532 réponses à ce sujet

[SLonergan]

Sora Kitano wrote...

The only thing that surprises me in this thread is how violently the raging minority is flipping out over this. Honestly, the youtube link that shows you how to effectively steal, and yes it should be considered stealing because you are getting the benefits of the DLC without getting the DLC, is still even up. I would have thought by now that the video would have been taken down because of just prevalent advocacy of piracy both by the uploader through showing people how to access the content, and by the many comments leading people over to well known piracy sites to outright steal the game itself. Odds are that most of the violently opposed people against the DLC dont have a clue about anything in game development and are just trying to test how far they can go before they get nailed for ToS violations.

It's absolutely NOT stealing to access something that is on a disc that you bought. It's the equivalent of using a computer to find Easter Eggs on a DVD. It's Bioware's fault for putting the data on the disc.

Which they lied about.

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

Sora Kitano wrote...

 the youtube link that shows you how to effectively steal

Metaphor: I bought a book. Chapter Three of the book was sealed with tape. The publisher of the book released a booklet that includes an additional story arc, as well as a tool for removing the tape. If I remove the tape without the tool, am I stealing from the publisher?

Statement: Nope.

[killnoob]

crazyrabbits wrote...

Sora Kitano wrote...

The only thing that surprises me in this thread is how violently the raging minority is flipping out over this. Honestly, the youtube link that shows you how to effectively steal, and yes it should be considered stealing because you are getting the benefits of the DLC without getting the DLC, is still even up. I would have thought by now that the video would have been taken down because of just prevalent advocacy of piracy both by the uploader through showing people how to access the content, and by the many comments leading people over to well known piracy sites to outright steal the game itself. Odds are that most of the violently opposed people against the DLC dont have a clue about anything in game development and are just trying to test how far they can go before they get nailed for ToS violations.

Thanks for coming into the topic so late without reading any of the 10 posts above you.

1) Forbes is calling out Bioware for this. If that's not "mainstream", I don't know what is.

2) "Effectively stealing" is not the same as "accessing content on the disc you, as a consumer, own."

3) We were busy debating at what point a company has control over the assets on your the game you paid for and own a physical copy of.

Think about it like this.

If the company tells you that some content on your disk which you paid 60 dollars for requires you to pay 10 more dollars to unlock, and if you actually want the content, then man up then pay the 10 dollars.

If you don't want the content, don't pay and resume gaming without it. It's not terribly important anyway.

If the company tells you that the content requires you to pay 100 dollars, refund the game, and they lose 60 dollars.

I dont even know what's there to argue about?

[Shssay-san]

@suusuuu:  But they do. They're giving everyone time to finish it and weigh in if they desire. Like I said, it hasn't even been released in Japan yet.

Modifié par Shssay-san, 12 mars 2012 - 04:08 .

[suusuuu]

They lied about many things during the developement.

Sad thing this happens more frequently recently.

[crazyrabbits]

killnoob wrote...

Think about it like this.

If the company tells you that some content on your disk which you paid 60 dollars for requires you to pay 10 more dollars to unlock, and if you actually want the content, then man up then pay the 10 dollars.

If you don't want the content, don't pay and resume gaming without it. It's not terribly important anyway.

If the company tells you that the content requires you to pay 100 dollars, refund the game, and they lose 60 dollars.

I dont even know what's there to argue about?

You're paying to unlock content that you already own and paid for when you bought the game from whichever outlet you so choose. You're paying $10 extra dollars to access content that you already partially own and can access with less time than it takes to complete the download.

Seriously, the entire character can be accessed right from the disc, and can be played, has a full skill tree, conversations...AFAIK, everything except the recruitment mission.

That's the problem.

Modifié par crazyrabbits, 12 mars 2012 - 04:09 .

[killnoob]

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...

Sora Kitano wrote...

 the youtube link that shows you how to effectively steal

Metaphor: I bought a book. Chapter Three of the book was sealed with tape. The publisher of the book released a booklet that includes an additional story arc, as well as a tool for removing the tape. If I remove the tape without the tool, am I stealing from the publisher?

Statement: Nope.

Right but games are not books.

They are digital.

We live in a society where new mediums are suppressing the old.

Now think about it, if you have a ebook and chapter 3 is sealed with encription. If you remove that without a tool ( using your own means) then yes you're effectively stealing.

PS. don't ask me my stance on piracy.

Modifié par killnoob, 12 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[SLonergan]

killnoob wrote...

Think about it like this.

If the company tells you that some content on your disk which you paid 60 dollars for requires you to pay 10 more dollars to unlock, and if you actually want the content, then man up then pay the 10 dollars.

If you don't want the content, don't pay and resume gaming without it. It's not terribly important anyway.

If the company tells you that the content requires you to pay 100 dollars, refund the game, and they lose 60 dollars.

I dont even know what's there to argue about?

The content is already on the disk that YOU PAID FOR. You own EVERYTHING on that disk. If you want the additional content that comes with the 600mb download, then yes, pay the $10. But you bought the disc, and you have a right to all the content on that disc.

[killnoob]

crazyrabbits wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Think about it like this.

If the company tells you that some content on your disk which you paid 60 dollars for requires you to pay 10 more dollars to unlock, and if you actually want the content, then man up then pay the 10 dollars.

If you don't want the content, don't pay and resume gaming without it. It's not terribly important anyway.

If the company tells you that the content requires you to pay 100 dollars, refund the game, and they lose 60 dollars.

I dont even know what's there to argue about?

You're paying to unlock content that you already own and paid for when you bought the game from whichever outlet you so choose.

Seriously, the entire character can be accessed right from the disc, and can be played, has a full skill tree, conversations...AFAIK, everything except the recruitment mission.

That's the problem.

Yes, then what's there to argue then? Use that character however you want, without the mission.

If you access the recruitment mission without paying the 10 dollars, you're stealing.
If you're only playing with the character without the mission, you're not.

Seriously, tell me again, what are we arguing about?

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

killnoob wrote...

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...

Sora Kitano wrote...

 the youtube link that shows you how to effectively steal

Metaphor: I bought a book. Chapter Three of the book was sealed with tape. The publisher of the book released a booklet that includes an additional story arc, as well as a tool for removing the tape. If I remove the tape without the tool, am I stealing from the publisher?

Statement: Nope.

Right but games are not books.

They are digital.

We live in a society where new mediums are suppressing the old.

Now think about it, if you have a ebook and chapter 3 is sealed with tape. If you remove that without a tool ( using your own means) then yes you're effectively stealing.

PS. don't ask me my stance on piracy.

Incidentally, this is why I don't buy e-books. I also don't think I could bring myself to support a video game that doesn't allow modding, or attempts to disallow it. (If it's even legal to disallow modding, which it probably isn't - see above statement about the court case and below statement on iphone jailbreaking.)

Modifié par Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut, 12 mars 2012 - 04:15 .

[crazyrabbits]

killnoob wrote...

Yes, then what's there to argue then? Use that character however you want, without the mission.

If you access the recruitment mission without paying the 10 dollars, you're stealing.
If you're only playing with the character without the mission, you're not.

Seriously, tell me again, what are we arguing about?

You tell me - I was debating the points of whether or not it's right to pay for assets on the disc you already own.

[Mizanurification]

killnoob wrote...

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...

Sora Kitano wrote...

 the youtube link that shows you how to effectively steal

Metaphor: I bought a book. Chapter Three of the book was sealed with tape. The publisher of the book released a booklet that includes an additional story arc, as well as a tool for removing the tape. If I remove the tape without the tool, am I stealing from the publisher?

Statement: Nope.

Right but games are not books.

They are digital.

We live in a society where new mediums are suppressing the old.

Now think about it, if you have a ebook and chapter 3 is sealed with tape. If you remove that without a tool ( using your own means) then yes you're effectively stealing.

PS. don't ask me my stance on piracy.

Is jailbreaking an iPhone stealing? No. 

Lying is a sin. Yes. 

Enough said.

Modifié par Mizanurification, 12 mars 2012 - 04:15 .

[Squallypo]

this is what we know as Consumer Exploitation:
when a producer is doing selfish deeds for his/her own benifit and the decision is a purpose giving more than mental happiness for only the producer and hAVING ADVERSE EFFECTS ON CONSUMER WHO MAY BE ILLETERATE OR UNAWARE ETC

[killnoob]

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...

Sora Kitano wrote...

 the youtube link that shows you how to effectively steal

Metaphor: I bought a book. Chapter Three of the book was sealed with tape. The publisher of the book released a booklet that includes an additional story arc, as well as a tool for removing the tape. If I remove the tape without the tool, am I stealing from the publisher?

Statement: Nope.

Then that is your personal choice.



Right but games are not books.

They are digital.

We live in a society where new mediums are suppressing the old.

Now think about it, if you have a ebook and chapter 3 is sealed with tape. If you remove that without a tool ( using your own means) then yes you're effectively stealing.

PS. don't ask me my stance on piracy.

Incidentally, this is why I don't buy e-books. I don't think I could bring myself to support a video game that doesn't allow modding. (If it's even legal to disallow modding - see above statement about the court case.)

Then that is your personal choice and I won't even try to change your mind, because I don't "buy" ebook either. As for video games, I'm pretty sure if you have the means to mod it how you want, you can do so. Gibb's save game editior allows me to basically cheat in ME1 to 3, but who can stop me? 

As far as I'm aware there's no law against modding.
There is law against, however, illegally breaking an encription to access data that requires you to pay money for.
And it's only in some countries.

[killnoob]

Lying is a sin. Yes. 

Enough said.

If that's what you believe,

then I won't waste my breath arguing with you.

[Squallypo]

killnoob wrote...

Lying is a sin. Yes. 

Enough said.

If that's what you believe,

then I won't waste my breath arguing with you.

you make it sound like lying is a justified cause.
sounds selfish to me

[killnoob]

Squallypo wrote...

this is what we know as Consumer Exploitation:
when a producer is doing selfish deeds for his/her own benifit and the decision is a purpose giving more than mental happiness for only the producer and hAVING ADVERSE EFFECTS ON CONSUMER WHO MAY BE ILLETERATE OR UNAWARE ETC

Get aware then.

Don't be naive.

This is a world of dog eats dog, if you're stupid, or if you're dumb, you get exploited.

Simple as that.

In Australia, people who work in asian food court gets paid under the minimum wage but did any of them complain?
No. They could, but they don't. Because they are aware of their limitations.

They can't speak english well enough to work in a proper australian owned business, and even if they could, they get cold shoulders from the locals.

This is the reality of the situation.
And they CHOSE to work with less pay.

As for lying, people do it everyday.

Some lie can be benefitial.

Only the naive could delude themselves into thinking lying is all bad.

Modifié par killnoob, 12 mars 2012 - 04:24 .

[Squallypo]

killnoob wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

this is what we know as Consumer Exploitation:
when a producer is doing selfish deeds for his/her own benifit and the decision is a purpose giving more than mental happiness for only the producer and hAVING ADVERSE EFFECTS ON CONSUMER WHO MAY BE ILLETERATE OR UNAWARE ETC

Get aware then.

Don't be naive.

This is a world of dog eats dog, if you're stupid, or if you're dumb, you get exploited.

Simple as that.

In Australia, people who work in asian food court gets paid under the minimum wage but did any of them complain?
No. They could, but they don't. Because they are aware of their limitations.

They can't speak english well enough to work in a proper australian owned business, and even if they could, they get cold shoulders from the locals.

This is the reality of the situation.

im not talking for myself cause im not the one allowing this exploits. but as you are AWARE of this situation the majority of the ppl around here allows them to be exploited.

[Mizanurification]

killnoob wrote...

Lying is a sin. Yes. 

Enough said.

If that's what you believe,

then I won't waste my breath arguing with you.

I dont have time to "argue" with an ignorant guy on the forum. 

And there is something called Consumer Rights. 

Modifié par Mizanurification, 12 mars 2012 - 04:25 .

[killnoob]

Mizanurification wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Lying is a sin. Yes. 

Enough said.

If that's what you believe,

then I won't waste my breath arguing with you.

I dont have time to "argue" with an ignorant guy on the forum. 

Is lying to give a terminal patient hope bad?

Is that a sin?

Again, if you actually believe lying is a sin, don't call me ignorant.

[Squallypo]

Mizanurification wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Lying is a sin. Yes. 

Enough said.

If that's what you believe,

then I won't waste my breath arguing with you.

I dont have time to "argue" with an ignorant guy on the forum. 

And there is something called Consumer Rights. 

something that EA is not "Aware" of.

[killnoob]

Squallypo wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

this is what we know as Consumer Exploitation:
when a producer is doing selfish deeds for his/her own benifit and the decision is a purpose giving more than mental happiness for only the producer and hAVING ADVERSE EFFECTS ON CONSUMER WHO MAY BE ILLETERATE OR UNAWARE ETC

Get aware then.

Don't be naive.

This is a world of dog eats dog, if you're stupid, or if you're dumb, you get exploited.

Simple as that.

In Australia, people who work in asian food court gets paid under the minimum wage but did any of them complain?
No. They could, but they don't. Because they are aware of their limitations.

They can't speak english well enough to work in a proper australian owned business, and even if they could, they get cold shoulders from the locals.

This is the reality of the situation.

im not talking for myself cause im not the one allowing this exploits. but as you are AWARE of this situation the majority of the ppl around here allows them to be exploited.

That's where you are wrong.

They ALLOWED themselve to be exploited.

I am an asian as well but do you see me work in a asian food store? No. I suck it up and deal with the cold shoulders i get from the locals so I can get paid more.

If they're dumb enough to be " content" with 7 dollars 1 hour when everyone else is earning 20 dollars, it's their own fault and it has nothing to do with me.

[killnoob]

Consumer's right:

You are entitled to what you own and what you paid for.

The character is on the disk.

So yea you can have it.

The mission is not on the disk.

No you can't have it if you don't pay for it.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that?

[Squallypo]

Modifié par Squallypo, 12 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[killnoob]

Squallypo wrote...

killnoob wrote...

The mission is not on the disk.

No you can't have it if you don't pay for it.

Now, if EA says you can't have the character, then screw them.
It's on the disk, I'll play it and you can put a gun to my head and I'll still use it to tank bullets for my Shepard.

But if EA wants you to pay for the mission, and if you actually wanna play that stupid mission, then suck it up and pay for it.

Case closed.

Modifié par killnoob, 12 mars 2012 - 04:33 .