225 réponses à ce sujet

[Kloborgg711]

leonia42 wrote...

Manveer Heir also indicates that his opinion is not the opinion of Bioware as a whole, take that for what it's worth.

It's worth nothing. It's for completely legal reasons. A high-position developer from Bioware mocks the very fans the company claims to share their development with.

[TheAsphodel]

Let them show that they're an ass. Let others judge. All we need is for 1 idiot gamer, and the world things we're morons.

[Harbinger of Hope]

wulf3n wrote...

wirelesstkd wrote...
When I waited tables I had a guy complain that he didn't like the fact that there was salt on the fries. "Tell the cook not to put salt on the fries. Let the people decide how much salt they want"  (I swear to God, I'm not making this up - he was an older guy, it was TGI Fridays). But here's the thing - that's just how Fridays does their fries. I could understand if he didn't like it. In the future he could order it with no salt. But it was Fridays' fault that he didn't like the food they serve. They didn't do anything wrong, it just didn't suit his tastes.

This is different though.

It's not that the ending isn't what we wanted, it's that it wasn't what we were told we would get. 

It'd be more like if the guy orderd fries with out salt, but the chef salted them any way, and them told him, "suck it up, these are our fries, we'll cook them how we want them, even though you paid for them on the request that they come without salt." 

Perfect analogy. The problem isn't what the endings were, it's that they weren't the endings that BioWare told us we'd get. Also, plot-holes...

So.

Many.

Plotholes.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

This PA guy is such an ass, someone responded to his dumb tweets and here is the exchange:

@BenKuchera You realize Mass Effect 3 is a role playing game in which you make decisions that (are supposed to) effect the ending?

@tyronelanders To be honest I never play the games I talk about, so please tell me more. It's not a shooter?

A total as-s-hole

Just... wow. Makes sense, though. Most people opposing us are those who just don't understand the issue.

[Bronze65]

Not that I want it too, but I have a feeling this thread is going to get locked/deleted.

[Solduri]

leonia42 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

All I'm hearing is "he doesn't think what we think so he must be wrong".

Then you need to get your fingers out of your ears, buddy. Are you really incapable of seeing the difference between responding to people and indirectly mocking them?

Maybe the better thing you should ask is "Why is he mocking us?" Maybe it's because the unrealistic expectations of the fanbase are out of line? Maybe he's not insulting you but trying to make you realise how unfair you're being in your assessments and judgments? Get YOUR finger out of your ears, mate.

getting a post end DLC with a better ending or an explaination is a "unrealistic expectation"?  
bethesda did it with broken steel

[Raiil]

I'll withhold judgement on BioWare proper, as one dude shooting his mouth off (or rather echoing someone else shooting off) doesn't constitute majority attitude or thought process.

I do expect, however, BioWare to have him apologise. The fact that he retweeted it doesn't make it 'okay'. I don't care for Penny Arcade or know much beyond the comics a few friends have shown me; they have the right to their opinion, and we have ours.

[nitefyre410]

SLPr0 wrote...

I understand Manveer retweeting it, because as a developer I'd be in the same position...christ I just spent years putting together this work of art and people want me to change it.

Its a reaction based in frustration, he can't say it himself so he retweets someone who says an approximate of what he feels.

Its not that he thinks we're stupid its just that he feels what they produced was a classic work of art, that changing the endings would be in complete antithesis to their creative vision.

Only problem with that is the creative vision apparently wanted to destroy a whole galaxy and seems to think players are supposed to find that very satisfying as a final chapter of five years of gaming investment.

 

No... If I  was in the devs shoes and I let those endings come out after years had work i would embrassed... becasuse this not an issue of creative cison this is and issue  of quality.. Those endings are such a   Mood Whiplash that you might  get a real case of whiplash.

[mupp3tz]

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

This PA guy is such an ass, someone responded to his dumb tweets and here is the exchange:

@BenKuchera You realize Mass Effect 3 is a role playing game in which you make decisions that (are supposed to) effect the ending?

@tyronelanders To be honest I never play the games I talk about, so please tell me more. It's not a shooter?

A total as-s-hole

Sarcam begets sarcasm.  I mean if you think about it, I'm not surpised he's angry considering the giant Metacritic bomb and the ratings on Amazon.  We're cutting into the profitability of the game, and that's got to be frustrating for them.  I'm not a fan of the ending, either.. but people harasassing the developers and writers will just make them NOT want to do anything, instead of trying to actually engage in a conversation with the fans.

[jellobell]

leonia42 wrote...

Manveer Heir also indicates that his opinion is not the opinion of Bioware as a whole, take that for what it's worth.

This is true, but he could've acted with a bit more tact. People are upset, they want answers, and until Bioware issues a public statement then these little bits of information are all we have to go on. Nobody likes being mocked and when it comes on the heels of a disappointing end to a trilogy that's been years in the making people are going to be mad. Manveer Heir should realize this.

[wulf3n]

wirelesstkd wrote...
The analogy isn't perfect, lol... but I disagree. I think that it's always implied that the writer/producer gets his way. It's okay to be disappointed. And it's okay to vote with your wallet. But I really think it's wrong to insist that an artist change the art he made to suit you. I don't mean that in an ethical way or anything... not like you guys are all "wrong" or "bad," but just that it's the wrong way to look at storytelling. At some point you have to respect a person telling the story they wanted to tell. It was their story to start with, ya' know?

Normally I would agree with you.

In a standard story, it's the narrators story, we're just along for the ride. They have every right to take it in whatever direction they want.

The problem is in ME we are as much the Narrator as bioware is, at leasts that's what they've lead us to believe. We should have, at least some control over the story.

[SScagnetti]

Maybe I can be the devil's advocate for a moment. Maybe he just found those particular tweets funny. Not that the endings need to be fixed, but that idea of changing endings in general. It's humor that those who are directly effected by the problem won't like, especially not right now, but maybe it's something they like without meaning offense.

The worst thing we can do is make too many assumptions. This whole thing can get way out of hand.

[Archereon]

I don't think these guys really understand what people are asking for, mainly because the main poll has "We want the ending to be happier" instead of "we want the ending to have closure."

It's not, for most people, that the ending wasn't happy, though for some people, it was the fact that the ending was soul crushingly fatalistic, and basically boiled down to which color of light you wanted to wipe out all life in the galaxy/which flavor of Grim Dark you want (honestly it goes beyond Grim Dark, it's like that 40k fanfiction Nightmare to come in which the Emperor dies, the Imperium falls, the tyranids eat half the galaxy, the Void Dragon awakens and destroys the solar system, and Chaos reigns supreme over the other half of the galaxy).

It's so Grim Dark that it actually clashes sharply with the themes of Mass Effect.

Beyond that, the lack of any sort of meaningful closure is KILLING everyone. I'm half expecting all this to be a ploy to sell post ending DLC that gives us a proper epilogue.

[JeffZero]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

This PA guy is such an ass, someone responded to his dumb tweets and here is the exchange:

@BenKuchera You realize Mass Effect 3 is a role playing game in which you make decisions that (are supposed to) effect the ending?

@tyronelanders To be honest I never play the games I talk about, so please tell me more. It's not a shooter?

A total as-s-hole

Just... wow. Makes sense, though. Most people opposing us are those who just don't understand the issue.

He's just intentionally trolling. He's saying you're all obsessive-compulsives who fidget and twitch and forget your crazy meds whenever someone calls Mass Effect a shooter and that that's all there is to the campaign. He knows that isn't technically the case. He also knows he's perfectly capable of seeking to get a rise out of you and carrying on with his day.

[goofyomnivore]

I personally thought the endings were bad because of the writing not because they're unhappy. Too many plotholes, more questions than answers, etc.

[McBeath]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Manveer Heir also indicates that his opinion is not the opinion of Bioware as a whole, take that for what it's worth.

It's worth nothing. It's for completely legal reasons. A high-position developer from Bioware mocks the very fans the company claims to share their development with.

Agreed, he clearly is an employee of Bioware who has used his status as one(to get followers) and then proceeds to fan the flames of thier discontent.  

It's HORRIBLE customer service and most companies wouldn't take it likely since those customers are thier source of revenue. 

What's more shocking is that somebody would do that on the internet where it's available to been seen.  People get fired for stuff like that all the time.

Cheers.  McBeath,.

[Archereon]

wulf3n wrote...

wirelesstkd wrote...
The analogy isn't perfect, lol... but I disagree. I think that it's always implied that the writer/producer gets his way. It's okay to be disappointed. And it's okay to vote with your wallet. But I really think it's wrong to insist that an artist change the art he made to suit you. I don't mean that in an ethical way or anything... not like you guys are all "wrong" or "bad," but just that it's the wrong way to look at storytelling. At some point you have to respect a person telling the story they wanted to tell. It was their story to start with, ya' know?

Normally I would agree with you.

In a standard story, it's the narrators story, we're just along for the ride. They have every right to take it in whatever direction they want.

The problem is in ME we are as much the Narrator as bioware is, at leasts that's what they've lead us to believe. We should have, at least some control over the story.

That's not true and never was, but I'll give you that it's what BioWare promised us.

[Sora Shepherd]

Fantastic, it's DmC Ninja Theory backlash all over again.

[bluewolv1970]

ultimately we hold the power to not buy any of the DlC they have planned for ME3...that will speak volumes louder than anything else we could do and the best part is that the ending to ME3 was so bad it makes not buying the DLC a complete non sacrifice...

[fropas]

Solduri wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

All I'm hearing is "he doesn't think what we think so he must be wrong".

Then you need to get your fingers out of your ears, buddy. Are you really incapable of seeing the difference between responding to people and indirectly mocking them?

Maybe the better thing you should ask is "Why is he mocking us?" Maybe it's because the unrealistic expectations of the fanbase are out of line? Maybe he's not insulting you but trying to make you realise how unfair you're being in your assessments and judgments? Get YOUR finger out of your ears, mate.

getting a post end DLC with a better ending or an explaination is a "unrealistic expectation"?  
bethesda did it with broken steel

BW could do something like this very easily by having "Ilos DLC" in a couple months for an alternate ending that doesn't require Shepard to run face first into a reaper just to make it back to the citadel. . .But who knows maybe they don't want anymore of my money.

[Reapinger]

https://twitter.com/#!/BenKuchera

It gets worse

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

JeffZero wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

This PA guy is such an ass, someone responded to his dumb tweets and here is the exchange:

@BenKuchera You realize Mass Effect 3 is a role playing game in which you make decisions that (are supposed to) effect the ending?

@tyronelanders To be honest I never play the games I talk about, so please tell me more. It's not a shooter?

A total as-s-hole

Just... wow. Makes sense, though. Most people opposing us are those who just don't understand the issue.

He's just intentionally trolling. He's saying you're all obsessive-compulsives who fidget and twitch and forget your crazy meds whenever someone calls Mass Effect a shooter and that that's all there is to the campaign. He knows that isn't technically the case. He also knows he's perfectly capable of seeking to get a rise out of you and carrying on with his day.

Oh, now I hate this guy even more.

[Solduri]

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

This PA guy is such an ass, someone responded to his dumb tweets and here is the exchange:

@BenKuchera You realize Mass Effect 3 is a role playing game in which you make decisions that (are supposed to) effect the ending?

@tyronelanders To be honest I never play the games I talk about, so please tell me more. It's not a shooter?

A total as-s-hole

>

[Kloborgg711]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

This PA guy is such an ass, someone responded to his dumb tweets and here is the exchange:

@BenKuchera You realize Mass Effect 3 is a role playing game in which you make decisions that (are supposed to) effect the ending?

@tyronelanders To be honest I never play the games I talk about, so please tell me more. It's not a shooter?

A total as-s-hole

Sarcam begets sarcasm.  I mean if you think about it, I'm not surpised he's angry considering the giant Metacritic bomb and the ratings on Amazon.  We're cutting into the profitability of the game, and that's got to be frustrating for them.  I'm not a fan of the ending, either.. but people harasassing the developers and writers will just make them NOT want to do anything, instead of trying to actually engage in a conversation with the fans.

But we're not harassing the developers, at least not in the main threads. We're incredibly civil. Obviously you can't stop the average disgruntled fan from spamming facebook or twitter.. but that's hardly our fault. The metacritic ratings are honestly their own fault, but I don't want to get into the Day-1-DLC debacle, that's for another discussion.

[wirelesstkd]

wulf3n wrote...

Normally I would agree with you.

In a standard story, it's the narrators story, we're just along for the ride. They have every right to take it in whatever direction they want.

The problem is in ME we are as much the Narrator as bioware is, at leasts that's what they've lead us to believe. We should have, at least some control over the story.

I understand your point, but they do let you choose: there are three endings that actually do mean different things for the future of the galaxy. It's just that you can't preserve it as is. Just because it's a choose your own adventure doesn't mean that there has to be an ending where we ride off in to the sunset with our LI (or even anything like that). I really feel like they are so within their rights to give us what they gave us. And I don't feel bait-and-switched. But I do understand where the frustration comes from...