225 réponses à ce sujet

[detroitmechworks]

Bioware may have just inadvertently created their competition.

Hundreds of angry gamers, told "We like this, and we made it, so we're right!"

Of course the proper response to a creative person is "You know, I can write better than this. In fact, I WILL write better than this."

And lo, a hundred new novelists set out to recover from their betrayal.

[SgtRaWr001]

I tweeted the official mass effect twitter page saying that I disliked the ending but had faith that they'd put things right somehow and that I still love Bioware, while they were tweeting, retweeting and replying others. Funnily enough every single reply and retweet was from people praising the **** out of the game and saying nothing about the ending and not a single tweet reply/retweet was to anyone that had anything other than OH YES YOU ARE AMAZING THIS GAME IS THE BEST SLURP SLURRRRRRRP SLURRRRRRP to say to them. Seriously if there's such a thing at a corporate level as professional denial then this must be it. Sad really that they can't even address the people who aren't pleased with the way things panned out. If they put out a press release tomorrow saying they were going to have a DLC coming out that resolves the ending most of us would be throwing our money at our monitors and wondering why it wasn't taking it, then remembering that buying things over the internet doesn't work that way.

[Xion66]

I'm not going to jump on the guy, but at this time this is a delicate situation between developers who put a lot of time into the game, and went through a lot to make this the best game they thought they could, on the other hand we have a fanbase who i've always seen depicted on other forums and sites as having an unwavering loyalty to the developer (Bioware) but now for the first time, a big part of the community is upset, and this community instead of acting childish have been actually organized, polite and considerate of Bioware even though most are frustrated or downright depressed or sad.

Bioware employees should avoid this subject until they are ready to adress the issues the fanbase has been asking. Those re-tweets are unprofessional, flamebait, and kind of unfair to a fanbase who just means well and loves the developer and their games.

rl;dr: Until Bioware, bioware employees have something with some weight to say, they should avoid the subject, let alone offend a lot of paying and loyal fans, even if it's just a re-tweet.

[CDRSkyShepard]

JeffZero wrote...

Metal_Izanagi wrote...

Strange that we're expected to be civil toward this guy, when he outright insults those of us that would be in disagreement with him right off the bat. Is that how it is now? Some dude is allowed to insult everyone because he works for Penny Arcade, but is immune to backlash when his opinion is so obviously insulting to people like myself, who were disappointed with the ending(s) after, in my case and probably others, literal /years/ invested in this series, its background, and characters?

You're expected to civil to this guy (and especially Mr. Heir, whose work on ME3 was pretty damn excellent I might add) because anyone in your shoes is already going to look weird to the average internet-goer; being the lesser man or woman and insulting other individuals is not going to help the cause.

You have to take the high road. Have to. That's the only way anyone is going to take us seriously. I know it sucks, but this isn't going to be a fight easily won. However, it can turn into a very nasty fight very easily, that will get us written off forever...we must tread lightly and be respectful. Must.

[mupp3tz]

The problem with many of these articles I've read is that they have NO IDEA why people are frustrated by the ending. They just brush it off as extreme fanboyism and a sense of entitlement. They think we want an ending where a unicorn saves Shepard and reunites him with his LI. It's not about that AT ALL. If any of them had even taken the time to go through some of these threads, they'd realize how naive they sound and how rational many of the arguments actually are.

[Militarized]

Thanks for updating me about twitter guys

Is there a way to see if people are tweeting him, like comments on FB?

[RocketManSR2]

Penguins wrote...

This will get ugly.

It already is.

[wulf3n]

leonia42 wrote...
Maybe the better thing you should ask is "Why is he mocking us?" Maybe it's because the unrealistic expectations of the fanbase are out of line? Maybe he's not insulting you but trying to make you realise how unfair you're being in your assessments and judgments? Get YOUR finger out of your ears, mate.

How is it unreasonable?

they said our decisions throughout all 3 games would determine the ending?
instead we got a choice with no context, that not only had no relevance to any of our choices, but made them all moot, as we get to that same precipe, no matter what we've done.

[JeffZero]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Metal_Izanagi wrote...

Strange that we're expected to be civil toward this guy, when he outright insults those of us that would be in disagreement with him right off the bat. Is that how it is now? Some dude is allowed to insult everyone because he works for Penny Arcade, but is immune to backlash when his opinion is so obviously insulting to people like myself, who were disappointed with the ending(s) after, in my case and probably others, literal /years/ invested in this series, its background, and characters?

You're expected to civil to this guy (and especially Mr. Heir, whose work on ME3 was pretty damn excellent I might add) because anyone in your shoes is already going to look weird to the average internet-goer; being the lesser man or woman and insulting other individuals is not going to help the cause.

You have to take the high road. Have to. That's the only way anyone is going to take us seriously. I know it sucks, but this isn't going to be a fight easily won. However, it can turn into a very nasty fight very easily, that will get us written off forever...we must tread lightly and be respectful. Must.

Yep.

[Sons Of Liberty]

I didn't even notice he worked for BioWare, that makes me sad. Thanks for making me even more depressed, even though I've personally dropped over $1000 in your company,....I'm going to the bar, I've been here for days now, not worth it anymore...I've seen so many nice posts and so many nice people and I always promised myself I would never post in this place 'cause I've never had anything wrong on my end with BW (cause I never played DA), I think nearly many are being polite, it's just a few who speak out and comments from a Twitter are not going to help.

Alright, I'm gonna some beers

[TheAsphodel]

We can stop it from getting uglier. Just keep your heads.

/end Paragon interrupt.

[Leonia]

Esker02 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

All I'm hearing is "he doesn't think what we think so he must be wrong".

There's always some trendy contrarian. If you want the constructive reasons on why the ending was poor, feel free to visit any one of the numerous threads here that details them. The frustration being expressed here is more about having those concerns dismissed in an indifferent, sarcastic manner... which you, quite frankly, are contributing to.

I'm aware of the constructive reasons, this conversation via Twitter is not about a constructive discussion on the matter, however. I even agree that more could have been done with the ending. I think you guys are making this Twitter exchange (where one is extremely limited in how many characters they are allowed to use to make their point) out to be more than it is.

It isn't a flat out dismissal of the issues, it's pointing out that some of the issues are getting out of hand.

Modifié par leonia42, 12 mars 2012 - 04:05 .

[DXLelouch15]

without us you dont get to eat
we control your well EVERYTHING
without gamers you wouldnt even exist

[SLPr0]

I understand Manveer retweeting it, because as a developer I'd be in the same position...christ I just spent years putting together this work of art and people want me to change it.

Its a reaction based in frustration, he can't say it himself so he retweets someone who says an approximate of what he feels.

Its not that he thinks we're stupid its just that he feels what they produced was a classic work of art, that changing the endings would be in complete antithesis to their creative vision.

Only problem with that is the creative vision apparently wanted to destroy a whole galaxy and seems to think players are supposed to find that very satisfying as a final chapter of five years of gaming investment.

[SolidisusSnake1]

I couldnt care less about the PA idiot, but the fact that a BioWare employee re-tweeted this just shows what they think about us.

They are mocking us and give don't to shi-ts about what we think.

Modifié par SolidisusSnake1, 12 mars 2012 - 04:04 .

[Wattoes]

Clearly doesn't understand the problem.

Happ/sad isnt the problem at all.

[Kloborgg711]

leonia42 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

All I'm hearing is "he doesn't think what we think so he must be wrong".

Then you need to get your fingers out of your ears, buddy. Are you really incapable of seeing the difference between responding to people and indirectly mocking them?

Maybe the better thing you should ask is "Why is he mocking us?" Maybe it's because the unrealistic expectations of the fanbase are out of line? Maybe he's not insulting you but trying to make you realise how unfair you're being in your assessments and judgments? Get YOUR finger out of your ears, mate.

OK, I'm not even going to bother explaining why asking for DLC is far from "unrealistic", but again I'll ask, why can't he tell us? Why can't he respond to this thread (or even via twitter) and say

@fans for new ending
You're beingunfair in your assessments and judgements, and your call for a new ending is realistic

instead of being a complete **** and sarcastically mocking a huge chunk of the community? And sorry, but when someone insults me, I generally don't concern myself with wondering why I'm being insulted. If he wants us to consider his perspective he sure picked a ****ty way to ask for it. Do you realize how stupid this sounds?

Bioware Dev: Fans are morons. I laugh at how stupid they are.
Fans React
You: Well, if he's calling you stupid, maybe you should realize you are stupid and stop being so stupid.

Modifié par Kloborgg711, 12 mars 2012 - 04:06 .

[bluewolv1970]

Manveer Heir is entitled to his opinion and we are entitled to not purchase any of the meaningless dlc that will be coming out on ME3...

[wirelesstkd]

wulf3n wrote...

wirelesstkd wrote...
When I waited tables I had a guy complain that he didn't like the fact that there was salt on the fries. "Tell the cook not to put salt on the fries. Let the people decide how much salt they want"  (I swear to God, I'm not making this up - he was an older guy, it was TGI Fridays). But here's the thing - that's just how Fridays does their fries. I could understand if he didn't like it. In the future he could order it with no salt. But it was Fridays' fault that he didn't like the food they serve. They didn't do anything wrong, it just didn't suit his tastes.

This is different though.

It's not that the ending isn't what we wanted, it's that it wasn't what we were told we would get. 

It'd be more like if the guy orderd fries with out salt, but the chef salted them any way, and them told him, "suck it up, these are our fries, we'll cook them how we want them, even though you paid for them on the request that they come without salt." 

The analogy isn't perfect, lol... but I disagree. I think that it's always implied that the writer/producer gets his way. It's okay to be disappointed. And it's okay to vote with your wallet. But I really think it's wrong to insist that an artist change the art he made to suit you. I don't mean that in an ethical way or anything... not like you guys are all "wrong" or "bad," but just that it's the wrong way to look at storytelling. At some point you have to respect a person telling the story they wanted to tell. It was their story to start with, ya' know?

[Leonia]

Manveer Heir also indicates that his opinion is not the opinion of Bioware as a whole, take that for what it's worth.

Modifié par leonia42, 12 mars 2012 - 04:06 .

[yoshibb]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Metal_Izanagi wrote...

Strange that we're expected to be civil toward this guy, when he outright insults those of us that would be in disagreement with him right off the bat. Is that how it is now? Some dude is allowed to insult everyone because he works for Penny Arcade, but is immune to backlash when his opinion is so obviously insulting to people like myself, who were disappointed with the ending(s) after, in my case and probably others, literal /years/ invested in this series, its background, and characters?

You're expected to civil to this guy (and especially Mr. Heir, whose work on ME3 was pretty damn excellent I might add) because anyone in your shoes is already going to look weird to the average internet-goer; being the lesser man or woman and insulting other individuals is not going to help the cause.

You have to take the high road. Have to. That's the only way anyone is going to take us seriously. I know it sucks, but this isn't going to be a fight easily won. However, it can turn into a very nasty fight very easily, that will get us written off forever...we must tread lightly and be respectful. Must.

This is true, if we respond with something equally immature, we are simply giving them what they want which is to make us look like bitter entitled fans. Make your arguments in a civil manner.

The first step is them taking notice. They are no longer able to ignore us. Now we have to make them understand why these endings need to be changed.

[McBeath]

It's shocking that a Bioware employee would retweet that, or even respond at all regarding the endings just yet. Most corperations have rules against that since it's clear that he is an employee and is commenting on a business issue without it going through a PR/manager first.

The silence is likely Bioware trying to figure out what to do, while this comment seems directed at angering CUSTOMERS.

Where I work I could be fired for something like that(people have been before).

Cheers. McBeath.

[deathscythe517]

leonia42 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

All I'm hearing is "he doesn't think what we think so he must be wrong".

Then you need to get your fingers out of your ears, buddy. Are you really incapable of seeing the difference between responding to people and indirectly mocking them?

Maybe the better thing you should ask is "Why is he mocking us?" Maybe it's because the unrealistic expectations of the fanbase are out of line? Maybe he's not insulting you but trying to make you realise how unfair you're being in your assessments and judgments? Get YOUR finger out of your ears, mate.

Calmly explaining why you did something is trying to make someone see your viewpoint, being venomously sarcastic (believe me, I know, my sarcasm is paper thin and so is his) just serves to agitate. The expectations aren't unrealistic, in fact, they're a **** load more realistic than the tons of demands that sprung up in regards to the Day 1 DLC. They could do some light editing to add some really really cheap variety, which would content most, or create alternate ending DLC which most (disappointingly) would pay for. I've said it before, I get it, you like the ending, but you seem to only want to respond to people in order to be stand-offish. When any movement gets large enough you'll attract crazies, however, most are respectful, your side of things however has been nothing but smug superiority and sarcasm which, shockingly, pisses people off.

[nitefyre410]

BobbyTheI wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...

Yanno this thing from Kuchera and the Kotaku article and Jim Sterling's Destructoid article are starting to feel like some folks at BW are calling in some favors to try to use the media to marginalize the fan bases concerns.

I do not like that feeling, at all.

You know, I'm a huge fan of Giant Bomb.  And it's really going to suck when they inevitably chime in and call us a bunch of cry-baby losers just like all the other gaming sites are going to.  But I understand.  If you listen to the podcasts and watch their videos, these developers are their friends.  And if people are out there talking crap about something your friend put a lot of hard work into, you're going to rush in to defend them, even if it is total garbage.

Which is why I say: expect zero to a paltry amount of actual positive coverage on this from gaming sites.  We're entitled losers, that's going to be what everybody paints us as.  And that perception isn't going to change until our words turn into actual lost sales for BioWare and EA.

 

I see your point but I sorry that will just make me even more irrated.. Especailly after  Gaint Bomb did such a great job with  Fighting Game Community Sexism issue that came with Street Fighter X Tekken and that guy did on Cross Assualt..

So what if the Devs are their friends.. If my best friend was  site writer and was I writer/dev and he played those endings.  First I would get a phone calling with him telling... exactly how he felt with very colorful language.. Then He rip me a new one  on the sad...   You what he tell me.   "You wrote that crap deal with fall out or fix it. You deserve every bit of flak you are getting.."  

If they were friends of the Devs and Writers at Bioware... they would call them out on this nonsense.. Instead they are just as bad because they don;t want to lose the inside access.  

Also that may be the problem... there site writers and Devs are too close and objectivity is being lost.  

Modifié par nitefyre410, 12 mars 2012 - 04:07 .

[SolidisusSnake1]

This PA guy is such an ass, someone responded to his dumb tweets and here is the exchange:

@BenKuchera You realize Mass Effect 3 is a role playing game in which you make decisions that (are supposed to) effect the ending?

@tyronelanders To be honest I never play the games I talk about, so please tell me more. It's not a shooter?

A total as-s-hole