524 réponses à ce sujet

[Mazzo0279]

 i sure hop eit end up being a reaper ploy couse 3 games of exelent writing cant end like this

[smuper]

If BioWare planned this on purpose, this would be such a great "F*** Y**"

Releasing the game, waiting for many to end it, and then release the real End. This would blow me away.

What a great Mind**** this would be!

[Candidate 88766]

Worufu wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

The main argument that Shepard is not indoctrinated is that game explicitly tells you that Shepard's defeat of the Reapers has turned him into a legend. Thats about as blatant as Bioware could be in telling you that you defeated the Reapers.

I don't get why people are so adamant about this idea. Its worse than the current endings - it invalidates every choice by making it so Shepard fails no matter what - he falls under the Reapers' influence. At least with the current endings you actually beat the Reapers, despite them being poorly explained, essentially reliant on magic, and providing poor closure for the characters. Shepard being indoctrinated would mean that the Reapers win and the Cycle continues regardless of what you do.

It does not invalidate EVERY choice. We can see something resembling complete change of Shepard into Husk. The thing I saw as the first thing when I was watching Control/Synthesis endings were the eyes.
They are EXACTLY like The Illusive Man's eyes and it's a very noticeable feature that shows an early, but already invasive stage of indoctrination.
I see it as Control means that it's actually the Reapers that control Shepard. He loses. He becomes just like TIM - a puppet. He becomes a simple husk, no longer able to control (eh) his actions. His personality, everything that makes Shepard, uh, Shepard, dies. All is left is a husk.
In Synthesis Shepard, a being mostly organic, yet partly synthetic joins the energy of the Crucible to join organics and synthetics forever. Only, you know, THE REAPERS ARE THE APEX OF SYNTHESIS. They harvest organics in order to create synthetic life. Their core, though, remains organic. Of sorts. Gel, liquid, you know. That means either you simply will be processed and just as thousands of others you will be used in creating a new Reaper, OR Shepard will become a new Reaper's main mind. Like, some resemblance of personality, it's 'voice'. Of course your indoctrinated body will drag itself to the closest processing device/facility and well, there you go.
The Destruction, presented by The Catalyst in a very negative way, is actually Shepard's mind REJECTING the indoctrination. He will wake up right there in the rubble, among bodies and burning Mako's. He didn't move previously and it looked like he was dead (while in truth he was dreaming), so the voice at the beginning of the 'walk to the beam in slo-mo' sequence says that there's nobody alive, 'they', your team, didn't make it. You wake up, free of Reaper's control, shrugging off the indoctrination like it's a flesh wound, retaining your personality and mind, defeating the Reapers at their own game through your willpower and determination, not swaying and deciding to end this the way you always thought was right - by destroying the Reapers.

But if you believe Shepard is indoctrinated, how can you believe any of what the game presents you with?

And if the Reapers did somehow cunjure up this illusion through indoctrination, why provide the option for destroy at all?

And why is it the only choice if your GaW is low?

[Malanek]

spartain999 wrote...
if this entire thing is you indoctrinated what is the point of taking over the reapers. it serves no purpose for the reaper to let them do that. 

 
You don't. They just let you think you do.

spartain999 wrote... 
also u said that that he never left earth when you chose to destroy the reapers. how do u destroy them if you never went to the Citadel also if you never went to the Citadel how do you achieve the control or synthesis. lastly Indoctrination would be him just dreaming dieing on the ground he would have to have actually had to go to the citadel and done something for the Indoctrination theory to make sense.

 

My belief is tha, if this theory is indeed correct, is that Shepard does go to the Citadel. His perception of what is happening is not accurate because it is screwed up while trying to resist indoctrination.

One argument against the theory is that Paul Grayson, in the third book, gets indoctrinated via implants, he is aware of what is happening the entire time but just like a passenger. But at the same time we know indoctrination works differently. It was much more subtle for Saren, Kenson and TIM, which is how I see it for Shep. 

[Candidate 88766]

GOODKyle wrote...

spartain999 wrote...

sorry this doesn't make complete sense its a good vid and has some good points but i have one reason why it doesn't make sense.

if this entire thing is you indoctrinated what is the point of taking over the reapers. it serves no purpose for the reaper to let them do that. also u said that that he never left earth when you chose to destroy the reapers. how do u destroy them if you never went to the Citadel also if you never went to the Citadel how do you achieve the control or synthesis. lastly Indoctrination would be him just dreaming dieing on the ground he would have to have actually had to go to the citadel and done something for the Indoctrination theory to make sense.

sorry its a good idea but there are way to many holes in your theory im still trying to figure out the true ideas of this ending currently i believe it to be that because of all the destruction of this cycles civilization and the destruction of the mass relays that the stargazer from after the credit are the next generation of galactic civilization who believe Shepard to be there god( as the kid calls him the Shepard and we refer to god as the shepard as well) because he freed them from reaper and the synthesis or whatever you chose to do. the reference to more stories of the shepard can be dlc or prequels to the game. he also the star gazer says that the story happen a long long time go and that some of the information has been lost/change /misinterpreted.

ugh x.x I'm getting sick of repeating myself. All of this is a test for indoctrination. So if you choose control you are indoctrinated. You choose destroy you break free from the indoctrination and wake back up on earth where the indoctrination began. You never do anything to the reapers themselves. 

Surely this is massively worse than the current endings though. It means that no matter how hard you try in the game, you either get a story ending in Shepard unknowingly failing or a story that ends right before the Reapers can be beaten.

[TcomJ]

Oh god, please no. If that's actually true, then it would be like you read Harry Potter, 7 of them, and then JK Rolling tells you at the end of the last paragraph that this is all just a dream LOL

[XIXmaximus]

for those of you who are saying that indoctrination makes no sense because if the reapers did indoctrinate (or try) Shep, then they wouldn't give him a choice of destroying them...........it would make even LESS sense that Shep would accept only ONE choice, the choice to do what the reapers want, because he would see through the ploy that they are trying to play.......which is why they MIX MATCH the options to try to confuse you. Being blind to the narratives hints and ques doesn't make this going theory any less valid.  I personally chose the WRONG option out of confusion...which is exactly what the mechanic was set in place for.

Modifié par XIXmaximus, 13 mars 2012 - 12:24 .

[XIXmaximus]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

GOODKyle wrote...

spartain999 wrote...

sorry this doesn't make complete sense its a good vid and has some good points but i have one reason why it doesn't make sense.

if this entire thing is you indoctrinated what is the point of taking over the reapers. it serves no purpose for the reaper to let them do that. also u said that that he never left earth when you chose to destroy the reapers. how do u destroy them if you never went to the Citadel also if you never went to the Citadel how do you achieve the control or synthesis. lastly Indoctrination would be him just dreaming dieing on the ground he would have to have actually had to go to the citadel and done something for the Indoctrination theory to make sense.

sorry its a good idea but there are way to many holes in your theory im still trying to figure out the true ideas of this ending currently i believe it to be that because of all the destruction of this cycles civilization and the destruction of the mass relays that the stargazer from after the credit are the next generation of galactic civilization who believe Shepard to be there god( as the kid calls him the Shepard and we refer to god as the shepard as well) because he freed them from reaper and the synthesis or whatever you chose to do. the reference to more stories of the shepard can be dlc or prequels to the game. he also the star gazer says that the story happen a long long time go and that some of the information has been lost/change /misinterpreted.

ugh x.x I'm getting sick of repeating myself. All of this is a test for indoctrination. So if you choose control you are indoctrinated. You choose destroy you break free from the indoctrination and wake back up on earth where the indoctrination began. You never do anything to the reapers themselves. 

Surely this is massively worse than the current endings though. It means that no matter how hard you try in the game, you either get a story ending in Shepard unknowingly failing or a story that ends right before the Reapers can be beaten.

So you are saying that you never re played any of the ME games to get a different outcome?  Right.....I believe you now........

[fropas]

XIXmaximus wrote...

for those of you who are saying that indoctrination makes no sense because if the reapers did indoctrinate (or try) Shep, then they wouldn't give him a choice of destroying them...........it would make even LESS sense that Shep would accept only ONE choice, the choice to do what the reapers want, because he would see through the ploy that they are trying to play.......which is why they MIX MATCH the options to try to confuse you. Being blind to the narratives hints and ques doesn't make this going theory any less valid.

ignoring that "indoctrinated sheps" still become "legend" makes your theory less valid.

But it's a cool story--I'd much rather believe the ****ty ending was a fantasy--but it doesn't make sense as far as the ending cenematics go.

[TcomJ]

XIXmaximus wrote...

for those of you who are saying that indoctrination makes no sense because if the reapers did indoctrinate (or try) Shep, then they wouldn't give him a choice of destroying them...........it would make even LESS sense that Shep would accept only ONE choice, the choice to do what the reapers want, because he would see through the ploy that they are trying to play.......which is why they MIX MATCH the options to try to confuse you. Being blind to the narratives hints and ques doesn't make this going theory any less valid.

That means there should be a choice that you can not choose any of them too!!

Like this ending that should have been: http://social.biowar...5/index/9813536

[XIXmaximus]

fropas wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

for those of you who are saying that indoctrination makes no sense because if the reapers did indoctrinate (or try) Shep, then they wouldn't give him a choice of destroying them...........it would make even LESS sense that Shep would accept only ONE choice, the choice to do what the reapers want, because he would see through the ploy that they are trying to play.......which is why they MIX MATCH the options to try to confuse you. Being blind to the narratives hints and ques doesn't make this going theory any less valid.

ignoring that "indoctrinated sheps" still become "legend" makes your theory less valid.

But it's a cool story--I'd much rather believe the ****ty ending was a fantasy--but it doesn't make sense as far as the ending cenematics go.

I don't understand why people who are okay with these endings are refuting people who are trying to find comfort in gameplay evidence until we find out for sure.

[CySR2]

I like the Calvin and Hobbes alternative: http://www.snowfi.co..._MassEffect.jpg

[Konges]

GOODKyle wrote...

 I did my best but I have that feeling like I forgot something. Please let me know! But here is my opinion slash viewpoint on the endings. 

UPDATE: 
Westley Hayes ‏ @WestleyHayes 
@masseffect Do you think Shepard can become indoctrinated by the Reapers?

57m Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect 
@westleyhayes Anything is possible 



 

ok I am sold on this. And all I can say is bravo Bioware!

[jedierick]

I have not beat the game yet. This is the first time, ever, I have not wanted to finish a game.

I understand what the OP is pointing out, and while I have not yet beat the game, it makes perfect sense. Especially if you watch the video he linked to or put together. Specifically where you see Shepard breathing or what not, it is not rubble from where he supposedly died. The endings have been a hard topic to avoid, nobody is happy about them, but I have to tell you if Shepard is in the process of indoctrination, the endings would make sense.

Now I come to this, if the endings are a ruse, and it is indoctrination or something else, I will be beyond upset that Bioware made me pay full price for a CE and not get the real true ending. It makes no sense to give people a game and count on them getting the DLC after to complete the ending.

Either way, I think Bioware has lost, they alienated fans by giving them a crappy ending, or they cheated fans out of the true ending. I hold on to hope they have something.

[fropas]

XIXmaximus wrote...

fropas wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

for those of you who are saying that indoctrination makes no sense because if the reapers did indoctrinate (or try) Shep, then they wouldn't give him a choice of destroying them...........it would make even LESS sense that Shep would accept only ONE choice, the choice to do what the reapers want, because he would see through the ploy that they are trying to play.......which is why they MIX MATCH the options to try to confuse you. Being blind to the narratives hints and ques doesn't make this going theory any less valid.

ignoring that "indoctrinated sheps" still become "legend" makes your theory less valid.

But it's a cool story--I'd much rather believe the ****ty ending was a fantasy--but it doesn't make sense as far as the ending cenematics go.

I don't understand why people who are okay with these endings are refuting people who are trying to find comfort in gameplay evidence until we find out for sure.

Sorry maximus,
I'm just bitter that my paragon shep dies at the end, but renegades get to live if they have enough war assets. -_-Why does your shep get to live AND be the good guy? It's just so depressing thinking my shep became indoctrinated. But I'll shut up now. Keep hope alive man.

[Worufu]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Worufu wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

The main argument that Shepard is not indoctrinated is that game explicitly tells you that Shepard's defeat of the Reapers has turned him into a legend. Thats about as blatant as Bioware could be in telling you that you defeated the Reapers.

I don't get why people are so adamant about this idea. Its worse than the current endings - it invalidates every choice by making it so Shepard fails no matter what - he falls under the Reapers' influence. At least with the current endings you actually beat the Reapers, despite them being poorly explained, essentially reliant on magic, and providing poor closure for the characters. Shepard being indoctrinated would mean that the Reapers win and the Cycle continues regardless of what you do.

It does not invalidate EVERY choice. We can see something resembling complete change of Shepard into Husk. The thing I saw as the first thing when I was watching Control/Synthesis endings were the eyes.
They are EXACTLY like The Illusive Man's eyes and it's a very noticeable feature that shows an early, but already invasive stage of indoctrination.
I see it as Control means that it's actually the Reapers that control Shepard. He loses. He becomes just like TIM - a puppet. He becomes a simple husk, no longer able to control (eh) his actions. His personality, everything that makes Shepard, uh, Shepard, dies. All is left is a husk.
In Synthesis Shepard, a being mostly organic, yet partly synthetic joins the energy of the Crucible to join organics and synthetics forever. Only, you know, THE REAPERS ARE THE APEX OF SYNTHESIS. They harvest organics in order to create synthetic life. Their core, though, remains organic. Of sorts. Gel, liquid, you know. That means either you simply will be processed and just as thousands of others you will be used in creating a new Reaper, OR Shepard will become a new Reaper's main mind. Like, some resemblance of personality, it's 'voice'. Of course your indoctrinated body will drag itself to the closest processing device/facility and well, there you go.
The Destruction, presented by The Catalyst in a very negative way, is actually Shepard's mind REJECTING the indoctrination. He will wake up right there in the rubble, among bodies and burning Mako's. He didn't move previously and it looked like he was dead (while in truth he was dreaming), so the voice at the beginning of the 'walk to the beam in slo-mo' sequence says that there's nobody alive, 'they', your team, didn't make it. You wake up, free of Reaper's control, shrugging off the indoctrination like it's a flesh wound, retaining your personality and mind, defeating the Reapers at their own game through your willpower and determination, not swaying and deciding to end this the way you always thought was right - by destroying the Reapers.

But if you believe Shepard is indoctrinated, how can you believe any of what the game presents you with?

And if the Reapers did somehow cunjure up this illusion through indoctrination, why provide the option for destroy at all?

And why is it the only choice if your GaW is low?

I can't believe, that's the 'sweet spot' right there. Shepard a couple of times said himself that 'what if'. What if he's not himself since the Cerberus supposedly rebuilt him? Or did he get out of the Geth Consensus at all? (Consensus is brought up by Joker and it is less possible, yet it somehow fits the theme of things not being reality, also some kind of foreshadowing) But the game makes, please notice, prefect sense and everything is seemingly clear thorough the whole game (except ambiguous dream sequences) and the very trippy ending. Heck, the most obvious point of Shepard's start of indoctrination would be either the visit in the dead Reaper's body or the impulse from a Reaper's artifact in Arrival. An impulse similar to the one that probably started TIM's indoctrination during the First Contact War. It's in the comics. Also, indoctrination isn't forcing something on you. It usually makes you BELIEVE what the Reapers are saying to you. Like Saren, Benezia, TIM. What, if at some point they had a similar dream-like experience, but their choice was wrong? It's like Saren - his motives were good, but he ended up as a puppet. Same here - your intentions are good to choose Control or Synthesis, yes, because there would be less casualties etc - EXACTLY what the Reaper would present you if it would want you to believe that your own actions would be good.

The Destruction option is your own mind, your subconsciousness fighting. Reapers know that you need a choice, that there would always be a choice. Because it's your mind, and your mind will always resist. The Destruction is like the exit from this system, a backdoor that seems very bad and cruel and brutal, it will do things that you don't want to. It will cause death and destruction on a scale that the Reapers could not do themselves. Would Shepard, who's fighting for saving the galaxy take that? Or, the correct question should be: would YOU choose that, knowing that there are other options that will save many people and seemingly will make the Reapers dissappear, too? Food for thoughts.

Destruction being the only option by having not enough GaW (though IDK if it's the only one, I had around 6k EMS at the end) would be a simple, well, BioWare's backdoor. A new ending would just close on the true choice, Destruction, the only where Shepard survives and has his mind intact. The proper ending will start from there. This way players who did not get all the neccessary EMS points wouldn't be screwed up. Then, of course, they could have their True Ending screwed up by not having enough EMS and, well, Reapers win. This time, though, you see everything with your own eyes and not through Reaper-inducted dreams.

[Candidate 88766]

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

GOODKyle wrote...

spartain999 wrote...

sorry this doesn't make complete sense its a good vid and has some good points but i have one reason why it doesn't make sense.

if this entire thing is you indoctrinated what is the point of taking over the reapers. it serves no purpose for the reaper to let them do that. also u said that that he never left earth when you chose to destroy the reapers. how do u destroy them if you never went to the Citadel also if you never went to the Citadel how do you achieve the control or synthesis. lastly Indoctrination would be him just dreaming dieing on the ground he would have to have actually had to go to the citadel and done something for the Indoctrination theory to make sense.

sorry its a good idea but there are way to many holes in your theory im still trying to figure out the true ideas of this ending currently i believe it to be that because of all the destruction of this cycles civilization and the destruction of the mass relays that the stargazer from after the credit are the next generation of galactic civilization who believe Shepard to be there god( as the kid calls him the Shepard and we refer to god as the shepard as well) because he freed them from reaper and the synthesis or whatever you chose to do. the reference to more stories of the shepard can be dlc or prequels to the game. he also the star gazer says that the story happen a long long time go and that some of the information has been lost/change /misinterpreted.

ugh x.x I'm getting sick of repeating myself. All of this is a test for indoctrination. So if you choose control you are indoctrinated. You choose destroy you break free from the indoctrination and wake back up on earth where the indoctrination began. You never do anything to the reapers themselves. 

Surely this is massively worse than the current endings though. It means that no matter how hard you try in the game, you either get a story ending in Shepard unknowingly failing or a story that ends right before the Reapers can be beaten.

So you are saying that you never re played any of the ME games to get a different outcome?  Right.....I believe you now........

Of course I've replayed ME1 and ME2 to get different outcomes - where did I say I didn't? 

[XIXmaximus]

fropas wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

fropas wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

for those of you who are saying that indoctrination makes no sense because if the reapers did indoctrinate (or try) Shep, then they wouldn't give him a choice of destroying them...........it would make even LESS sense that Shep would accept only ONE choice, the choice to do what the reapers want, because he would see through the ploy that they are trying to play.......which is why they MIX MATCH the options to try to confuse you. Being blind to the narratives hints and ques doesn't make this going theory any less valid.

ignoring that "indoctrinated sheps" still become "legend" makes your theory less valid.

But it's a cool story--I'd much rather believe the ****ty ending was a fantasy--but it doesn't make sense as far as the ending cenematics go.

I don't understand why people who are okay with these endings are refuting people who are trying to find comfort in gameplay evidence until we find out for sure.

Sorry maximus,
I'm just bitter that my paragon shep dies at the end, but renegades get to live if they have enough war assets. -_-Why does your shep get to live AND be the good guy? It's just so depressing thinking my shep became indoctrinated. But I'll shut up now. Keep hope alive man.

Trust me, people that support his idea understand that all of this is just speculation...but, with the evidence found IN game....solid evidence, AND the fact that Bioware (logically) would not just blast themsevles into oblivion by lying to the public and butchering their flagship series  when EVERYONE knows that they are capable of better, AND  witholding words about the subject which they would obviously do so they wouldn't ruin any mind blowing surprises.....makes this theory more than plausible, and is much more comforting than being depressed due to 5 years of your life being wasted.

[Candidate 88766]

Worufu wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Worufu wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

The main argument that Shepard is not indoctrinated is that game explicitly tells you that Shepard's defeat of the Reapers has turned him into a legend. Thats about as blatant as Bioware could be in telling you that you defeated the Reapers.

I don't get why people are so adamant about this idea. Its worse than the current endings - it invalidates every choice by making it so Shepard fails no matter what - he falls under the Reapers' influence. At least with the current endings you actually beat the Reapers, despite them being poorly explained, essentially reliant on magic, and providing poor closure for the characters. Shepard being indoctrinated would mean that the Reapers win and the Cycle continues regardless of what you do.

It does not invalidate EVERY choice. We can see something resembling complete change of Shepard into Husk. The thing I saw as the first thing when I was watching Control/Synthesis endings were the eyes.
They are EXACTLY like The Illusive Man's eyes and it's a very noticeable feature that shows an early, but already invasive stage of indoctrination.
I see it as Control means that it's actually the Reapers that control Shepard. He loses. He becomes just like TIM - a puppet. He becomes a simple husk, no longer able to control (eh) his actions. His personality, everything that makes Shepard, uh, Shepard, dies. All is left is a husk.
In Synthesis Shepard, a being mostly organic, yet partly synthetic joins the energy of the Crucible to join organics and synthetics forever. Only, you know, THE REAPERS ARE THE APEX OF SYNTHESIS. They harvest organics in order to create synthetic life. Their core, though, remains organic. Of sorts. Gel, liquid, you know. That means either you simply will be processed and just as thousands of others you will be used in creating a new Reaper, OR Shepard will become a new Reaper's main mind. Like, some resemblance of personality, it's 'voice'. Of course your indoctrinated body will drag itself to the closest processing device/facility and well, there you go.
The Destruction, presented by The Catalyst in a very negative way, is actually Shepard's mind REJECTING the indoctrination. He will wake up right there in the rubble, among bodies and burning Mako's. He didn't move previously and it looked like he was dead (while in truth he was dreaming), so the voice at the beginning of the 'walk to the beam in slo-mo' sequence says that there's nobody alive, 'they', your team, didn't make it. You wake up, free of Reaper's control, shrugging off the indoctrination like it's a flesh wound, retaining your personality and mind, defeating the Reapers at their own game through your willpower and determination, not swaying and deciding to end this the way you always thought was right - by destroying the Reapers.

But if you believe Shepard is indoctrinated, how can you believe any of what the game presents you with?

And if the Reapers did somehow cunjure up this illusion through indoctrination, why provide the option for destroy at all?

And why is it the only choice if your GaW is low?

I can't believe, that's the 'sweet spot' right there. Shepard a couple of times said himself that 'what if'. What if he's not himself since the Cerberus supposedly rebuilt him? Or did he get out of the Geth Consensus at all? (Consensus is brought up by Joker and it is less possible, yet it somehow fits the theme of things not being reality, also some kind of foreshadowing) But the game makes, please notice, prefect sense and everything is seemingly clear thorough the whole game (except ambiguous dream sequences) and the very trippy ending. Heck, the most obvious point of Shepard's start of indoctrination would be either the visit in the dead Reaper's body or the impulse from a Reaper's artifact in Arrival. An impulse similar to the one that probably started TIM's indoctrination during the First Contact War. It's in the comics. Also, indoctrination isn't forcing something on you. It usually makes you BELIEVE what the Reapers are saying to you. Like Saren, Benezia, TIM. What, if at some point they had a similar dream-like experience, but their choice was wrong? It's like Saren - his motives were good, but he ended up as a puppet. Same here - your intentions are good to choose Control or Synthesis, yes, because there would be less casualties etc - EXACTLY what the Reaper would present you if it would want you to believe that your own actions would be good.

The Destruction option is your own mind, your subconsciousness fighting. Reapers know that you need a choice, that there would always be a choice. Because it's your mind, and your mind will always resist. The Destruction is like the exit from this system, a backdoor that seems very bad and cruel and brutal, it will do things that you don't want to. It will cause death and destruction on a scale that the Reapers could not do themselves. Would Shepard, who's fighting for saving the galaxy take that? Or, the correct question should be: would YOU choose that, knowing that there are other options that will save many people and seemingly will make the Reapers dissappear, too? Food for thoughts.

Destruction being the only option by having not enough GaW (though IDK if it's the only one, I had around 6k EMS at the end) would be a simple, well, BioWare's backdoor. A new ending would just close on the true choice, Destruction, the only where Shepard survives and has his mind intact. The proper ending will start from there. This way players who did not get all the neccessary EMS points wouldn't be screwed up. Then, of course, they could have their True Ending screwed up by not having enough EMS and, well, Reapers win. This time, though, you see everything with your own eyes and not through Reaper-inducted dreams.

But why make the other endings require a higher GaW? Games provide better rewards for those who work for them - Bioware wouldn't simply give players who worked harder more chance of unknowingly failing.

[Black Raptor]

2 problems with this theory.

1:How does Shepard win if the ending is just a dream? If he doesn't win, then how is that a better ending than the one you get if the cutscene is the literal truth of it?
(the only real problem with that is the lack of closure. Nothing is explained beyond the Mass Relays exploding. ie how do the Quarians get back to their new homeworld on the other side of the galaxy? Also, how is Earth going to cope with every single soldier in the galaxy having nowhere else to go?)


The second problem is this:
I am lead to believe that certain options aren't available to you if your galactic readiness or whatever isn't high enough. Is that the case?
Therefore, how does the indoctrination theory explain why a certain level of galactic readiness only leaves the destroy reaper option. (I got this from the IGN end guide and apparently one of the 16 "different" endings is that Shepard can only choose destroy.)

Modifié par Black Raptor, 13 mars 2012 - 12:37 .

[Candidate 88766]

Proof that the endings were not hallucinations and that Shepard does indeed defeat the Reapers.



The game explicitly and directly tells the player - outside of the constraints of the story - that regardless of which ending you choose Shepard defeats the Reapers.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 13 mars 2012 - 12:40 .

[XIXmaximus]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

GOODKyle wrote...

spartain999 wrote...

sorry this doesn't make complete sense its a good vid and has some good points but i have one reason why it doesn't make sense.

if this entire thing is you indoctrinated what is the point of taking over the reapers. it serves no purpose for the reaper to let them do that. also u said that that he never left earth when you chose to destroy the reapers. how do u destroy them if you never went to the Citadel also if you never went to the Citadel how do you achieve the control or synthesis. lastly Indoctrination would be him just dreaming dieing on the ground he would have to have actually had to go to the citadel and done something for the Indoctrination theory to make sense.

sorry its a good idea but there are way to many holes in your theory im still trying to figure out the true ideas of this ending currently i believe it to be that because of all the destruction of this cycles civilization and the destruction of the mass relays that the stargazer from after the credit are the next generation of galactic civilization who believe Shepard to be there god( as the kid calls him the Shepard and we refer to god as the shepard as well) because he freed them from reaper and the synthesis or whatever you chose to do. the reference to more stories of the shepard can be dlc or prequels to the game. he also the star gazer says that the story happen a long long time go and that some of the information has been lost/change /misinterpreted.

ugh x.x I'm getting sick of repeating myself. All of this is a test for indoctrination. So if you choose control you are indoctrinated. You choose destroy you break free from the indoctrination and wake back up on earth where the indoctrination began. You never do anything to the reapers themselves. 

Surely this is massively worse than the current endings though. It means that no matter how hard you try in the game, you either get a story ending in Shepard unknowingly failing or a story that ends right before the Reapers can be beaten.

So you are saying that you never re played any of the ME games to get a different outcome?  Right.....I believe you now........

Of course I've replayed ME1 and ME2 to get different outcomes - where did I say I didn't? 

"Surely this is massively worse than the current endings though. It means
that no matter how hard you try in the game, you either get a story
ending in Shepard unknowingly failing or a story that ends right before
the Reapers can be beaten."

^^  you replay ME games knowing that if you ditto the last playthrough you'll get the same result.....so you don't ditto...you play it differently to get another ending.   It is sort of derp to say that this idea isn't valid because one of many endings is obviously inevitablee if you play the game through in a manner that provokes that ending.  So in other words....you implied that you don't replay ME games by throwing out the entire idea of replaying for an alternate ending.

[Candidate 88766]

XIXmaximus wrote...

"Surely this is massively worse than the current endings though. It means
that no matter how hard you try in the game, you either get a story
ending in Shepard unknowingly failing or a story that ends right before
the Reapers can be beaten."

^^  you replay ME games knowing that if you ditto the last playthrough you'll get the same result.....so you don't ditto...you play it differently to get another ending.   It is sort of derp to say that this idea isn't valid because one of many endings is obviously inevitablee if you play the game through in a manner that provokes that ending.  So in other words....you implied that you don't replay ME games by throwing out the entire idea of replaying for an alternate ending.

You misunderstood what I was saying.

I'm asking you why you think indoctrination is a better ending when it leads to two options:

-Shepard failing, but the player not directly knowing this
-Shepard waking up in the ruins of London, before getting to the Citadel - leaving the story completely unfinished

How are those better than the endings we have?

[XIXmaximus]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Proof that the endings were not hallucinations and that Shepard does indeed defeat the Reapers.



The game explicitly and directly tells the player - outside of the constraints of the story - that regardless of which ending you choose Shepard defeats the Reapers.

This means absolutely nothing lol......books are always completed before Epilogues are shown.  Its just as stupidd to tell someone "hey, you are gonna have a surprise birthday, at teh same instant that you try to trick them into thinking everyone forgot."

[ChuckNorris18]

^^Because they give the hope of an adequate ending that ties up the series properly.