524 réponses à ce sujet

[KaeserZen]

Rawgrim wrote...

I have something to add to that. Benezzia mentions whispers and such things when she tells Shep how the indoctrination started. Now in the dreams Shep has, there is plenty of whispering going on. Truth be told the whisperings seems to increase per dream too.

I thought however that you needed to be in proximity with Reaper indoctrination technology to be affected ? (aka Saren and Benezia in Sovereign, the team studying Object Rho, TIM with all the Reaper technology and his semi-huskification).

Although it does appear that once indoctrinated, you don't need anymore presence. Perhaps Shepard has passed that point in the 2-day coma on the Project station ?

[XIXmaximus]

DJ_D wrote...

I just got into thinking. If shepard dreamed everything, and he supposedly wakes up again (seen in the 14 seconds cutscene) could a possible ending dlc show what happens afterwards? Or could that even be the story of the mass effect film? I know there is a anime in production, regarding James Vega, but there has been a movie announced.

Even though I really liked the endings (only the Normandy thing was unnecessary), it still feeled rushed. Mass Effect 3 still feels uncomplete at the end, like there is a new Game comming. But since they said ME3 was the final act, that still doesnt mean there will be no dlcs or addons.

Only time will tell and I hope it will be good.

agreed

[Rawgrim]

KaeserZen wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I have something to add to that. Benezzia mentions whispers and such things when she tells Shep how the indoctrination started. Now in the dreams Shep has, there is plenty of whispering going on. Truth be told the whisperings seems to increase per dream too.

I thought however that you needed to be in proximity with Reaper indoctrination technology to be affected ? (aka Saren and Benezia in Sovereign, the team studying Object Rho, TIM with all the Reaper technology and his semi-huskification).

Although it does appear that once indoctrinated, you don't need anymore presence. Perhaps Shepard has passed that point in the 2-day coma on the Project station ?

He is i reaper proximity from minute 1 on Earth in the beginning. There are reapers all over the place. Thats when he starts seeing that little boy too. Also, i think some of Sheps "upgrades" from Cerberus had reaper technology in them. Might not be a good thing.

[KaeserZen]

Rawgrim wrote...


He is i reaper proximity from minute 1 on Earth in the beginning. There are reapers all over the place. Thats when he starts seeing that little boy too. Also, i think some of Sheps "upgrades" from Cerberus had reaper technology in them. Might not be a good thing.

Fair enough, the Cerberus implants may be a catalyst (no pun intended) to the reaper indoctrination.

I don't want to get my hopes high on the Indoctrination theory, even though it appeases my cartesian spirit, because I don't want to be disappointed by it not being offcialized by BioWare

If it does, however, I hope they give us a better motive for Reaper's reaping... I really don't buy the organic vs. synthetic the way it has been presented. I'm not necessarily looking for an alternative explanation, just a more logical one.

[Nyx2k]

.

A differnt theroy I have is that Shepard was infact indoctrinated, remember he has synthetics inside, and who can say for sure they arent reaper tech? Now imagine this: Shepard fought the Reapers inside his head. He had a mind connection with them just like Saren had. But Shepard was strong enough to choose his fate. The Crucible simply strenghtened his connection with the reapers. Regarding the choice he made, he either convinced the Reapers that their ways are false and they should accept biological life as it is, or convincing them that every cycle will produce stronger races and one day the reapers will be completely whiped out, resulting in reaper mass suicide or self destruct. The Neutral ending coul lead to something like the peace between the reapers and biological life with the reapers staying and rebiulding.

I dont know if someone noticed, but the child in the stargaze cutscene calls him "the" Shephard and not just Shepard like we would.

There are lots of possibilities and and all we can do is just imagine what really happens, only the Person who wrote the story knows for sure. And I know how difficult it is to come up with a great ending, the beginning is hard, once its going, its easy, but the ending is always almost impossible to write without screwing up the story.

Modifié par DJ_D, 13 mars 2012 - 03:16 .

[starstreak13]

While this would be a cool ending it would mean the reapers won. Which leave prospects for Mass Effect 4 what? the next cycle perhaps. none of the ending make much sense but i just hope BioWare runs with the 5000+ ending where shepard lives. Shep cashed into a planet from space once maybe cerberus put enough synthetics in him that i could happen again. I wish there'd been a Blurb about each of the characters but your theory would explain the lack of one.

[Kentuckan]

I don't just don't understand how Shep can become fully indoctrinated in a matter of minutes. I mean the game itself fully lists all the side effects and warning signs of oncoming indoctrination and yet none of the symptoms ever show up on Shepard.

((Funny story, when I first read that the first sign of indoctrination was a ringing in the ears, I thought Vega was being indoctrinated for a few minutes due to his comment about hearing buzzing in the hangar.))

[UnbornLeviathan]

 Trending on Reddit Page 2 =D

[GOODKyle]

UnbornLeviathan wrote...

 Trending on Reddit Page 2 =D

This thread is on Reddit? o.O

[Inker19]

Kentuckan wrote...

I don't just don't understand how Shep can become fully indoctrinated in a matter of minutes. I mean the game itself fully lists all the side effects and warning signs of oncoming indoctrination and yet none of the symptoms ever show up on Shepard.

He was near the Reaper artifact that indoctrinated Dr. Kenson for 2 straight days.

[neptune2440]

Well done indeed, GOODKyle!

There were three other things I noticed in the dialogue in my last play through of the ending.

1) At the beginning of the conversation with the God Child/Catalyst, he refers to himself as a separate entity from the reapers. However, later in the conversation, he begins to use terms such "us" and "we" leaving me to believe that at the very least he is a reaper projection.

2) During the destroy ending option when shep is shooting out the tubes, he can suddenly walk properly again once it's breached. His own determination, resolve and will have won out. Now, I realize this could be attributed to an adrenaline rush, but on to #3

3) In both the Control and Synthesis ending options, it's clearly shown that shep's skin peels away. This reveals that underneath it all, he has become indoctrinated. It shows that shep's body is now made of reaper tech.

[TremulantOne]

So, whilst I think the way they've gone about this is very wrong, id like to throw some more support/theories into this thread.

There are a ton of things pointing to this all being in Sheps head. After he goes up the beam and contacts Anderson listen to how they talk.

Transcript:

Shep: Anderson, you up here too?
Anderson: I followed you up but we didn't come out the same place. At least I don't think we did.
What's your surrounding look like? You okay
*Dialogue choice*
Shep: It's dark, there's human remains scattered.
Anderson: Sounds Familiar. I'm in a dark hallway, reminds me of your description of the collector base.
Shep: Makes sense.
Anderson: You think they're making a reaper in here?
Shep: Sure. They round them up on earth, then send the people up here to be processed.

Anderson is saying what Shep is thinking. He keeps asking him questions he agrees to. Things look like Shep sees them much like how inside the Geth mission the things he saw appeared as he remembered them.

The thing that struck me the most was when the "Catalyst" started talking. Many voices in ME are blended, sort of like how the Turians talk. However, I cranked up my volume and it seems to be two distinct voices. One is obviously that of the kid encountered in the opening mission. Now, listen carefully, the other voice sounds exactly like Sheperds.

If the second underlying voice is actually Sheps then the whole "knocked the f out post Harbinger attack" makes perfect sense. Everything is in his head, the images, the voices, randomly having a gun. (Much like in the Geth mission when Legion points out that the tool hell use to dismantle reaper data will take the form of a gun because that's what he's most used to)

Also, note that the perfect red ending where Shep wakes up/breathes comes after what he imagines happens to his cohorts in every ending. Shep imagines that no matter what happens his friends all make it to an off world and land safely.

The stargazer dude is creepy as hell though and has a terrible voice actor for the man and the child. Also, calling ones grandson "my sweet" is pedo mode.

[STAR_KILLER423]

@ Candidate
Have you ever played the Metal Gear series? Great series. Anyway they break the hell out of the forth wall in those games. In Metal Gear Solid 3 there is a part where you fight "The Sorrow" All you do is walk down this river with him in front of you shooting at you. When you reach the end....you die. The game over screen pops up and you obviously are going to hit continue. You start back at the beginning of the river, and do it all over again, and again you die. They don't tell you what to do. But you have to go into your inventory and use an item inorder to pass that part. They specifically tell you that you are dead and you restart thinking you screwed up.

Not the best example but it is one where the developers tell you something that isn't true

[achtung_s_funtapaz]

I'm really liking what I hear/see in this video. You may be onto something.

[Koshea69]

Interesting idea, so perhaps...Bioware already gave us the endings we really were intended to see, but the ultimate choice won't be revealed to us until a later date just to see what people do...

Perhaps this isn't just a release of a game, perhaps it's a multimedia event where we are part of the experiment to see how people ended their game...

[spartain999]

GOODKyle wrote...

spartain999 wrote...

sorry this doesn't make complete sense its a good vid and has some good points but i have one reason why it doesn't make sense.

if this entire thing is you indoctrinated what is the point of taking over the reapers. it serves no purpose for the reaper to let them do that. also u said that that he never left earth when you chose to destroy the reapers. how do u destroy them if you never went to the Citadel also if you never went to the Citadel how do you achieve the control or synthesis. lastly Indoctrination would be him just dreaming dieing on the ground he would have to have actually had to go to the citadel and done something for the Indoctrination theory to make sense.

sorry its a good idea but there are way to many holes in your theory im still trying to figure out the true ideas of this ending currently i believe it to be that because of all the destruction of this cycles civilization and the destruction of the mass relays that the stargazer from after the credit are the next generation of galactic civilization who believe Shepard to be there god( as the kid calls him the Shepard and we refer to god as the shepard as well) because he freed them from reaper and the synthesis or whatever you chose to do. the reference to more stories of the shepard can be dlc or prequels to the game. he also the star gazer says that the story happen a long long time go and that some of the information has been lost/change /misinterpreted.

ugh x.x I'm getting sick of repeating myself. All of this is a test for indoctrination. So if you choose control you are indoctrinated. You choose destroy you break free from the indoctrination and wake back up on earth where the indoctrination began. You never do anything to the reapers themselves. 

ok so u believe that the  whole ending is u asleep in a ditch and that if you choose the control or the synthesis you just die for no reason and if you choose to destroy them u dont actualy u just wake up. and that the entire mass effect relay  destroyed, normandy crash and all the other crap is something your mind come up with to make you feel better.
then why would shepard want the realys destroyed and why would you be seeing this all once your dead you cant just ignore it you just made a major whole in your theory.

[spartain999]

Malanek999 wrote...

spartain999 wrote...
if this entire thing is you indoctrinated what is the point of taking over the reapers. it serves no purpose for the reaper to let them do that. 

 
You don't. They just let you think you do.

spartain999 wrote... 
also u said that that he never left earth when you chose to destroy the reapers. how do u destroy them if you never went to the Citadel also if you never went to the Citadel how do you achieve the control or synthesis. lastly Indoctrination would be him just dreaming dieing on the ground he would have to have actually had to go to the citadel and done something for the Indoctrination theory to make sense.

 

My belief is tha, if this theory is indeed correct, is that Shepard does go to the Citadel. His perception of what is happening is not accurate because it is screwed up while trying to resist indoctrination.

One argument against the theory is that Paul Grayson, in the third book, gets indoctrinated via implants, he is aware of what is happening the entire time but just like a passenger. But at the same time we know indoctrination works differently. It was much more subtle for Saren, Kenson and TIM, which is how I see it for Shep. 

yer but what is the point in projecting all this crap to get shepard to kill himself why not just laser his ass. if the reapers are going to indoctrinate someone it is for a purpose not just to kill him.

also if he goes to the citadel which i also believe he does how does he end up back on earth.
i believe it might be posible that the cruccible might of had parts of stone though unlikly it would make more sense

[Infinity Shark]

Fascinating.

[kyban]

There's a part of me that really wants this to be true. I was starting to accept the ending for what it was... but maybe I was just indoctrinated.

[ref]

Oh how I hope this is true, I really, really do. Great video, it would make sense and I hope if this isn't true BioWare looks at this and makes it to be.

[GOODKyle]

[quote]spartain999 wrote...


ugh x.x I'm getting sick of repeating myself. All of this is a test for indoctrination. So if you choose control you are indoctrinated. You choose destroy you break free from the indoctrination and wake back up on earth where the indoctrination began. You never do anything to the reapers themselves. 

[/quote]

ok so u believe that the  whole ending is u asleep in a ditch and that if you choose the control or the synthesis you just die for no reason and if you choose to destroy them u dont actualy u just wake up. and that the entire mass effect relay  destroyed, normandy crash and all the other crap is something your mind come up with to make you feel better.
then why would shepard want the realys destroyed and why would you be seeing this all once your dead you cant just ignore it you just made a major whole in your theory.

[/quote]

Read what I made bold, italicize, and underlined please x.x

[GOODKyle]

I think the people who are having trouble understanding this are believing what that kid/catalyst says. He is the controller of the reapers (the main bad guy of the entire series) and you just simply believe everything he says?

[Raanz]

Watched your video and you make a compelling argument.

- During the control panel scene with Anderson and TIM, TIM basically explains the choice you are unknowingly going to have a chance to make later. He asks you: "Who will you listen to Shepard? An old soldier stuck in his ways, only able to see the world down the barrel of a gun?" This statement along with the "color" choices of the 3 different paths along with the corresponding characters for each backs up your reasoning for me.

- Shepard could have easily been put back together using Reaper tech as Cerberus had it at the time. In the novel Retribution, they turned Grayson using it.

- I like what someone else mentioned as well. The fact that Liara's mom talked about the whispers or voices, and during Shepard's dream sequences, there are a few to start, then they grow in number (represented by the little shadowy spectre type thingies)

As far as the endings go...a possible solution to the issue of the relays blowing up regardless of the path you chose could be:

- in the indoctrination choices, the Reapers show this as a reality in order to complete the indoctrination, totally winning Shepard over or converting him.

- in the destroy choice, maybe that is what actually happened...remember that everyone said during the game that they had no idea what the Crucible would do. Maybe what happens is when the Crucible actually couples with the Citadel, it releases one MASS (heh) electromagnetic pulse that disables all synthetic/mechanical life/machines, thus destroying the Citadel, ships, relays, etc.
Maybe that is the real ending even if Shepard chose the other options = being indoctrinated, but since he was, he sees what the Reapers make him see.

Hey, it can be as simple as those are the endings, and we all think too much into it, but it sure is fun to think about and discuss.

Kudos my man, nice food for thought.

Modifié par Raanz, 13 mars 2012 - 06:03 .

[tersidre]

sorry man this doesnt really PROVE anything. The only thing that is going to prove anything is a few months to a few years from now when the main writers start really talking about the design goals for this game and are completely open about why certain choices were made. (this always happens with big story based games, for those that dont remember how many people were pissed off at the FF7 ending or even the silent hill endings the writers after they are working on new projects will come forward and talk about why decisions were made and most of the time it makes complete sense.

Cant wait to hear the story behind these endings from a design point of view


lets put it this way, even if these endings are never fixed people WILL be talking about them for years to come. Like em or not they DID make an impact and sometimes thats the best thing you can hope for with a story.

Modifié par tersidre, 13 mars 2012 - 06:01 .

[GOODKyle]

kyban wrote...

There's a part of me that really wants this to be true. I was starting to accept the ending for what it was... but maybe I was just indoctrinated.

Or maybe Bioware and EA are indoctrinated?!