524 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

Aigik wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...
Everyone sees you using the end credits message as your only evidence dude.

Because its irrefutable. 

The people who wrote the story are telling the player in the most direct, blatant and unsubtle manner that the Reapers have been defeated. They literally put writing on your screen that tells you that Shepard beat the Reapers. 

You might as well argue that the title screen saying 'Mass Effect 3' is a lie.

Please, explain the final scene of Shepard waking up in concrete rubble on Earth to me, because I don't get it.

He's waking up from a dream sequence that was attempted indoctrination, designed to fool the player as well as Shep. You wake up if you resist indoctrination, you see that fantasy of an ending if you don't.

[Worufu]

Other hints:

Shepard's renegade scars showing up after he gets hit by the Reaper beam weapon. They weren't there before. And they're on every playthrough, renegade and paragon, amirite?

You should do the right choice. The right choice. The Right. Right. IT'S ON THE RIGHT

Plus, swapping the characters' color palettes. Destruction, always considered to be Paragon, favoured by Anderson, is suddenly red. While every act of destructing Reapers and Reaper tech was in Paragon Blue. Why the change now? And TIM as a Paragon, really?

Your surroundings after waking up from the beam hit look completely different. Ther should be ruins behind you. And I checked, trust me, I checked. And there's absolutely no trace of the two, small trees behind you in the sequence before you getting up. Plus, those trees look very similar to the trees in your dream sequences when Shep is sleeping.

Anderson as your subconsciousness, fighting the indoctrination? That's actually speculation, though.

Did anyone think that just after Anderson's death, when they're sitting, Shepard's voice had some sort of a strange echo to it? It didn't sound like it was coming from his lips, especially that (IDK if that's not just bad facial animation) he barely moves his mouth. And he says, take notice, 'I don't know'. He doesn't know what?

You should take notice of the Space Kid, or whatever we call him. In Destruction ending he dissappears immediately. We clearly see that he just vanishes. But, in the Control ending, he's standing there, watching for a bit. With a close-up on his face. And while it's hard to see his facial features, I think I see a smirk there. Then he vanishes. Strange, isn't it? More. In the Synthesis ending, he's standing there, in the background. The whole time. He doesn't dissappear. He is just watching.

[Candidate 88766]

Aigik wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...
Everyone sees you using the end credits message as your only evidence dude.

Because its irrefutable. 

The people who wrote the story are telling the player in the most direct, blatant and unsubtle manner that the Reapers have been defeated. They literally put writing on your screen that tells you that Shepard beat the Reapers. 

You might as well argue that the title screen saying 'Mass Effect 3' is a lie.

Please, explain the final scene of Shepard waking up in concrete rubble on Earth to me, because I don't get it.

A massive plot hole.

[XIXmaximus]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...
Everyone sees you using the end credits message as your only evidence dude.

Because its irrefutable. 

The people who wrote the story are telling the player in the most direct, blatant and unsubtle manner that the Reapers have been defeated. They literally put writing on your screen that tells you that Shepard beat the Reapers. 

You might as well argue that the title screen saying 'Mass Effect 3' is a lie.

You are conveniently leaving out the last part of the "irrefutable message" that you are hiding behind......"now you can continue to build your legend through further gameplay and DLC"......you say your message is irrefutable.....so refute that last part that you leave out.

Bioware has said that there will be DLC that occurs during the course of the story. The 'legend' of Shepard is the story in its entirety, and so DLC that takes place before the end still expands on his legend. 

"during the course of the story" meaning that the DLC is before the end off the story....meaning the coming DLC COULD be the conclusion everyone is talking about.........you can talk in circles and troll all day dude, its obvious to see lol.

[Candidate 88766]

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...
Everyone sees you using the end credits message as your only evidence dude.

Because its irrefutable. 

The people who wrote the story are telling the player in the most direct, blatant and unsubtle manner that the Reapers have been defeated. They literally put writing on your screen that tells you that Shepard beat the Reapers. 

You might as well argue that the title screen saying 'Mass Effect 3' is a lie.

You are conveniently leaving out the last part of the "irrefutable message" that you are hiding behind......"now you can continue to build your legend through further gameplay and DLC"......you say your message is irrefutable.....so refute that last part that you leave out.

Bioware has said that there will be DLC that occurs during the course of the story. The 'legend' of Shepard is the story in its entirety, and so DLC that takes place before the end still expands on his legend. 

"during the course of the story" meaning that the DLC is before the end off the story....meaning the coming DLC COULD be the conclusion everyone is talking about.........you can talk in circles and troll all day dude, its obvious to see lol.

Yes, it could. Just like it could take place during the main course of ME3. That doesn't disprove the ending message.

And I'm trying to discuss this in a civil manner, yet you insist on calling me a 'troll' and 'simple-minded'. Charming. Personal insults are against the forum regulations now, so I'd stop if I were you.

[balance5050]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Aigik wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...
Everyone sees you using the end credits message as your only evidence dude.

Because its irrefutable. 

The people who wrote the story are telling the player in the most direct, blatant and unsubtle manner that the Reapers have been defeated. They literally put writing on your screen that tells you that Shepard beat the Reapers. 

You might as well argue that the title screen saying 'Mass Effect 3' is a lie.

Please, explain the final scene of Shepard waking up in concrete rubble on Earth to me, because I don't get it.

A massive plot hole.

A plot hole? you obviously haven't been payng attention.

[Candidate 88766]

balance5050 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Aigik wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...
Everyone sees you using the end credits message as your only evidence dude.

Because its irrefutable. 

The people who wrote the story are telling the player in the most direct, blatant and unsubtle manner that the Reapers have been defeated. They literally put writing on your screen that tells you that Shepard beat the Reapers. 

You might as well argue that the title screen saying 'Mass Effect 3' is a lie.

Please, explain the final scene of Shepard waking up in concrete rubble on Earth to me, because I don't get it.

A massive plot hole.

A plot hole? you obviously haven't been payng attention.

Shepard being indoctrinated contradicts what the game directly tells the player, and the cutscene seems to show Shepard on Earth despite being in an explosion on the Citadel. Either of which can be considered a raher large plothole.

[SolonTheWhite]

hex23 wrote...

SolonTheWhite wrote...

If the ending really is Indoctrinations then it was just bad writing on bioware's part pure and simple. For them to create an ending that requires multiple layers of inception to make sense of it all is just stupid. If it was indoctrination then they should have made that clear and provided closure for the choice you made. But to just end it the way they did and hope the community just figures it out is stupid. That is why most people are convinced the ending is just filled with plot holes.

It's not stupid. It's brilliant really. Taken literally the end of the game requires "multiple layers of inception". You have to do some serious mental gymnastics for it to make any sense.

If he's indoctrinated it doesn't have to make sense because it's not real.

Hell, I think it's impressive they gave their fan base enough credit to figure this stuff out on their own. It reminds me of the gun/plant scene from "Breaking Bad" season 4.

No, that is not good story writting then. The Mass Effect series has never been about peeling back layers of inception to get to the truth. If they wanted to make that ending then they should have made that game. Mass Effect has never been about that and if the indoctirnation theory is true then it was tacked on at the last minute.

If the indoctrination theory is in fact how bioware intended it then they have just slaped the entire Mass Effect legacy and community in the face. I fear the day when it becomes OK for a game developer to cut the game short of the ending only to charge them to buy DLC later to unlock the "true" ending.

[SouperTrooper]

The more I read about the indoctrination theory the more it seems plausible that this is an intentional move designed to sell more DLC, in which case they have officially jumped the shark imo. ME 3 should have been the conclusion of the reaper arc, not some DLC. I can't think of any developer to date that has pulled this kind of stunt on its customers.
1. Promise your devoted fan base a conclusion to an epic tale 5 years in the making
2. Make a fake, nonsensical ending leaving not shred of satisfaction.
3. Then hit people up a month later asking for more $$$ if they want to really see the conclusion that was promised.
That's just pathetic.

What kills me is that if this is all truly about money, and not just the result of some major kool aid sipping-binge BW went on, then there was so much else they could have based the DLC on post reapers. Krogan clan wars, continuing tensions between Geth/Quarians, Left over Cerberus cells out to hinder the alliance's rebuilding efforts, return of the Rachni as a threat, Salarians trying to screw the Krogans again etc etc. This is such a rich universe and there are so many outstanding issues even after the reapers are defeated that Bioware could have created a ton of post-game DLC to continue the story or even a 4th game. Personally I would have paid for DLC like that or a 4th game. However, as it stands now, most likely the last BW game I'm paying for is this DLC we are all hoping for which properly concludes the reaper arc. After that I am going to vote with my dollars and stay away, probably even if the DLC is free which I sincerely doubt.

[CRISIS1717]

I didn't see any proof at all, only wishful thinking.

[balance5050]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...
Everyone sees you using the end credits message as your only evidence dude.

Because its irrefutable. 

The people who wrote the story are telling the player in the most direct, blatant and unsubtle manner that the Reapers have been defeated. They literally put writing on your screen that tells you that Shepard beat the Reapers. 

You might as well argue that the title screen saying 'Mass Effect 3' is a lie.

You are conveniently leaving out the last part of the "irrefutable message" that you are hiding behind......"now you can continue to build your legend through further gameplay and DLC"......you say your message is irrefutable.....so refute that last part that you leave out.

Bioware has said that there will be DLC that occurs during the course of the story. The 'legend' of Shepard is the story in its entirety, and so DLC that takes place before the end still expands on his legend. 

"during the course of the story" meaning that the DLC is before the end off the story....meaning the coming DLC COULD be the conclusion everyone is talking about.........you can talk in circles and troll all day dude, its obvious to see lol.

Yes, it could. Just like it could take place during the main course of ME3. That doesn't disprove the ending message.

And I'm trying to discuss this in a civil manner, yet you insist on calling me a 'troll' and 'simple-minded'. Charming. Personal insults are against the forum regulations now, so I'd stop if I were you.

So the ending message proves nothing. THANK YOU! you can now try to find another peice of trivial "evidence" against the indoctrination theory that we'll shut down/disprove or you can wake up and smell the reapers are still flying above your  unconscious body.

[XIXmaximus]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...
Everyone sees you using the end credits message as your only evidence dude.

Because its irrefutable. 

The people who wrote the story are telling the player in the most direct, blatant and unsubtle manner that the Reapers have been defeated. They literally put writing on your screen that tells you that Shepard beat the Reapers. 

You might as well argue that the title screen saying 'Mass Effect 3' is a lie.

You are conveniently leaving out the last part of the "irrefutable message" that you are hiding behind......"now you can continue to build your legend through further gameplay and DLC"......you say your message is irrefutable.....so refute that last part that you leave out.

Bioware has said that there will be DLC that occurs during the course of the story. The 'legend' of Shepard is the story in its entirety, and so DLC that takes place before the end still expands on his legend. 

"during the course of the story" meaning that the DLC is before the end off the story....meaning the coming DLC COULD be the conclusion everyone is talking about.........you can talk in circles and troll all day dude, its obvious to see lol.

Yes, it could. Just like it could take place during the main course of ME3. That doesn't disprove the ending message.

And I'm trying to discuss this in a civil manner, yet you insist on calling me a 'troll' and 'simple-minded'. Charming. Personal insults are against the forum regulations now, so I'd stop if I were you.

I'm only stating the obvious man....you come to a forum thread, speaking against the general public, and you keep repeating your same cyclical points over and over.  You are trolling.  And no matter how many people try to explain to you in a civil manner what our points are, you continue to refute them in a cyclical (troll) manner ie: hot fire is hot.....that is your entire argument structure. no forum mod would deny what you are dying because it is obvious.

Modifié par XIXmaximus, 13 mars 2012 - 01:35 .

[Candidate 88766]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

I didn't see any proof at all, only wishful thinking.

While there's no actual proof, even i will admit that there are some signs that kind of point towards it. The game directly contradicts the theory, but there are some things about the endings that seem really odd.

I just don't understand why people would want to believe it. Believing that the true ending of ME3 isn't in the game at the moment seems far worse than simply accepting the current endings as they are, copious warts and all.

[balance5050]

SolonTheWhite wrote...

hex23 wrote...

SolonTheWhite wrote...

If the ending really is Indoctrinations then it was just bad writing on bioware's part pure and simple. For them to create an ending that requires multiple layers of inception to make sense of it all is just stupid. If it was indoctrination then they should have made that clear and provided closure for the choice you made. But to just end it the way they did and hope the community just figures it out is stupid. That is why most people are convinced the ending is just filled with plot holes.

It's not stupid. It's brilliant really. Taken literally the end of the game requires "multiple layers of inception". You have to do some serious mental gymnastics for it to make any sense.

If he's indoctrinated it doesn't have to make sense because it's not real.

Hell, I think it's impressive they gave their fan base enough credit to figure this stuff out on their own. It reminds me of the gun/plant scene from "Breaking Bad" season 4.

No, that is not good story writting then. The Mass Effect series has never been about peeling back layers of inception to get to the truth. If they wanted to make that ending then they should have made that game. Mass Effect has never been about that and if the indoctirnation theory is true then it was tacked on at the last minute.

If the indoctrination theory is in fact how bioware intended it then they have just slaped the entire Mass Effect legacy and community in the face. I fear the day when it becomes OK for a game developer to cut the game short of the ending only to charge them to buy DLC later to unlock the "true" ending.

The endings as are are a slap, the theory will atleast somewhat save bioware's reputation.

Modifié par balance5050, 13 mars 2012 - 01:37 .

[XIXmaximus]

SolonTheWhite wrote...

hex23 wrote...

SolonTheWhite wrote...

If the ending really is Indoctrinations then it was just bad writing on bioware's part pure and simple. For them to create an ending that requires multiple layers of inception to make sense of it all is just stupid. If it was indoctrination then they should have made that clear and provided closure for the choice you made. But to just end it the way they did and hope the community just figures it out is stupid. That is why most people are convinced the ending is just filled with plot holes.

It's not stupid. It's brilliant really. Taken literally the end of the game requires "multiple layers of inception". You have to do some serious mental gymnastics for it to make any sense.

If he's indoctrinated it doesn't have to make sense because it's not real.

Hell, I think it's impressive they gave their fan base enough credit to figure this stuff out on their own. It reminds me of the gun/plant scene from "Breaking Bad" season 4.

No, that is not good story writting then. The Mass Effect series has never been about peeling back layers of inception to get to the truth. If they wanted to make that ending then they should have made that game. Mass Effect has never been about that and if the indoctirnation theory is true then it was tacked on at the last minute.

If the indoctrination theory is in fact how bioware intended it then they have just slaped the entire Mass Effect legacy and community in the face. I fear the day when it becomes OK for a game developer to cut the game short of the ending only to charge them to buy DLC later to unlock the "true" ending.

You are asserting accusations that you don't know will happen.....if it is so sick and unbelievable that Bioware would charge us for the final ending DLC...then why force yourself to keep believing it? For god sakes is it not possible that BW would give it to us for free?

[Candidate 88766]

XIXmaximus wrote...

I'm only stating the obvious man....you come to a forum thread, speaking against the general public, and you keep repeating your same cyclical points over and over.  You are trolling.  And no matter how many people try to explain to you in a civil manner what our points are, you continue to refute them in a cyclical (troll) manner ie: hot fire is hot.....that is your entire argument structure. no forum mod would deny what you are dying because it is obvious.

Threads are for discussion of topics, both for and against their subject matter. 

And I keep repeating my point because its correct. 

If the writers for the game came to your house and, upon your completion, told you that Shepard has defeated the Reapers, you'd believe them.

That isn't possible, so they've placed a message in the game that tells you as much. 

Trolling is intended to stir up trouble. I'm trying to do the opposite - people here are starting to become adamant that this theory is right and that a DLC is on the way. I've provided evidence from the game that says this is wrong, in the hope that people won't get as angry over this as they did with the lack of VS DLC for ME2 if there is no ending DLC.

There may well be an ending DLC. I doubt it, but there might not be. All I'm saying is that the theory put forward in this thread relies on the game lying directly to the player, which is nonsensical.



I believe I'm in agreement with you that the endings as they are are not good enough. Where we disagree is that this theory is true. I can't imagine I'm going to sway you; I'm simply trying to understand why you're so determined to believe this particular theory despite the game contradicting it.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 13 mars 2012 - 01:45 .

[SolonTheWhite]

I can honestly see where the indoctrination theory people are coming from. But this theory does not solve the problem. It only replaces it with a new one. We are now forced to choose between two explanations. Either Bioware is a group of money hungry game developers and they are just waiting to charge us for the "real" ending, or they are horrible writers and gave us an ending filled with plot holes and no closure. The reason people are so passionate about this is because both of these explanations go against our preconceived notions about what Bioware really stood for.......

[Candidate 88766]

balance5050 wrote...
So the ending message proves nothing. THANK YOU! you can now try to find another peice of trivial "evidence" against the indoctrination theory that we'll shut down/disprove or you can wake up and smell the reapers are still flying above your  unconscious body.

What do you mean it proves nothing?

Bioware literally put writing on your screen telling you that Shepard beat the Reapers.

[Sublyminal]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
So the ending message proves nothing. THANK YOU! you can now try to find another peice of trivial "evidence" against the indoctrination theory that we'll shut down/disprove or you can wake up and smell the reapers are still flying above your  unconscious body.

What do you mean it proves nothing?

Bioware literally put writing on your screen telling you that Shepard beat the Reapers.

And to buy MORE DLC.

[Candidate 88766]

Sublyminal wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
So the ending message proves nothing. THANK YOU! you can now try to find another peice of trivial "evidence" against the indoctrination theory that we'll shut down/disprove or you can wake up and smell the reapers are still flying above your  unconscious body.

What do you mean it proves nothing?

Bioware literally put writing on your screen telling you that Shepard beat the Reapers.

And to buy MORE DLC.

We already knew DLC was on the way from interviews with Bioware. The fact that the message confirms this does not suddenly disprove it. 

[XIXmaximus]

SolonTheWhite wrote...

I can honestly see where the indoctrination theory people are coming from. But this theory does not solve the problem. It only replaces it with a new one. We are now forced to choose between two explanations. Either Bioware is a group of money hungry game developers and they are just waiting to charge us for the "real" ending, or they are horrible writers and gave us an ending filled with plot holes and no closure. The reason people are so passionate about this is because both of these explanations go against our preconceived notions about what Bioware really stood for.......

The FACT is that BW has not YET charged us for ending DLC.....nor have they stated that they will.  You have to understand bud, this theory isn't a new tire.....its a high quality patch.  Just like when a TV network gives you the rundown of what happens...then they show you what actually happens.  We are not trying to tell bioware to REMOVE the current endings and replace them with this theory....we are trying to confirm that, with all the epirical evidence that is obvious, whether or not they PLAN on doing so.

[XIXmaximus]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
So the ending message proves nothing. THANK YOU! you can now try to find another peice of trivial "evidence" against the indoctrination theory that we'll shut down/disprove or you can wake up and smell the reapers are still flying above your  unconscious body.

What do you mean it proves nothing?

Bioware literally put writing on your screen telling you that Shepard beat the Reapers.

And to buy MORE DLC.

We already knew DLC was on the way from interviews with Bioware. The fact that the message confirms this does not suddenly disprove it. 

I am utteerly amazed at how you are still able to effectively type after talking in circles for so long man.  inconclusive cliffhangar + "DLC incoming" message probably means that they plan on concluding the cliffhangar.....I can't get passed how you don't understand that. And IDK why you keep trying to disprove a group of people who want to occupy themselves with a positive idea until we find out for sure.

Modifié par XIXmaximus, 13 mars 2012 - 01:50 .

[Fushine]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
So the ending message proves nothing. THANK YOU! you can now try to find another peice of trivial "evidence" against the indoctrination theory that we'll shut down/disprove or you can wake up and smell the reapers are still flying above your  unconscious body.

What do you mean it proves nothing?

Bioware literally put writing on your screen telling you that Shepard beat the Reapers.

They didn't say you beat them, only said that you are a legend in the end. Being legend or becoming legend can be interpreted by many ways. Like Shepard uniting the galaxy to fight the reapers (focus on uniting) he was a legend to the races of the galaxy because he accomplished things that was assumed impossible. Don't forget Liara spread "storage VI pc" on lots of planets if they failed to stop the Reapers. In that "pc" he is mentioned as a legend a hero as well.

[SolonTheWhite]

XIXmaximus wrote...

SolonTheWhite wrote...

I can honestly see where the indoctrination theory people are coming from. But this theory does not solve the problem. It only replaces it with a new one. We are now forced to choose between two explanations. Either Bioware is a group of money hungry game developers and they are just waiting to charge us for the "real" ending, or they are horrible writers and gave us an ending filled with plot holes and no closure. The reason people are so passionate about this is because both of these explanations go against our preconceived notions about what Bioware really stood for.......

The FACT is that BW has not YET charged us for ending DLC.....nor have they stated that they will.  You have to understand bud, this theory isn't a new tire.....its a high quality patch.  Just like when a TV network gives you the rundown of what happens...then they show you what actually happens.  We are not trying to tell bioware to REMOVE the current endings and replace them with this theory....we are trying to confirm that, with all the epirical evidence that is obvious, whether or not they PLAN on doing so.

The problerm with that is that this is NOT an MMO. You simply do not do that with a 60$ game. And you certanly do not plan on doing that and not tell anyone. If they honestly thought that it would be ok to withhold the "true" ending and wait to release it later in a patch then they must have a couple of idiot running their PR department. This was possibly the most hyped and anticipated game of the decade. I cannot imagine that Bioware could mishandle the situation so poorly.

Modifié par SolonTheWhite, 13 mars 2012 - 01:51 .