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Terrible weapons that need a buff


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#76
eschaeron

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Zyrusticae wrote...

So, I've been messing with the Hornet some.

It is ridiculous. It can do a LOT of damage... but the kick is so insanely powerful that there's literally no way you can land consecutive hits in quick succession. The kick, in fact, is higher than any other weapon I have ever used, including shotguns, assault rifles, and ESPECIALLY the heavy pistols (wtf?!). It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I can kind of appreciate the schtick here - it's supposed to be an obscenely powerful weapon that's difficult to control, but instead it ends up being a pointless waste of effort just because of how utterly impossible it is to land hits in the first place. It also makes no thematic sense whatsoever - seriously, it's an SMG! If you want something powerful that's difficult to control, why not an assault rifle or something? Complete and utter nonsense for any SMG to have more recoil than a freakin' heavy pistol, man. Complete and utter nonsense.


The trick is to use it unscoped, unaimed, mashing the fire button. I can successfully land 90% of shots with it, and its damage is insane. But if you're not used to compensating recoil, it's useless. My Day of Defeat days are finally paying off.

I have been testing biotic detonations compared to guns, and while I must admit that biotic detonations are unrivaled in sheer damage, I feel there are a few caveats:
-Enemies dodge. A lot. A whole fricking lot. It's not problematic with guns, at all, if you know what you're doing, but it's very frustating when trying to set up biotic detonations, as it 'wastes' a cooldown.
-It's somewhat pointless against most low level enemies, unless tightly grouped. You're much better off just gunning them down, it's way quicker.
-Infiltrators are still the Giantslayers, I feel. Biotic detonations do not kill Atlases, Phantoms, Brutes, Geth Primes or such quicker than cloaked Widow shots, that much I'm sure: a single Widow shot with Cloak+Drain and adequate ammo can one shot anything short of the bigger enemies on Gold. It takes at least two biotic detonations to kill a Phantom, and they are way more dangerous to set up. It takes 4 or 5 detonations to take down an Atlas, and 2 or 3 Widow shots. They are better against Banshees, though, because they do not dodge but are kinda are to shoot accurately.
-Finally, most classes that can set these are generally pretty squishy, and tend to have somewhat lower survivability.

But on groups of enemies, there is very little that can rival biotic detonations, except maybe tech-bursts if you know how to set them up (it requires good timing between two players)

#77
AresCrusader

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jzzabelle wrote...

M-76 REVENANT
This gun is TERRIBLE. Horrible spread, damage, and impairs your movement while shooting. The only class which can theoretically take advantage of this weapon is the Soldier (more specifically the Turian soldier). However, due to the extreme suckage of the accuracy and damage (even with accuracy mods and the Marksman bonus spec'd into accuracy) this gun is hard to control and has a terrible DPS.

Add that to the fact that the marksman bonus REQUIRES you to keep shooting to keep up DPS, meaning that you expose yourself to enemy fire at the same time. Just a terrible gun to complement a terrible class overall. Solution? Boost the accuracy or remove the movement impairment. Or just remove this gun. Its terrible.



See, I would disagree with you on this one. I use it as the only gun on my Quarian engineer, and it is brilliant. Enemies always target the turret, and I just keep up constant fire from cover (thanks to recoil & mag mods).  :)

#78
Kopikatsu

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Zyrusticae wrote...

So, I've been messing with the Hornet some.

It is ridiculous. It can do a LOT of damage... but the kick is so insanely powerful that there's literally no way you can land consecutive hits in quick succession. The kick, in fact, is higher than any other weapon I have ever used, including shotguns, assault rifles, and ESPECIALLY the heavy pistols (wtf?!). It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I can kind of appreciate the schtick here - it's supposed to be an obscenely powerful weapon that's difficult to control, but instead it ends up being a pointless waste of effort just because of how utterly impossible it is to land hits in the first place. It also makes no thematic sense whatsoever - seriously, it's an SMG! If you want something powerful that's difficult to control, why not an assault rifle or something? Complete and utter nonsense for any SMG to have more recoil than a freakin' heavy pistol, man. Complete and utter nonsense.


Eh. With the Turian stability bonus, the recoil is negligible. And then you throw on Marksman...

#79
Aynien

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eschaeron wrote...
I have been testing biotic detonations compared to guns, and while I must admit that biotic detonations are unrivaled in sheer damage, I feel there are a few caveats:
-Enemies dodge. A lot. A whole fricking lot. It's not problematic with guns, at all, if you know what you're doing, but it's very frustating when trying to set up biotic detonations, as it 'wastes' a cooldown.

You just need know how and when to use your powers, you don't aim on the first target you see, you look for the one that is laying in cover, because the AI is not smart enough to roll out of it. Also, there's AoE powers that can set up biotic explosions(now on refered as BE), such as Bubble Stasis, Shockwave, Double Pull(while not really an aoe, it helps taking 2 targets or making one roll in one, or even both powers) and Singularity, that can get the target, even if they dodge(aim upward, instead of aiming straight).

eschaeron wrote...
-It's somewhat pointless against most low level enemies, unless tightly grouped. You're much better off just gunning them down, it's way quicker.

Depends, On gold a BE will kill a normal foe faster than most AR, SMG and Heavy pistols. On silver tho, I completly agree.

eschaeron wrote...
-Infiltrators are still the Giantslayers, I feel. Biotic detonations do not kill Atlases, Phantoms, Brutes, Geth Primes or such quicker than cloaked Widow shots, that much I'm sure: a single Widow shot with Cloak+Drain and adequate ammo can one shot anything short of the bigger enemies on Gold. It takes at least two biotic detonations to kill a Phantom, and they are way more dangerous to set up. It takes 4 or 5 detonations to take down an Atlas, and 2 or 3 Widow shots. They are better against Banshees, though, because they do not dodge but are kinda are to shoot accurately.

While inf can 3/4 shots a Atlas on gold, they are making the rest of the team a target by cloaking, while a BE besides doing dmg, also staggers Atlases, primes and banshees and incapacitates phatoms.

eschaeron wrote...
-Finally, most classes that can set these are generally pretty squishy, and tend to have somewhat lower survivability.

Would a Sentinel be squishy as well? Also, The fact that you don't need to be exposed to do dmg is better than using most guns in the game. If you think you are so squishy, just hide behind the cover, use a power, wait for a cd and detonate with another. While the most of the other classes would need to be out on the open to dish the same amount of damage in more time. Plus, a infiltrator is more squishy than an adept, because everytime you use cloak, your shields doesn't regen and depending on where you uncloak and how much shield is left, it might be a certain death.

Modifié par Aynien, 13 mars 2012 - 01:03 .


#80
Drummernate

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The only terrible gun is the Locust.... 15 clips do not even take down the shields of an Atlas on silver.

I think it does like .5 damage per shot, because 31 headshots will only take away maybe 4 bars.

#81
Cipher_73

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Zyrusticae wrote...

So, I've been messing with the Hornet some.

It is ridiculous. It can do a LOT of damage... but the kick is so insanely powerful that there's literally no way you can land consecutive hits in quick succession. The kick, in fact, is higher than any other weapon I have ever used, including shotguns, assault rifles, and ESPECIALLY the heavy pistols (wtf?!). It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I can kind of appreciate the schtick here - it's supposed to be an obscenely powerful weapon that's difficult to control, but instead it ends up being a pointless waste of effort just because of how utterly impossible it is to land hits in the first place. It also makes no thematic sense whatsoever - seriously, it's an SMG! If you want something powerful that's difficult to control, why not an assault rifle or something? Complete and utter nonsense for any SMG to have more recoil than a freakin' heavy pistol, man. Complete and utter nonsense.



The Hornet by far is my main backup weapon. There is an aiming technique you can use to keep that aim steady and shoot while moving. It takes a little practice but if done correctly, you can out-gun many assault rifles out there when shooting at mid-range. For long range shooting (sniping distance) you need to stay still more and use cover to steady your aim. But the main trick is to not use zoom (unless aiming from cover at long ranges) and learn how to hold the aiming stick down just enough so that when you shoot your bursts, the weapon will want to pull downwards which will allow you to have a very focused spread and landing the shots accurately. The Hornet definately is powerful, and if they made a stability mod for it, it would probably dominate all of the automatic assault rifles out there due to its high rate of fire and super quick reload.

The weapon demands aggressive use. Though you can use it to shoot at sniping ranges using this trick, closing the gap and assaulting the enemy with it is far more devastating. I haven't seen anyone else use this gun like I do due to its learning curve. But I've proved it to my friends when I use it exclusively in a game and I end up on the top spot for most kills. You can clear entire rooms real quick. And I always play for supporting or taking objectives.

#82
Guest_PDesign_*

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Recent update

Tempest SMG
- Damage increased from [35.7-44.6] to [41.1-53.5]

Locust SMG
- Damage increased from [26.2-32.8] to [30.1-39.3]


Shuriken SMG
- Damage increased from [29.3-36.6] to [33.6-42.1]


Mattock Assault Rifle
- Damage increased from [83.7-104.7] to [94.2-117.8]


Vindicator Assault Rifle
- Damage decreased from [68.6-85.8] to [62.4-78.0]
- Encumbrance increased from [1.0-0.5] to [1.25-0.7]


SMGs still suck.

#83
2_BR4ZIL_2

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The Collector's Assault Rifle, mainly because its stuck on level 1, doing lousy damage.

#84
Elecbender

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Kopikatsu wrote...

Zyrusticae wrote...

So, I've been messing with the Hornet some.

It is ridiculous. It can do a LOT of damage... but the kick is so insanely powerful that there's literally no way you can land consecutive hits in quick succession. The kick, in fact, is higher than any other weapon I have ever used, including shotguns, assault rifles, and ESPECIALLY the heavy pistols (wtf?!). It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I can kind of appreciate the schtick here - it's supposed to be an obscenely powerful weapon that's difficult to control, but instead it ends up being a pointless waste of effort just because of how utterly impossible it is to land hits in the first place. It also makes no thematic sense whatsoever - seriously, it's an SMG! If you want something powerful that's difficult to control, why not an assault rifle or something? Complete and utter nonsense for any SMG to have more recoil than a freakin' heavy pistol, man. Complete and utter nonsense.


Eh. With the Turian stability bonus, the recoil is negligible. And then you throw on Marksman...


Unfortunately Marksman does not negate muzzle climb which is the Hornet's weakness.  If it did, the weapon would become godly.

#85
jzzabelle

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AresCrusader wrote...

jzzabelle wrote...

M-76 REVENANT
This gun is TERRIBLE. Horrible spread, damage, and impairs your movement while shooting. The only class which can theoretically take advantage of this weapon is the Soldier (more specifically the Turian soldier). However, due to the extreme suckage of the accuracy and damage (even with accuracy mods and the Marksman bonus spec'd into accuracy) this gun is hard to control and has a terrible DPS.

Add that to the fact that the marksman bonus REQUIRES you to keep shooting to keep up DPS, meaning that you expose yourself to enemy fire at the same time. Just a terrible gun to complement a terrible class overall. Solution? Boost the accuracy or remove the movement impairment. Or just remove this gun. Its terrible.



See, I would disagree with you on this one. I use it as the only gun on my Quarian engineer, and it is brilliant. Enemies always target the turret, and I just keep up constant fire from cover (thanks to recoil & mag mods).  :)


Yes, on Bronze anything seems good.

#86
Kastrenzo

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TexasToast712 wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Fixed. Everything is fine. SMG's are supposed to be trash and the Revenant is fine now.


Why include them in the first place then.

#87
Thargorichiban

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2_BR4ZIL_2 wrote...

The Collector's Assault Rifle, mainly because its stuck on level 1, doing lousy damage.


Well, if you buy the Razer accessories, the cheapest being a $24 iPhone 4 case, it will cost $216 to see what it's like at X.

#88
kw0lf

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jzzabelle wrote...

M-76 REVENANT
This gun is TERRIBLE. Horrible spread, damage, and impairs your movement while shooting. The only class which can theoretically take advantage of this weapon is the Soldier (more specifically the Turian soldier). However, due to the extreme suckage of the accuracy and damage (even with accuracy mods and the Marksman bonus spec'd into accuracy) this gun is hard to control and has a terrible DPS.

Add that to the fact that the marksman bonus REQUIRES you to keep shooting to keep up DPS, meaning that you expose yourself to enemy fire at the same time. Just a terrible gun to complement a terrible class overall. Solution? Boost the accuracy or remove the movement impairment. Or just remove this gun. Its terrible.

Well, you knew the best gun from ME2 would have to be the worst gun in ME3. :)  I agree with you 100% on this one.  Terrible gun ... so much kick that my hand gets tired after one match using that damn thing ... are you serious with the controller rumbling on this one?   Dumb that it's rare ... should be in a "cursed" category and you can't put it down for 2 matches!

#89
Sabbatine

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Thargorichiban wrote...

2_BR4ZIL_2 wrote...

The Collector's Assault Rifle, mainly because its stuck on level 1, doing lousy damage.


Well, if you buy the Razer accessories, the cheapest being a $24 iPhone 4 case, it will cost $216 to see what it's like at X.


Hahaha you just made my night.

#90
Ediblestarfish

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I find the patch makes the listed SMGs okay, but I still take pistols over them most of the time, and always use pistols when weight matters.

Firepower overall just feels on par with a pistol at very close combat where 90% of the shots land, but much weaker as distance increases due to frequent misses easily tossing 20% or more shots into the air.

Personally I think they went about making SMGs the wrong way. They should be shield/barrier stripping tools that work well at medium range. The low damage was ok if they had an alternate use, but they didn't (and still don't) work because of their poor accuracy and recoil.

#91
MartialArtsSurfer

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BrotherWarth wrote...

Whenever I play using this gun, I have to hold back sometimes because I keep stealing everyone's kills. And that's why sometimes it's unfair when they're trying to level up their xp. Add me as a friend and I'll have a game with you.


No worries, Bioware designed this with their RPG roots so EVERYONE GETS THE SAME TOTAL SQUAD EXPERIENCE at the end of the mission --everyon'es points are added up together & everyone gets it all so it's okay if you rack up tons of kills --everyone on your team will get the same experience

MartialArtsSurfer wrote...

TeamLexana wrote...

AnarchyyFox wrote...

MartialArtsSurfer wrote...

I usually
play Adepts too so used to be annoyed by Vanguards also until I
realized that that Bioware made the multiplayer like a MMO & RPG
in that

ALL EXPERIENCE & CREDITS PER MISSION IS SHARED AT THE
END OF THE MISSION --WE ALL GET THE SAME CREDITS & EXPERIENCE
POINTS at end of mission... so if others rack up 100+ kills while I only
get assists, it doesn't matter, we all get the same experience total
experiences points of everyone on the team added up


so it's alll good --other players can get the kills but you still get all the experience points they get too !

Once
you realize that, you can relax, enjoy the game without having to worry
about getting the most kills on the leaderboards --it's NOT like CoD
where only your own kills count --EVERYONE'S experience/kills/assists
are added to  the SQUAD experience points & EVERYONE GETS THE TOTAL
SQUAD EXPERIENCE POINTS :)


Can I have a point of
clarity then and literally just to understand as I;m pretty new to this
game.  If all the EXP is shared why do certain players EXP bars go up
more than mine in the mission re-cap?  Or is this just showing how well
each player does and then it combined for everyone?


For pride. It doesn't matter, everyone gets the same xp and credits.


"Or
is this just showing how well each player does and then it combined for
everyone?" -yep, it's combined for everyone .. how each player does
just shows how much each person contributed but it's all combined
together at the end & everyone gets its all totalled & is the
same total for everyone


Modifié par MartialArtsSurfer, 15 mars 2012 - 02:48 .


#92
Viscereality

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Submachine guns are supposed to be reserve weapons that can spray a lot of ammo out but have relatively shallow ammo reserves.
Their weight currently fits that role, but their damage is abysmal. Neuter their ammo and buff their damage a lot, that way people can use them as a reserve weapon for emergencies if they want to bring something like a claymore or a widow.

#93
MartialArtsSurfer

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SMGs had a 50% damage bonus vs. shields & barriers just like shotguns while heavy pistols & snipers had a 50% damage bonus vs. armor

Assualt rifles have a 25% -33% damage bonus vs. shields/barriers & armor

according to the wiki for Mass Effect 2

this explains why snipers & heavy pistols are so much better because most elite mobs have tons of armor but not much shields

#94
oppje

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I feel like I'm gimping myself everytime I'm using assault rifles (never use SMGs, they're even worse)...

Rifles like the Phaeston just seem horribly underpowered. Being surprised by a Geth Hunter with the Phaeston only is almost a death sentence. I tried with my Turian Soldier to see if it got better. On single weak enemies, it kind of works. Facing an Atlas with two teammates down by its feet and two bars of armor left I couldn't kill it in time to save my teammates.

Edit: I'm talking about Silver, can't imagine Gold is better

Modifié par oppje, 15 mars 2012 - 03:00 .


#95
Drummernate

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Are some people just bad at aiming?

The Phaseton is superior in every way than the Avenger other than it does a TINY bit less damage.

The Avenger Mark X is one of the best, well rounded rifles in the game, and can kill anything pretty fast if you can actually get headshots, but seeing as most of you all complain that they do low damage, you obviously don't know how to hit the target's head.

That is the main purpose of AR's, multiple shots on a targets weak spots.

#96
Guest_PDesign_*

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Phaeston

yet another watergun.

#97
Legato 0021

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I've rocked the scopion on Gold runs and normally land top score.....
Your using it wrong :P

As for the GPR yes... need a serious buff.
Revenant is a joke.
And Paladin never got it yet but I know people who have it and don't use it cause it is barely different from Carnifex.


Edit**
The Revenant and GPR are silly because!
One. Geth are suppose to be most advance race other than Reapers.
Having such a silly tickle master 5000 weapon is insulting to them.

Two. Revenant is suppose to be a light saw machine gun so pretty much like an M-249.
On most games 80 bullets should kill ATLEAST 4 PEOPLE AVERAGE BASE SOLDIERS WITHOUT RELOADING! >:[
Seriously, it should have a much higher damage because well.... its a SAW..... its meant to dispatch groups of enemies.... not just light up a Geth Prime on Gold and take off 2 squares of sheilds with 80 rounds..... 

Modifié par Legato 0021, 17 mars 2012 - 05:36 .


#98
Torrible

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At insanity difficulty  (as a Vanguard), I find the Revenant more useful than the Geth Pulse Shotgun against an Atlas or a Brute. Geth shotgun will only have 5 clips per magazine and that is never going to take down an Atlas at that level. With a good magazine mod, I can unload the entire 200+ Revenant clips unto the bastard.

That said, Particle Rifle with armor piercing mod as well armor piercing ammo activated completely destroys said enemies.

Edit: Just realised this is about MP. My Bad

Modifié par Torrible, 17 mars 2012 - 06:02 .


#99
III Mav III

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No weapon needs a buff, if the weapon isnt very good use a better one *derp*

#100
TommyNg

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those weapons suck because they are just level one with no ammo power