21 réponses à ce sujet

[Shaughn78]

After quite a while of leaving this project on the back burner I have finally gone back to it.

I am hoping that soon there will be real playable Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial characters. We have had both as companions; in MotB we had a half-celestial and in Risen Hero there was Jezebell the half-fiend companion. With these two races it takes more than just making them character races. Should a defaut half-celestial be turned to playable ,a level 1 character will have insane amounts of powers, like resurrection and summon planetar. I have seperated out all their special abilites and have them applied as they levelup. In Risen Hero I modified the levelup gui to apply racial feats on levelup for the half-fiend, I have now expanded that to half-celestials. Using Pain's CLS I have found most of the needed spell scripts to create the required feats.

With a bit more work I should have this all functioning and ready to go. Right now one thing that I need is a halo like effect for the half-celestial. I want to have these sub-races look different from the tiefling & assimar and I am using visual effects. The half-fiend has flaming hair like the fire genasi and the tiefling's horns. Since I am not adding wings I would like to have a halo or some type of head sparkles for the half-celestial.


Poject Components:

Levelup:
gui.....................................completed
script..................................completed

dialog.tlk.............................completed

2das:
-Appearance..........................completed
-RacialSubTypes....................completed
-race_feat_halfcelestial...........completed
-race_feat_halffiend................completed
-vfx_persistent.......................completed
-feat......................................completed
-spells...................................completed

Feat Progression as currently planned:
Half-Fiend
-level 1:  Darkness...............................default scrip
-Level 3:  Desecrate.............................completed
-Level 5: Unholy blight..........................Completed
-Level 7: Poison 3/day..........................default script
-Level 9: Contagion...............................default script
-Level 11: Blasphemy............................completed
-Level 13: Unholy Aura &........................default script
-Level 13: Unhallow...............................cut from project
-Level 15: Horrid Wilting.........................default script
-Level 17: Summon Hezrou....................completed
-Level 19: Destruction............................default script

Half-Celestial
Level 1: Protection from Evil 3/day &.........default script
Level 1: Bless.........................................default script
Level 3: Aid &..........................................default script
Level 3: Detect Evil...................................completed
Level 5: Cure Serious Wounds and.............default Script
Level 5: Neutralize Poison..........................default script
Level 7: Holy Smite & ..............................Completed
Level 9: Remove Disease...........................Default Script
Level 9: Dispel Evil......................................cut from project
Level 11: Holy Word...................................completed
Level 13: Holy Aura &.................................Default Script
Level 13: Hallow.........................................Cut from project
Level 15: Mass Charm Monster...................Default Script
Level 17: Summon Planetar........................Default Script
Level 19: Resurection.................................Default Script

VFX:
Halo

Modifié par Shaughn78, 14 mars 2012 - 04:29 .

[M. Rieder]

What sort of attribute bonuses do you forsee? Are there any innate resistances?

[Shaughn78]

I am using the d20

Half-Celestial:

-Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +4

-Darkvision
-Smite Evil
-Natural Armor +1
-Immunity to Disease
-Resistance Acid, Electricity, Cold 10/-
-Resist Poison, +4 saves vs poison
-Damage Resistance 5/magic
-Spell Like abilities granted on odd levels
-ECL -4

Half-Fiend

Str +4, Con +2, Dex +4, Int +4, Cha +2

-Darkvision
-Smite Good
-Natural Armor +1
-Immunity to Poison
-Resistance Acid, Electricity, Cold 10/-
-Resist Fire 5/-
-Damage Resistance 5/magic
-Spell Like abilities granted on odd levels
-ECL -4

Most of the resistance feats were created with the MotB companion. I still need to check if they are hardcoded or if they were applied by a skin (which will make this a bit more work). The half-fiend should have fire 10/- but right now I am selecting one of the resistance feats already created. If the other feats aren't hardcoded I will correct if from the 5/- to 10/-.

Right now all the racial-spell feats are being applied correctly and the spell script seem to be doing what they're suppose to.

Modifié par Shaughn78, 12 mars 2012 - 02:51 .

[Shaughn78]

600x300https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Psmmwj0GR6E/T11BLuLu_cI/AAAAAAAAAy0/t3ZmBtiWde8/s800/NWN2_SS_031012_210134.jpg[/img]


600x300https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-31I_dDBeqWE/T11BLbfXe4I/AAAAAAAAAyw/WxIcDHfJQYs/s800/NWN2_SS_031112_140737.jpg[/img]

[nicethugbert]

The power you get from your class is virtually always worth more and costs less than the power you get from an ecl race. The one case where I could see an exception is if the character is a fighter. But, even then, I could just fill my party with clerics, warlocks, etc., and those characters would be the better bargain over an ecl race.

It may be possible to find a niche where this is not so much the case. You could play on easy difficulty, for instance. In which case, you would have less incentive to make your party as powerful as possible thereby having some room to just make strictly fun choices. You could grant yourself extra XP to achieve some measure of comfort playing the ecl race. Give yourself loot, etc.

The common notions of difficult in D&D games are broken.

[M. Rieder]

Agreed. I see ECL races as a roleplay more than power-play option, especially for spellcasters where progression is king.

[kevL]

ntb wrote...

The common notions of difficult in D&D games are broken.

agreed. so many playstyles, areas of interest ...

personally i removed ECL from my system after the stock character Stangal Lightbender tagged along on my SoZ runthrough. He ended up just standing in the back, as by far the weakest member of the party, otherwise. Conversely, if I *choose* to play a glorified race I expect that character to shine! so, choosing a mere human does become a 'difficulty adjustment' for me,


that said, Shaughn, that you seem to be getting things going so well is def. a kudo - a challenging project w/ reach eh _~

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

As I see it, ECL races are supposed to be ancient, semi-immortal types. So they become unusually powerful, but it takes them a much longer time to do it. The problem with cRPGs, though, is that time (i.e. XP) is highly limited, and moreover, the plot is usually tightly coupled to character level. Maybe PW's allow for ECL characters to grow into their powers over many adventures, but single-player mods need to give them an 'extended childhood' so-to-speak to get them through their adjusted levels.

Maybe we builders have to think of more creative ways of handing out XP, so that ECL races become interesting choices.

[M. Rieder]

Note: I'm discussing ECL in general and not Shaugn's project, which I think is excellent.

Agreed, KevL. I expect that when I play a Drow, that character will be a bit of a juggernaut, not a liability that the -2 ECL makes it.

[painofdungeoneternal]

ECL is designed not with balance, but to make sure you still play a variety of races and not everyone plays Drizzt. It sucks for the Drizzt rangers, but there has to be some penalty to give humans a chance. On my pw it caps out max level which means a new player is better off choosing an ECL race while a veteran player will avoid them - to me this is good because it means it's easier to get started for the noob players.

ECL is actually supposed to be a requirement that those classes cannot join a PC class until they have that many levels of their monster class. It also is far more exaggerated than needed in PNP rules which don't make much sense, but having SR and certain feats can actually be far more important than the levels of a class chosen, it just depends on the specifics.

I'd suggest reducing the class benefits, and the ECL penalty based on how much you get as house rules for wherever you play. ( simple 2da edit for those in SP )

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 12 mars 2012 - 07:33 .

[nicethugbert]

Ah, I had forgotten that in PnP you, at least, get monster levels for the ecl. The problem for the DM is allowing the ecl PC into the campaign at the right level.

NWN2 makes ecl even worse by not giving the corresponding ab, hitdie, and saves. Yet, it would have been no more complicated to do than the rest of what OEI programmed into the game, just a racial feat that adds those bonuses.

[Shaughn78]

ECL is definately a balance act, the deep gnomes up until now have definately gotten their butts handed to them quite a bit.

These 2 characters will need a fair bit of play testing to try out their abilities and see how they balance in the OC and SOZ. WPM may be another campaign that they may work well in. I am planning to make them as close to the d20 to start with. Some of the spells may be changed or dropped during the scripting.

After it is done I figure if they are too powerful or have too great of e ECL they can be modified.  I know at first they will be fairly powerful with their damage reduction. Using the half-fiend in Risen Hero I know she held her own in battle with a level 4-8 party because of the DR. I image at level 1 & 2 they should do fine.

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

ECL is actually supposed to be a requirement that those classes cannot join a PC class until they have that many levels of their monster class. It also is far more exaggerated than needed in PNP rules which don't make much sense, but having SR and certain feats can actually be far more important than the levels of a class chosen, it just depends on the specifics.

This sounds like it may be a scope creep here, (I'm trying very hard to resist this). But wouldn't that be fancy if a ECL character had to gain 1-4 levels of humaniod or outsider before getting to choose a player class.

[Dann-J]

I'd love to see some fey'ri and durzagons! The 'half' in 'half-fiend' doesn't always have to be human.

D'hin'nis would also be awesome.

[painofdungeoneternal]

Think some of them, fey'ri are already in races of faerun.

[Shaughn78]

Once this is completed anyone can create more subraces where the half is some other mortal form instead of human. The subrace 2da would need to be merged. Script wise 1 line would need to be altered to include the new the subrace into the check before applying half-celestial/fiend abilities.

[kevL]

Shaughn78 wrote...

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

ECL is actually supposed to be a requirement that those classes cannot join a PC class until they have that many levels of their monster class. It also is far more exaggerated than needed in PNP rules which don't make much sense, but having SR and certain feats can actually be far more important than the levels of a class chosen, it just depends on the specifics.

This sounds like it may be a scope creep here, (I'm trying very hard to resist this). But wouldn't that be fancy if a ECL character had to gain 1-4 levels of humaniod or outsider before getting to choose a player class.

i think that's Great Ideas .. as far as ideas go yep,

[M. Rieder]

Shaughn78 wrote...


This sounds like it may be a scope creep here, (I'm trying very hard to resist this). But wouldn't that be fancy if a ECL character had to gain 1-4 levels of humaniod or outsider before getting to choose a player class.

I don't think it is scope creep at all.  I think it sounds like a great improvement to the ECL system that will make it a valid choice for some of the more exotic races.  This is a fantastic idea!

[kevL]

34 brought up the notion of a Paragon class, and even fleshed out its stats:

Racial Paragon class


tho not sure he pursued it ..... (strikes me as ideal prereq. to -ECL advances)

[painofdungeoneternal]

010010 has Paragon classes as a feature of Project M, and basically already working.

He used his enhanced level up system to make that work.

[Shaughn78]

I have updated the first post to track a bit of this project. Closing in on the test.

I have looked a bit at the leveling issues and don't know. While this is adding some new feature I would like to keep this project as an override option.

I have looked a little at the classes and at the pres 2da where retirements go. I was exciting for a moment when I saw there was a script variable that could be used to accomplish this. However, on a bit of research it appears not to function in NWN2.

I am no gui guy. But if someone wants to look at the levelup class gui xmls and figure out how to call that script and turn on and off the classes I can do the rest.

The paragon classes look neat, but they seem a bit different then removing the ELC and having those characters take monster levels before they can reach level 2 of their chosen class.

[nicethugbert]

Why not keep the ECL and give them a feat at level 1 that gives them the equivalent of monster hd?

[Shaughn78]

The playable races are set for playtesting. I have run through the abilities and everything seems to be working in a quick test module.

If anyone is interested I am looking for feedback on the abilities and the balance of these characters. For a control I would prefer that the testing be in 1 of the 3 official games.

http://dl.dropbox.co...endCelestial.7z

Any feedback is welcome.
Shaughn

**Edit**

Instalation Instructions:
This is an override project.
Place the main folder into the override.
In that folder there is a dialog.tlk: backup your old file if you have on  then place file into the NeverwinterNights2 folder

Modifié par Shaughn78, 17 mars 2012 - 07:10 .