145 réponses à ce sujet

[Abremms]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

Basically, there's no Mass Effect anymore. It was a space opera, but now FTL travel is all but impossible in anything but the long term. The series can't move forward in time unless they massively retcon the endings or set it in a future/past so distant as to be unrecognizable.

I don't really understand this argument. Necessity is the mother of all invention, and the reason FTL hasn't really developed for much beyond intersystem travel is because the relays are there. You underestimate the forward march of technology if you think the races will just say "Oh, relay's are gone? we better move back into caves then." The fact that the Relay's exsisted at all is proof enough that it is possible. The fact that the Protheans built one, even a small scale, one way, relay means that at the current tech level of the Human cycle, It is possible to build a relay. It won't be easy, and there is going to be a period of recovery and rebuilding, but no matter which ending you picked, there are enough Relay parts and Reaper bits floating in space to keep scientists from all races busy for the foreseeable future. Add to that, those Quantum Entanglement Communicators are still around, So even without sufficient FTL travel, they will have realtime communication to any number of worlds so they can coordinate research and construction.

You may not like the ending, but there is nothing about the that specificaly prohibits another Mass Effect game. It won't feature Shepard, It'll be at least 100 years later.

The galaxy is beaten, not broken. 

[TudorWolf]

wirelesstkd wrote...

TudorWolf wrote...

While I find the whole "OMG the endings are the worst thing EVAR" shenanigans rather annoying, what you're saying is more or less how I feel too.

Why the hell did Bioware deign to deny us an epilogue?! And that thing with the Normandy just takes the cake :/


I can't see Bioware continuing the series after this, it's require either setting a canon or a retcon. Plus the obvious fan backlash

As much as I liked the endings, I think they would have been better with some kind of epilogue. But I think it's the difference of "leaving it to our imagination" versus "spelling it out." I respect Bioware's decision. It was ballsy, for sure

Oh, totally, that's what coming of it now... The problem really is, imagining the outcome can go either way. I mean, not only are there 3 pretty varying possibilities, but galactic civilization has basically been destroyed and the relays are gone on top of it.

Life will go on, and there is a victory in that, but all the characters we loved so much are left hanging on the Normandy on some random planet without a real resolution, etc.

[Warhawk7137]

Thoragoros wrote...

Given that ME 3's  ending essentially destroyed the 'Mass Effect' that made space travel possible, and wiped out all synthetic life, thereby plunging the galaxy into a veritable dark age, I'd say they basically destroyed what made the Mass Effect Universe the Mass Effect Universe.

It's like taking the Force out of Star Wars or the Imperium out of 40k, it just doesn't work because it wouldn't be any fun.

Nothing about the ending suggested space travel or conventional FTL isn't possible.  Mass Effect tech isn't reaper tech or synthetic life.  In theory they could simply build new mass relays, although the amount of time it would take to be able to do so is a matter of some debate (granted, the Protheans did it, and comm buoys are miniature mass relays).

[Hebrew42hammer]

Thoragoros wrote...

Maj.Pain007 wrote...

Lets say BW is firm and says the endings stick and there will not be DLC of another ending. Given how the endings were how would the series go forward with more games? It seems kinda destructive to write those endings and having a universe so rich with information be undone to the point where you might as well not even bother with this franchise and make a new IP.


Lets say the true ending is Shepard taking control of the Reapers. The Citadel is destroyed along with the Mass Relays. How does any new game go forward with this? I just don't see how destroying the Mass Relays solves anything for this franchise. These endings leave nothing left in this franchise to do anything with. Did anything come out of the discovery of the Raloi?


Your thoughts on where the franchise is going if the endings stick?

Given that ME 3's  ending essentially destroyed the 'Mass Effect' that made space travel possible, and wiped out all synthetic life, thereby plunging the galaxy into a veritable dark age, I'd say they basically destroyed what made the Mass Effect Universe the Mass Effect Universe.

It's like taking the Force out of Star Wars or the Imperium out of 40k, it just doesn't work because it wouldn't be any fun.

I disagree. I am pretty sure the writers asumed not to destroy the systems with relays just transportation. ALL systems before space travel could operate just fine independently. Just stop space travel.... you probably lose colonies, but homeworlds shoud be all right. To me though earth is done. Think of the amount of people no on earth with no relays.... and species tensions were high even when united. Earth to me sounds like it woud be a war zone.

People would rebuild, and have shep as a becon of hope. And interglatic communication wasnt destroyed.... even if that equipment was gone, it could be rebuilt. The races could used knowledge spread that way to help.

Now, I dont agree with the endings, but I also dont think they doomed everyone... atleast in my take on it

[Travixus]

This may just be the debbie downer in me talking, but I can't imagine them doing anything about the endings of the game. I'm sure after the hype of the game release dies down they'll post some stupid response about how interesting it is to see the fans interpretations and how WONDERFUL the ending is to have sparked such discourse.

It could have been so good.

[Abremms]

Shinzarn wrote...

Well, theoretically the game could move on, but why? No true Mass Effect fan will accept playing as anyone but Shepard, with Shepard's crew. No true fan will accept a new character in Shep's place. Mass Effect is Shepard's story. It is not the story of a galaxy, of the Relays, or the Reapers. Mass Effect is the story of Commander Shepard, Soldier, Spectre, Leader, and Friend. To attempt Mass Effect without Shepard is unthinkable.

With an ending change, it is possible, but even then, I would argue that it shouldn't happen. Shepard has served, above and beyond what could ever be expected. The Reapers are done, in form or another, and it is time for Shepard to rest. If they go on with Mass Effect, I say with a heavy heart that I cannot in good conscience, join them. I love Mass Effect with all my heart and soul, but after the end atrocity and the visceral betrayal of my faith, I am done. Even with a new ending where everything I want happens, I can't continue Mass Effect into a new game. Shepard has done enough. I will play any and all DLC for ME3, and pray and hope for a new ending, but with or without one, Mass Effect is over. And without a new ending, my Bioware experience is over as well.

As a "true mass effect fan", I emphaticaly dissagree. Shepard's story is Shepard's story. Its a good one, the ending needs work, but the rest of it is brilliant. But even without Shepard, the Mass Effect universe is well developed, fascinating, and wonderous science fiction setting. As I'v said elsewhere in this thread, there is nothing about the ending of ME3 (unless you didn;t have enough ware assets and the reapers won) that precludes more games in the ME universe, and I would absolutely welcome that.

[Wattoes]

My question would be who cares?

After this kick in the teeth its hard to care about anything in the universe anymore.

[Fuzrum77]

 I don't really care how it moves forward. I won't be there.

[Hebrew42hammer]

Abremms wrote...

Shinzarn wrote...

Well, theoretically the game could move on, but why? No true Mass Effect fan will accept playing as anyone but Shepard, with Shepard's crew. No true fan will accept a new character in Shep's place. Mass Effect is Shepard's story. It is not the story of a galaxy, of the Relays, or the Reapers. Mass Effect is the story of Commander Shepard, Soldier, Spectre, Leader, and Friend. To attempt Mass Effect without Shepard is unthinkable.

With an ending change, it is possible, but even then, I would argue that it shouldn't happen. Shepard has served, above and beyond what could ever be expected. The Reapers are done, in form or another, and it is time for Shepard to rest. If they go on with Mass Effect, I say with a heavy heart that I cannot in good conscience, join them. I love Mass Effect with all my heart and soul, but after the end atrocity and the visceral betrayal of my faith, I am done. Even with a new ending where everything I want happens, I can't continue Mass Effect into a new game. Shepard has done enough. I will play any and all DLC for ME3, and pray and hope for a new ending, but with or without one, Mass Effect is over. And without a new ending, my Bioware experience is over as well.

As a "true mass effect fan", I emphaticaly dissagree. Shepard's story is Shepard's story. Its a good one, the ending needs work, but the rest of it is brilliant. But even without Shepard, the Mass Effect universe is well developed, fascinating, and wonderous science fiction setting. As I'v said elsewhere in this thread, there is nothing about the ending of ME3 (unless you didn;t have enough ware assets and the reapers won) that precludes more games in the ME universe, and I would absolutely welcome that.

jumping off this thought. The only thing that makes sense if that laser beam sequence wasnt a dream.... that marine in N7 armor could be the next characters story we could play out. I still wish we could brach the gap in what the N7 guy has to do with the game if shep wasnt weaing any of his armor before the end.... that gives me hope it was all a dream

Modifié par Hebrew42hammer, 12 mars 2012 - 03:00 .

[Warhawk7137]

Abremms wrote...

As a "true mass effect fan", I emphaticaly dissagree. Shepard's story is Shepard's story. Its a good one, the ending needs work, but the rest of it is brilliant. But even without Shepard, the Mass Effect universe is well developed, fascinating, and wonderous science fiction setting. As I'v said elsewhere in this thread, there is nothing about the ending of ME3 (unless you didn;t have enough ware assets and the reapers won) that precludes more games in the ME universe, and I would absolutely welcome that.

Exactly.  It's a fantastic universe, with fascinating societies.

[Jarys]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

gmboy902 wrote...

No Mass Relays, no Citadel, no Mass Effect.

Right on the first two, wrong on the third. E-zero still exists.

I think his point was without the relays and the citadel, mass effect as a game is no longer really mass effect. Which is pretty much true.

[NicoNicastro]

I never thought I would have to say I don't want to buy DLC for Mass Effect 3, I expected this to be the game I never wanted to end and fully planned on continuing it any way possible, whether it be DLC or whatever. But now with the end as it is I feel like whats the point when we know everything we fought is for nothing in the end. Honestly I wouldn't have minded the endings if it had more closure and explained what happened to the universe, oh yeah, and Shepard surviving.

[Sywen]

Fuzrum77 wrote...

 I don't really care how it moves forward. I won't be there.

[Eksessive]

CajunRexShepard wrote...

I agree with most of the above but feel it necessary to point out KOTOR 2 was not a bioware game, and it showed.

Even if they make a new Mass Relay, or fix the old one in the Sol System, it still won't function. They work like phones, you need another one working at the destination. They would still have to travel the slow way to whatever destination they want for the new/fixed Relay.

To get the galaxy back to where it was before the atrocious endings of ME3, would take literally 10s of thousands of years. Traveling at the speed of light, a straight shot across our galaxy would take 100,000 years. Even if we were ridiculously generous with the ME FTL speeds, and say there were 10 times the speed of light, a straight shot across the galaxy would take 10,000 years.

In other words, Bioware nuked their entire game universe with this crap. This, is what pisses me off so much about these endings. They destroy the future that my Shepard fought so hard for.

[Shinzarn]

Abremms wrote...
As a "true mass effect fan", I emphaticaly dissagree. Shepard's story is Shepard's story. Its a good one, the ending needs work, but the rest of it is brilliant. But even without Shepard, the Mass Effect universe is well developed, fascinating, and wonderous science fiction setting. As I'v said elsewhere in this thread, there is nothing about the ending of ME3 (unless you didn;t have enough ware assets and the reapers won) that precludes more games in the ME universe, and I would absolutely welcome that.

Perhaps "true Mass Effect fan" was poor phrasing. In my opinion, and possibly only my opinion, I think that Shepard is what makes the story. Yes, the series and the universe are amazing places, with stories being told everyday that would make great games. However, Mass Effect has always been the journey of Commander Shepard and how he/she evolves and confronts the problems of a Galaxy in trouble. I in no way disagree with you about the truly amazing work done to create the Mass Effect universe and its amazing place as a story telling medium. The Galaxy of these games is a wondrous place. I can't imagine playing in that universe as anyone but Shepard though, and that is why, for me, Mass Effect can't continue with these endings. 

That said, I do appreciate the grandeur and majesty of the Galaxy and the amazing place it holds in Science Fiction history. For me personally however, it is Shepard that makes the story. We will have to agree to disagree I think. Shepard needs a rest, and with him/her, Mass Effect.

[MinatheBrat]

Something I've been thinking about that would allow the Mass Effect universe to continue and be playable.

The Crucible is a prothean weapon.What if the catalyst for the cruicible was really showing Shepard a probability for the Reaper invasion. And by interacting with it, now Shepard knows what could be.
It said it itself, another way must be found.
So when Shep wakes up from the dream sequence we're taken all the way back to after Shep knocks Kaidan out of the way of the Prothean beacon on Eden Prime, but instead of waking and seeing fragments of "nightmares and nothing's really clear..." Shepard knows what's going to happen. Because he/she's just lived through a time probability of it.
And now she knows how she failed. And what's coming. And it's up to him/her to save the galaxy- again. And convince everyone what's going on so s/he can stop the Reapers before they invade and the galaxy is destroyed the way it was in ME3.

Anyway, that probably is not what BioWare is doing, which is too bad, since it would be something that I'd be into- and it would be fun to play and see how things were different and the same, etc. I'm sure they could get really clever with it. And the whole galaxy wouldn't be blown up- which would be nice 

[Hebrew42hammer]

Eksessive wrote...

CajunRexShepard wrote...

I agree with most of the above but feel it necessary to point out KOTOR 2 was not a bioware game, and it showed.

Even if they make a new Mass Relay, or fix the old one in the Sol System, it still won't function. They work like phones, you need another one working at the destination. They would still have to travel the slow way to whatever destination they want for the new/fixed Relay.

To get the galaxy back to where it was before the atrocious endings of ME3, would take literally 10s of thousands of years. Traveling at the speed of light, a straight shot across our galaxy would take 100,000 years. Even if we were ridiculously generous with the ME FTL speeds, and say there were 10 times the speed of light, a straight shot across the galaxy would take 10,000 years.

In other words, Bioware nuked their entire game universe with this crap. This, is what pisses me off so much about these endings. They destroy the future that my Shepard fought so hard for.

why woud they have to travel? Im sure they can easily say, some scientists and ships still remained on home worlds. They should still have galactic communication... one system builds a relay, then the other one builds one as well. And they could design them to work probably in a more functional way. This is of course.... if they studied them while they were working and can figure out how to build them.

So by no means did they nuke anything, unless they write, "we killed all mass", they can easily write the world any way they want.

so the time frame really doesnt hold, since if Bioware went this route, Im sure they would use an idea along my lines to easily unite the systems again.

[Turkeysock]

Blightrose, Symbiotics, please look on page 2, third post from the last.

[Abremms]

Eksessive wrote...

CajunRexShepard wrote...

I agree with most of the above but feel it necessary to point out KOTOR 2 was not a bioware game, and it showed.

Even if they make a new Mass Relay, or fix the old one in the Sol System, it still won't function. They work like phones, you need another one working at the destination. They would still have to travel the slow way to whatever destination they want for the new/fixed Relay.

To get the galaxy back to where it was before the atrocious endings of ME3, would take literally 10s of thousands of years. Traveling at the speed of light, a straight shot across our galaxy would take 100,000 years. Even if we were ridiculously generous with the ME FTL speeds, and say there were 10 times the speed of light, a straight shot across the galaxy would take 10,000 years.

In other words, Bioware nuked their entire game universe with this crap. This, is what pisses me off so much about these endings. They destroy the future that my Shepard fought so hard for.

But they still have quantum communicators. so While survivors in Sol repair/rebuild the relay, Turians and Krogan on Palaven, Asari on Tessia,  Various colonies and races that still have intact quantum communicators can all coordinate and help each other research and rebuild. 10s of thousands of years is pretty pessimistic. Beyond that, with all those dead reapers floating about, there is going to be a lot of research going on. and with FTL becoming a primary means of space transort, its going to become a priority tech. It will improve. If you can break the speed of light, then you can break it further. Technology won't stagnate, it will march inexoribly forward, meeting the needs of societies the galaxy over. Thats a central theme of Mass Effect, where there is a will, there is a way.

[Hebrew42hammer]

Abremms wrote...

Eksessive wrote...

CajunRexShepard wrote...

I agree with most of the above but feel it necessary to point out KOTOR 2 was not a bioware game, and it showed.

Even if they make a new Mass Relay, or fix the old one in the Sol System, it still won't function. They work like phones, you need another one working at the destination. They would still have to travel the slow way to whatever destination they want for the new/fixed Relay.

To get the galaxy back to where it was before the atrocious endings of ME3, would take literally 10s of thousands of years. Traveling at the speed of light, a straight shot across our galaxy would take 100,000 years. Even if we were ridiculously generous with the ME FTL speeds, and say there were 10 times the speed of light, a straight shot across the galaxy would take 10,000 years.

In other words, Bioware nuked their entire game universe with this crap. This, is what pisses me off so much about these endings. They destroy the future that my Shepard fought so hard for.

But they still have quantum communicators. so While survivors in Sol repair/rebuild the relay, Turians and Krogan on Palaven, Asari on Tessia,  Various colonies and races that still have intact quantum communicators can all coordinate and help each other research and rebuild. 10s of thousands of years is pretty pessimistic. Beyond that, with all those dead reapers floating about, there is going to be a lot of research going on. and with FTL becoming a primary means of space transort, its going to become a priority tech. It will improve. If you can break the speed of light, then you can break it further. Technology won't stagnate, it will march inexoribly forward, meeting the needs of societies the galaxy over. Thats a central theme of Mass Effect, where there is a will, there is a way.

and unlike our world, Bioware can just say,.. they created X technology, problem solved.

Kind of like in "Thank you for smoking" where they want to show peope smoking on the moon in zero-g but thats not possible... so they just say they can add a line saying they created that tech. Sloppy? maybe, but easily done.

Modifié par Hebrew42hammer, 12 mars 2012 - 03:20 .

[Abremms]

Hebrew42hammer wrote...

Abremms wrote...

Eksessive wrote...

CajunRexShepard wrote...

I agree with most of the above but feel it necessary to point out KOTOR 2 was not a bioware game, and it showed.

Even if they make a new Mass Relay, or fix the old one in the Sol System, it still won't function. They work like phones, you need another one working at the destination. They would still have to travel the slow way to whatever destination they want for the new/fixed Relay.

To get the galaxy back to where it was before the atrocious endings of ME3, would take literally 10s of thousands of years. Traveling at the speed of light, a straight shot across our galaxy would take 100,000 years. Even if we were ridiculously generous with the ME FTL speeds, and say there were 10 times the speed of light, a straight shot across the galaxy would take 10,000 years.

In other words, Bioware nuked their entire game universe with this crap. This, is what pisses me off so much about these endings. They destroy the future that my Shepard fought so hard for.

But they still have quantum communicators. so While survivors in Sol repair/rebuild the relay, Turians and Krogan on Palaven, Asari on Tessia,  Various colonies and races that still have intact quantum communicators can all coordinate and help each other research and rebuild. 10s of thousands of years is pretty pessimistic. Beyond that, with all those dead reapers floating about, there is going to be a lot of research going on. and with FTL becoming a primary means of space transort, its going to become a priority tech. It will improve. If you can break the speed of light, then you can break it further. Technology won't stagnate, it will march inexoribly forward, meeting the needs of societies the galaxy over. Thats a central theme of Mass Effect, where there is a will, there is a way.

and unlike our world, Bioware can just say,.. they created X technology, problem solved.

Kind of like in "Thank you for smoking" where they want to show peope smoking on the moon in zero-g but thats not possible... so they just say they can add a line saying they created that tech. Sloppy? maybe, but easily done.

Oh, for sure. that happens constantly in scifi. I just think its important to note that technology isn't static. the Races of Mass Effect got to where they are prematurely thanks to the Relays and protheans giving them a jumpstart, but all the citadel races are depicted as competent spacefaring civlizations at the time of the reaper war, so to think that they are just going to call it quits without the relays is unrealistic.

Maybe they will come up with something completely new. In Peter F Hamilton's Commonwealth Saga, the Human civilization is connected by wormholes and no one has built a space ship in a few hundered years. But when an external threat shows up, they build a drive that creats a continuous wormhole for the ship to travel through FTL, rather than a fixed wormhole requiring two established generators. What if scientists studying the  relay wrecks found out a way to adapt the relays for mobile use like that, so any individual ship with a Relay Drive could fling itself across the galaxy without the need of an actual physical relay on the other side.

If you remember, the Relays were built as they were specificaly to guide the growth of organic species. Not because it was the best that could be achieved.

[StarcloudSWG]

If the current endings stay as they are, I see Mass Effect moving forward in this way:

Without me.

[Apocsapel91]

gmboy902 wrote...

No Mass Relays, no Citadel, no Mass Effect. Even BioWare's master storytellers would be more likely to maul a polar bear to death with their big toe than salvage this plot without a little retconn.

Pretty much.  The "mass effect" is gone.

[GovernorTarkin]

Mass Effect 4:  Krogan Dating Sim:O

[Eksessive]

Hebrew42hammer wrote...

Eksessive wrote...

CajunRexShepard wrote...

I agree with most of the above but feel it necessary to point out KOTOR 2 was not a bioware game, and it showed.

Even if they make a new Mass Relay, or fix the old one in the Sol System, it still won't function. They work like phones, you need another one working at the destination. They would still have to travel the slow way to whatever destination they want for the new/fixed Relay.

To get the galaxy back to where it was before the atrocious endings of ME3, would take literally 10s of thousands of years. Traveling at the speed of light, a straight shot across our galaxy would take 100,000 years. Even if we were ridiculously generous with the ME FTL speeds, and say there were 10 times the speed of light, a straight shot across the galaxy would take 10,000 years.

In other words, Bioware nuked their entire game universe with this crap. This, is what pisses me off so much about these endings. They destroy the future that my Shepard fought so hard for.

why woud they have to travel? Im sure they can easily say, some scientists and ships still remained on home worlds. They should still have galactic communication... one system builds a relay, then the other one builds one as well. And they could design them to work probably in a more functional way. This is of course.... if they studied them while they were working and can figure out how to build them.

So by no means did they nuke anything, unless they write, "we killed all mass", they can easily write the world any way they want.

so the time frame really doesnt hold, since if Bioware went this route, Im sure they would use an idea along my lines to easily unite the systems again.

Intergalactic communication? Yeah, that was handled with the relays as well. Everything that had to bridge the staggeringly huge distances between stellar clusters was handled by the Relays. Go read your ME1 codex entries. The quantum entanglement communications that Anderson and Hacket used to talk to Shepard, that requires 2 quantum particles created together, and then seperated. So that isn't going to work either, unless you fly one of the pair off to who you want to talk to, and fly there the REALLY slow way.

Sorry, destroying the Relays kills this game universe. Anything that re-unites this galaxy anything short of a couple of millenia will just be more ridiculous space magic. Many people seem to be forgetting just how ludirously vast our galaxy is.