225 réponses à ce sujet

[BobbyTheI]

SLPr0 wrote...

Yanno this thing from Kuchera and the Kotaku article and Jim Sterling's Destructoid article are starting to feel like some folks at BW are calling in some favors to try to use the media to marginalize the fan bases concerns.

I do not like that feeling, at all.

You know, I'm a huge fan of Giant Bomb.  And it's really going to suck when they inevitably chime in and call us a bunch of cry-baby losers just like all the other gaming sites are going to.  But I understand.  If you listen to the podcasts and watch their videos, these developers are their friends.  And if people are out there talking crap about something your friend put a lot of hard work into, you're going to rush in to defend them, even if it is total garbage.

Which is why I say: expect zero to a paltry amount of actual positive coverage on this from gaming sites.  We're entitled losers, that's going to be what everybody paints us as.  And that perception isn't going to change until our words turn into actual lost sales for BioWare and EA.

[Kloborgg711]

leonia42 wrote...

Diagreeing with 13k people is now labelled as bashing? Really?

Jeff, I think the civility you requested is already gone.

Disagreeing? What? Is that how you see it through those fantasy glasses? Maybe disagreeing with thousands of fans (a lot more than the ones who post here) would be fine if he actually responded to US with CIVILITY. Instead of indirectly mocking all of our opinions. Civility? This behavior is disgusting.

[JeffZero]

SandTrout wrote...

First off, this is just one PA employee. He's not even one of the two heads of PA. It is unfair to associate his opinion with that of the creators of PA, who have not stated anything regarding ME's ending, probably for fear of backlash.

That said, he admits that he has only "heard of" our complaints. He did not say he was following the controversy, or was actually informed about it. He is basing his statements off of uninformed prejudice.

It's safe to say we can ignore him.

It wasn't his comments that I felt worthy of examination. It was the fact that Manveer Heir re-tweeting him was a tiny morsel of developer response to the ending controversy, effectively. I thought that was clear.

[Averdi]

If he want's those things changed, I'd invite him to go for it; wouldn't hurt me.

Not all ideas or grievances are equal though.

[CDRSkyShepard]

leonia42 wrote...

Diagreeing with 13k people is now labelled as bashing? Really?

Jeff, I think the civility you requested is already gone.

I wouldn't call it bashing, but it was very uncalled for with the level of sarcasm and complete writing-off of legitimate concerns.

They have plot holes, and they are a far cry fromt he "wildly divergent endings" we were told would occur. I wouldn't call three flavors of the same ending, with some variation on the state of earth/the galaxy "wildly divergent." I am also not a fan of the Gilligan's Planet situation. It undermines the relationships we've been encouraged to cultivate, not to mention there is no good explanation for how the Normandy was in relay transit when it happened. Weren't they at Earth still? What about that whole thing where relay transit is instantaneous?

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

JeffZero wrote...



"Max Payne should end with a surprise party and his wife and kid are there. Someone needs to write the petition."[/b]

If the Bioware employee implies the ending is bad because its a sad/non-hollywood ending he is so wrong.

Its bad because:

1) So many questions are left unanswered
2) You dont get to see a proper epilogue of what happened to everyone (Especially our romance option)
3) There is no final challenge (End boss)
4) Star kid suddenly reveals himself as if Bioware didnt know what to do and pulled a random rabbit out of the magician hat hoping for the best.

The ending isnt bad because shepard dies or even in that the earth is destroyed. Thats NOT the issue. Hell, the reapers cleaving shepard in half with a red energy beam and completing the cycle would be a better ending.

[TheAsphodel]

leonia42 wrote...

All I'm hearing is "he doesn't think what we think so he must be wrong".

Have you ignored his inflammatory arguments?

[Dracotamer]

Looks like MORE Bioware employees bashing their customers. Just like the Mike Laidlaw incident with DA2.

[MoarToast4U]

Oh that's mature... instead of legitimizing our complaints and examining the possibility that they just might have screwed the pooch, we're gonna get mocked. Bring it on, I say. Rudeness isn't going to make this movement go away. In fact, it will serve to just throw gas on it. Same goes for the recent authors that mocked and trivialized this movement.

[slyborg]

MrAtomica wrote...


One way to lose fans is to insult them. An even worse way is to insult them indirectly. If you think we're morons, say it. Don't play politician and dance around the subject by using other people's opinions like a flame shield.

This is what pisses me off the most. I'm not going to comment on it, but I will retweet someone else's snarky comment about it.

[Leonia]

Dracotamer wrote...

Looks like MORE Bioware employees bashing their customers. Just like the Mike Laidlaw incident with DA2.

Uh no, it's a retweet.

[deathscythe517]

leonia42 wrote...

Diagreeing with 13k people is now labelled as bashing? Really?

Jeff, I think the civility you requested is already gone.

Snarking isn't going to make people respect your opinion, sir or madam, neither is offhandedly trying to appeal to the person who made the opening post. You like the endings, that's fine, others and I want resolution and distinct variety - if you sift through the data files you find out they cut some content for the Starchild, content that was much better, and more heartfelt than the stupid thing. You can like the ending, you can even say you think all campaigning is silly, but don't tell people to stop just because of how you view things.

We're not trying to end world hunger or anything, our goals aren't unrealistic.

[wulf3n]

wirelesstkd wrote...
When I waited tables I had a guy complain that he didn't like the fact that there was salt on the fries. "Tell the cook not to put salt on the fries. Let the people decide how much salt they want"  (I swear to God, I'm not making this up - he was an older guy, it was TGI Fridays). But here's the thing - that's just how Fridays does their fries. I could understand if he didn't like it. In the future he could order it with no salt. But it was Fridays' fault that he didn't like the food they serve. They didn't do anything wrong, it just didn't suit his tastes.

This is different though.

It's not that the ending isn't what we wanted, it's that it wasn't what we were told we would get. 

It'd be more like if the guy orderd fries with out salt, but the chef salted them any way, and them told him, "suck it up, these are our fries, we'll cook them how we want them, even though you paid for them on the request that they come without salt." 

[Brahlis]

Sigh. Thanks Bioware, I don't mind being insulted.

[Kloborgg711]

leonia42 wrote...

All I'm hearing is "he doesn't think what we think so he must be wrong".

Then you need to get your fingers out of your ears, buddy. Are you really incapable of seeing the difference between responding to people and indirectly mocking them?

[KingNothing125]

I haven't read the Great Gatsby, so I can't comment on that. But Max Payne having a party at the end would basically be what Mass Effect 3 has now... an ending that completely eschews its established narrative and genre conventions.

Mass Effect is not film noir. Nor has it ever been pulp sci-fi fantasy with Godchildren and ghosts and crap. The ending of ME3 is completely antithetical to the entire rest of the series.

If these tweets are any indication about how much care or thought BioWare's developers give to their creations, I weep for my favorite sci-fi universe.

[JeffZero]

Metal_Izanagi wrote...

Strange that we're expected to be civil toward this guy, when he outright insults those of us that would be in disagreement with him right off the bat. Is that how it is now? Some dude is allowed to insult everyone because he works for Penny Arcade, but is immune to backlash when his opinion is so obviously insulting to people like myself, who were disappointed with the ending(s) after, in my case and probably others, literal /years/ invested in this series, its background, and characters?

You're expected to civil to this guy (and especially Mr. Heir, whose work on ME3 was pretty damn excellent I might add) because anyone in your shoes is already going to look weird to the average internet-goer; being the lesser man or woman and insulting other individuals is not going to help the cause.

[Reapinger]

It comes down to the fact that in a game based on choice, the endings varied so slightly that your choice was seemingly for naught. DIfferent colors, stargazer scene every time, normandy crashes every time, Shep has a chance of possibly being alive in rubble, etc. There's no closure, no explanation, no epilogue, nothing that gives justice to a 7 year finale in the making other than 4 minutes of poor voice acting and writing.

[AxisEvolve]

leonia42 wrote...

All I'm hearing is "he doesn't think what we think so he must be wrong".

Not at all. I just think it's a weak point to compare an RPG marketed on the premise that every choice matters to an 87 year old book.

leonia42 wrote...
Uh no, it's a retweet. 

 
I've never seen anyone retweet something they disagree with.

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 12 mars 2012 - 03:58 .

[Esker02]

leonia42 wrote...

All I'm hearing is "he doesn't think what we think so he must be wrong".

There's always some trendy contrarian. If you want the constructive reasons on why the ending was poor, feel free to visit any one of the numerous threads here that details them. The frustration being expressed here is more about having those concerns dismissed in an indifferent, sarcastic manner... which you, quite frankly, are contributing to.

[Vasparian]

He can go right to hell. He speaks for bioware no matter if it's here or on twitter.

[tommythetomcat]

JeffZero wrote...

It wasn't his comments that I felt worthy of examination. It was the fact that Manveer Heir re-tweeting him was a tiny morsel of developer response to the ending controversy, effectively. I thought that was clear.

Sadly this doesn't surprise me since BioWare has been indoctrinated by EA.  If you can sit there and tell me there isn't massive flaws, like ones that even a 12 year old could pick out(he did) then it has to be Repear influence.  or lots and lots of money.

[Leonia]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

All I'm hearing is "he doesn't think what we think so he must be wrong".

Then you need to get your fingers out of your ears, buddy. Are you really incapable of seeing the difference between responding to people and indirectly mocking them?

Maybe the better thing you should ask is "Why is he mocking us?" Maybe it's because the unrealistic expectations of the fanbase are out of line? Maybe he's not insulting you but trying to make you realise how unfair you're being in your assessments and judgments? Get YOUR finger out of your ears, mate.

Modifié par leonia42, 12 mars 2012 - 04:00 .

[Solduri]

Esker02 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

All I'm hearing is "he doesn't think what we think so he must be wrong".

There's always some trendy contrarian. If you want the constructive reasons on why the ending was poor, feel free to visit any one of the numerous threads here that details them. The frustration being expressed here is more about having those concerns dismissed in an indifferent, sarcastic manner... which you, quite frankly, are contributing to.

quoted for truth

[Laurcus]

Grr. What an arrogant ****ing thing to say. Like serious? Did he even read people's arguments? The ending was bad for one of two reasons.

1. It contains MASSIVE inconsistencies. These have been discusses at length in other threads.
2. The only way the inconsistencies are solved is if it's an indoctrination induced dream, in which case the fight is still ongoing. If that's the case then Bioware lied to us, because ME3 did not finish the story, and it requires DLC to continue the ending.

I know this one guy doesn't represent the opinion of the entire company, but that's still a big ol' kick in the balls.

Modifié par Laurcus, 12 mars 2012 - 04:04 .