteDC]

So if I've been reading the thread correctly everything about Javik is on the disc, from dialogue in cut-scenes to squad-banter aboard the Normandy.

All that is missing is the actual mission on Eden Prime?

[Intiakel]

voteDC wrote...
All that is missing is the actual mission on Eden Prime?

Pretty much

[nysports89]

im still not done with ME2...i just bought kasumi(waste of money) and shadow broker. I dont mind buying DLC if its worth it, but i definitely dont like getting lied to...im on the fence on this one.

Not to mention I didnt get arrival DLC yet, mass effect is turning into an investment lol.

Its just funny how much content is offered in a game like skyrim compared to mass effect.

Modifié par nysports89, 17 mars 2012 - 06:47 .

[nysports89]

if knights of the old republic was released today, they would have hk-47 as dlc

[Canned Bullets]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I'll just leave this here.  This idea of a "complete game" is a myth perpetuated by angry consumers who want free stuff.

Oh look, this picture again.


Mass Effect 3 is EA's prime money-maker this year so EA has a lot of money invested into this. The only reason the Prothean is day one DLC is because the contrived multiplayer mode was forced in and reaped resources from the single player (important part) development. Also, the Prothean IS on the disk, but apparently it's the mission that's on the disk, not the squadmate.

Modifié par Canned Bullets, 17 mars 2012 - 06:53 .

[Scoob]

Canned Bullets wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I'll just leave this here.  This idea of a "complete game" is a myth perpetuated by angry consumers who want free stuff.

Oh look, this picture again.


Mass Effect 3 is EA's prime money-maker this year so EA has a lot of money invested into this. The only reason the Prothean is day one DLC is because the contrived multiplayer mode was forced in and reaped resources from the single player (important part) development. Also, the Prothean IS on the disk, but apparently it's the mission that's on the disk, not the squadmate.

It's actually the other way around.

[BooBooZX]

You can tell who just read the first page and last page by the ppl who say things like that, that havent seen the video link 50,000 times.

[fishcp2]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I'll just leave this here.  This idea of a "complete game" is a myth perpetuated by angry consumers who want free stuff.

"Quality assurance". "Certification". "Bug fixing". "Consumers who want free stuff".

Nice. So, about the face import problem...any fancy expressions for people who PAY $80 in advance for a game with a major BUG that doesn't even allow them to play (not for real), even after the QUALITY ASSURANCE and CERTIFICATION processes ? I mean, other than "fool" or "idiot", of course.

[tyranolol]

DLC incoming money for EA, i hope bioware stop making business with this ****ing **** company, it doesn't matter if i must wait 6 moths or a year to have a game but i don't want dlcs to have the things that should be from the start on the game i had pay, it's really hilarious, and now what? a DLC with the good ending that all expect, just anoyed with EA like always, is like i'm going to buy a pizza and they said me that only i get half of the ingredients and if i want the rest i must pay more that the price on the menu...