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[XIXmaximus]

SolonTheWhite wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

SolonTheWhite wrote...

I can honestly see where the indoctrination theory people are coming from. But this theory does not solve the problem. It only replaces it with a new one. We are now forced to choose between two explanations. Either Bioware is a group of money hungry game developers and they are just waiting to charge us for the "real" ending, or they are horrible writers and gave us an ending filled with plot holes and no closure. The reason people are so passionate about this is because both of these explanations go against our preconceived notions about what Bioware really stood for.......

The FACT is that BW has not YET charged us for ending DLC.....nor have they stated that they will.  You have to understand bud, this theory isn't a new tire.....its a high quality patch.  Just like when a TV network gives you the rundown of what happens...then they show you what actually happens.  We are not trying to tell bioware to REMOVE the current endings and replace them with this theory....we are trying to confirm that, with all the epirical evidence that is obvious, whether or not they PLAN on doing so.

The problerm with that is that this is NOT an MMO. You simply do not do that with a 60$ game. And you certanly do not plan on doing that and not tell anyone. If they honestly thought that it would be ok to withhold the "true" ending and wait to release it later in a patch then they must have a couple of idiot running their PR department. This was the possible the most hyped and anticipated game of the decade. I cannot imagine that Bioware could mishandle the situation so poorly.

and what better way to hype it EVEN MORE by leaving bread crumbs for people to theorycraft and talk about until they surprise us with FREE dlc later to cause us to see the story for what it really is.  Are we wrong for wanting tthis?

[Candidate 88766]

Fushine wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
So the ending message proves nothing. THANK YOU! you can now try to find another peice of trivial "evidence" against the indoctrination theory that we'll shut down/disprove or you can wake up and smell the reapers are still flying above your  unconscious body.

What do you mean it proves nothing?

Bioware literally put writing on your screen telling you that Shepard beat the Reapers.

They didn't say you beat them, only said that you are a legend in the end. Being legend or becoming legend can be interpreted by many ways. Like Shepard uniting the galaxy to fight the reapers (focus on uniting) he was a legend to the races of the galaxy because he accomplished things that was assumed impossible. Don't forget Liara spread "storage VI pc" on lots of planets if they failed to stop the Reapers. In that "pc" he is mentioned as a legend a hero as well.

The exact worded is 'ended the Reaper threat'. If Shepard became indoctrinated, he wouldn't have ended the threat. 

[Fushine]

SolonTheWhite wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

SolonTheWhite wrote...

I can honestly see where the indoctrination theory people are coming from. But this theory does not solve the problem. It only replaces it with a new one. We are now forced to choose between two explanations. Either Bioware is a group of money hungry game developers and they are just waiting to charge us for the "real" ending, or they are horrible writers and gave us an ending filled with plot holes and no closure. The reason people are so passionate about this is because both of these explanations go against our preconceived notions about what Bioware really stood for.......

The FACT is that BW has not YET charged us for ending DLC.....nor have they stated that they will.  You have to understand bud, this theory isn't a new tire.....its a high quality patch.  Just like when a TV network gives you the rundown of what happens...then they show you what actually happens.  We are not trying to tell bioware to REMOVE the current endings and replace them with this theory....we are trying to confirm that, with all the epirical evidence that is obvious, whether or not they PLAN on doing so.

The problerm with that is that this is NOT an MMO. You simply do not do that with a 60$ game. And you certanly do not plan on doing that and not tell anyone. If they honestly thought that it would be ok to withhold the "true" ending and wait to release it later in a patch then they must have a couple of idiot running their PR department. This was the possible the most hyped and anticipated game of the decade. I cannot imagine that Bioware could mishandle the situation so poorly.

It might be possible to be the most epic and mind****'d PR stunt ever due to the lot of extra unofficial attention(mostly negative so far) ME gets but mainstream claims its the minority who are vocal. but attention without investing direct money is actually the best way of doing promotion. Because most of the people will refute the bad endings etc.  as mere rumor untill they found out by playing it and then its already too late sneaky bastards. 
Though I sincerely do not believe Bioware will screw us up. I found alot of hints and I remember that there was a talk last year about ME3 that indoctrination will play a big role in determination of your path of Shepard. (Sorry can't find the source... It must be on BSN or somewhere mentioned in article damn) 

[v0rt3x22]

I made a similar analogy in my review (http://social.biowar...5/index/9837136) - incl. the 'Catalyst' and the meaning behind it.

[Candidate 88766]

XIXmaximus wrote...

I am utteerly amazed at how you are still able to effectively type after talking in circles for so long man.  inconclusive cliffhangar + "DLC incoming" message probably means that they plan on concluding the cliffhangar.....I can't get passed how you don't understand that. And IDK why you keep trying to disprove a group of people who want to occupy themselves with a positive idea until we find out for sure.

There seems to be a fundamental communication error here.

I'm going in circles because I'm right - the game directly states that the Reaper threat is ended, within the content already included with ME3, regardless of which ending you chose. You can't simply dismiss what the game so directly tells you.

And the reason I'm trying to disprove it is because otherwise people will become convinced that this DLC is on the way, and will be mad if it doesn't. There might be post-ending DLC, but chances are it won't involve this indoctrination theory - that would contradict what the game has told us.

Neither of us seem to like the endings as they are. You believe that ending DLC may come. It may do, I'm not denying that, but it won't be DLC of this theory.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 13 mars 2012 - 01:58 .

[SolonTheWhite]

XIXmaximus wrote...

SolonTheWhite wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

SolonTheWhite wrote...

I can honestly see where the indoctrination theory people are coming from. But this theory does not solve the problem. It only replaces it with a new one. We are now forced to choose between two explanations. Either Bioware is a group of money hungry game developers and they are just waiting to charge us for the "real" ending, or they are horrible writers and gave us an ending filled with plot holes and no closure. The reason people are so passionate about this is because both of these explanations go against our preconceived notions about what Bioware really stood for.......

The FACT is that BW has not YET charged us for ending DLC.....nor have they stated that they will.  You have to understand bud, this theory isn't a new tire.....its a high quality patch.  Just like when a TV network gives you the rundown of what happens...then they show you what actually happens.  We are not trying to tell bioware to REMOVE the current endings and replace them with this theory....we are trying to confirm that, with all the epirical evidence that is obvious, whether or not they PLAN on doing so.

The problerm with that is that this is NOT an MMO. You simply do not do that with a 60$ game. And you certanly do not plan on doing that and not tell anyone. If they honestly thought that it would be ok to withhold the "true" ending and wait to release it later in a patch then they must have a couple of idiot running their PR department. This was the possible the most hyped and anticipated game of the decade. I cannot imagine that Bioware could mishandle the situation so poorly.

and what better way to hype it EVEN MORE by leaving bread crumbs for people to theorycraft and talk about until they surprise us with FREE dlc later to cause us to see the story for what it really is.  Are we wrong for wanting tthis?

I can see why you would want it to be true, but wanting it to be true and it actualy being true are two different things. Bioware and EA are massive million dollar companies. I cannot see them taking this big a gamble with their biggest series. I simply cannot accept that a company as big as Bioware and EA would plan on releasing the ending later in a patch without telling anyone and not expect community backlash. There had to be someone in that room telling them this was not a good idea. On a personal level maybe I want to belive you. I want bioware to jump out of the closet and yell SURPRISE!! But my better judgment just wont let me believe.

[Fushine]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Fushine wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
So the ending message proves nothing. THANK YOU! you can now try to find another peice of trivial "evidence" against the indoctrination theory that we'll shut down/disprove or you can wake up and smell the reapers are still flying above your  unconscious body.

What do you mean it proves nothing?

Bioware literally put writing on your screen telling you that Shepard beat the Reapers.

They didn't say you beat them, only said that you are a legend in the end. Being legend or becoming legend can be interpreted by many ways. Like Shepard uniting the galaxy to fight the reapers (focus on uniting) he was a legend to the races of the galaxy because he accomplished things that was assumed impossible. Don't forget Liara spread "storage VI pc" on lots of planets if they failed to stop the Reapers. In that "pc" he is mentioned as a legend a hero as well.

The exact worded is 'ended the Reaper threat'. If Shepard became indoctrinated, he wouldn't have ended the threat. 

You ended the threat but does not mean you destroyed the reapers. If you are indoctrinated you think you won. if you choose destroy you wake up and took a breath lying in a pile of rubble. and the fight goes on ofc because all that **** didn't happen

[Rencor2k]

I played Arrival today, and it made me think that u already gets Indoctrinated when u come to the reaper artifact.. something happens.. not just like with the beacons in me1.. maybe it all starts there?

[XIXmaximus]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
So the ending message proves nothing. THANK YOU! you can now try to find another peice of trivial "evidence" against the indoctrination theory that we'll shut down/disprove or you can wake up and smell the reapers are still flying above your  unconscious body.

What do you mean it proves nothing?

Bioware literally put writing on your screen telling you that Shepard beat the Reapers.

And to buy MORE DLC.

We already knew DLC was on the way from interviews with Bioware. The fact that the message confirms this does not suddenly disprove it. 

I am utteerly amazed at how you are still able to effectively type after talking in circles for so long man.  inconclusive cliffhangar + "DLC incoming" message probably means that they plan on concluding the cliffhangar.....I can't get passed how you don't understand that. And IDK why you keep trying to disprove a group of people who want to occupy themselves with a positive idea until we find out for sure.

There seems to be a fundamental communication error here.

I'm going in circles because I'm right - the game directly states that the Reaper threat is ended, within the content already included with ME3, regardless of which ending you chose. 

And the reason I'm trying to disprove it is because otherwise people will become convinced that this DLC is on the way, and will be mad if it doesn't. There might be post-ending DLC, but chances are it won't involve this indoctrination theory - that would contradict what the game has told us.

noone knows for sure dude.....which means you AREN'T completely right until BW either comes out with it....or doesn't.  this thread is about a THEORY.  A theory that we are simply trying to justify our THOUGHT PROCESSES on how we came up with it.  This is why I mentioned "troll" earlier.  You are missing the entire point on puprpose, for the sake of arguing.  this thread is about THEORY, not cold hard FACTS.  we are all SPECULATING until we know for sure.  That is why I am continually debating with you on this....because I'm trying to clairfy to you that YOU are misunderstanding here.  Theory has been said more than i can count  on this thread....and its on our side of the argument.  You are the only one who is spouting "im right" here....and its disruptive.

[Candidate 88766]

Fushine wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Fushine wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
So the ending message proves nothing. THANK YOU! you can now try to find another peice of trivial "evidence" against the indoctrination theory that we'll shut down/disprove or you can wake up and smell the reapers are still flying above your  unconscious body.

What do you mean it proves nothing?

Bioware literally put writing on your screen telling you that Shepard beat the Reapers.

They didn't say you beat them, only said that you are a legend in the end. Being legend or becoming legend can be interpreted by many ways. Like Shepard uniting the galaxy to fight the reapers (focus on uniting) he was a legend to the races of the galaxy because he accomplished things that was assumed impossible. Don't forget Liara spread "storage VI pc" on lots of planets if they failed to stop the Reapers. In that "pc" he is mentioned as a legend a hero as well.

The exact worded is 'ended the Reaper threat'. If Shepard became indoctrinated, he wouldn't have ended the threat. 

You ended the threat but does not mean you destroyed the reapers. If you are indoctrinated you think you won. if you choose destroy you wake up and took a breath lying in a pile of rubble. and the fight goes on ofc because all that **** didn't happen

Shepard believing he has ended the reaper threat is not the same as Shepard ending the reaper threat.

And in both of the endings you put forward, the Reaper threat is not ended. In one of them, Shepard fails. In the other, the story ends on a cliffhanger. If Bioware is telling us that Shepard wakes up from indoctrination and then goes on to defeat the Reapers, why not show us that? Or allow us to play that for ourselves? Its silly to believe that Bioware would actually make an ending where Shepard overcomes indoctrination, and then cut off the end before allowing us the satisfaction of ending the Reaper threat for ourselves.

[XIXmaximus]

SolonTheWhite wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

SolonTheWhite wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

SolonTheWhite wrote...

I can honestly see where the indoctrination theory people are coming from. But this theory does not solve the problem. It only replaces it with a new one. We are now forced to choose between two explanations. Either Bioware is a group of money hungry game developers and they are just waiting to charge us for the "real" ending, or they are horrible writers and gave us an ending filled with plot holes and no closure. The reason people are so passionate about this is because both of these explanations go against our preconceived notions about what Bioware really stood for.......

The FACT is that BW has not YET charged us for ending DLC.....nor have they stated that they will.  You have to understand bud, this theory isn't a new tire.....its a high quality patch.  Just like when a TV network gives you the rundown of what happens...then they show you what actually happens.  We are not trying to tell bioware to REMOVE the current endings and replace them with this theory....we are trying to confirm that, with all the epirical evidence that is obvious, whether or not they PLAN on doing so.

The problerm with that is that this is NOT an MMO. You simply do not do that with a 60$ game. And you certanly do not plan on doing that and not tell anyone. If they honestly thought that it would be ok to withhold the "true" ending and wait to release it later in a patch then they must have a couple of idiot running their PR department. This was the possible the most hyped and anticipated game of the decade. I cannot imagine that Bioware could mishandle the situation so poorly.

and what better way to hype it EVEN MORE by leaving bread crumbs for people to theorycraft and talk about until they surprise us with FREE dlc later to cause us to see the story for what it really is.  Are we wrong for wanting tthis?

I can see why you would want it to be true, but wanting it to be true and it actualy being true are two different things. Bioware and EA are massive million dollar companies. I cannot see them taking this big a gamble with their biggest series. I simply cannot accept that a company as big as Bioware and EA would plan on releasing the ending later in a patch without telling anyone and not expect community backlash. There had to be someone in that room telling them this was not a good idea. On a personal level maybe I want to belive you. I want bioware to jump out of the closet and yell SURPRISE!! But my better judgment just wont let me believe.

this is all fair to say.....but the easter eggs are there.  And the easter eggs just so happen to fit the holes like a glove....this is all we are saying.  we aren't saying that BW said they are doing this and that they WILL do this.  We are merely holding up shapes that APPEAR to fit the alloted holes, and hoping that it was the intended agenda

[Candidate 88766]

XIXmaximus wrote...

noone knows for sure dude.....which means you AREN'T completely right until BW either comes out with it....or doesn't.  this thread is about a THEORY.  A theory that we are simply trying to justify our THOUGHT PROCESSES on how we came up with it.  This is why I mentioned "troll" earlier.  You are missing the entire point on puprpose, for the sake of arguing.  this thread is about THEORY, not cold hard FACTS.  we are all SPECULATING until we know for sure.  That is why I am continually debating with you on this....because I'm trying to clairfy to you that YOU are misunderstanding here.  Theory has been said more than i can count  on this thread....and its on our side of the argument.  You are the only one who is spouting "im right" here....and its disruptive.

If you look at your earlier posts, you were saying that there were actual facts to back this theory up.

I was showing that this is wrong. Thats not trolling - that is how a discussion works.

No you're saying that it is simply a theory. I have no problem with that. I think it is an interesting theory, at least as an idea. It contradicts what the game says, and provides little closure, but on a fundamental level the idea of Shepard becoming indoctrinated is a good one and is something I would've loved ot have been included in the game.

But thats all it is - a theory. It goes against what the game says. As disruptive as you may find what I'm saying, I'm merely passing on what the game itself says.

I have no problem with people believing this theory. People who claim this theory is actually correct are going against what the game says, but if they want to imagine its true then I have no problem.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 13 mars 2012 - 02:07 .

[XIXmaximus]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Fushine wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Fushine wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
So the ending message proves nothing. THANK YOU! you can now try to find another peice of trivial "evidence" against the indoctrination theory that we'll shut down/disprove or you can wake up and smell the reapers are still flying above your  unconscious body.

What do you mean it proves nothing?

Bioware literally put writing on your screen telling you that Shepard beat the Reapers.

They didn't say you beat them, only said that you are a legend in the end. Being legend or becoming legend can be interpreted by many ways. Like Shepard uniting the galaxy to fight the reapers (focus on uniting) he was a legend to the races of the galaxy because he accomplished things that was assumed impossible. Don't forget Liara spread "storage VI pc" on lots of planets if they failed to stop the Reapers. In that "pc" he is mentioned as a legend a hero as well.

The exact worded is 'ended the Reaper threat'. If Shepard became indoctrinated, he wouldn't have ended the threat. 

You ended the threat but does not mean you destroyed the reapers. If you are indoctrinated you think you won. if you choose destroy you wake up and took a breath lying in a pile of rubble. and the fight goes on ofc because all that **** didn't happen

Shepard believing he has ended the reaper threat is not the same as Shepard ending the reaper threat.

And in both of the endings you put forward, the Reaper threat is not ended. In one of them, Shepard fails. In the other, the story ends on a cliffhanger. If Bioware is telling us that Shepard wakes up from indoctrination and then goes on to defeat the Reapers, why not show us that? Or allow us to play that for ourselves? Its silly to believe that Bioware would actually make an ending where Shepard overcomes indoctrination, and then cut off the end before allowing us the satisfaction of ending the Reaper threat for ourselves.

Answer me this simple question canidate.....are we wrong for hoping for this until we find out whether or not it rings true?  Are we wrong for disecting the story, putting effort into trying to tie the ends together until we find out for a fact that it is untrue or true?  Are we wrong for doing that?  Have we offended you in some way for you to keep pressing the matter of Wrong and right?

[vanversive]

Anybody else think the song playing while god child speaks sound similiar to promise reprise from silent hill 2?

[Candidate 88766]

XIXmaximus wrote...

Answer me this simple question canidate.....are we wrong for hoping for this until we find out whether or not it rings true?  Are we wrong for disecting the story, putting effort into trying to tie the ends together until we find out for a fact that it is untrue or true?  Are we wrong for doing that?  Have we offended you in some way for you to keep pressing the matter of Wrong and right?

Are you wrong for those things?

No.

Were you wrong earlier for claiming this theory as fact and dismissing what the game itself said?

Yes.


I have no problem with you imagining what you want. Just don't claim it as fact and then have a go at me when I point out that its not.

I personally pretend that the Normandy crash doesn't happen. I can't prove this, and it contradicts the game, but I will pretend this is the case nonetheless. If you want to believe that Shepard is indoctrinated then by all means go for it - its your Shepard's story. Just don't claim it as fact and then get angry when someone proves that this isn't the case.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 13 mars 2012 - 02:11 .

[Lethys1]

This makes some sense.  I actually like this theory a lot, doesn't answer a lot of questions but definitely explains a hell of a lot more than what would be taken at face value.

I guess then the kid was lying when he said that TIM couldn't control us because "we already controlled him."

At the same time though, the game clearly wants you to choose synthesis.  I didn't get that option for whatever reason, I think I was like 40 points short or something ridiculous despite getting all the best possible results.  Not my fault Kasumi's quest is bugged since I tried to do it, and I don't want to waste my time scanning.

That may mean the kid was lying about other stuff too though, like perhaps not all synthetics are killed (geth, EDI).  What I hate is that the confusing nature of this game's ending leaves so much open for interpretation and re-doing, I wanted a decent ending that could maybe explain that without having to pay for one.  What a horrible business practice that would be if they make me pay to see the explanation.

[Candidate 88766]

Lethys1 wrote...

This makes some sense.  I actually like this theory a lot, doesn't answer a lot of questions but definitely explains a hell of a lot more than what would be taken at face value.

I guess then the kid was lying when he said that TIM couldn't control us because "we already controlled him."

At the same time though, the game clearly wants you to choose synthesis.  I didn't get that option for whatever reason, I think I was like 40 points short or something ridiculous despite getting all the best possible results.  Not my fault Kasumi's quest is bugged since I tried to do it, and I don't want to waste my time scanning.

That may mean the kid was lying about other stuff too though, like perhaps not all synthetics are killed (geth, EDI).  What I hate is that the confusing nature of this game's ending leaves so much open for interpretation and re-doing, I wanted a decent ending that could maybe explain that without having to pay for one.  What a horrible business practice that would be if they make me pay to see the explanation.

This is one of the main problems with it. That and the Normandy.

The idea of using the Relays to defeat the Reapers is brilliant imo. The actual manner in which they are destroyed is not - it is essentially waves of space magic.

I would've preferred the original dark energy storyline.

[XIXmaximus]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Answer me this simple question canidate.....are we wrong for hoping for this until we find out whether or not it rings true?  Are we wrong for disecting the story, putting effort into trying to tie the ends together until we find out for a fact that it is untrue or true?  Are we wrong for doing that?  Have we offended you in some way for you to keep pressing the matter of Wrong and right?

Are you wrong for those things?

No.

Were you wrong earlier for claiming this theory as fact and dismissing what the game itself said?

Yes.


I have no problem with you imagining what you want. Just don't claim it as fact and then have a go at me when I point out that its not.

I personally pretend that the Normandy crash doesn't happen. I can't prove this, and it contradicts the game, but I will pretend this is the case nonetheless. If you want to believe that Shepard is indoctrinated then by all means go for it - its your Shepard's story. Just don't claim it as fact and then get angry when someone proves that this isn't the case.

You misunderstood me bud, noone, me included.....were dismissing what the game said.........YOU are the one who came at US quoting what the game said, but left out a key part THAT THE GAME SAID, which drives us to believe this theory possible....."now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay and DLC"  You left this out, coveniently enough to support your point.  that LAST part of the end game message, is what leads us to feel that what we are theorizing can be true.  Yes, it says that Shep ended the reaper threat....it does not say that shep DESTROYED the reapers.  Shep "ended" the reaper threat on ME2, but it was not yet finished. <<<< THIS stuff, is the reason we still have hope that our theory could still ring true, and we will not know for sure until the given time has come for BW to let us know.  People are spouting this all over twitter, and other places.......but BW has YET to dismiss it.  You came to this thread, tthrowing right and wrong at nearly every person who was trying to actively suppor the idea.....that is where this whole snowball started.  You simply misunderstood.

[XIXmaximus]

why can't you just state your opinion, just like everyone else here, and stop trying to prove us wrong on something that NOONE knows what the end result will be simply for the fact that BW has yet to say yes or no to the entire subject.

[Candidate 88766]

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Answer me this simple question canidate.....are we wrong for hoping for this until we find out whether or not it rings true?  Are we wrong for disecting the story, putting effort into trying to tie the ends together until we find out for a fact that it is untrue or true?  Are we wrong for doing that?  Have we offended you in some way for you to keep pressing the matter of Wrong and right?

Are you wrong for those things?

No.

Were you wrong earlier for claiming this theory as fact and dismissing what the game itself said?

Yes.


I have no problem with you imagining what you want. Just don't claim it as fact and then have a go at me when I point out that its not.

I personally pretend that the Normandy crash doesn't happen. I can't prove this, and it contradicts the game, but I will pretend this is the case nonetheless. If you want to believe that Shepard is indoctrinated then by all means go for it - its your Shepard's story. Just don't claim it as fact and then get angry when someone proves that this isn't the case.

You misunderstood me bud, noone, me included.....were dismissing what the game said.........YOU are the one who came at US quoting what the game said, but left out a key part THAT THE GAME SAID, which drives us to believe this theory possible....."now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay and DLC"  You left this out, coveniently enough to support your point.  that LAST part of the end game message, is what leads us to feel that what we are theorizing can be true.  Yes, it says that Shep ended the reaper threat....it does not say that shep DESTROYED the reapers.  Shep "ended" the reaper threat on ME2, but it was not yet finished. <<<< THIS stuff, is the reason we still have hope that our theory could still ring true, and we will not know for sure until the given time has come for BW to let us know.  People are spouting this all over twitter, and other places.......but BW has YET to dismiss it.  You came to this thread, tthrowing right and wrong at nearly every person who was trying to actively suppor the idea.....that is where this whole snowball started.  You simply misunderstood.

I posted the entire image. I never left any of it out.

The message implies that post-end DLC is possible. I never denied this.

The message says that Shepard ends the Reaper threat, regardless of your ending choice. This is impossible if the indoctrination theory is true - the theory requires that two of the endings lead to Shepard failing and thus not ending the Reaper threat, and between a fan theory and what the writers put in the game, its clear which one is right.

Let us use an example. Lets say you picked control as your ending choice. You're saying that this is a lie, and that actually Shepard became indoctrinated and fell under the Reapers' control. However, the game then tells you that the Reaper threat was ended by Shepard. These two events cannot be true at the same time, and it is logical that what the game says is vastly more likely to be true than a fan theory, regardless of how interesting the theory may be.

We're just going to keep going in circles, and I need some sleep, so I'll leave on this note:

I have no problem with you believing this theory. I have no problem with you wanting it to be true. I have no problem with people discussing it. I just found it annoying that you were claiming that there was actual evidence for it and then got annoyed when I provided evidence that countered this.

[KaeserZen]

I support this theory and this video. I thought about something along these lines myself, but I would never have assumed indoctrination could be explaining this, and you make a pretty good case out of it.

It all felt dreamy and allegoric to me : the gorey first room, telling humans are used to build a Reaper while there are no "liquifying" pods around, the room atmosphere changing drastically... Anderson basically telling you what the world looks like before it happens in your eyes (ex: "this corridor isn't infinite", *ding* you can see the door).

[XIXmaximus]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Answer me this simple question canidate.....are we wrong for hoping for this until we find out whether or not it rings true?  Are we wrong for disecting the story, putting effort into trying to tie the ends together until we find out for a fact that it is untrue or true?  Are we wrong for doing that?  Have we offended you in some way for you to keep pressing the matter of Wrong and right?

Are you wrong for those things?

No.

Were you wrong earlier for claiming this theory as fact and dismissing what the game itself said?

Yes.


I have no problem with you imagining what you want. Just don't claim it as fact and then have a go at me when I point out that its not.

I personally pretend that the Normandy crash doesn't happen. I can't prove this, and it contradicts the game, but I will pretend this is the case nonetheless. If you want to believe that Shepard is indoctrinated then by all means go for it - its your Shepard's story. Just don't claim it as fact and then get angry when someone proves that this isn't the case.

You misunderstood me bud, noone, me included.....were dismissing what the game said.........YOU are the one who came at US quoting what the game said, but left out a key part THAT THE GAME SAID, which drives us to believe this theory possible....."now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay and DLC"  You left this out, coveniently enough to support your point.  that LAST part of the end game message, is what leads us to feel that what we are theorizing can be true.  Yes, it says that Shep ended the reaper threat....it does not say that shep DESTROYED the reapers.  Shep "ended" the reaper threat on ME2, but it was not yet finished. <<<< THIS stuff, is the reason we still have hope that our theory could still ring true, and we will not know for sure until the given time has come for BW to let us know.  People are spouting this all over twitter, and other places.......but BW has YET to dismiss it.  You came to this thread, tthrowing right and wrong at nearly every person who was trying to actively suppor the idea.....that is where this whole snowball started.  You simply misunderstood.

I posted the entire image. I never left any of it out.

The message implies that post-end DLC is possible. I never denied this.

The message says that Shepard ends the Reaper threat, regardless of your ending choice. This is impossible if the indoctrination theory is true - the theory requires that two of the endings lead to Shepard failing and thus not ending the Reaper threat, and between a fan theory and what the writers put in the game, its clear which one is right.

Let us use an example. Lets say you picked control as your ending choice. You're saying that this is a lie, and that actually Shepard became indoctrinated and fell under the Reapers' control. However, the game then tells you that the Reaper threat was ended by Shepard. These two events cannot be true at the same time, and it is logical that what the game says is vastly more likely to be true than a fan theory, regardless of how interesting the theory may be.

We're just going to keep going in circles, and I need some sleep, so I'll leave on this note:

I have no problem with you believing this theory. I have no problem with you wanting it to be true. I have no problem with people discussing it. I just found it annoying that you were claiming that there was actual evidence for it and then got annoyed when I provided evidence that countered this.

You know what, im just gonna say okay....because there is no getting you to understand what is being said.  We weren't implying that the theory was facts.....we were saying that there are FACTS thaat lead us to believe that indoctrination is the answer to the plot holes......Indoctrination being the entire theory of this thread.  The in game CODEX gives perfectly clear examples of indoctrination SYMPTOMS that are PREVALENT throughout the entire game, focused on Shep.  Those are the FACTS that are being talked about, and thats where you got lost in translation.
1) ghostly figures in the dreams
2) unexplained noises
3) the fact that prior to this game release, the devs spoke alot of how indoctrination would play a huge role in ME3 (as mentioned above by someone eles)
4) the catalyst and how the little boy seemed a litle less real than convinceable
5) certain happenings during the citidel trek
6) discrepencies in landscape and terrain (on par with how dreams would be)
7)mix matched paragon/renegade choices
8) and more game lore than I am willing to type out.
^ these FACTS....which are indeed facts....are what we are using to uplift our theory of indoctrination.  That, on top of the fact that BW has yet to say yes or no to the firestorm of questions on whether or not its true, is what makes us BELIEVE that this COULD (not is) be what is going on.

If this does not tie up the onslaught of fact vs faked that you are trying to press on our opinions, then God help us all.  I'm sure everyone is tired of seeing my walls of text.

Modifié par XIXmaximus, 13 mars 2012 - 02:38 .

[Rawgrim]

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

XIXmaximus wrote...

Answer me this simple question canidate.....are we wrong for hoping for this until we find out whether or not it rings true?  Are we wrong for disecting the story, putting effort into trying to tie the ends together until we find out for a fact that it is untrue or true?  Are we wrong for doing that?  Have we offended you in some way for you to keep pressing the matter of Wrong and right?

Are you wrong for those things?

No.

Were you wrong earlier for claiming this theory as fact and dismissing what the game itself said?

Yes.


I have no problem with you imagining what you want. Just don't claim it as fact and then have a go at me when I point out that its not.

I personally pretend that the Normandy crash doesn't happen. I can't prove this, and it contradicts the game, but I will pretend this is the case nonetheless. If you want to believe that Shepard is indoctrinated then by all means go for it - its your Shepard's story. Just don't claim it as fact and then get angry when someone proves that this isn't the case.

You misunderstood me bud, noone, me included.....were dismissing what the game said.........YOU are the one who came at US quoting what the game said, but left out a key part THAT THE GAME SAID, which drives us to believe this theory possible....."now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay and DLC"  You left this out, coveniently enough to support your point.  that LAST part of the end game message, is what leads us to feel that what we are theorizing can be true.  Yes, it says that Shep ended the reaper threat....it does not say that shep DESTROYED the reapers.  Shep "ended" the reaper threat on ME2, but it was not yet finished. <<<< THIS stuff, is the reason we still have hope that our theory could still ring true, and we will not know for sure until the given time has come for BW to let us know.  People are spouting this all over twitter, and other places.......but BW has YET to dismiss it.  You came to this thread, tthrowing right and wrong at nearly every person who was trying to actively suppor the idea.....that is where this whole snowball started.  You simply misunderstood.

I posted the entire image. I never left any of it out.

The message implies that post-end DLC is possible. I never denied this.

The message says that Shepard ends the Reaper threat, regardless of your ending choice. This is impossible if the indoctrination theory is true - the theory requires that two of the endings lead to Shepard failing and thus not ending the Reaper threat, and between a fan theory and what the writers put in the game, its clear which one is right.

Let us use an example. Lets say you picked control as your ending choice. You're saying that this is a lie, and that actually Shepard became indoctrinated and fell under the Reapers' control. However, the game then tells you that the Reaper threat was ended by Shepard. These two events cannot be true at the same time, and it is logical that what the game says is vastly more likely to be true than a fan theory, regardless of how interesting the theory may be.

We're just going to keep going in circles, and I need some sleep, so I'll leave on this note:

I have no problem with you believing this theory. I have no problem with you wanting it to be true. I have no problem with people discussing it. I just found it annoying that you were claiming that there was actual evidence for it and then got annoyed when I provided evidence that countered this.

You know what, im just gonna say okay....because there is no getting you to understand what is being said.  We weren't implying that the theory was facts.....we were saying that there are FACTS thaat lead us to believe that indoctrination is the answer to the plot holes......Indoctrination being the entire theory of this thread.  The in game CODEX gives perfectly clear examples of indoctrination SYMPTOMS that are PREVALENT throughout the entire game, 
1) ghostly figures in the dreams
2) unexplained noises
3) the fact that prior to this game release, the devs spoke alot of how indoctrination would play a huge role in ME3 (as mentioned above by someone eles)
4) the catalyst and how the little boy seemed a litle less real than convinceable
5) certain happenings during the citidel trek
6) discrepencies in landscape and terrain (on par with how dreams would be)
7)mix matched paragon/renegade choices
8) and more game lore than I am willing to type out.
^ these FACTS....which are indeed facts....are what we are using to uplift our theory of indoctrination.  That, on top of the fact that BW has yet to say yes or no to the firestorm of questions on whether or not its true, is what makes us BELIEVE that this COULD (not is) be what is going on.

If this does not tie up the onslaught of fact vs faked that you are trying to press on our opinions, then God help us all.  I'm sure everyone is tired of seeing my walls of text.

focused on Shep.  Those are the FACTS that are being talked about, and thats where you got lost in translation.

I have something to add to that. Benezzia mentions whispers and such things when she tells Shep how the indoctrination started. Now in the dreams Shep has, there is plenty of whispering going on. Truth be told the whisperings seems to increase per dream too.

[Nyx2k]

I just got into thinking. If shepard dreamed everything, and he supposedly wakes up again (seen in the 14 seconds cutscene) could a possible ending dlc show what happens afterwards? Or could that even be the story of the mass effect film? I know there is a anime in production, regarding James Vega, but there has been a movie announced.

Even though I really liked the endings (only the Normandy thing was unnecessary), it still feeled rushed. Mass Effect 3 still feels uncomplete at the end, like there is a new Game comming. But since they said ME3 was the final act, that still doesnt mean there will be no dlcs or addons.

Only time will tell and I hope it will be good.