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Penny Arcade employee criticizes fan campaign against ME3 endings; BioWare developer Manveer Heir re-tweets his thoughts *READ MY DISCLAIMER; BE CIVIL*


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#76
Verit

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tommythetomcat wrote...

I mean what can I say other than he's entitled to his opinion, even if it is childish and glosses over the reason why most people are angry. The ending is non nonsensical and NOTHING you've ever done in ME factors into the ending.

Pretty much this. The Penny Arcade employee is just ridiculing the "change the ending" demands by making it seems people can't accept an intentionally "dark" ending. There's obviously a lot more to it than that, but it's better to just ignore his comments as reacting to them isn't going to do any good. We just need to stick to providing constructive criticism about the various problems with the ending.

Modifié par -Draikin-, 12 mars 2012 - 03:47 .


#77
wulf3n

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Evil Minion wrote...
In a sense I can see his point.


I don't.

The joke "examples" he provided are set narritives designed to tell a specific story, the endings fit the themes presented througout the story.

Mass Effect was completely different.

Is it wrong to want a story to meet your every whim, yes.

Is it wrong to want was promised, what we payed for! no.

we were told countless times our actions would determine the ending of the game.

Modifié par wulf3n, 12 mars 2012 - 03:51 .


#78
Leonia

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Penguins wrote...

This will get ugly.


It already is.

I liked the endings. Sue me.

Could it have been better? Yes, there could have been an epilogue sequence that we'd be tearing apart right now and bashing because such-and-such was left out or made out to be more important than such-and-such.

But the ending we have is what we have, accept it. Move on.

Modifié par leonia42, 12 mars 2012 - 03:48 .


#79
SilentWolfie

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In this case, the majority are bloody right.

#80
Direwolf1618

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Wow, yea as if this wasn't already a big FU.

#81
Turtlicious

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SLPr0 wrote...

Legendaryred wrote...

Don't really know who he is.


In basic, its a lamprey that attached itself to the gaming communities years ago because a guy could draw gaming relevent comics, then somewhere in there an agent got involved and somehow Penny Arcade is some kind of bastion of profound gaming insight and witticism.

I'll bet my last dollar that Yahtzee is going to come out next Wednesday and make all these gaming "media" people look like over-opinionated, out of touch douchebags.


God I'm waiting for this, I think I can finally let go once Yahtzee agrees with me.

#82
Harbinger of Hope

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That just f***ing enrages me. Not only that someone would bash (at least) 13,000 people, but the fact that one of their own developers would re-tweet this is just appalling. It's like saying "Oh you don't like our ending? Well, go f*** yourself. We got your money, what do we care if we ruined a series you have put hundreds of hours of your life into?."

#83
Taleroth

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SLPr0 wrote...

I'll bet my last dollar that Yahtzee is going to come out next Wednesday and make all these gaming "media" people look like over-opinionated, out of touch douchebags.

Only the last dollar? Because I would bet a dollar against your dollar that Yahtzee's going to come out and tell the fanbase to shut it.

#84
wirelesstkd

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Legendaryred wrote...

Still, implying that one should never complain is the dumbest thing i ever heard seriously. If you go to a restaurant and you're giving a bad dish, what you do? do you just eat it, move along or do you complain to the management about the poor food which you paid for?


When I waited tables I had a guy complain that he didn't like the fact that there was salt on the fries. "Tell the cook not to put salt on the fries. Let the people decide how much salt they want"  (I swear to God, I'm not making this up - he was an older guy, it was TGI Fridays). But here's the thing - that's just how Fridays does their fries. I could understand if he didn't like it. In the future he could order it with no salt. But it was Fridays' fault that he didn't like the food they serve. They didn't do anything wrong, it just didn't suit his tastes.

He didn't get that, though. He literally expected me to tell the cook to change the way the multinational corporation serves fries because he - one old dude in Orange, Connecticut - didn't like the way they were salted.

So... long analogy short, yeah, you can complain, but you shouldn't expect to get them to change the story they wanted to tell. Feel free to eat at Applebees from now on, though.

#85
Leonia

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Diagreeing with 13k people is now labelled as bashing? Really?

Jeff, I think the civility you requested is already gone.

Modifié par leonia42, 12 mars 2012 - 03:49 .


#86
wulf3n

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Taleroth wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...

I'll bet my last dollar that Yahtzee is going to come out next Wednesday and make all these gaming "media" people look like over-opinionated, out of touch douchebags.

Only the last dollar? Because I would bet a dollar against your dollar that Yahtzee's going to come out and tell the fanbase to shut it.


If he even manages to finish the game, i doubt it'll be next wednesday, as it will only have been a week.

#87
JeffZero

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leonia42 wrote...

Diagreeing with 13k people is now labelled as bashing? Really?

Jeff, I think the civility you requested is already gone.


Egh, maybe so.

#88
TheAsphodel

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leonia42 wrote...

Diagreeing with 13k people is now labelled as bashing? Really?

Jeff, I think the civility you requested is already gone.


No. But being a dick about it, and refusing to understand the arguements, is kinda bashing.

#89
tommythetomcat

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Taleroth wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...

I'll bet my last dollar that Yahtzee is going to come out next Wednesday and make all these gaming "media" people look like over-opinionated, out of touch douchebags.

Only the last dollar? Because I would bet a dollar against your dollar that Yahtzee's going to come out and tell the fanbase to shut it.


Yahtzee has been pretty transparent about his love affair with ME even with its flaws.  If he doesn't do a video supporting the idea that the endings are crap he will more than likely write about it in his Friday blog thing.

#90
Reptilian Rob

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He obviously hasn't played or been a part of this franchise, at all.

#91
BobbyTheI

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Be ready folks, because this is only going to get worse.

The gaming press will always stick up for their developer buddies. The most you can hope for is a somewhat neutral response that we've seen in a few articles. But most of them are going to have exactly the same tone as this incident does.

Right now, they see this as the L4D2 boycott all over again. A bunch of people who will whine about it for a while but, when the next DLC comes out, will immediately cave and start feeding BioWare their dollars again.

They're going to insult you, make you feel like you're stupid for taking this seriously. And if you let it get to you, then they're already winning.

#92
SLPr0

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Yanno this thing from Kuchera and the Kotaku article and Jim Sterling's Destructoid article are starting to feel like some folks at BW are calling in some favors to try to use the media to marginalize the fan bases concerns.

I do not like that feeling, at all.

#93
AxisEvolve

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It's like he's unaware that there's a "roleplaying" mode in the game.

Typical "Action mode" logic.

#94
Sons Of Liberty

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Reapinger wrote...

Am I seriously the only person who sees the blatant sarcasm in the tweet?...

"There is a movement to change the ending of Mass Effect 3. I love it. I support it."

Ok, I support this.

Then he goes on to say....

"I want this for everything. I'm starting a letter writing campaign to have Gatbsy end with a steamy sex scene"

Pretty damn unlikely and sarcastic.

"Max Payne should end with a surprise party and his wife and kid are there. Someone needs to write the petition."

Yeah, he's definitely being a dick about it.


Yes I see, but I'm not one of those people to respond, but I will link this, I remember PennyArcade being awesome about last year or so over a sortof close maybe not so close maybe not so similar incident with said controller/game etc, and a bully, meh I'll just post it....

Instant Fame for All the Wrong Reasons

It all started with a question over a simple game accessory. Now, the story has propelled one PR firm into a spotlight so fast, it has been extremely hard to keep track of all the updates. It should be a PR firms dream come true, but it has become exactly the opposite.

Public Relations (PR) is always a tricky business. One wrong move or one wrong comment and it can take an otherwise decent campaign to promote something straight in to catastrophe. It’s not hard to imagine this type of business as walking a tightrope between not losing the audience and pushing the envelope.

If you’ve followed the Ocean Marketing saga, you are probably aware of just how off the rails PR can go – and this particular story goes well in to the realm of absolute absurdity. On December 16, a customer known as Dave, contacted Ocean Marketing to find out what happened to a pre-order of a gaming accessory made on November 3. The e-mail was straight forward enough given that it was merely a question on an update on when the product was going to arrive. Not that unreasonable of a question which probably should have been relatively straight forward to answer.

After a few exchanges on verifying which order Ocean Marketing merely commented on the whereabouts of the shipment. The website was updated during this time to lower the price of ordering. Naturally, Dave asked whether or not it would be better to cancel the pre-order and just order the version with the discount. Ocean Marketing replied that this would not be allowed, but took it a step further and threatened to sell his pre-oder on eBay for 150$. The customer was not amused by this and became frustrated with this and asked to cancel his pre-order.

Usually, something like this get’s dropped, but the chain e-mail was forwarded to Penny-Arcade. In response, Ocean Marketing shot back at the customer, saying things like, “Grow up you look like a complete child bro.”, “people have inquired but you’re the douchiest of them all”, “You just got told [explitive]“, and infamously saying, “Son Im 38 I wwebsite as on the internet” (the rest of the comment would be Not Safe for Work) while saying that the orders are actually still in China.

Mike Krahulik, at this point, stepped in and threatened to cancel his booth at Pax east. Ocean Marketing responded to Krahulik saying that he had “bigger and better shows to be at” as well as saying how he has connections to big name gaming companies. He even went further by sending this veiled threat in the e-mail, “money buys a lot and connections go even further. He’s a native Bostonian from Little Italy”

Krahulik replied by essentially explaining that he does PAX east. Ocean Marketing responded by saying how he’s got big connections and Krahulik didn’t know who he was messing with. After complaining about the original customer in question, he say, “he’s a customer unless you’re his boyfriend then you should side with the company not the customer. Be Careful ”

After a few more testy exchanges, the chain ended with Ocean Marketing saying, “I have about 125 dedicated people to run PR , Blogs , Articles , Videos you have no clue who I am . Thanks again”

Sometime after the exchange, the e-mail chain was posted to Penny Arcade (Warning: NSFW language). It turns out, the person behind Ocean Marketing making those e-mails was the president Paul Christoforo.

You’d think that after this got the spotlight, Christoforo might realize that this has gone well in to the realm of the absurd and figure out how to dig himself back out of the hole he created. Evidently, that wasn’t the case.

Scott Lowe, Executive Editor of IGNTech caught wind of this story and sent Christoforo a Tweet, saying, “Please refrain from referring to me or IGN as support for you, your company or your clients. You do not have it.”

In response, Christoforo replied, “Your a douchebag anyway Scott we sent you how many units for review , How many conversations You were the unprofessional one”

In a move that should surprise no one, N-Control fired Christoforo as a result of the events that unfolded.

The story did not end there.

The story didn’t just hit the web in some small way, it pretty much exploded in comparison to how small this story originally was. It not only sparked an internet meme or two, but also a parody video (NSFW language) and posted on numerous social news sites. On thread on Fark reached well over 900 comments as well as hitting Slashdot, and launched a nearly 4,500 comment long thread on Reddit (hat tip to TechDirt for the Reddit link) Even Geico got in on the action by tweeting, “Great savings, outstanding service, and a proven 75-year track record. And we will never wwebsite as on the Internet.”

With all of this happening, even Christoforo, as it turns out, has his limits. An update was posted to Penny Arcade where Cristoforo was begging for forgiveness by saying things like “You have the power Mike Please make it stop” and “I didn’t know how big your site was and I really didn’t believe you ran Pax , So for what’s its worth I am very sorry.”

The apology was apparently unconvincing as Gabe comments, “I think there is a big difference between being sorry and being sorry you got caught. I have a real problem with bullies. I spent my childhood moving from school to school and I got made fun of everyplace I landed. I feel like Paul is a bully and maybe that’s why I have no sympathy here. Someday every bully meets and even bigger bully and maybe that’s me in this case. It’s the same thing that happened with Jack Thompson. It might not always make the most business sense and it is a policy that has caused us some legal problems, but I really don’t give a **** about that. When these ****s threaten me or Penny Arcade I just laugh. I will personally burn everything I’ve made to the ****ing ground if I think I can catch them in the flames.”

With such an incredible storm being sparked over something so little as a video game accessory, it’s hilariously astonishingly outrageous that it has escalated as much as it has. With the internet responding in almost unanimous fashion against him, the only thing impressive about Christoforo is how much hate he managed to direct towards himself in such a short period of time.

I think the reason why this story has ultimately exploded as much as it has is simply the attributes people see in Christoforo. While comparing him to the school yard bully is a popular way of describing him, there are so many other ways people can compare Christoforo to that one annoying drive-you-up-the-wall person they know in their lives. Whether it happens to be that arrogant boss that almost everyone in the workforce loathes, or the guy that gets a promotion he so clearly does not deserve or just that person you know through someone else who is so egotistical that he can’t see past his own nose, many people see these attributes in Christoforo as evident in the discussions around the internet.

Everyone dreams that this one individual in their lives that drives them oh so crazy would eventually slip up and mess with the wrong person – that mouth that gets the owner in so much trouble that years of karma comes back to haunt him. I think a lot of people got a lot of that satisfaction when they saw the complete and total self-destruction of Cristoforo in the Ocean Marketing saga.

I think this is a big part on why this story really seemed to strike a nerve with so many people in such a short period of time. I don’t think of myself as an evil person, but I have gotten a sort of satisfaction of seeing someone who exhibited several different flavors of ****ry get what he deserves.



Source:  http://tinyurl.com/d4rdbjy

Modifié par Sons Of Liberty, 12 mars 2012 - 03:55 .


#95
Leonia

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All I'm hearing is "he doesn't think what we think so he must be wrong".

#96
SandTrout

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First off, this is just one PA employee. He's not even one of the two heads of PA. It is unfair to associate his opinion with that of the creators of PA, who have not stated anything regarding ME's ending, probably for fear of backlash.

That said, he admits that he has only "heard of" our complaints. He did not say he was following the controversy, or was actually informed about it. He is basing his statements off of uninformed prejudice.

It's safe to say we can ignore him.

#97
MrAtomica

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Hey man, you can complain about us all you want, it's cool. Maybe you meant it in a joking, not really serious kind of way, maybe not. But guess what? If you were being serious, and this sentiment gets repeated to us by more of the team, you just blew your own leg off.

One way to lose fans is to insult them. An even worse way is to insult them indirectly. If you think we're morons, say it. Don't play politician and dance around the subject by using other people's opinions like a flame shield.

#98
Kloborgg711

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leonia42 wrote...

Penguins wrote...

This will get ugly.


It already is.

I liked the endings. Sue me.

Could it have been better? Yes, there could have been an epilogue sequence that we'd be tearing apart right now and bashing because such-and-such was left out or made out to be more important than such-and-such.

But the ending we have is what we have, accept it. Move on.


No one wants to sue you. No one here wants to do ANYTHING to you. We want our own endings. How does that affect YOU? I don't understand at all. "My opinion is X, so all these people need to stop having opinion y"
If we our own ending DLC, how would that hurt you?
It seems like contradiction for the sake of contradiction.
Why should we move on? How will that benefit you?
Don't understand.

#99
Metal_Izanagi

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Strange that we're expected to be civil toward this guy, when he outright insults those of us that would be in disagreement with him right off the bat. Is that how it is now? Some dude is allowed to insult everyone because he works for Penny Arcade, but is immune to backlash when his opinion is so obviously insulting to people like myself, who were disappointed with the ending(s) after, in my case and probably others, literal /years/ invested in this series, its background, and characters?

#100
Taleroth

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tommythetomcat wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...

I'll bet my last dollar that Yahtzee is going to come out next Wednesday and make all these gaming "media" people look like over-opinionated, out of touch douchebags.

Only the last dollar? Because I would bet a dollar against your dollar that Yahtzee's going to come out and tell the fanbase to shut it.


Yahtzee has been pretty transparent about his love affair with ME even with its flaws.  If he doesn't do a video supporting the idea that the endings are crap he will more than likely write about it in his Friday blog thing.

Oh, he'll probably say the endings are crap, but then he'll tell the fans to shut up.