44 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

Oh my gawd did you seriously just call Oblivion a "virtual world"?

Scheduling gimmicks do not a virtual world make, and it's particularily hilarious in this case because Oblivion has Kvatch. You know, the whole town that gets raided and destroyed at the beginning of the game then, no matter how many years pass by they haven't even PUT OUT THE FIRES and the idiot refugees are still camping right outside.



I swear, people wwho suggest that Bethesda games should be held as an example don't seem to have played them at all.

Makes me wonder why that moron Todd Howard even bothers to produce games, he should just not do it and say he did - people would still hold it up as a paragon of gaming.

[Dark83]

I'm hoping the latest Fallout will have Bethesda's world building and Black Isle's writing. Since Bethesda is utterly incompetant at it. Fallout 1/2 level of writing would be grand.

Modifié par Dark83, 27 novembre 2009 - 07:47 .

[Endurium]

It is a virtual world from a technical standpoint, far more than any Bioware game is, to be certain. It has day/night cycles, NPC schedules, swimming, jumping (but no climbing), dynamic weather and lighting, FPS elements when using a bow, and a seamless continent. It's not perfect but it's close to what I prefer. The main quest is that game's major problem, and that's why people generally call sandbox games weak in terms of story and plot. Doesn't have to be that way, but developers would rather focus on one thing or another (easier money).



Until something comes along (single-player) that improves on Oblivion's virtual world elements, I'll continue using it as an example. Feel free to suggest something better if you know of it. You didn't do that in your angry post.

[The Angry One]

So did Ocarina of Time.

I notice you ignored my point on Kvatch.

[Endurium]

The Angry One wrote...

I notice you ignored my point on Kvatch.

It was included in my comment on the "main quest".

[The Angry One]

The mage tower here is part of the main quest too, what's your point then?

And if you want a side quest example.. Oblivion. Mage quest chain. Bruma. Mage guild. Gets burned down. Repaired? Never. Immersion? Out the window.

Modifié par The Angry One, 27 novembre 2009 - 07:53 .

[Endurium]

You're living up to your forum name, so I'll just leave you be. My opinion remains intact since you haven't provided any compelling reason for me to change it.

[The Angry One]

Anger doesn't chance the point, only the manner in which it's provided.

If I wanted to hold tea parties I'd live with my aunt, and your opinion is yours, however I've provided two examples of how Oblivion flat out violates your "virtual world" idea wholesale.

[mscotch]

The reason the Circle Tower hasn't been cleaned yet is because it's not in the Templars' contract to perform such cleaning. Until an agreement is reached between management and the Templar union, the Circle Tower will remain in a state of disrepair.

[The Angry One]

mscotch wrote...

The reason the Circle Tower hasn't been cleaned yet is because it's not in the Templars' contract to perform such cleaning. Until an agreement is reached between management and the Templar union, the Circle Tower will remain in a state of disrepair.

They have to get the Rite of Janitorium which can only be given out by the Grand Cleric on tuesdays if the moon is full and nobody's bought any pretty shoes that day.

[Dark83]

Endurium wrote...

Until something comes along (single-player) that improves on Oblivion's virtual world elements, I'll continue using it as an example. Feel free to suggest something better if you know of it. You didn't do that in your angry post.

Morrowind > Oblivion's virtual world.

[T0paze]

lllevokelll wrote...

While I agree with OP, it seems to me much better they left it be, than if they had tried to code clean-up under time pressure and bugged or hedged out one's ability, say, to return trip and pickup Morrigan's grimoire if missed on first pass, or to return to purchase items (+1 spell book) from the quartermaster, or so forth.

Ideally, cleanup and access, but in the rush to get the title out by holiday shopping, I can kind of understand aesthetic cleanup falling off the feature-triage wishlist.

i.e. I'm saying, I noticed, but didn't think it was _negligence_ per se. I thought it was actually good judgment under pressure, however modestly critiqueable in a more ideal game development world.

-evoke

A little clarification is in order, it would seem. I don't know why Bioware decided to leave the Circle Tower as it was after the attack. Maybe, they decided to do that for gameplay considerations, maybe they wanted to redo the upper floors as well but didn't have sufficient time or resources, or maybe they simply weren't paying any attention - as I said, Bioware's games, although excellent in many other aspects, have always been somewhat static. Unless a Bioware employee clarifies this matter, we won't be able to find out. The result, however, is the same. So, when I was writing about 'ridiculous negligence' I actually meant that the mages (and templars) were neglecting their most basic duties to the extent that, given the situation, seems simply ridiculous, even for a computer game.

Speaking of corpses, Castle Redcliffe is hardly better. I mean, if, after fighting some guards in the main room of the castle, the PC agrees to go to the Circle Tower to ask the first enchanter to help, the party will then return to the castle only to find that Bann Teagan and Isolde had obviously been so shocked by the recent events that they didn't even bother to have the corpses of their guards removed from the room and buried somewhere.

Modifié par T0paze, 28 novembre 2009 - 01:21 .

[The Angry One]

I always get irritated by the lack of attention to detail in things like this.

I understand games are made on limited schedules, but still. If an area is liberated or restored, I damn well want to see it. I want to see the circle tower fixed up, Redliff put back in order, the Dwarven Thaigs you clear populated by expeditions and cleaned up a bit, etc.



Though I suppose in BioWare style games they simply don't intend for you to visit there again unless you really need that quest. It's a lot more glaring in Oblivion where Kvatch stands out like a sore thumb (as an aside, to show how Bethesda listens to it's players, despite the multiple requests for DLC to restore Kvatch, none was ever made despite the relative simplicity of such a task. That's right, Bethesda won't lift a finger even if you offer to PAY them).

[Aldaris951]

You guys must not of saved all the mages, During the final boss fight of the tower. I did not let 1 mage get turned into a demon, When the quest was complete there were surviving mages on every floor and it was cleaned up, the Tower still looked damaged but there was no dead bodies, You guys must of just saved the first enchanted but one of the mages died or something.



Also when you beat the castle redcliff quest, after the boy has been saved. The whole castle is cleaned and you even see maids scrubbing the floors and guards around the place.

[The Angry One]

Aldaris951 wrote...

You guys must not of saved all the mages, During the final boss fight of the tower. I did not let 1 mage get turned into a demon, When the quest was complete there were surviving mages on every floor and it was cleaned up, the Tower still looked damaged but there was no dead bodies, You guys must of just saved the first enchanted but one of the mages died or something.

Pics or it didn't happen.
As far as I know all those mages drop dead when the fight ends anyway, abomination or not.

Also when you beat the castle redcliff quest, after the boy has been saved. The whole castle is cleaned and you even see maids scrubbing the floors and guards around the place.

Yes but the corpses remain, and nobody clears up Connor's toys on the 2nd floor hall either.
Oh but they do relock the armoury just in case you missed anything there! Ingrates.

[ComTrav]

It's so funny to do Dagna's quest from Orzammer, and then come back to see her standing in the midst of the ruins, screaming like a fangirl ZOMGMAGESAWESOMESAUCE

[The Angry One]

ComTrav wrote...

It's so funny to do Dagna's quest from Orzammer, and then come back to see her standing in the midst of the ruins, screaming like a fangirl ZOMGMAGESAWESOMESAUCE

This is the real reason the Chantry is considering an Exalted March to Orzammar - the Circle, through Graegor are constantly whining to them about this dwarf girl who keeps mocking their pain.

[Dark83]

Yeah, my mages dropped dead too. So pointless. Though tactically sound - what kind of moron would go "oh, I'll let them turn into abominations" even if you intend to kill them all?

[DPSSOC]

Slight reminder and possible explanation. After you complete the Circle mission you essentially issue a call to arms. That means each and every mage (or Templar if you went that way) is preparing to go to war. Considering they'd need to prepare supplies, heal anyone they can as quickly as possible, and organizing to move out clean up is low priority wouldn't you say?

[Arijharn]

I don't have any problem with it, for the reasons others have pointed out. Besides, this is a story game, not a virtual world game like Oblivion, which has people working shifts and the world going about its business regardless of what you're doing. In this game *everything* revolves around you. That's okay sometimes, but I'll have to rely on Bethesda to give me the virtual world treatment I prefer (in single-player games). Here's to Elder Scrolls V...

I liked Oblivion and I liked Morrowind, but to me the problem is that they are basically the same game with graphical updates... As much as I regret saying it, Bethesda is stagnation personified almost, they are almost as bad as the next Ace Combat at worst or Final Fantasy at best, with plots that are so singular they can be basically crafted by an expert system.

You may be looking forward to the next Elder Scrolls (and all the power to you for doing so) but I think that even if you love the world 'immersion' of the game, you'll probably be thinking: "Wow, I wish this had a storyline beyond being born in prison to uncertain parents at an uncertain time." You'll probably be wishing: "Gee, i wish this had plot points that could rival BioWare's!"