63 réponses à ce sujet

[Ambaryerno]

Keep in mind in a real suite of plate there WOULD be gaps at the joints, however this would be protected by mail: either a full coat worn under the plate, or special "patches" designed specifically for protecting the joints.



Incidentally, a good blow from a mace or hammer might not be able to penetrate the armor, but it would sure as heck would put a dent in it. That dent might not kill you, but it might make the joints immovable, and the pressure on your limbs or torso wouldn't feel good either (remember this stuff was FITTED, so there wouldn't be a lot of extra space between the steel and arming jacket in a well-crafted suit of armor). Finally, the blunt-force trauma was often enough to do all the damage that was needed (hence the padded gambeson or jacket 27 layers of linen thick).



I do like the basics of how the game handles armor penetration. Maces may not be as powerful as swords (which isn't TOO far from the truth. Although both will kill you just as dead, broken limbs are much easier to fix if you survive than deep cuts and severed limbs....) but have almost 3-4x's the armor penetration (looking at the 2DAs). The result of which is pretty close to reality, with swords and axes ideal against lighter armor, while you don't see a great deal of advantage for a mace or hammer until you start getting into heavy plate.

[Endersblade]

Guys, this is a game. Stop trying to compare it to reality. Hell, look at most of the MMOs out there; ALL armor looks different on females than it does males. I as well would love to see a mod that form-fits (or at least female-ises) all armor in the game, as I'm tired of running around looking like a boy!

[Wompoo]

Agree with the OP, the female heavy plate is horrendous. The game is a fantasy not a mid evil sim, so realism be hanged. Those who like the present ghastly scaled down tin can look are welcome to it.

Modifié par Wompoo, 02 décembre 2009 - 08:42 .

[Never]

The female bodies are manly enough I think, some pretty armor would be nice.

[philippe willaume]

Ambaryerno wrote...

Keep in mind in a real suite of plate there WOULD be gaps at the joints, however this would be protected by mail: either a full coat worn under the plate, or special "patches" designed specifically for protecting the joints.

Incidentally, a good blow from a mace or hammer might not be able to penetrate the armor, but it would sure as heck would put a dent in it. That dent might not kill you, but it might make the joints immovable, and the pressure on your limbs or torso wouldn't feel good either (remember this stuff was FITTED, so there wouldn't be a lot of extra space between the steel and arming jacket in a well-crafted suit of armor). Finally, the blunt-force trauma was often enough to do all the damage that was needed (hence the padded gambeson or jacket 27 layers of linen thick).

yes the armpit protection are called Voiders, the neck throat are called standard and you will have either a cyclist mail short or a skirt  according if you fight on horse or on foot.

Mace are useless against plated, there were phased out in favour of the A hammer (as in ice pick)when transitional armour was in full blow.
i have been hit several time and i have given a few by a the metal holder of the balsa wood when i joust.
it does mark the armour arms slightly dent it but never has been able to prevent it to work or to hurt you and I have been hit on the couters a few time.
I have yet to find someone that can deliver the punch of two horses frontal impact on the tip of a lance


Only poorly made armour/too thin I have put dent the size of a dinner plate. But really  it need to be 1mm-1.5mm of unquenched/untempred steel to be deformed to such extend that you are hurt or it can not function.
A hammer (as in ice pick ) will go through that like butter. I did not try it  on reinforced layers of armour, like the font of the head or against a 2mm thick plackard, But I think it can just about go through 1.5mm of harden and tempered
 
That being said I have knocked out two guy when hi hit them on the head with a solid lance/metal part of relatively thick piece of wood that support the balsa lance.
The hammer of a pole axe would work the same
 
The 25-30layer of linen with or without rawhide is a a piece of armour, it is not desigmned to be worn under plate.
Under full pate you just wear an arming doublet made of fustian (a sort of velvet) and doubled with silk or satin, with or without a layer of linen to get a corseting effect.
It works fine, I use exactly that and its limits the cooking

[philippe willaume]

shiasan wrote...

Guys, this is a game. Stop trying to compare it to reality. Hell, look at most of the MMOs out there; ALL armor looks different on females than it does males. I as well would love to see a mod that form-fits (or at least female-ises) all armor in the game, as I'm tired of running around looking like a boy!

I think the critical point is that of suspension of disbelief.
 
That is a strange things that, people can accept without a problem that plate armour bikini does not cut it protection wise but are happy with armour that would not work for other reasons
Personally I like the differentiation between “heavy armour” and the lighter skimpier outfit that really should satisfy the seedy part of us.
 
They made an effort to differentiate between type and origin of the armour, as you said it is a game; it does not need to be that accurate or steel and leather domination outfit

[Raxxman]

I can't get over the damn shoulder guards in the game.

[philippe willaume]

yes they are tad big :-)



but they are not that far off from actual pauldrons.



http://www.facebook....id=329742005323



if you had a grand guard or jousting specific guard brace. you are getting there-ish

[Jedi0309]

I can agree with everything Philippe is saying, reguarding plate armor. I've watched a great deal of duels and reinactment battles, and most of weapons used by fully armored opponents were piercing weapons, or heavy blunt weapons with studs or spikes. Longswords were next to useless as a slashing weapon. What I've seen most combatants do is grip the handle of the sword and halfway down the blade in an attempt to use the tip of the sword as a piercing weapon.



Gunpowder and firearms phased out the need for plate armor. I've seen several shows where they tested armor vs firearms, and shot an age appropriate firearm against typical field plate armor wore by Knights. The slugs merely dented the chest piece without penetrating it, but went through 50% of other parts of the armor where the metal was thinner. Plate armor was phased out, because it was more cost effective to outfit a handful of men with a musket, bullets, and powder that to wrap one soldier in full plate armor.

[Faerell Gustani]

Jedi0309 wrote...

I can agree with everything Philippe is saying, reguarding plate armor. I've watched a great deal of duels and reinactment battles, and most of weapons used by fully armored opponents were piercing weapons, or heavy blunt weapons with studs or spikes. Longswords were next to useless as a slashing weapon. What I've seen most combatants do is grip the handle of the sword and halfway down the blade in an attempt to use the tip of the sword as a piercing weapon.

Give this man a medal!  Slashing and Chopping attacks were virtually useless against actual fullplate.  Axes sometimes got through, but those were usually diamond shaped blades so it was focusing all of the damage on a single point and was similar to a pick in that regard.

As for longsword technique versus plate, yes, one of the techniques was to hold the blade and use it as a very short spear.  Another odd technique was to hold it completely upside down by the blade and strike them with the point of the crossguard using full leverage...akin to attacking with a pick.

Aside from that, they could just pray that their sword was sturdy enough to land a hard enough blow that it rendered the recipient unconcious.

[Endersblade]

Not that any of this (albeit interesting) lore has ANYTHING what so ever to do with this mod...I STILL want to look more freaking girly in my plate!

[Valtonis]

realism is just a lame excuse for developers to slack off on making different models and textures.

when we start living in a world where dragons, goblins, elves etc coexists with us then you can talk to me about realism in a fantasy game

[Ambaryerno]

Valtonis wrote...

realism is just a lame excuse for developers to slack off on making different models and textures.

I have never heard such a massive load of crap in my life. In fact I'd say the opposite is true. There are PLENTY of opportunities for variety in armor designs without degenerating into the realm of the ludicrous, it just takes a little bit of research. Or just opening up a book.

[PropagandaPanda]

Keep in mind people didn't exactly fight in full plate. It was used mounted, or in tournaments. It was never designed as a face to face armor.

On top of that again is the point of this thread, more feminine plate armor. This is a fantasy game, and adding a bit of shape the the armor isnt really that big of a deal when there are mages, dwarves and elves roaming around as well.



If you figure out how to do it, go for it. Im all for a little flavor to the armor. Nothing about plate bikini's was mentioned here, only adding curves or making it more feminine. Nothing wrong with that.

[Dark83]

I don't see why the introduction of fantastical elements (elves, etc) necessitates or justifies the removal of realistic elements.

[PropagandaPanda]

It didn't say it did. But the introduction of the fantasy stuff allow for the introduction of others. This IS the mod forum after all, and mods ARE voluntary, so why bother going into a mod forum, and telling people that they shouldn't make a fantasy mod of some sort.
Whoever wants the realistic armor the game has now, need never download this mod. Therefor any talk of this mod being pointless is itself pointless.

On another note, Cledwards, if you do go about this, if you are taking any ideas, I'd recommend a curvy armor without 2 breast bulges but only a single one like (One, Two) And I would amke sure it's still plate in nature, as in it covers everthing, no bellybutton showing or anything like that.

[Dark83]

Yet there is a difference between the simple inclusion of non-human races (be they Dwarves or Tau) and the exclusion of elements of reality. Different races are plausible - we have over a dozen types of great cats - me surviving being beheaded is not. They're completely unrelated. My point was that simply adding elements is not justification for removing elements (such as being able to fall from the sky, land on a bed of nails, and be untouched - just because there's a grumpy race of midget miners).

[Dark83]

I should note that I'm not against the creation of mods, or it's inclusion, I'm against that line of reasoning. "They have aliens, so I can survive in space if I just hold my breath!" "They have elves, so I can wear this floss and be as protected as wearing a layer of steel an inch thick!"



I'd edit, but Quick Reply tends not to show within a reasonable time.

[PropagandaPanda]

Fine then don't use the inclusion of other races but the dragons, magic, surviving multiple attacks from multiple assaults and every other element of pure fantasy. The point being, "Why NOT have feminine armor?"

And why not be protected by magical floss armor, its MAGIC! It explains everything, thats the point of MAGIC.

And just for the heck of it, you could actually survive in space for a few seconds holding your breath. (Just before dying a horrible death from your blood sublimates from your body, ouch)

Modifié par PropagandaPanda, 04 décembre 2009 - 09:47 .

[Dark83]

Dragons are just another "race", just another creature. Magic in all media tends to have a set of rules (it being necessary to keep a story coherent). Magic armor (or robes, in DA:O's case) is something else. Surviving attacks is actually just a suspension of verisimilitude for the sake of gameplay. It's the fault of games, not fantasy. You lost HP - you got hit. "Pure fantasy" almost never has characters actually get continuously injured in stories. Battered and bruised, sure, but that's real too.

The point is not "why not have", it's "why does this exist?" The answer of which is not because "there is magic" (since it's not enchanted), nor "there are strange creatures" (which is irrelevant). At best you might say "it's a game" (that is, HP = getting stabbed multiple times every fight).

"It's magic" does not explain everything, especially when it's actually codified in a setting. It has nothing to do with why your mundane, non-magical iron heavy plate is basically two metal coconuts.

My point is fantasy does not justify this, just like "it's fantasy" wouldn't justify Conan wandering around in a thong yet being protected like in heavy plate. I am explicitly questioning the association of adding fantastical creatures or magic to thongs. They don't have anything to do with each other. (Rancors don't require magic, for example. Though Leia does have a bikini, it doesn't really protect her from blaster fire - the script does.)

Modifié par Dark83, 04 décembre 2009 - 09:54 .

[Dark83]

To reiterate: My point is a fantasy setting does not exclude reality. Any media with actual chainmail bikinis tend to never mention it, because it would break suspension of belief. Unless of course it is explicitly magical. So using "because it's fantasy" to explain such things is not a valid answer, and very annoying in that it associates fantasy with negative connotations.

[steelfire_dragon]

the mail bikini armors whether chain, scale or plate, are dark fantasy armors.

they however tend to be well more on the adult side of games to show taht much flesh....



having armor look like a woman is wearing it is not...

[Nastalja]

meh I have to agree with the op. sorry but if i cared that much about realism i would go outside i play games to escape the hell that is the real world for a little while so i realy don't care if it's realistic that my superbad chicky is wearing a plate thong and still smashing heads thats just a perc of someones hard work. So to you all i say stop your flaming of this perfectly reasonable OP and actually offer some advice/good sugestions. The OP didnt ask to be explained a bunch of useless crap about jousting or watching some fake battle or how armor was made. BRING ON THE STEEL BIKINIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[steelfire_dragon]

http://www.pitbullar...com/womens.html




hehe

Modifié par steelfire_dragon, 05 décembre 2009 - 09:29 .

[steelfire_dragon]

I still think that the topic of female armors are very ammusing, on both sides of it

Modifié par steelfire_dragon, 05 décembre 2009 - 09:30 .