92 réponses à ce sujet

[Myrmedus]

JrSlackin wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

No, it's different.

The Reapers were synthesizing organics purely to control them as husks, and Saren was under Sovereign's control. The new synthesized life is completely independent and free-willed.

Well I understand they're supposed to be dependent, but what I mean is physically. We've seen what happens when synthetics and organics combine, and honestly it's nightmarish.

On top of that, if synthetic is superior to organic, wouldn't it that mean the synthetic part of this new "species" end up trying to be fully synthetic?

I know I'm over thinking here, but ya know, endings kinda leave a lot to dwell on.

I'll answer your points in order:

1. I think the fusion that the Reapers do when conquering worlds is meant to be a 'crude' version purely for making mindless servants. The fusion we see in the ending is very elegant and has affected every type of life including leaves.

2. The impression I got was that both have their advantages, which is what Saren tells you in ME1 (or Sovereign) and from what we know in real life this is true because synthetic processors (computers) are able to process singularly at an incredibly fast rate but struggle with multi-tasking (they often don't even multi-task, they just go through one at a time) whereas organic processors (brains) can't process a singular task as well but are significantly better at multi-tasking. So, I'm guessing in order of which is stronger it's probably like this:

1. Hybrid
2. Synthetic
3. Organic

Modifié par Myrmedus, 12 mars 2012 - 12:31 .

[ashwind]

JrSlackin wrote...

I think that's the issue with the control one honestly.

It just brings up the question of how much control and reign does Shepard have over the Reapers and for how long.

I personally do not think that Shepard will be able to "control" the Reapers beyond sending them away and putting them back into sleep for maybe another cycle.

Once Shepard gives up humanity to gain control of the Reapers, Shepard is dead, he is no longer who he was because his perception would have changed entirely. He will not see things "organic" or "primitive" beings sees them anymore. He will not "feel" about things the same way ever. And perception and feelings is what defines Shepard, he sacrifices all that to issue one last command to the Reapers and that's all. After that, he will just be another Reaper

Regardless, the galaxy will now have time to rebuild with the knowledge that the Reaper threat is not truly over. With the Reapers lurking in the shadows, I am 99% sure that it will make the races friendlier towards each other and constantly work with each other to prepare themselves for the ultimate confrontation.

If the Krogans or anyone want something to fight, well Shepear is there to satisfy them . 

[AblativeMeatshield]

Harbinger of Hope wrote...

RxP4IN wrote...

Wouldn't synth hybrids eventually make machines and AI like all advanced civilizations would. You know, to make their lives easier.

That's probably the biggest plot-hole of this debacle of an ending. I, personally, think Control is the best ending. No genocide and no forcing crazy, glowing, circuit tattoos on everyone. Plus, I imagine my Shep taking the whole Reaper fleet and flying them into a black hole.

Heh...  I think I shall use this image to soften the pain this choice caused my libertarian nature. 

[Myrmedus]

RxP4IN wrote...

Wouldn't synth hybrids eventually make machines and AI like all advanced civilizations would. You know, to make their lives easier.

So what if they did? They wouldn't pose a threat to hybrids anyway.

[fish of doom]

ok, here i go once again:

organic = carbon-based

synthetic = artificial/created

synthetic ≠ necessarily inorganic (grunt is an example. he was not naturally born yet he is organic)

synthetics will kill organics = contextually: creations will destroy their creators

the solution to the above statement? to make all life-forms half organic and half inorganic (using an erroneous meaning of synthetic).

thus the synthesis ending misses the point (although in spirit it's probably the "happiest one", or would be it it actually did what it says it would do).

[Leafs43]

The synthesis is the ending that makes the least amount of sense.

"Jump into a beam and I'll make everything a cyborg!"

lol wut?

[Zyrious]

I see Synthesis as "giving up", as essentially doing exactly what the reapers want. It's their plan B if Plan A screws up, and i dont want any reaper plans going through. Fact of the matter is, the reapers were created out of fear, and now they are trying to use that fear to control you. The "Catalyst" desperately wants you NOT to pick the destroy option, all the more reason to pick it. You sacrifice the Geth, but new AI can be created, and their sacrifice is minor compared to Galactic scaled rape against everyones will.

The Destroy ending is about faith. Faith in who we are, in our ability to succeed. If you do Synthesis it means your shepard has lost faith in humanity and the galaxy at large. If you do control it means you are afraid of what might be. If you do destroy, you acknowledge anything is possible, but you have faith and hope, the very things that have driven you up until this point. Even a renegade would do destroy. Actually, a renegade would probably do destroy even faster. A paragon would just consider synthesis...then do destroy. IMO.

[JrSlackin]

I'm not much of a person to do this, but stumbled upon this and I think I'll just let this sum up everything.

[Paulinius]

Organic means organisms made of organic compounds.

So if a lifeform naturally evolved from non-organic compounds, say silicon-based life, then are they considered organic or synthetic?

Because they aren't organic but they weren't created synthetically.

How would the Starchild/Magicbeam differentiate?

God, I'm so confused.

[Kentuckan]

Zyrious wrote...

I see Synthesis as "giving up", as essentially doing exactly what the reapers want. It's their plan B if Plan A screws up, and i dont want any reaper plans going through. Fact of the matter is, the reapers were created out of fear, and now they are trying to use that fear to control you. The "Catalyst" desperately wants you NOT to pick the destroy option, all the more reason to pick it. You sacrifice the Geth, but new AI can be created, and their sacrifice is minor compared to Galactic scaled rape against everyones will.

The Destroy ending is about faith. Faith in who we are, in our ability to succeed. If you do Synthesis it means your shepard has lost faith in humanity and the galaxy at large. If you do control it means you are afraid of what might be. If you do destroy, you acknowledge anything is possible, but you have faith and hope, the very things that have driven you up until this point. Even a renegade would do destroy. Actually, a renegade would probably do destroy even faster. A paragon would just consider synthesis...then do destroy. IMO.

I see were you are coming from, but again I can not agree. Until undeniable evidence is given to the contrary I will continue to just see the choices as they are. It feels wrong to invalidate two possible player choices and turn the whole thing into some sort of mind game where if you pick anything but the destroy option then your Shepard is weak willed and succumbs to the reapers.

Surely you must understand why I or anyone sharing my particular viewpoint believe this. I mean when given three crappy options, I picked the option that allowed me to fufill my goal even if the cost was my own life. That goal was to end the reaper threat, and make sure no one else has to die, and if that decision turns out to be in reality some weak minded middle ground decision concocted by the reapers to make me some how give up then you must understand why I would be upset by that.

[fish of doom]

Paulinius wrote...

God, I'm so confused.

exactly

[JrSlackin]

Paulinius wrote...

Organic means organisms made of organic compounds.

So if a lifeform naturally evolved from non-organic compounds, say silicon-based life, then are they considered organic or synthetic?

Because they aren't organic but they weren't created synthetically.

How would the Starchild/Magicbeam differentiate?

God, I'm so confused.

Problem when we try to over analzye the endings.

[Zyrious]

Kentuckan wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

I see Synthesis as "giving up", as essentially doing exactly what the reapers want. It's their plan B if Plan A screws up, and i dont want any reaper plans going through. Fact of the matter is, the reapers were created out of fear, and now they are trying to use that fear to control you. The "Catalyst" desperately wants you NOT to pick the destroy option, all the more reason to pick it. You sacrifice the Geth, but new AI can be created, and their sacrifice is minor compared to Galactic scaled rape against everyones will.

The Destroy ending is about faith. Faith in who we are, in our ability to succeed. If you do Synthesis it means your shepard has lost faith in humanity and the galaxy at large. If you do control it means you are afraid of what might be. If you do destroy, you acknowledge anything is possible, but you have faith and hope, the very things that have driven you up until this point. Even a renegade would do destroy. Actually, a renegade would probably do destroy even faster. A paragon would just consider synthesis...then do destroy. IMO.

I see were you are coming from, but again I can not agree. Until undeniable evidence is given to the contrary I will continue to just see the choices as they are. It feels wrong to invalidate two possible player choices and turn the whole thing into some sort of mind game where if you pick anything but the destroy option then your Shepard is weak willed and succumbs to the reapers.

Surely you must understand why I or anyone sharing my particular viewpoint believe this. I mean when given three crappy options, I picked the option that allowed me to fufill my goal even if the cost was my own life. That goal was to end the reaper threat, and make sure no one else has to die, and if that decision turns out to be in reality some weak minded middle ground decision concocted by the reapers to make me some how give up then you must understand why I would be upset by that.

You can't necessarily say there is no "death" in synthesis. You are destroying the very diversity of the universe, and the very essence of who everyone is, and you are making the ultimate proclamation of lack of faith in the galaxy. You are sacrificing the very nature of being for everyone, including the geth. Some may be happy, and it may in part be due to having your brain literally infused at the atomic level with synthetic parts. It destroys what we are.

If my shepard had so little faith in humanity, he probably wouldn't have complained about humanity ascending as a reaper.

Modifié par Zyrious, 12 mars 2012 - 12:47 .

[Paulinius]

fish of doom wrote...

Paulinius wrote...

God, I'm so confused.

exactly

Maybe that's the next evolution of literature and story-telling.

Create a story, get people interested and attached, then confuse them with an unconclusive ending which facilitates the need of a sequel in order to properly end the story.

[fish of doom]

JrSlackin wrote...

Problem when the writers don't even know the definitions for the words they're using.

fixed

[Imortalfalcon]

I essentially came to the conclusion: Shepard Is Space Jesus.

I was confused, delusional even, so that's what I got out of it. I pretend I chose the best ending out of them all and forget about it.

But out of the three choice endings, I stil prefer the Power Button.

[fish of doom]

Luc0s wrote...

For example: Would a sentient computer made out of organic compounds in a labratory be classified as organic or synthetic? The answer is: both.

that's the thing, they're two totally different terms, much less mutually exclusive. as i mentioned, grunt is a synthetic organic, for example.

[Kentuckan]

Zyrious wrote...

Kentuckan wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

I see Synthesis as "giving up", as essentially doing exactly what the reapers want. It's their plan B if Plan A screws up, and i dont want any reaper plans going through. Fact of the matter is, the reapers were created out of fear, and now they are trying to use that fear to control you. The "Catalyst" desperately wants you NOT to pick the destroy option, all the more reason to pick it. You sacrifice the Geth, but new AI can be created, and their sacrifice is minor compared to Galactic scaled rape against everyones will.

The Destroy ending is about faith. Faith in who we are, in our ability to succeed. If you do Synthesis it means your shepard has lost faith in humanity and the galaxy at large. If you do control it means you are afraid of what might be. If you do destroy, you acknowledge anything is possible, but you have faith and hope, the very things that have driven you up until this point. Even a renegade would do destroy. Actually, a renegade would probably do destroy even faster. A paragon would just consider synthesis...then do destroy. IMO.

I see were you are coming from, but again I can not agree. Until undeniable evidence is given to the contrary I will continue to just see the choices as they are. It feels wrong to invalidate two possible player choices and turn the whole thing into some sort of mind game where if you pick anything but the destroy option then your Shepard is weak willed and succumbs to the reapers.

Surely you must understand why I or anyone sharing my particular viewpoint believe this. I mean when given three crappy options, I picked the option that allowed me to fufill my goal even if the cost was my own life. That goal was to end the reaper threat, and make sure no one else has to die, and if that decision turns out to be in reality some weak minded middle ground decision concocted by the reapers to make me some how give up then you must understand why I would be upset by that.

You can't necessarily say there is no "death" in synthesis. You are destroying the very diversity of the universe, and the very essence of who everyone is, and you are making the ultimate proclamation of lack of faith in the galaxy. You are sacrificing the very nature of being for everyone, including the geth. Some may be happy, and it may in part be due to having your brain literally infused at the atomic level with synthetic parts. It destroys what we are.

If my shepard had so little faith in humanity, he probably wouldn't have complained about humanity ascending as a reaper.

Until we get any form of epilogue we can not be certain what happens to those who under go synthesis, the rest of your post is merely opinion. I do not care to discuss the ethics of forcing this decision on all life in the milkyway, but Shep being the zombie-VI-cyborg that he is, still considered himself to be human.

[Harbinger of Hope]

Imortalfalcon wrote...
But out of the three choice endings, I stil prefer the Power Button.

Best ending ever.

Achievement Unlocked!: Thinking outside the Box

[Zyrious]

Kentuckan wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

Kentuckan wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

I see Synthesis as "giving up", as essentially doing exactly what the reapers want. It's their plan B if Plan A screws up, and i dont want any reaper plans going through. Fact of the matter is, the reapers were created out of fear, and now they are trying to use that fear to control you. The "Catalyst" desperately wants you NOT to pick the destroy option, all the more reason to pick it. You sacrifice the Geth, but new AI can be created, and their sacrifice is minor compared to Galactic scaled rape against everyones will.

The Destroy ending is about faith. Faith in who we are, in our ability to succeed. If you do Synthesis it means your shepard has lost faith in humanity and the galaxy at large. If you do control it means you are afraid of what might be. If you do destroy, you acknowledge anything is possible, but you have faith and hope, the very things that have driven you up until this point. Even a renegade would do destroy. Actually, a renegade would probably do destroy even faster. A paragon would just consider synthesis...then do destroy. IMO.

I see were you are coming from, but again I can not agree. Until undeniable evidence is given to the contrary I will continue to just see the choices as they are. It feels wrong to invalidate two possible player choices and turn the whole thing into some sort of mind game where if you pick anything but the destroy option then your Shepard is weak willed and succumbs to the reapers.

Surely you must understand why I or anyone sharing my particular viewpoint believe this. I mean when given three crappy options, I picked the option that allowed me to fufill my goal even if the cost was my own life. That goal was to end the reaper threat, and make sure no one else has to die, and if that decision turns out to be in reality some weak minded middle ground decision concocted by the reapers to make me some how give up then you must understand why I would be upset by that.

You can't necessarily say there is no "death" in synthesis. You are destroying the very diversity of the universe, and the very essence of who everyone is, and you are making the ultimate proclamation of lack of faith in the galaxy. You are sacrificing the very nature of being for everyone, including the geth. Some may be happy, and it may in part be due to having your brain literally infused at the atomic level with synthetic parts. It destroys what we are.

If my shepard had so little faith in humanity, he probably wouldn't have complained about humanity ascending as a reaper.

Until we get any form of epilogue we can not be certain what happens to those who under go synthesis, the rest of your post is merely opinion. I do not care to discuss the ethics of forcing this decision on all life in the milkyway, but Shep being the zombie-VI-cyborg that he is, still considered himself to be human.

Forcing it on all life in the galaxy is a pretty big thing to ignore. Changing the very nature of all life in the galaxy could almost be considered a form of genocide, you are destroying cultures, ways of life. Shepard is most definitely not in the same situation, remember cerberus was desperate that he be "as he was" and the cybernetics was kept to a minimu, and his brain completely untouched (it was preserved thanks to the helmet). They used advanced medicine, and cybernetic additions which were still seperate from the body. Mainly clamps and reinforcements to the bone structure (we see the whole process in the beginning of ME 2). By and large Shepard is still very much human with some augmentation.

Synthesis changes the very DNA of all life on a very fundamental level. This is spelled out by Reaper-god-child. It completely enfuses all organic life with the synthetic to the point that tech singularity is no longer a threat. That is enough to know its major and a huge change even without an epilogue.

Modifié par Zyrious, 12 mars 2012 - 01:01 .

[Paulinius]

Luc0s wrote...

Paulinius wrote...

Organic means organisms made of organic compounds.

So if a lifeform naturally evolved from non-organic compounds, say silicon-based life, then are they considered organic or synthetic?

Because they aren't organic but they weren't created synthetically.

How would the Starchild/Magicbeam differentiate?

God, I'm so confused.

The distinction between "organic" and "inorganic" carbon compounds, while "useful in organizing the vast subject of chemistry... is somewhat arbitrary".


So life can be synthetic but still be made out of organic compounds. For example: Would a sentient computer made out of organic compounds in a labratory be classified as organic or synthetic? The answer is: both.

Good point; thank you for the information.

So according to Catalyst, are the Reapers synthetic or a hybrid? I assume synthetic since they were artifically created, but they do require organics to exist and reproduce.

[GhostlyMaiden]

Zyrious wrote...

You can't necessarily say there is no "death" in synthesis. You are destroying the very diversity of the universe, and the very essence of who everyone is, and you are making the ultimate proclamation of lack of faith in the galaxy. You are sacrificing the very nature of being for everyone, including the geth. Some may be happy, and it may in part be due to having your brain literally infused at the atomic level with synthetic parts. It destroys what we are.

If my shepard had so little faith in humanity, he probably wouldn't have complained about humanity ascending as a reaper.

I get what you're saying, but do you actually have to be "human" to have humanity? I see the body as something no different than a husk or a shell. The geth and EDI don't have a single drop of blood, no skin, no organs, yet they still have self-awareness. They can feel fear, desire, and anger. Just look at Legion's reaction if Shepard refuses to let him upload the reaper code. He is clearly hurt by Shepard's willingness to let him and his people die.

An individual classifies themselves based on perceptions of themselves and perceptions from others. I am a woman. I am a man. I am weak. I am strong. I am gay. I am straight. I am beautiful. I am ugly. It is in the mind, the soul, the will.

I do not believe I have sacrificed the galaxy's humanity by simply changing their bodies. The godchild only says that I would create a new type of DNA and the ending does not give enough information to truly know how extensive the synthetic/organic make-up would be. In this, I can have hope. 

[Zyrious]

GhostlyMaiden wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

You can't necessarily say there is no "death" in synthesis. You are destroying the very diversity of the universe, and the very essence of who everyone is, and you are making the ultimate proclamation of lack of faith in the galaxy. You are sacrificing the very nature of being for everyone, including the geth. Some may be happy, and it may in part be due to having your brain literally infused at the atomic level with synthetic parts. It destroys what we are.

If my shepard had so little faith in humanity, he probably wouldn't have complained about humanity ascending as a reaper.

I get what you're saying, but do you actually have to be "human" to have humanity? I see the body as something no different than a husk or a shell. The geth and EDI don't have a single drop of blood, no skin, no organs, yet they still have self-awareness. They can feel fear, desire, and anger. Just look at Legion's reaction if Shepard refuses to let him upload the reaper code. He is clearly hurt by Shepard's willingness to let him and his people die.

An individual classifies themselves based on perceptions of themselves and perceptions from others. I am a woman. I am a man. I am weak. I am strong. I am gay. I am straight. I am beautiful. I am ugly. It is in the mind, the soul, the will.

I do not believe I have sacrificed the galaxy's humanity by simply changing their bodies. The godchild only says that I would create a new type of DNA and the ending does not give enough information to truly know how extensive the synthetic/organic make-up would be. In this, I can have hope. 

Having emotion and being human are 2 different things. Legion is sentient, but he and the geth are unique, with their own culture, goals, morals, and way of life. Synthesis combines and homogenizes things in such a way that it gaurentee's peace and a lack of threat from technological singularity. It is major.

You destroy trillions ways of life, culture, uniqueness, sense of being, and you force it on all of them, and it does change them. Thats why the reapers stop, because the very essence of life is changed, and no longer a "threat". In this sense, how are you better than the reapers? People are still "Alive" when merged into a reaper, they are each a nation of their species afterall. But their sense of being, way of thinking is completely changed, as shepard remarks when he first talks to reaper-god-child.

Modifié par Zyrious, 12 mars 2012 - 01:05 .